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 UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!

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Joe_O
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 28, 2010 10:12 am

Yep was only an example but I agree, 1 in xxxxxxxxxxxx for sure.

In fact, the reason they exist in higher numbers than most paint errors is probably because they were an accessory and not a figure piece, makes more sense to me that less care was given to painting accessories, there really wasn't too many helmets in the line or even accessories that needed painting so makes sense more were unpainted on the factory.

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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 28, 2010 5:57 pm

Wolff!!!

Nice to talk to you again....

I think the helmets are legit due to 2 facts:

1. Like some guys have said, I have noticed too that the TW Leia boushh helmet is fairly easy to strip even without using solvents, so why soak it in then?
2. If they were the work of a scammer the market would be flooded with them and as far as I know there aren't many around. On the other hand the unpainted helmets have been around for quite a while, before people even started noticing them as interesting "variations" (to me they are more a production error than a variation).

My 2 cents

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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2011 7:19 am

Take a look at this guys, maybe it sheds some more light on this topic.

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 IMG_5207

- Left figure: Ledy Boushh with Ledy overstock helmet, bought from Chaz about a year ago.
- Right figure: Leia Boushh with Kenner unpainted helmet (and unpainted Ledy torso, Kenner production limbs), bought from Adam Burges via ebay. According to the COA that came with it, the unpainted helmet is a first shot.

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Dia1-15

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Dia2-12


There are clearly differences between the two unpainted helmets as you can see in the pics below (colour, surface structure).
Both the painted and unpainted Ledy helmets have a "F" inside, whereas the unpainted Kenner helmet has a mould circle inside.

Left: Ledy production helmet. Middle: Ledy unpainted overstock helmet. Right: Kenner unpainted helmet.
UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 IMG_5209


Left: Ledy production helmet. Middle: Ledy unpainted overstock helmet. Right: Kenner unpainted helmet.
UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 IMG_5211


Left: Ledy production helmet. Middle: Ledy unpainted overstock helmet. Right: Kenner unpainted helmet.
UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 IMG_5214


What do you think guys?

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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 05, 2011 7:33 am

All pre production unpainted helmets I know of have letters inside. I still am dubious about the unpainted 'Kenner' with mold circle (Taiwan helmet)
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2011 6:20 pm

Hehehe...I still doubt every unpainted helmet I have seen besides the Ledy ones (overstock). certificates are made by humans...failures can happen...
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 26, 2011 5:47 am

The unpainted Boushh helmet intrigues me. As it is so difficult to grasp the differences by pictures alone ('look and feel'), I decided to purchase a few (starting Mai 2010) . Right now I have five different types of unpainted helmets in front of me from different sources. Time for some field research to hopefully shed some more light upon this issue. Very Happy

Before starting I would like to know what is the exact difference between a Taiwan and HK production helmet.

My understanding: Compared to the HK helmet, the Taiwan helmet:
- has a more yellowish colour
- has a bit shorter nose. EDIT: turns out to be not true, see next post
- has a mould circle instead of letters inside

Is this correct?

Are there also HK production helmets with a mould circle inside?

Please let me know, guys.


Last edited by Dr Dengar on Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 27, 2011 8:38 am

Before starting with the unpainted helmets, I thought it might be good to do a little bit reseach on the Kenner production helmets. Based upon one Taiwan and three Hong Kong helmets (all Kenner) the following observations were made:

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Dia2-13

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Dia3-11

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Dia4-5

So the main distinctive traits of the Taiwan helmet seemed to be the big mould circle inside, and the lack of height difference between the two half circles at the top (look at the pics to understand what I mean here).

Things started to be a bit confusing when looking at the Taiwan helmet on TIG's reference site. The helmet has a mould circle as well which seemed OK, but there is also a height difference between the two half circles.

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Dia1-17

So there are two Taiwan moulds? One with and one w/o height difference of the two half circles? :scratch:

The reason I ask is because two of the unpainted helmets have a mould circle inside AND a height difference between the two half circles.

