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 Watch out---me, myself and I

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Joe_O
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:09 am

This is big and it won't go away, in this and all SW communities trust and respect and reputation is KEY.

However much of a friend I am of wolff's I am shocked and saddened to hear he would do such a thing, regardless of his motives this can't be excused.

I will be even more upset if this backfires but here goes, I am willing to say I am pretty sure that no other figures will come out to have been repainted by Wolff, I think this is a one off but I don't discourage people from checking the authenticity of any figure bought from Wolff, you should and do it soon, if you believe this to be the case then pursue it, I do have a lot of faith in this being a one time only kind of thing but IF Wolff has lied to me about this I won't be happy... (so honesty is the best policy Wolff)

Unfortunately it's all too easy to fall into the temptation to make money in this hobby and many of us have and will be tempted, whether its not disclosing a reseal, an ink touch up, buying low from a friend who you know gave you a deal to immediately take advantage of their friendship and flip the item for a nice profit, there are loads of ways to do a disservice to a collector and your name to get a few more bucks.

The sad thing is it all happens to make more money for more toys in most cases, its a sad part of this hobby and many good people get blinded by grail items or items that they can't afford by their usual means but we all have a choice at the end of the day, if you choose to make that easy money and go against your common sense you have betrayed yourself and your fellow collectors.

Wolff I think while this runs its course you should stay and face the music, although you must recognise TIG as a forum has a certain stance on this kind of thing and although I don't want it to happen I think the possibility of you being banned or leaving of your own accord is in the best interest of the site and its reputation.

Sorry my friend and I wish you all the best.

(Also to Chris, - I am glad you got your money back, sorry it happened to you but I also feel its better in a way, as Geordie said it could have been someone new, or a come and go buyer who wasn't made aware, with your items going to AFA and to Tom this would have been caught no doubt)

Another sad day in collecting Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:20 am

although he did wrong Wolff could have gone into hiding, and the fact that he's refunded Chris and is facing the music is commendable. I can't think of many people that have pulled a scam and then stuck around
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:24 am

I thought about it 8 hours now! My decission is done!

I am too ashamed! I rather quit before I get banned or sit here days and wait for what happens next! My reputation is ruined and Im sorry for the people I dissapointed! Im also sorry for chris that I cheated on him!

Its not fair to treat me different from other people who tried similar things! I wasnt even at work today because I cannot make a single move! Sitting here and waiting...seeing everything running through my hands...its the most horrible think you can imagine!

Be well lads!

I truely had a great time here!

(I dont want to leave my garbage here! Thats why I will clean up up bit!)

I will log out for ever in a few minutes! Bye...and Im sorry again!

Wolff
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:29 am

spoons wrote:
although he did wrong Wolff could have gone into hiding, and the fact that he's refunded Chris and is facing the music is commendable. I can't think of many people that have pulled a scam and then stuck around

or perhaps not....

Stick around Wolff, your knowledge of variants is unparalleled - you just won't be able to sell anything for a while Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:30 am

Wolff - I am sure you and Jay can work on a "ban" that is fair for everyone.

You need to be around in the coming days while this calms down, its the only way to repair some bridges mate.

We need assurance from you and for you to continue to interact here regardless of the outcome, you owe it to the forums mate.


Do me this favour and don't disappear ok .
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:44 am

You know Wollf, from the times we had an conversation, i thought you where a great guy.
Also, we are all on here because we have the same hobby and want to share info to help each other, not to f*ck each other like any other scam artist would do.

You know i am really disappointed, that it is you that just tried to do this...

Anyway, i dont think you need to leave the forum now this is resolved.

Best, Dennis.


Last edited by Stargeezer on Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:49 am

Wollf,

you had a taste of the dark side of the force.
but you came clean,did the right thing to do and faced the music.
you suck arround and didnt dissapear like a real scammer would do.

again this is new knowlidge to you in youre allready great wisdom concerning collecting.
use it to prevent this from happening again!

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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:06 am

Wolff,

I think you should give this a little time to see what happens. Your contributions have been huge and you have a lot of friends that support you in the community. If this is truly an isolated incident, then I also think you deserve a 2nd chance. Everyone makes mistakes and you did stick around to deal with a very difficult situation. Of course, only time will tell how truly sincere you are in all of this, but I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt - for now.

Like I said last night, I will be in touch once I have some time to put everything into a proper perspective. I suggest you take this time to reflect and possibly immerse yourself in the variant work that we all have come to rely on and appreciate so much.

Thanks,
-chris
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:15 am

I know I dont post here and for that I can only appologise, I help run SWCC and that takes up all of my time.

Anyway there has been a debate regarding this matter on SWCC today with a lot of piss taking and a lot of things taken out of context.

But what does stand is unfortunatley Wolff is a scammer Sad once is more than enough. I really wasnt going to post here and after reading this i'm sure a lot of you will wish I hadn't bothered.

How can everything be alright with Wolff after what has happened?

How can any of you even consider the notion that he will not be banned for his act of dishonesty?

Why has this still not been posted on RS? I am very tempted to post a link there myself.

