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 THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1

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snaggletooth
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:14 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:
Hi Scott,

A nice couple of Ledy TIE Fighter pilot you got there!

The "Made in HongKong" on the right leg is partially removed in the Ledy Pilots. The extent of the scar varies, meaning different parts of "Made in Hongkong" may still be visible in different figures. And that is exactly what you see in your pics.


@snaggletooth wrote:
Marco, on your luke bespin question. Isn't it possible that at that time Ledy and PBP had the same sort of relationship with the far east factories as PBP had with Meccano and Palitoy with regards to there walrus man variants? Like the china/h.k factories producing luke just for release on PBP/Ledy cards.

Good suggestion. So accordingly a third factory might have produced the blonde Luke Bespin figure for PBP and Lili Ledy. This would mean a violation of Mexican trade laws at that moment, but still it is a possibility. Thanks for your idea!

Maybe spain had the relationship and the passed on the figs to Ledy.

Are you sure that the 2 Tie Pilots are not 2 different molds? Is there any evidence of figures with more and less MIHK left?

I'm only asking because I've had a couple of each of the PBP snags, full scar and half scar. Both where exactly the same(2 half & 2 Full scar)
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:58 am

@snaggletooth wrote:

Are you sure that the 2 Tie Pilots are not 2 different molds? Is there any evidence of figures with more and less MIHK left?

I'm only asking because I've had a couple of each of the PBP snags, full scar and half scar. Both where exactly the same(2 half & 2 Full scar)

Good question, I don't know the answer.

When looking into detaill, there are also many different scars for the Tri Snowtrooper (see the COO guide). Do these all represent different moulds as well?

Maybe each specific scar indeed represents a different mould. Or maybe one specific mould ages during its lifetime, and after adjustment produces a different scar.
Maybe a combination of both explanations?

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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:22 pm

One of my Ledy Darth Vader sabers looks peculiar.

See the picture below, it is the one in the top row on the left. The saber seems to be made from the same deep red translucent plastic as the other Ledy sabers shown in the pic, so I don't think this is repro crap. However the tip of this saber is much thinner, more like a Kenner saber. I also included a Kenner saber in the picture (at the right).
Has anyone seen this before?




BTW: I checked the hilt of all Ledy sabers again, this time with a magnifier glass, and I saw much more now.
From top till down the following letters are visible on the hilt (at the side which is shown on the picture).
1 “I I” (very faint)
2 “A”
3 “I”
4 “I”

Ledy Vaders: Normal saber (left), thin saber (right).


Last edited by Dr Dengar on Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:51 pm

I haven't seen a Ledy DV Saber like that before. I was always under the impression that the major identifying factor of a Ledy DV saber WAS the thicker tip. If the thin tip one you've shown is indeed a Ledy saber, it opens up a whole other can of worms for me. For instance, when I'm looking for MIM MOC that have an offer sticker on the back, you can't see the "Made in Mexico," so I've always used the thick saber to verify.

unsure
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:53 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:
@snaggletooth wrote:

Are you sure that the 2 Tie Pilots are not 2 different molds? Is there any evidence of figures with more and less MIHK left?

I'm only asking because I've had a couple of each of the PBP snags, full scar and half scar. Both where exactly the same(2 half & 2 Full scar)

Good question, I don't know the answer.

When looking into detaill, there are also many different scars for the Tri Snowtrooper (see the COO guide). Do these all represent different moulds as well?

Maybe each specific scar indeed represents a different mould. Or maybe one specific mould ages during its lifetime, and after adjustment produces a different scar.
Maybe a combination of both explanations?


I think yes or at least the same mold adjusted for each scar variant. They probably used some sort of compound to fill in the COOs in the mold before they injected the the plastic, once this didn't do the job they wanted it to it was re adjusted which made a new scar.
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:24 am

If there is a letter in all my LEIA BOUSHH helmets does that mean that all the helmets is Lili Ledy ?

I have a helmet with the letter H, D and G.
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:57 am

no standad kenner boushh helmets have letter as well as ledy ones
my understanding is to tell a ledy boush helmet is down to the paint ledy is more wet glosy silvery metlic look


as for the vader saber my guess would be yes it is ledy but a factory reject that slipped through after all there was no quality control in the ledy factory Wink

jase
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:20 am

@jason11272stacey wrote:
no standad kenner boushh helmets have letter as well as ledy ones
my understanding is to tell a ledy boush helmet is down to the paint ledy is more wet glosy silvery metlic look


as for the vader saber my guess would be yes it is ledy but a factory reject that slipped through after all there was no quality control in the ledy factory Wink

jase


So the Guide on page 3 is wrong ?