Need some input here pls.




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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 27, 2011 9:02 am

I have a Taiwan with a height difference & my unpainted has no height difference, also have yellow & orange Hong Kongs ( but may be due to fading?)
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 27, 2011 9:21 am

@aussiejames wrote:
I have a Taiwan with a height difference & my unpainted has no height difference, also have yellow & orange Hong Kongs ( but may be due to fading?)

Thanks AJ for your input. Very Happy

Your Taiwan helmet with height difference: is it matt and a bit more yellowish (dull orange) compared to a HK helmet? Does it have a mould circle inside?

BTW: I also have a pale yellow HK helmet, fading I guess.


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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 27, 2011 9:31 am

"is it matt and a bit more yellowish (dull orange) compared to a HK helmet? Does it have a mould circle inside?"
yes,yes & yes & came with my brown plastic molded torso Taiwan variant.
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 27, 2011 9:54 am

Ok thanks!

So there are the following moulds for the Boushh helmet:

Taiwan:
V1: mould circle inside, W/O height difference
V2: mould circle inside, WITH height difference

Hong Kong:
V3: small letter inside, height difference

Do you agree?

Then we end up with something like this for the production helmets:

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 BoushhHelmetComparison

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 BoushhHelmetComparison2

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 BoushhHelmetComparison3

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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 27, 2011 12:27 pm


After dealing with the different production moulds, let's go back to the topic of this thread: unpainted helmets.

First there is a Hong Kong type unpainted helmet: the Lili Ledy overstock helmet. A comparison was made to Ledy and Kenner production helmets (also Hong Kong type) in the pics below.

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Dia5-8

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Dia6-6

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Dia7-4

To me it is pretty convincing that the unpainted helmet is Ledy overstock. It has the same colour as the Ledy production helmet (which differs from the colour of the Kenner helmet). Moreover there are no signs of paint stripping. The surface of the helmet is very smooth and glossy.

What do you think?
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 27, 2011 12:52 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:



To me it is pretty convincing that the unpainted helmet is Ledy overstock. It has the same colour as the Ledy production helmet (which differs from the colour of the Kenner helmet). Moreover there are no signs of paint stripping. The surface of the helmet is very smooth and glossy.

What do you think?

Very thorough Marco and well illustrated Smile

@aussiejames wrote:
"is it matt and a bit more yellowish (dull orange) compared to a HK helmet? Does it have a mould circle inside?"
yes,yes & yes & came with my brown plastic molded torso Taiwan variant.

My brown plastic torso Boushh also had the same helmet with height difference in semi circles and came from a cut card.


Last edited by olisuds on Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 27, 2011 3:03 pm

@olisuds wrote:


Very thorough Marco and well illustrated Smile

Yes I would agree. IMO the unpainted helmet with lettering is LL overstock


Thanks Oli! Very Happy

That was just the easy part Very Happy. Now comes part 2 which is far less conclusive: Taiwan type unpainted helmets. See the pics below.

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Dia8-4

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Dia9-3

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Dia10-2

The first three unpainted helmets in the pics below have a surface which is less smooth compared to the production helmet. Surely this might indicate to stripping using organic solvents as Wolff pointed out earlier in this thread. In that case they are fakes.
But IF we just for one minute consider the possibility these helmets are authentic. What might they be?

First let's read some meaningful quotes from this RS post: http://forum.rebelscum.com/t904175/#post15081092

@Shane Turgeon wrote:

Well, i'd like to think i can speak with some certainty on the subject as i turned up one of the earliest ones, currently own three of them and have spent a fair bit of time trying to figure out the differences and subtlties of this variation.

