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 Watch out---me, myself and I

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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:20 pm

I will keep it short, most things have already been said today, just my personal view.

First of all, I consider Wolff a very respectful member of the community, a specialist with a vast expertise, always willing to help you further.

To me this whole thing is therefore quite shocking. It is depressing to go through the Wolff gate threads on different forums. The bashing between members of different forums is not helping much either.

To me it is hard to belief that the guy who has devoted so much time and energy to the SW hobby, the guy who has almost finished writing a 'PhD thesis' on figure variations, that this guy can be a professional scammer at the same time. To me that is a strange combination, it just don't fit. Therefore for the moment I tend to belief this was one hell of a mistake, but also the one and only mistake. The coming days will tell us whether there were more cases of fraud in the past. If so I would be totally disappointed for obvious reasons..

I can only speculate why Wolff made this (presumed!) single misstep towards the Dark Side of SW trading, so I am not going to. In this thread (mind the title!) he is displaying the many DBRS in his collection. It was funny to read but in retroperspective might have been an early warning from his subconsciousness things were getting out of control? I sincerely hope he takes his time now to think things over and is strong enough to step back to the right trail. I am afraid this won't be as quick as the victims got their refunds. And I hope there will be no more old frauds appearing the coming days.







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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:54 pm

Well, i think i would feel safe on here and the people who discovered this scam need a pat on the back.

Im not going to throw in a wild comment but to pull that scam on a forum is disgracefull, ebay would have been a shocker but on here!!

Not only has he tarnished his name but this will echo around and get people thinking is it worth trading when a respected member and contributer can scam fellow members?

you need to take a long hard look at yourself wollf, what were you thinking.... Rolling Eyes

Also you must have methodically thought this through..WHERE THE HELL DID YOU GET TIME TO MATCH THE PAINT EXACTLY!!

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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:19 pm

just to add something....
you must be a very very skilled painter to pull off something like this...
i have my doubts....
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:14 pm

After reading all this, I have to say I'm shocked. Wolff, what happened? I know we had words on RS when you first came on there about a couple figures you asked about that turned out to be fakes. But after we talked in PM's, I put you up there as a collecting friend. With all the talk of hating to be scammed on a few items, you turn around and do it yourself. There has to be a reason for the madness, mate. And not just a "I fucked up" either. I do have to say that I would hate to see you leave for good with all the contributions you've done, but if this is NOT a first time screw up and other items come up as touch ups, then I'd have to agree with the others. I haven't been on RS yet today to see what all was said, but after all the shit hitting the fan with the Scott McWilliams fakes going on, I know it wont be pretty. I just hope that this was a one time incident and I'm glad to see that you did the right thing by refunding Chris his money back, but you will be tarnished as a seller because of it.

And I know that we all say that we are a tight-knit community on here, this just goes to show that its true. All involved in this (Wolff, Chris, mods) did a wonderful job of getting it settled as fast as they did.
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:30 am

I really dont want to throw more gaselin on an allready lit fire. But in the latest purchase thread wolff showed us a Rocketfiring Boba fett he had painted. It just sounds like after all this, that he has been at it and experamenting for longer than this one occasion, and decided it was worth a scam we now know he pulled.

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/vintage-chat-f1/your-latest-vintage-purchases-volume-3-t1437-645.htm

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Subject: Re: Your latest Vintage Purchases! Volume 3 Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:11 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also finally boght the "signapur" J-slot rocket Fett!

I started immediatly with painting it...like I think it should be!

What do you think???
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:54 am

tbh yesterday when I read all this I was so angry I held back posting. Huge shockwaves around the community - some slanging across forums - didn't want to add more fuel. Fair play to some of the lads over at SWCC who have come round to the top work Jay, John and the TIG team are doing to solve this. Scammings bad enough but when it's one of your own - and one held in such high esteem! Chris - I'm sorry this happened to you but you're handling it well and with a level head. Wolff - I'd hate to be you atm your reputation is ruined - but time really is a great healer if you can tell your truth and seriously reflect on all this.