I have a lot of respect for a lot of the members here even if we dont know each other personally, but the only post here that has made any real sense was Geordie's to be honest most of the others have made me feel sick. Sick for the poster who cant see beyond the end of their nose and sick for every member of this great hobby who has been scammed on here or anywhere else.

I am in shock that this has happened, I was reading Tom Derby's post on RS the other week and agreed with all the hard work you have done here for the hobby.

This makes this whole situation such a bitter pill to swallow but swallow it you must.


Last edited by obiwankenobinil on Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:22 am

obiwankenobinil wrote:
I know I dont post here and for that I can only appologise, I help run SWCC and that takes up all of my time.

Anyway there has been today a debate regarding this matter on SWCC today with a lot of piss taking and a lot of things taken out of context.

But what does stand is unfortunatley Wolff is a scammer Sad once is more than enough. I really wasnt going to post here and after reading this i'm sure a lot of you will wish I hadn't bothered.

How can everything be alright with Wolff after what has happened?

How can any of you even consider the notion that he will not be banned for his act of dishonesty?

Why has this still not been posted on RS? I am very tempted to post a link there myself.

I have a lot of respect for a lot of the members here even if we dont know each other personally, but the only post here that has made any real sense was Geordie's to be honest most of the others have made me feel sick. Sick for the poster who cant see beyond the end of their nose and sick for every member of this great hobby who has been scammed on here or anywhere else.

I am in shock that this has happened, I was reading Tom Derby's post on RS the other week and agreed with all the hard work you have done here for the hobby.

This makes this whole situation such a bitter pill to swallow but swallow it you must.


Since it is literally unfolding in real time you might not be aware of a few things (and I say that with no pretense)

1) Wolff is banned until further notice. We are asking anyone who has dealt with Wolff to give us information. If it is a single incident and a solitary lapse in judgement we may unban him. But for now he's out.

2) RS was made aware and I have post in the watch out section. If you hope over there you'll see it. I had to reformat the image extensions (img vs. image) but it's there now.

3)I read the comments on the other sites and agree with you 100% its a pissing match

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obiwankenobinil
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:23 am

OK so it has now been posted on RS, thanks for getting it out there.
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:26 am

It's been posted on RS, it was always going to be posted over on RS , give the forum a chance to do the right thing, in the space of a few days this has all gone very fast and everyone loves to fucking chip in and make a cunty post but the right thing was done, in fact this was probably quicker than most forums would deal with it.

I hate all this bashing someone does of TIG on your forum, you guys still don't realise he has an issue with certain people here and he uses the forum as an easy way to attack them, when you wake up to that you will be better off.

Go read the post on RS, that was the forum where he was going to be scrutinized the most and its there for all to see, even if it had taken a week more with more information coming out it would have gone up. People just love to bitch.

If people have issue with Wolff that is one thing - But do NOT take issue with a forum that is doing its best to work with the other communities, this information would have been shared with them all, do you think the hardcopy saga was blown up the first day someone saw a red flag? NO- the people that spearhead the investigation to break this news need time to get the correct information.

I read some of your posts over on SWCC and you were less than diplomatic there yet here your post isn't quite as hot headed..

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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:29 am

obiwankenobinil wrote:
OK so it has now been posted on RS, thanks for getting it out there.

I do want to say that everyone who is willing to forgive shouldnt be villified. It they choose to forgive, then that's their choice. My personal feeling (as Darthberizing not a mod) is that if it was isolated then I'll personally forgive him. If there is literally one more case, then I won't. He contends a "moment" of weakness. We need to see if that proves true.



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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:33 am

I am with you on that John, I am not defending him for shit and hes my mate but if its one incident and hes refunded he will get his second chance with more than just his friends, if its more than that (and only time will tell) then its curtains for him and everyone who supports him will turn their back.

Let's just move on with the facts and let the people that are working behind the scenes to get the information together do their job and make it all known in due time, no pissing matches , no speculation and no cross forum jabs.
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:35 am

Cheers for the response John (it is John isnt it?), I'm not offended at all buddy Smile

Scamming is probably the worse thing that can happen in any hobby and as you can imagine there are a lot of very strong feelings regarding this. As I said before it has been debated heavily on SWCC and it did start to turn into a pissing match as you put it, lol.

Even if, we over at the SWCC dont take many things very seriously and I do wholeheartedly appologise for the lack of decorum on the forum! We do take scamming seriously.

We have all been new collectors at some point and have all paid too much for something or been scammed in 1 way or another. I have been collecting for years and I would have happily bought something from Wolff and not known that it was fake until I sold it and then maybe the buyer would have trusted me and not known either.

This debate is discussed regulary elsewhere regarding the flood of recards coming onto the market and the posibility of those being sold on as originals in the future by a dishonest collector or even a newbie who knows no better.

The point I'm trying to make is if you do read the post over on SWCC dont be offended we dont sensor anything over there but it doesnt mean we dont have a high moral standpoint on the situation in hand
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:42 am

Thanks Joe Smile

I can post how I like on my forum and of course I post differently here!

