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 THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1

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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:36 pm

@jason11272stacey wrote:

what i am trying to say is , is there some ledy yodas wi0th wetter paint than others or is it that carded ledy yodas paint wetter than mim yodas and what about the shiney head AS F0R THE R0BE THE DARKER ONE COULD BE MIM
any thoughts guys cheers jase

Interesting question Jason!

I would like to think that there is no difference in the green paint's tackiness of Ledy Yodas whether orginating from Ledy or MIM cards. I suppose they are all tacky. But I have no proof for that.
Who has a pic of a carded MIM Yoda? Do you see proof for sticky paint there?

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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:34 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:
@DLT9 wrote:
just received a vader i bought and its LL.
i checked the saber and it has a letter M on the right side of the hilt.
is that common on LL figs to have a letterd saber?
its hard to notice the letter but its there,dont know if i would be aible to take a pic my camera is not that good.

Hi Bjorn,

I checked my Ledy Darth Vader sabers.
3 have no letter on the hilt, 1 saber has a "A".

I am curious what letters the others have on their Ledy sabers.


yeah me too!
was hoping DB would jump in too with his insight on this.

anyway he's off to UKG to get graded Very Happy my first submission :nailbiting:
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:38 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:



I see ribbons at the inner sides of both cloaks in your pics, so my conclusion: both Kenner.





Thanks then I don't think it is a Lili Ledy. But thanks again for the help.
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:16 am


Biker Scout  



COO guide for Biker Scout: No. 7 is unique for Lili Ledy


NOTE:

  • The Ledy Biker Scout has an unique COO (no. 7). In the pics below a comparison is made with a "Made in Taiwan" Kenner figure (COO no. 1).



Biker Scout: Lili Ledy on the right


Biker Scout: Lili Ledy on the right


Biker Scout: Lili Ledy on the right


Biker Scout: Lili Ledy on the right


Biker Scout: Lili Ledy on the right



DIFFERENCES:
Compared to his Kenner ("Made in Taiwan") counterpart, the Ledy Biker Scout has:

- different sculpt details:

  • mouth (short instead of long mouth)
  • chest (absence of dent)
  • belt (different "V'-shaped buckle)
  • belly (different wrinkles/mould lines)
  • elbow
  • back

- a hard more detailed torso
- an unique COO (COO no. 7)
- in addition the Ledy Biker Scout can have small numbers on the right and left heels, probably used to distinguish the different moulds for Quality Control purposes during production. Numbers 1,2,3,4,6,7,8 have been confirmed.  (kudos to Lars for discovering Very Happy)






ACCESSORIES
The Ledy Biker Scout came with a dark grey blaster which has a different mould compared to a Kenner blaster. Mostly there is a little "A", "B", or "D" on the grip.



LEDY VARIATIONS
There are not less than 3 variants of the Ledy Biker Scout. These differ in the pattern of the belly wrinkles and the appearance of the "V'-shaped buckle. Thx Dan and James for providing pics of your variants!





More pics here, even of a fourth version V4, discovered by Ozio:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.3704573008819.162498.1110304487&type=3&l=f2393f07d0





Last edited by Dr Dengar on Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:25 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:40 am

I love the pictures for the biker scout bounce
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:46 pm

Again, very nice Job Marco
I love your posts, very well done and usefull.
Thanks
J bow
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:03 am


Logray



COO guide for Logray: No. 3 is unique for Lili Ledy


NOTE:

  • The Ledy Logray has an unique COO (no. 3). In the pics below a comparison is made with a Kenner Logray having COO no. 1.



Logray: Lili Ledy on the right


Logray: Lili Ledy on the right


Logray: Lili Ledy on the right


Logray: Lili Ledy on the right


Logray: Lili Ledy on the right


Logray: Lili Ledy on the right



DIFFERENCES:
Compared to his Kenner (“H.K.”) counterpart, the Ledy Logray has:
- darker stripes (keep in mind however that some Kenner figures –e.g. the Macau version -  can also have darker stripes)
- tacky paint (often leaving paint residues on the belt of the pouche)
- an unique COO (COO no. 4).