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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:56 am

I know this won't change anything now that Wolff had decided to leave once being banned was discussed and then he was banned but I can't help thinking it would have been better to keep his account active on here, the one forum he was checking in on regularly and the place he felt he could speak out (as I know he won't on RS because a few people there don't see eye to eye with him and he doesn't want to argue or make matters worse)

The way the information was circulated on the forums and dealt with was great and well played to the TIG team for doing so, the ban just seems a bit knee jerk in comparison, especially since people were chanting for a ban on "other" forums it could look like TIG was more forced into the ban than it being the best decision.

Perhaps acting as a middle man in situations like this doesn't mean once refunds have been given the issue is over, there is a period of time where people will check their figures and might come to TIG for answers if they can't get hold of Wolff and if you cut your ties with him not even you as the mediator can get through to him, or perhaps the ban issue makes him not want to speak to you outside the forum if you try to reach him. I hope thats not the case and by all accounts Wolff is probably still going to be around somewhere to catch up with, just me thinking aloud.

Although I must say, with the situation at hand, that ban call was always going to be a hard one, I don't envy the mod team on this one, this whole thing is messed up so either way someone wouldn't have been happy with the outcome, its just my personal opinion, considering the issue may or may not be over yet, that banning him this early might not have been the best decision.

On another note, the restoration vs reproduction is an interesting issue, the bleached figure discussion on RS is similar in some aspects, some believed restoring figures to their original state isn't as bad as some make it, others think its completely wrong, ultimately any restoration should be fully disclosed to the buyer when being sold, I think restoration has its place somewhere in this hobby but you can't omit that information when selling especially with these kind of high value figures, I am glad to hear this was a restored piece rather than a full repaint of a common figure, the issue would be quite a lot worse even though the fundamentals are the same, he lied to a buyer.

A final message to Wolff if he reads at some point - you have disappointed a lot of people that held you in high regard, you were looked up to as a source of knowledge and stood against scammers, you did a bad thing here, yet, and this is important - as a community we often give people (especially friends) the chance to do the right thing, a second chance is not something you get often in life, with your job or with family for example but in the hobby if someone fucks up and changes his ways 100% they often get "reinstated" albeit with some level of caution but you aren't instantly cast out. I think you should think long and hard about this hobby and what it means to you because I truly believe your knowledge is second to none and is still valuable for many.

Joe Y posted on RS that many people have done far worse yet still manage to be forgiven and carry on, don't let a moments weakness be the way you are remembered in this hobby, do the right thing and put this behind you, it means the future holds some hard times and some people will always remember but you were doing some seriously hard work for the community before all this and that in my eyes shouldn't end on such a bad note.






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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:58 am

Darth Kaze wrote:
I really dont want to throw more gaselin on an allready lit fire. But in the latest purchase thread wolff showed us a Rocketfiring Boba fett he had painted. It just sounds like after all this, that he has been at it and experamenting for longer than this one occasion, and decided it was worth a scam we now know he pulled.

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/vintage-chat-f1/your-latest-vintage-purchases-volume-3-t1437-645.htm

Quote :
Subject: Re: Your latest Vintage Purchases! Volume 3 Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:11 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also finally boght the "signapur" J-slot rocket Fett!

I started immediatly with painting it...like I think it should be!

What do you think???

I thought about that one to immidiatly, now i even wonder about his tri-logo fett variations if he did not paint the knee/dart combiniations himself.
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:19 am

Joe_O wrote:
I know this won't change anything now that Wolff had decided to leave once being banned was discussed and then he was banned but I can't help thinking it would have been better to keep his account active on here, the one forum he was checking in on regularly and the place he felt he could speak out (as I know he won't on RS because a few people there don't see eye to eye with him and he doesn't want to argue or make matters worse)

The way the information was circulated on the forums and dealt with was great and well played to the TIG team for doing so, the ban just seems a bit knee jerk in comparison, especially since people were chanting for a ban on "other" forums it could look like TIG was more forced into the ban than it being the best decision.