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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:16 am

tiwan leia boush helmits have no letter just mold circle inside

the hong kong boushh helmits have a letter inside but are still kenner

i had a hong kong leia boush that shered the same coo as a ledy but it was just a kenner and the helmit had a letter inside

so yes it does need changeing kenner helmets can have no letter and a letter inside

but ledy allways have a letter inside

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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:19 am

@jason11272stacey wrote:
tiwan leia boush helmits have no letter just mold circle inside

the hong kong boushh helmits have a letter inside but are still kenner

i had a hong kong leia boush that shered the same coo as a ledy but it was just a kenner and the helmit had a letter inside

so yes it does need changeing kenner helmets can have no letter and a letter inside

but ledy allways have a letter inside


Thanks nice to know. I will try to ID the weapons and figures maybe it gives me a better idea of what I have.
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:03 pm


Jase and Lars,

I will add the additional info to the Boushh entry, to make clear that Kenner helmets can also come with numbers inside, and this is not a distinctive Ledy characteristic. Remaning Ledy traits are the orange plastic and the metallic paint on top of the helmet. Do you agree?

I appreciate your feedback very much guys, at the end of the day it will help us to get a better TIG LL guide. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:40 pm

hi marco i agree about the glosy matalic paint on top of the helmet
not shure if there is any visable differences in the orange plastic allthough it is very possible as there is a lot of differences in plastic on ledy figures as to kenner

maybe get a pic up of a unpainted tiwan helmit and a unpainted ledy to see if there is any differences
thats if anyone has both lol!

the one thing i have heard is that the ledy plastic on the unpainted helmit is more glosy than the tiawan but again maybe here say
can anyone chime in and conferm this

jase
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:06 am

Ledy saber with J on the hilt

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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:07 pm

Thx Starwizz!!

So now the following letters have bene confirmed for the Ledy sabers in this thread :
I, II, A, J

Jase: Your suggestion that the thin tip Ledy saber is a factory error, might very well be. Thx! Very Happy

BTW: I updated the helmet information in Boushh's entry using your suggestions.


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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:07 am


Nien Nunb



COO guide for Nien Nunb: No. 3 is unique for Lili Ledy


NOTE:
  • The Ledy Nien Numb has an unique COO (no. 3). In the pics below a comparison is made with a Kenner Nien Nunb having COO no. 1.



Nien Nunb: Lili Ledy on the right


Nien Nunb: Lili Ledy on the right


Nien Nunb: Lili Ledy on the right


Nien Nunb: Lili Ledy on the right



DIFFERENCES:
Compared to his Kenner (“Made in Hong Kong”) counterpart, the Ledy Nien Nunb has:
- different sculpt details:
  • extended left tumb
  • boots (stripes on top of the left boot are rounded instead of flattened at the end)
  • circles on heels
  • helmet (different mould details at the back)

- deep red instead of purplish red suit
- glossy instead of matt blue jacket
- glossy instead of matt black gloves
- glossy instead of matt grey boots
- darker grey skin (face)
- darker pink instead of bright pink mouth
- an unique COO (COO no.3)






ACCESSORIES
The Ledy Nien Nunb carries a black pilot blaster having a different mould compared to the Kenner blaster.





Last edited by Dr Dengar on Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:41 am

Hi Marco

I just want to share my thoughts with you in the hope that you'll add the Tie pilot to the variant list Very Happy

I've been talking to other collectors and have come to the conclusion that because of the poor quality control at Ledy there is probably hundreds of slight variations in the COO's. For example I have 4 Bib's that have slight COO variations, there is 2 date positions and 2 COO positions and I have 4 variants of these. I imagine this is down to having several molds for each part of the body, like the Biker torso and leg numbers.

I know that most people are not interested in these slight variants but I am and think the MADE IN NO COO and the NO COO Tie Pilots have a big enough difference in the molding that he deserves his place, especially is the storm trooper gets in Very Happy

Once we know all the differences then collectors can decide for them self's what they want in there collections.

Scott

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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:57 am

here is my ledy tie pilot coo witch is different to all shown Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:04 am

Thanks Jason, Thats another one worth adding to me Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:09 am

Good stuff Scott and Jase!

My idea about the TIE Fighter COO variants is that Lili Ledy filled up the “Made in Hong Kong” texts in the moulds with small pieces of metal. Probably there was some variation in the length/thickness of the used metal in the different moulds, explaining the different no COO variants, with different parts of “Made in Hong Kong” still visible. Maybe pieces of metal inserts got deformed or even lost during the lifetime of the moulds explaining more COO variants. Finally it could be that after certain weathering of the metal inserts, new metal pieces were inserted, explaining even more variants.

Alternatively the no COO could have been obtained by handmade erasing “Made in Hong Kong” in the freshly cast figures after removal from their moulds. That would also explain a lot of COO variants.

No matter what explanation is valid (any input will be appreciated Very Happy), fact is there are a lot of COO variants for the Ledy TIE Fighter pilot.