ACCESSORIES
The Ledy Logray carries a black rubbery:

  • hood with a ‘175080’ mark on the inside
  • pouche with a “LL” mark on the inside
  • staff with a “LL” mark.







LEDY VARIATIONS
The fur of the Ledy Logray can be painted in slightly different brown colours.

Lili Ledy Logray: Different colour variants.


Lili Ledy Logray: Different colour variants.


Logray and Chief Chirpa at 1:11


Last edited by Dr Dengar on Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:39 am

@DLT9 wrote:
@Dr Dengar wrote:
@DLT9 wrote:
just received a vader i bought and its LL.
i checked the saber and it has a letter M on the right side of the hilt.
is that common on LL figs to have a letterd saber?
its hard to notice the letter but its there,dont know if i would be aible to take a pic my camera is not that good.

Hi Bjorn,

I checked my Ledy Darth Vader sabers.
3 have no letter on the hilt, 1 saber has a "A".

I am curious what letters the others have on their Ledy sabers.


yeah me too!
was hoping DB would jump in too with his insight on this.

anyway he's off to UKG to get graded Very Happy my first submission :nailbiting:

I have 3 different MIM Vaders MOC, and I cannot see a letter on any of their hilts. So, unless they have a letter on the left side of the hilt which I can't see, I'm assuming none of them have lettered sabers.

That's super cool, though. I didn't know the thicker LL sabers had letters. I was always under the impression that the letters were only on the earliest DT and regular Kenner sabers.

Now I have new variants to look for! cheers
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:21 pm

Thanks Tad for checking your Ledy sabers!

I hope more members do a quick check and chime in.
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:29 pm




Question: What is the connection between between Lili Ledy and PBP?
Answer: ?


Sofar I haven't been able to get a clear answer. So I thought about sharing my current view which is based upon the gathered knowledge from others and my own ideas. I hope you would like to share your own views/ideas/comments to get some good discussion and in the end hopefully a clear answer.

What is clear is that some Ledy and PBP figures are virtually indistinguishable. The used moulds as well as the paint applications are the same. This is for instance the case for Ben Kenobi, Yoda (dark green version), C-3PO (non removable limbs with screw at the back). Maybe other figures as well?

How to explain these resemblances?

  • It might be that these figures were exported from Spain to Mexico. It seems unlikely because of Mexican's protectionist trading laws at that moment (we are talking the pre NAFTA era), stating that toys for the Mexican market had to be produced in Mexico. A good thing actually, otherwise we would never ended up with those nice Lili Ledy variants. Very Happy
  • So maybe the other way around, i.e. export of figures from Mexico to Spain? Ledy first started to produce the 3 3/4” figures in 1983, or even one year earlier if we believe Alejandro Becerra, Ledy Quality Control Director, claiming that Lili Ledy produced all 10 figures for their ‘test market’ ESB 10-backs themselves in 1982. In case of export from Mexico to Spain it would mean that the dark green Yoda was released by PBP not earlier than 1983. Same for the C-3PO with screw at the back, which – oddly - was released by PBP on a removable limbs C-3PO card. True or false?
  • Maybe there was no export of figures at all, neither from or to Mexico. Maybe the resemblance of some Ledy and PBP figures can be explained assuming both factories were using the same moulds. But if this was the case, you still would expect to see some clear paint differences, and we don't. Remember that most Ledy figures have clear paint differences compared to figures produced in other factories.


unsure Any idea?

To make things more confusing, here is another interesting figure: The blonde hair Ledy Luke Bespin. This figure was released on Ledy's ESB 10-back but also on the early ROTJ 12-back. The brown hair Ledy Luke was released on later ROTJ cards.

Ledy Luke Bespins: Brown hair with Ledy COO (no. 8 ) and blonde hair with PBP COO (no. 4).









Though being released on Ledy cards, the blonde hair Luke has a PBP COO (COO no. 4) and even came with PBP accessories.