Perhaps acting as a middle man in situations like this doesn't mean once refunds have been given the issue is over, there is a period of time where people will check their figures and might come to TIG for answers if they can't get hold of Wolff and if you cut your ties with him not even you as the mediator can get through to him, or perhaps the ban issue makes him not want to speak to you outside the forum if you try to reach him. I hope thats not the case and by all accounts Wolff is probably still going to be around somewhere to catch up with, just me thinking aloud.

Although I must say, with the situation at hand, that ban call was always going to be a hard one, I don't envy the mod team on this one, this whole thing is messed up so either way someone wouldn't have been happy with the outcome, its just my personal opinion, considering the issue may or may not be over yet, that banning him this early might not have been the best decision.

On another note, the restoration vs reproduction is an interesting issue, the bleached figure discussion on RS is similar in some aspects, some believed restoring figures to their original state isn't as bad as some make it, others think its completely wrong, ultimately any restoration should be fully disclosed to the buyer when being sold, I think restoration has its place somewhere in this hobby but you can't omit that information when selling especially with these kind of high value figures, I am glad to hear this was a restored piece rather than a full repaint of a common figure, the issue would be quite a lot worse even though the fundamentals are the same, he lied to a buyer.

A final message to Wolff if he reads at some point - you have disappointed a lot of people that held you in high regard, you were looked up to as a source of knowledge and stood against scammers, you did a bad thing here, yet, and this is important - as a community we often give people (especially friends) the chance to do the right thing, a second chance is not something you get often in life, with your job or with family for example but in the hobby if someone fucks up and changes his ways 100% they often get "reinstated" albeit with some level of caution but you aren't instantly cast out. I think you should think long and hard about this hobby and what it means to you because I truly believe your knowledge is second to none and is still valuable for many.

Joe Y posted on RS that many people have done far worse yet still manage to be forgiven and carry on, don't let a moments weakness be the way you are remembered in this hobby, do the right thing and put this behind you, it means the future holds some hard times and some people will always remember but you were doing some seriously hard work for the community before all this and that in my eyes shouldn't end on such a bad note.





I just want clarify the ban isnt permenant at this stage Joe.

Firstly I am in email contact with Wolff.

Secondly I and im also working behind the scenes with a number of people to find out if this was truely an isolated incident or if indeed it has happened on more than one occassion. We (i wont name all the parties at this stage) are also looking to develop checks that will enable people to see if a figure has been touched up using Wolffs technique.

A final decision on Wolffs fate wont happen until that is properly investigated and its been fully confirmed if this was a one off event or not.

Jay


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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:25 am

Appreciate you replying Jay, glad to hear he is communicating (as I thought) and I do indeed hope that this turns out to be an isolated incident for everyones sake.

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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:32 pm

I dont normally put myself in a position of being awkward but i dont see why he should get anything from this, if this was me you would have banned me and made it permanent no doubt.

He methodically matched the exact DBRS colours and scammed a fellow member, regardless of his reputation fraud and deception doesnt stand anywhere in my book especially around friends.
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:22 pm

Plantman wrote:
if this was me you would have banned me and made it permanent no doubt.

.


Andy in all fairness we're just looking for any excuse to ban you lol!


No seriously if there is another instance of this happening then the consequence will be more severe. Now just as we can't take Wolffs word that he did it once, we can't assume he did it multiple times. We need to be unbiased and rely on whatever evidence we can find. I think I speak for the mods when I say we don't care who the person is in a situation like this. You, Wolff, me and everyone have the same rules to abide by regardless. Banning for now gives him time to reflect on, instead of defend, his actions. It also gives us time to look into the situation further without influence from the person. At the end of the day it's a judgement call. Personally I think it was the right thing to do for all concerned.

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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:31 pm

LOL you bitch.....