By all accounts John, it looks like this is a legitimate example. All 3 of the ones i have have a slightly "dirty" look to them and show no signs that they were ever painted. There are also a couple of other tell-tale signs on yours, such as the large ring on the inside of the helmet that all of the examples i've ever seen have. Plus, the fact that it came from a childhood collection makes it even more likely that, at the very least, it wasn't tampered with.

@Shane Turgeon wrote:

Just an addendum to my post regarding the helmet itself...there are a couple of production variations on even the painted helmets - one with a glossy finish (HK) and one with a duller finish like the unpainted one shown above (Taiwan). All of the unpainted ones that have surfaced are of the duller variety and it's surmised that they all came from the same factory where a batch simply missed the spray op. Now, like i said, that's just the theory, and there's no hard evidence whatsoever to back it up but with all of the known examples matching, i'd say that's the safest bet. No one will know for sure until a MOC example turns up.

It should also be noted that these are not FSs or protos in any way and are simply production errors. I think it's pretty neat variation tho.

@Shane Turgeon wrote:

Most of the FS helmets i've seen are all glossy and not as soft as the unpainted variant,

Spidey_Seth wrote:

The Earth needs to read up on what they call FS or protos, before I knew any better I bought one of these from them and it was described as a first shot prototype, and that was less than a year ago. I still would have bought it from them regardless, but later finding out that what you think is a proto is not, is kind of depressing

@CLONERZ wrote:

I have a first shot leia boussh,and the helmet is painted ,but is diffrent in that the helmet is smaller and much tighter on the figures head than a normal production helmet.It is a very tight squeeze .The colours seem the same to me though.

Back to the question what might the Taiwan unpainted helmets be, stated they are not fake:
  • First shots/prototypes for the Taiwan type helmet? (like the Earth’s Certificate of Authenticity stated for one of the helmets in the pics): Not very likely, reading the quotes above. FS helmets are made from a harder material. Probably the Earth made a mistake here (see also Spidey_Seth’s quote)
  • Unpainted helmets that passed through Quality Control and were carded with the Boushh figure: not very likely as no MOC has shown up sofar.
  • Off specs helmets which got a bit deformed during the injection mould process and which were subsequently collected and kept apart for recycling purposes: I like this explanation the best. It might explain the rougher surface of these helmets. Maybe a factory employer took a few out of the factory and they eventually came in collector's hands. In this case the helmets are off course no production items.
  • ....


The fourth unpainted helmet is very odd. It was sold to me as a prototype for cheap money in 2010. I first realized it has a much smaller size than a regular helmet a few weeks ago. I have no idea what it could be:
  • Unpainted modern helmet?
  • Unpainted Taiwan helmet that shrunk. Can a Boushh helmet irreversibly shrink this way by placing it at a very low temperature for a while (for instance a liquid nitrogen bath). Just a wild guess. Any plastic experts out there?
  • Some other explanation...


unsure

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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 25, 2012 4:11 pm

I recently bought something for my unpainted helmet fetish Very Happy : Taiwan Boussh with unpainted helmet.

The helmet has a very smooth and glossy surface, the first time that I have seen this for an unpainted Taiwan helmet. All the other loose ones in my collection have a much rougher surface, including Adam's which came with a COA from the Earth (see the previous posts on this page).
Interestingly the Taiwan helmet was AFA graded, so an unpainted Taiwan helmet should have a smooth and not a rough surface according to AFA.... :scratch:


UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 IMG_6107

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 IMG_6109

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 IMG_6108

Hey wait a minute.....that is not a Taiwan helmet....it is a Hong Kong helmet...WTF!!! Shocked

(the helmet has a letter inside, that's why it is the Hong Kong mould)

I am now pretty sure that the helmet is an overstock Ledy helmet, it looks exactly like the other one in my collection (colour, surface, size, and Hong Kong instead of Taiwan mould). Also the guy who sent the figure and helmet to AFA was a serious Ledy collector.