So what is he:
  • a PBP figure which was exported to Mexico to be released on the Ledy ESB 10-back and early ROTJ 12-backs?
  • a Ledy figure?



Lili Ledy ESB 10-back. Back. (Picture from SWCA)
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:09 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:


TIE Fighter Pilot: Kenner (left), PBP (middle), Lili Ledy (right)


TIE Fighter Pilot: Kenner (left), PBP (middle), Lili Ledy (right)




DIFFERENCES:
  • The Lili Ledy TIE Fighter pilot has an unique COO according to the guide (no. 6 in the COO guide shown above). However the extent of the scar varies, meaning different letters may still be visible. In the pictures above a PBP TIE Fighter pliot (thx Javi!) was included cause he has a similar COO (no. 5).
  • Compared to his Kenner brother, the LL TIE Fighter Pilot has:
    - glossy instead of matt black paint
    - reddish instead of orange buttons on the armour
    - bold face Imperial emblems on helmet and shoulders. The emblems on the shoulders are oriented differently (similar as is the case for the Ledy AT-ST driver)




Hi Marco, I have two variants of this fig mate, I haven't got a PBP but I've included a MIHK in the pics.



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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:37 am



Ledy Bespin Luke with number 7 COO
there is a Luke with number 8 that is NOT Ledy
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:59 am

Marco, on your luke bespin question. Isn't it possible that at that time Ledy and PBP had the same sort of relationship with the far east factories as PBP had with Meccano and Palitoy with regards to there walrus man variants? Like the china/h.k factories producing luke just for release on PBP/Ledy cards.
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:48 am

Hi Scott,

A nice couple of Ledy TIE Fighter pilot you got there!

The "Made in HongKong" on the right leg is partially removed in the Ledy Pilots. The extent of the scar varies, meaning different parts of "Made in Hongkong" may still be visible in different figures. And that is exactly what you see in your pics.


@snaggletooth wrote:
Marco, on your luke bespin question. Isn't it possible that at that time Ledy and PBP had the same sort of relationship with the far east factories as PBP had with Meccano and Palitoy with regards to there walrus man variants? Like the china/h.k factories producing luke just for release on PBP/Ledy cards.

Good suggestion. So accordingly a third factory might have produced the blonde Luke Bespin figure for PBP and Lili Ledy. This would mean a violation of Mexican trade laws at that moment, but still it is a possibility. Thanks for your idea!
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:56 am

Hi James,

Thanks for sharing these pics.

Is the non Ledy Luke Bespin with COO no.8, the one which was packed in China baggies?

Do you have any ideas about the PBP/Ledy connection?
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:14 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:
Hi Scott,

A nice couple of Ledy TIE Fighter pilot you got there!

The "Made in HongKong" on the right leg is partially removed in the Ledy Pilots. The extent of the scar varies, meaning different parts of "Made in Hongkong" may still be visible in different figures. And that is exactly what you see in your pics.


@snaggletooth wrote:
Marco, on your luke bespin question. Isn't it possible that at that time Ledy and PBP had the same sort of relationship with the far east factories as PBP had with Meccano and Palitoy with regards to there walrus man variants? Like the china/h.k factories producing luke just for release on PBP/Ledy cards.

Good suggestion. So accordingly a third factory might have produced the blonde Luke Bespin figure for PBP and Lili Ledy. This would mean a violation of Mexican trade laws at that moment, but still it is a possibility. Thanks for your idea!

Maybe spain had the relationship and the passed on the figs to Ledy.

Are you sure that the 2 Tie Pilots are not 2 different molds? Is there any evidence of figures with more and less MIHK left?

I'm only asking because I've had a couple of each of the PBP snags, full scar and half scar. Both where exactly the same(2 half & 2 Full scar)
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:58 am

@snaggletooth wrote:

Are you sure that the 2 Tie Pilots are not 2 different molds? Is there any evidence of figures with more and less MIHK left?

I'm only asking because I've had a couple of each of the PBP snags, full scar and half scar. Both where exactly the same(2 half & 2 Full scar)

Good question, I don't know the answer.