I understand to an extent, but does this mean we all get a chance at scamming and being reviewed? dont get me wrong im not for making a martyr out of people but...

a theif that takes time and is methodical about his theft isnt a one off in my mind, wolffs input was very useful but we are mainly internet friends here (but we have been promised a poker night at stus which im creating a guest list for lol) i dont think reputation should cover up an act of theft.

he didnt admit to it he was caught, then in my eyes you are out, but i guess we all have heated opinions and its best left at that.

i doubt i could post anything else of use so ill drop it now lol
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:38 pm

Plantman wrote:
I dont normally put myself in a position of being awkward but i dont see why he should get anything from this, if this was me you would have banned me and made it permanent no doubt.

He methodically matched the exact DBRS colours and scammed a fellow member, regardless of his reputation fraud and deception doesnt stand anywhere in my book especially around friends.

A question to ask then Andy has he been Banned on RS im pretty sure he hasnt and the moderators over there have all the info. Has Scott in the proto scam been banned over there the answer is no.

Personally (my opinion not a reflection of all the TIG team members) i dont think banning someone straight away isnt very productive if your trying to find out if more instances have happened / trying to recover money for people etc etc it just drives the person under ground as they have nothing to lose anymore im pretty sure thats why Scott isnt banned on RS.

My goal / aim is to ensure that if this happened more than once then we find out about it. Im working with multiple parties including Tom Derby the figure Wolff touched up is now in our hands for testing using various techniques.

If anybody has bought any mint high end figures from Wolff and has concerns dont hesitate to contact me and i will do everything to help. Sadly if its found that others have been scammed then the fact Wolff got banned straight away and has effectively been driven under ground could hamper any attempt to recover money owed.(if of course hes done this before)

Just trying to highlight another point of view guys i like all of you are deeply upset with what Wolff did to Chris.

Weasel on SWF said it best "your dammed if you do dammed if you dont"

Jay

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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:47 pm

LOL, Poker night at Stu's....I like the idea of that.

We've got to get that in the diary mate, and I'll dress up for you Andy aswell me old mucker so you can rub my helmet.

Andy makes a very good point.

I keep seeing references as to investigations as to whether this was an isolated incident or whether it has happened before.
In my eyes, even if it has happended once it is not bloody acceptable.

At the end of the day Wolff tried to rip off and scam fellow members of a forum he uses a lot and he tried to rip them off for a large amount of money.
Even if this is the first time he has done it, it's just not on.

As many have said, if it was another member that had carried out a stunt like this...instant ban....no questions asked.

It will be very hard to see if this has happended before and figures may slip through that he has touched up.

Sorry Wolff, I know you will read this and you must be regrettig your actions but you have completely let us all down and brought this on yourself.

The initial post of this thread was posted as you were caught out ripping off friends.


Jay, you posted your reply while I was typing this.

My comments above are no way a dig at you and the team as you know my thoughts after talking to you last night. I think you have dealt with this very well and John posted some very concise answers when it was all kicking off yesterday.



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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:49 pm

like i said Jay i understand to an extent and i really hope Wolff made one mistake.

but i still dont think giving members a lifeline to scam someone and have the priviledge to be in the community will work, maybe a total ban on posting the for sale/wtb section could help.

and even if more did come to light do you really think he would retrack and refund all the others if he was outed as a big scale scammer.

If Wolff did make a mistake, fair enough he will have to restore faith but who would be responsive to someone who treats people with such disregard.
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:51 pm

And yes stu....id love to see you in uniform and give your helmet a polish



then take all your money with a royal flush Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:15 pm


Poker night now thats my language Texas Hold Em i hope!