I just don't understand why AFA had it graded with a Taiwan figure? :scratch:
Well AFA makes far worse mistakes sometimes. So you don't hear me complaining. Not at all! Very Happy
I needed a Taiwan figure anyway, and one can never have too many Ledy overstock helmets, especially for the price I paid.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Still no answers to the questions in the previous post......

Who can give some input here?

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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 15, 2012 1:04 pm

Marco,

Here are some pictures of my unpainted Boushh first shot prototype with torso moulded in dark brown plastic. The helmet is a Hong Kong issue helmet and has the letter E on the inside.

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 P1000569

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 P1000562b

The figure has COO and copyright markings on it which seems to be common with a lot of Boussh prototypes I have seen however the torso is moulded in dark brown plastic where as all Boushh figures produced in Hong Kong have torsos moulded in tan plastic. It also has a COA from Tom Derby.

I have also seen a first shot Boushh moulded in red and bright orange with a Made in Taiwan COO and the unpainted helmet was very light peach/pink colour. This is the only Taiwan issue helmet that I believe to be a true prototype.

Interestingly enough there is a prototype Boushh helmet cast in grey plastic and painted orange!!

IMO the Hong Kong helmet with a letter inside is either a prototype (i.e. if it comes with a prototype figure and/or strong provenance) or lili ledy overstock. The Taiwan helmet is a factory error.

Apologies for the poor quality photo - all my photography stuff and my collection are still in storage. I didn't think to take out a regular production Boushh for a comparison photo.

Anyway, hope this helps the debate Smile
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 15, 2012 2:48 pm

Thanks for your pictures, Oli!! Very Happy

Your figure has one of the two existing Hong Kong moulds (chest strap with only one 'dot' on the front), so it makes perfectly sense that your helmet has a Hong Kong mould too (letter inside). I am happy that there seems to be some consistency in this matter. Very Happy

I agree unpainted helmets with a letter inside (i.e. Hong Kong moulds) are either pre-production items (like yours) or Ledy overstock.

The unpainted helmets withh a mould circle inisde (i.e. Taiwan mould) are probably factory errors or stripped helmets, maybe both.

I think I also need a preproduction helmet now. Very Happy

BTW: I still I like to know what the small helmet is at the far right (pic below). Fake?
Who can help?

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Dia8-4
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 15, 2012 4:01 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:

BTW: I still I like to know what the small helmet is at the far right. Fake?

I've not encountered one that small before. Could it be possible that is was chemically or heat stripped & a reaction with the plastic caused some shrinkage? That may also explain why the plastic is harder.
If it was a repro, I would have expected there to be a lot of them around.
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 27, 2012 3:34 am


I've just seen one on eBay, the seller has it listed at 220 euros.

This is madness!!!!

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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 27, 2012 4:27 am

@walkie wrote:

I've just seen one on eBay, the seller has it listed at 220 euros.

This is madness!!!!

And its a stripped one like 99% out there!
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 27, 2012 6:43 am

Here's the unpainted "stripped" helmet i mentioned two posts up....

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 WYMDC
UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 SkLHN
UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Y1rRW
UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Gcfvb

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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 27, 2012 7:38 am

And here's another....

However this one may be split but i can't see the 'bubble' on the top normally caused by stripping.

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 2E8Dh

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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 27, 2012 9:06 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:

BTW: I still I like to know what the small helmet is at the far right (pic below). Fake?
Who can help?

UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Dia8-4

I recently found this helmet among a forgotten stash, which appears to have a similar size & appearance to your 'miniature' one. Mine is soft though.
(photographed next to a HK example).
[img]UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Dscn5731[/img]

What do you think?
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walkie
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walkie

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UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 27, 2012 9:27 am

Could anybody explain what the yellow helmets are?

A different plastic colour or faded orange ones?

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Dr Dengar
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UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 27, 2012 9:31 am

Yellow helmet.

Faded IMO.

Steve: interesting pic with the smaller helmet!
Any background on the pic?
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!! - Page 2 I_icon_minitime

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