Yes there were some comments that where close to the bone on SWCC but come on guys we take the piss out of everybody on there, even each other you might be amazed to know Wink I dont have to wake up to Josho at all, he is a valued member of our (small) community and I thought some of the posts made were funny but nothing more. Josh is Josh and will never change, the thing with us Joe is that we accept him for who he is, nothing more nothing less.

In all fairness I can see why you get up Josho's nose but we'll leave that there, if you want to berate me anymore please do it via PM.
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:52 am

No probs here, we all read what we read its black and white.

As long as people realise the issue at hand is Wolff and this figure (or possible figures..) and not how TIG has handled it then thats fine, I think Chris (xiskool) would attest to how nicely this was handled by TIG in his interest and maybe on another forum it would have been a different story so lets not start "pissing" on other forums and how they handle situations unless its your own forum and your own situation.



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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:18 pm

wow I didn't realise that there was so much agro between TIG and SWCC - it makes the SWF look like an Oasis of calm Laughing Wink


For what its worth Joe, based on the TIG zero tolerance on scammers you had to ban Wolff but I certainly wouldn't put him in that same category as someone like Billy Boy Rogers (unless a bunch of these retouched figs turn up.....)
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:22 pm

I don't have much time today to respond properly but I do want to add that the team here handled things magnificently. I can't imagine anyone dealing with things any better than was dealt with here. These guys really have their act together and I don't think anything else needs to be said regarding how TIG handled the situation.

As for what happens now, that is not up to any one individual, it is up to the community as a whole. I am willing to take a "wait and see" attitude until everyone that has purchased from Wolff can inspect their figures. I still do not have the figure in hand so I do not know how good he is at the touch-up, but looking at the comparison photos I think he may be very talented. Luckily, it is a somewhat small community of active variant collectors on the forums, but I have no idea how active Wolff is or has been on eBay.

I also want to add that nothing was ever sent to AFA, the AFA story was made up by Wolff initially. I simply called Tom to let him know what happened as soon as I learned so he could convey that info to AFA.

John - Thanks for posting the watch out thread over on RS. I was giving Wolff some time to do it himself (since he is not actively selling) but unfortunately that never happened.
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:24 pm

I'm not a mod here, or a developer, I am just a member now. I welcomed a ban for wolff and I told him that would happen in private, I still think until this is completely sorted its silly to get rid of him instantly as he can use this forum as a means to continue to communicate to people, even if he only comes on once a week, that might be of help to more people and future issues if there are any.

If the issue is over, it was one figure and Chris is happy with how things have worked out then it is over and Wolff is banned.

Tig can work on supplying any information they need to in order to make sure people don't trade with Wolff in the future and if they do, do so with this information at hand.

Edited for clarity.


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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:25 pm

spoons wrote:
wow I didn't realise that there was so much agro between TIG and SWCC - it makes the SWF look like an Oasis of calm Laughing Wink


For what its worth Joe, based on the TIG zero tolerance on scammers you had to ban Wolff but I certainly wouldn't put him in that same category as someone like Billy Boy Rogers (unless a bunch of these retouched figs turn up.....)

Just to clarify, there isn't hostility between the forums. Its not like we'd have a big fight like the news teams in the movie Anchorman. LOL

There are a few personality conflicts between a few folks. They do run deep but they are between people, not forums.

Your point about the ban is also spot on. We need to look down the rabbit hole and see whats there. I dont think we can act until we get a better picture on the scope.

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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:30 pm

Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad


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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:49 pm

Well I have made some deals with wolff and talk to him. I think he is a honest guy or thought so. (you haven't treated me bad so I have no problems with you my friend.)

The tush ups are a realy crappy think to do. I would be very sad to get a tush up figure even if it was a 1 pound figure.

But how about H2O2 (hydrogenperoxid) whitning of Stormies, leia organas and so on In my book it's as bad as the tuch ups.

Cheers Michael
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:10 pm

:sadwalk:



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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:16 pm

Blimey, im away from the forums for a day and the shit hits the fan.

Wolff, congrats man you have gone from hero to zero overnight.
This was a really low scam to pull, it would be bad enough to scam someone on ebay but a fellow forum member makes it even worse.

I hope this was an isolated incident, altho from past experiences it rarely is.
I don't think i have ever purchased anything from you, but if i had i would be going over it asap.

Some of the guys on here are obviously your friends, so i can fully understand why they are willing to forgive you.
I have been there with Billyboy, i defended that guy as i honestly thought he was a friend....well i won't be making that mistake again.


I've not read SWCC, there were 92 posts to read so i will catch up over the weekend.

Im a member of both forums, and love them both for different reasons. Its a shame everyone cannot get along but thats life.
People have the right to express their views, right or wrong so you have to respect that.

Im glad Wolff has repaid Chris, but would he of come forward and admitted his crime if he hadn't of been caught out? i highly doubt it.

You have been caught red handed Wolff, fair play for being a man and admiting to it (even if you were pushed) i respect that it must of been a hard thing to do.
If it is proved this was your first scam then i guess you will be allowed back on here, but i doubt i will be so forgiving as some.



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