So certainly there is a big window of opportunity for the real die hard variant collectors out here. Very Happy

What I can do is the following. PM me pics of your TIE pilot Ledy variants (only the COO parts) and I will make a composite picture, which we can add to the figure’s entry in this thread and the TIG guide.

BTW: I think the Ledy Bib COO variants represent the different moulds used for this figure. So probably there is a limited number here. Can you post some pics of the four different Ledy variants you found?

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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:18 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:
Good stuff Scott and Jase!

My idea about the TIE Fighter COO variants is that Lili Ledy filled up the “Made in Hong Kong” texts in the moulds with small pieces of metal. Probably there was some variation in the length/thickness of the used metal in the different moulds, explaining the different no COO variants, with different parts of “Made in Hong Kong” still visible. Maybe pieces of metal inserts got deformed or even lost during the lifetime of the moulds explaining more COO variants. Finally it could be that after certain weathering of the metal inserts, new metal pieces were inserted, explaining even more variants.

Alternatively the no COO could have been obtained by handmade erasing “Made in Hong Kong” in the freshly cast figures after removal from their moulds. That would also explain a lot of COO variants.

No matter what explanation is valid (any input will be appreciated Very Happy), fact is there are a lot of COO variants for the Ledy TIE Fighter pilot.

So certainly there is a big window of opportunity for the real die hard variant collectors out here. Very Happy

What I can do is the following. PM me pics of your TIE pilot Ledy variants (only the COO parts) and I will make a composite picture, which we can add to the figure’s entry in this thread and the TIG guide.

BTW: I think the Ledy Bib COO variants represent the different moulds used for this figure. So probably there is a limited number here. Can you post some pics of the four different Ledy variants you found?


Hi Marco

Your first thought I'd say are more probable than the handmade erasing theroy and I also think all the variants could be different molds that were edited in the same way and after the first couple of batches lost parts of there fillings. If that was the case then there might not be that many out there. Would be interested to find out how many other members have variants but also the same COO's

Great Idea about adding all the COO's to both threads too, I'll take some pics for you later.
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:33 pm

Herse's the 4 Bibs, Very slight variations but different all the same.

These 2 have the same date stamp/position but the o in KONG is larger on the second


These 2 have the same date stamp/position but different to the last 2 and the o in KONG is also larger on the second



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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:20 pm

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the COO pics. What becomes clear is that are two different Ledy COOs which can easiliy be distinguished by the positioning of "(c) LFL 83" relative to the "folds". These COOs are labelled no. 2 and 3 according to Wolff's scheme.




COO no. 2


COO no. 3


I am not sure whether the different sizes of the "O" in "HONG KONG" do truly represent different moulds and thus COOs. The bigger "O" looks a bit warped. In fact all letters seem to be a bit different on close inspection. My idea is that these are small variations which were generated during production, irrespective of the used mould.
Maybe Ledy used plastics with a slightly different composition and/or applied process conditions rendering the plastic less rigid at the time point of removing the mould. This is just plain speculation off course but it would fit nicely with similar observations of small deformations on the COOs of other Ledy figures such as Yoda and Gamorrean Guard.


Ledy Yoda. Note the warped ©.



Two Ledy Gamorrean Guards. Note the deformed © on the right figure.


So to me it seems like there are only two different COOs. Besides there can be small variantions for one COO - like the ones shown above - due to batch to batch variations.


Tell me what you think, it is good to have some discussion about this topic here.
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:47 am

Hi Marco

In my last post I say the o in KONG is bigger in the second bib in both pics but actually its bigger in the first(my mistake) if you look at the o in HONG it is also slightly larger. That HONG KONG is also the same as the Left one in the second pic. To me that represents 2 different molds for the HONG KONG, combine that with the 2 different molds of the Date stamp and it makes 4 different COO variants. In hand these differences are more clear to see.

As for the yoda, if there is other exact copys of this COO then this must have been a different mold also.

The G'Gaurd (c) could have been squashed before the plastic dried but looks like the last L is in a different position to the first which may also represent a different mold.


Last edited by snaggletooth on Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:01 am

@snaggletooth wrote:
2 different molds for the HONG KONG, combine that with the 2 different molds of the Date stamp it makes 4 are different COO variants. In hand these differences are more clear to see.

or there are just 2 pairs of molds & legs get mixed up?

is COO number 2 & 3 now confirmed as Ledy options?
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PostSubject: Re: THE LILI LEDY GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD PART 1   Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:01 am

@aussiejames wrote:
@snaggletooth wrote:
2 different molds for the HONG KONG, combine that with the 2 different molds of the Date stamp and it makes 4 different COO variants. In hand these differences are more clear to see.

or there are just 2 pairs of molds & legs get mixed up?

is COO number 2 & 3 now confirmed as Ledy options?

Good point James, I never even thought that.
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