Im pretty sure i would empty everyones pockets though! I have 20Mil in the bank now on my Blackberry game lol

Andy selling bans is something i havent thought about before but its a sound idea in general as a concept

Jay


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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:09 pm

There may be reasons why Wolff carried out this scam- issues at home, some sort of assumed responsibility to own every variant & complete the variant guide, basically money. NO fucking excuse. He knows my feelings on this but at this stage I choose to believe this was a one off (probably only because he was caught out) Now how RS chooses to deal with scammers is different to how TIG does. But I'd like to highlight some things done by other 'well known' collectors: attempt to sell a fake DT saber, the sale of paint touched up Ledy figures, the sale of non-genuine Ledy figures, AFA being fooled into grading non authentic items. Now apart from the last example which involved G1 transformers the rest may not have been blatant scams. But they were all given second chances. ( & their names not really tarnished) We also have current memebers that may have shady pasts that have now done the right things and remain here. Other members that due to terrible life problems (or just being a weird character) have had poor buying & selling standards. Now I have chosen not to mention names because this is not a mud slinging exercise just trying to show people can make terrible mistakes & slowly make things right. I hope Wolff gets his outside of Starwars life sorted out & he is given a second chance to rejoin.
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:15 am

My first comment on this issue. I think the TIG team handle the situation excellent. They gathered information, contacted Wolff, got a confession, presented the information to the community and helped Xiscool get his refund.

Wolff made some terrible choices here, but he confessed and refunded Xiscool´s his money. My suggestion is that he will be get a time limited ban from the forum to let things cool down and get some time to think things over. In the mean time if nothing else is discovered regarding other figures he sold, I think he should be let back into the community.
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:30 pm

Wolff I am drunk, you are a plonker, do the right thing and come back to this hobby- it needs your knowledge, even Chris knows it (however pissed off he was, he has his money back, which at this point in time is all that counts)

Do us and yourself a favour, take a week off, regroup and come back honest + full of life, we miss you, the hobby will miss you, the guide is NOT finished and I don't want to sit here five years from now and think of Wolff as "that cunt who sold a touched up figure" I want to look back and think - Wolff, you fucked up but BOY did you do the right thing afterwards.


ENDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD, fuck I am drunk. Regret this I hope I don't.
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:54 pm

Joe_O wrote:
Wolff I am drunk, you are a plonker, do the right thing and come back to this hobby- it needs your knowledge, even Chris knows it (however pissed off he was, he has his money back, which at this point in time is all that counts)

Do us and yourself a favour, take a week off, regroup and come back honest + full of life, we miss you, the hobby will miss you, the guide is NOT finished and I don't want to sit here five years from now and think of Wolff as "that cunt who sold a touched up figure" I want to look back and think - Wolff, you fucked up but BOY did you do the right thing afterwards.


ENDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD, fuck I am drunk. Regret this I hope I don't.

drinking drinking2 drinking drinking2 drinking drinking2 drinking drinking2 throw up throw up lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:01 pm

Please cant we all wait to pass judgement after Jay and the mods decide his fate. Embarassed

You know, you can still be friends outside of TIG forum, it doesnt have to be about collecting all the time, this is a life isseu, send him an email with your support. Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Conclusion    Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:01 pm

We wanted to give everyone an update surrounding our findings. We made a concerted effort to seek out other buyers and get close up photos of figures. We wanted to see if this was an isolated incident or the uncovering of a larger issue.

After gathering whatever information we could from the collecting community at large we found this Rebel Solider to be the only figure transacted under the pretense of being original. We can never say that this is concrete proof since we relied only on the public forums and their members but we have to use the information we had.

Based on this, TIG has made a couple of decisions regarding Wolff's status.

1) We had Wolff banned through October while we investigated. Seeing that we found this to be a single incident, we are not going to continue with his ban. As of 1 November Wolff's account will be active on TIG.

2) TIG will have a lifetime selling ban on the account as well. While this was a singular occurance we will not tolerate any indiscretions. We are going to institute this as a rule going forward.

This is going to be our final post on the matter but if anyone would like more information or has something to contribute please feel free to reach out to myself or any member of the TIG mod team

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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: Watch out---me, myself and I   Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:19 pm

I am happy to hear this seemed to be an isolated case.

I do not want to justify his actions, but I hope as a community we are able to forgive, though that may take some time.

Therefore I fully support the decision to let Wolff return to TIG.

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Watch out---me, myself and I

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