When looking into detaill, there are also many different scars for the Tri Snowtrooper (see the COO guide). Do these all represent different moulds as well?

Maybe each specific scar indeed represents a different mould. Or maybe one specific mould ages during its lifetime, and after adjustment produces a different scar.
Maybe a combination of both explanations?

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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:22 pm

One of my Ledy Darth Vader sabers looks peculiar.

See the picture below, it is the one in the top row on the left. The saber seems to be made from the same deep red translucent plastic as the other Ledy sabers shown in the pic, so I don't think this is repro crap. However the tip of this saber is much thinner, more like a Kenner saber. I also included a Kenner saber in the picture (at the right).
Has anyone seen this before?




BTW: I checked the hilt of all Ledy sabers again, this time with a magnifier glass, and I saw much more now.
From top till down the following letters are visible on the hilt (at the side which is shown on the picture).
1 “I I” (very faint)
2 “A”
3 “I”
4 “I”

Ledy Vaders: Normal saber (left), thin saber (right).


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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:51 pm

I haven't seen a Ledy DV Saber like that before. I was always under the impression that the major identifying factor of a Ledy DV saber WAS the thicker tip. If the thin tip one you've shown is indeed a Ledy saber, it opens up a whole other can of worms for me. For instance, when I'm looking for MIM MOC that have an offer sticker on the back, you can't see the "Made in Mexico," so I've always used the thick saber to verify.

unsure
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:53 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:
@snaggletooth wrote:

Are you sure that the 2 Tie Pilots are not 2 different molds? Is there any evidence of figures with more and less MIHK left?

I'm only asking because I've had a couple of each of the PBP snags, full scar and half scar. Both where exactly the same(2 half & 2 Full scar)

Good question, I don't know the answer.

When looking into detaill, there are also many different scars for the Tri Snowtrooper (see the COO guide). Do these all represent different moulds as well?

Maybe each specific scar indeed represents a different mould. Or maybe one specific mould ages during its lifetime, and after adjustment produces a different scar.
Maybe a combination of both explanations?


I think yes or at least the same mold adjusted for each scar variant. They probably used some sort of compound to fill in the COOs in the mold before they injected the the plastic, once this didn't do the job they wanted it to it was re adjusted which made a new scar.
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:24 am

If there is a letter in all my LEIA BOUSHH helmets does that mean that all the helmets is Lili Ledy ?

I have a helmet with the letter H, D and G.
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:57 am

no standad kenner boushh helmets have letter as well as ledy ones
my understanding is to tell a ledy boush helmet is down to the paint ledy is more wet glosy silvery metlic look


as for the vader saber my guess would be yes it is ledy but a factory reject that slipped through after all there was no quality control in the ledy factory Wink

jase
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:20 am

@jason11272stacey wrote:
no standad kenner boushh helmets have letter as well as ledy ones
my understanding is to tell a ledy boush helmet is down to the paint ledy is more wet glosy silvery metlic look


as for the vader saber my guess would be yes it is ledy but a factory reject that slipped through after all there was no quality control in the ledy factory Wink

jase


So the Guide on page 3 is wrong ?

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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:16 am

tiwan leia boush helmits have no letter just mold circle inside

the hong kong boushh helmits have a letter inside but are still kenner

i had a hong kong leia boush that shered the same coo as a ledy but it was just a kenner and the helmit had a letter inside

so yes it does need changeing kenner helmets can have no letter and a letter inside

but ledy allways have a letter inside

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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:19 am

@jason11272stacey wrote:
tiwan leia boush helmits have no letter just mold circle inside

the hong kong boushh helmits have a letter inside but are still kenner

i had a hong kong leia boush that shered the same coo as a ledy but it was just a kenner and the helmit had a letter inside

so yes it does need changeing kenner helmets can have no letter and a letter inside

but ledy allways have a letter inside


Thanks nice to know. I will try to ID the weapons and figures maybe it gives me a better idea of what I have.
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