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 UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!

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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:54 am

Ok thanks!

So there are the following moulds for the Boushh helmet:

Taiwan:
V1: mould circle inside, W/O height difference
V2: mould circle inside, WITH height difference

Hong Kong:
V3: small letter inside, height difference

Do you agree?

Then we end up with something like this for the production helmets:







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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:27 pm


After dealing with the different production moulds, let's go back to the topic of this thread: unpainted helmets.

First there is a Hong Kong type unpainted helmet: the Lili Ledy overstock helmet. A comparison was made to Ledy and Kenner production helmets (also Hong Kong type) in the pics below.







To me it is pretty convincing that the unpainted helmet is Ledy overstock. It has the same colour as the Ledy production helmet (which differs from the colour of the Kenner helmet). Moreover there are no signs of paint stripping. The surface of the helmet is very smooth and glossy.

What do you think?
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:52 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:



To me it is pretty convincing that the unpainted helmet is Ledy overstock. It has the same colour as the Ledy production helmet (which differs from the colour of the Kenner helmet). Moreover there are no signs of paint stripping. The surface of the helmet is very smooth and glossy.

What do you think?

Very thorough Marco and well illustrated Smile

@aussiejames wrote:
"is it matt and a bit more yellowish (dull orange) compared to a HK helmet? Does it have a mould circle inside?"
yes,yes & yes & came with my brown plastic molded torso Taiwan variant.

My brown plastic torso Boushh also had the same helmet with height difference in semi circles and came from a cut card.


Last edited by olisuds on Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:03 pm

@olisuds wrote:


Very thorough Marco and well illustrated Smile

Yes I would agree. IMO the unpainted helmet with lettering is LL overstock


Thanks Oli! Very Happy

That was just the easy part Very Happy. Now comes part 2 which is far less conclusive: Taiwan type unpainted helmets. See the pics below.







The first three unpainted helmets in the pics below have a surface which is less smooth compared to the production helmet. Surely this might indicate to stripping using organic solvents as Wolff pointed out earlier in this thread. In that case they are fakes.
But IF we just for one minute consider the possibility these helmets are authentic. What might they be?

First let's read some meaningful quotes from this RS post: http://forum.rebelscum.com/t904175/#post15081092

@Shane Turgeon wrote:

Well, i'd like to think i can speak with some certainty on the subject as i turned up one of the earliest ones, currently own three of them and have spent a fair bit of time trying to figure out the differences and subtlties of this variation.

By all accounts John, it looks like this is a legitimate example. All 3 of the ones i have have a slightly "dirty" look to them and show no signs that they were ever painted. There are also a couple of other tell-tale signs on yours, such as the large ring on the inside of the helmet that all of the examples i've ever seen have. Plus, the fact that it came from a childhood collection makes it even more likely that, at the very least, it wasn't tampered with.

@Shane Turgeon wrote:

Just an addendum to my post regarding the helmet itself...there are a couple of production variations on even the painted helmets - one with a glossy finish (HK) and one with a duller finish like the unpainted one shown above (Taiwan). All of the unpainted ones that have surfaced are of the duller variety and it's surmised that they all came from the same factory where a batch simply missed the spray op. Now, like i said, that's just the theory, and there's no hard evidence whatsoever to back it up but with all of the known examples matching, i'd say that's the safest bet. No one will know for sure until a MOC example turns up.

It should also be noted that these are not FSs or protos in any way and are simply production errors. I think it's pretty neat variation tho.

@Shane Turgeon wrote:

Most of the FS helmets i've seen are all glossy and not as soft as the unpainted variant,

Spidey_Seth wrote:

The Earth needs to read up on what they call FS or protos, before I knew any better I bought one of these from them and it was described as a first shot prototype, and that was less than a year ago. I still would have bought it from them regardless, but later finding out that what you think is a proto is not, is kind of depressing

@CLONERZ wrote:

I have a first shot leia boussh,and the helmet is painted ,but is diffrent in that the helmet is smaller and much tighter on the figures head than a normal production helmet.It is a very tight squeeze .The colours seem the same to me though.

Back to the question what might the Taiwan unpainted helmets be, stated they are not fake:
  • First shots/prototypes for the Taiwan type helmet? (like the Earth’s Certificate of Authenticity stated for one of the helmets in the pics): Not very likely, reading the quotes above. FS helmets are made from a harder material. Probably the Earth made a mistake here (see also Spidey_Seth’s quote)
  • Unpainted helmets that passed through Quality Control and were carded with the Boushh figure: not very likely as no MOC has shown up sofar.
  • Off specs helmets which got a bit deformed during the injection mould process and which were subsequently collected and kept apart for recycling purposes: I like this explanation the best. It might explain the rougher surface of these helmets. Maybe a factory employer took a few out of the factory and they eventually came in collector's hands. In this case the helmets are off course no production items.
  • ....


The fourth unpainted helmet is very odd. It was sold to me as a prototype for cheap money in 2010. I first realized it has a much smaller size than a regular helmet a few weeks ago. I have no idea what it could be:
  • Unpainted modern helmet?
  • Unpainted Taiwan helmet that shrunk. Can a Boushh helmet irreversibly shrink this way by placing it at a very low temperature for a while (for instance a liquid nitrogen bath). Just a wild guess. Any plastic experts out there?
  • Some other explanation...


unsure

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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Fri May 25, 2012 4:11 pm

I recently bought something for my unpainted helmet fetish Very Happy : Taiwan Boussh with unpainted helmet.

The helmet has a very smooth and glossy surface, the first time that I have seen this for an unpainted Taiwan helmet. All the other loose ones in my collection have a much rougher surface, including Adam's which came with a COA from the Earth (see the previous posts on this page).
Interestingly the Taiwan helmet was AFA graded, so an unpainted Taiwan helmet should have a smooth and not a rough surface according to AFA.... scratch








Hey wait a minute.....that is not a Taiwan helmet....it is a Hong Kong helmet...WTF!!! Shocked

(the helmet has a letter inside, that's why it is the Hong Kong mould)

I am now pretty sure that the helmet is an overstock Ledy helmet, it looks exactly like the other one in my collection (colour, surface, size, and Hong Kong instead of Taiwan mould). Also the guy who sent the figure and helmet to AFA was a serious Ledy collector.

I just don't understand why AFA had it graded with a Taiwan figure? scratch
Well AFA makes far worse mistakes sometimes. So you don't hear me complaining. Not at all! Very Happy
I needed a Taiwan figure anyway, and one can never have too many Ledy overstock helmets, especially for the price I paid.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Still no answers to the questions in the previous post......

Who can give some input here?

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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:04 pm

Marco,

Here are some pictures of my unpainted Boushh first shot prototype with torso moulded in dark brown plastic. The helmet is a Hong Kong issue helmet and has the letter E on the inside.





The figure has COO and copyright markings on it which seems to be common with a lot of Boussh prototypes I have seen however the torso is moulded in dark brown plastic where as all Boushh figures produced in Hong Kong have torsos moulded in tan plastic. It also has a COA from Tom Derby.

I have also seen a first shot Boushh moulded in red and bright orange with a Made in Taiwan COO and the unpainted helmet was very light peach/pink colour. This is the only Taiwan issue helmet that I believe to be a true prototype.

Interestingly enough there is a prototype Boushh helmet cast in grey plastic and painted orange!!

IMO the Hong Kong helmet with a letter inside is either a prototype (i.e. if it comes with a prototype figure and/or strong provenance) or lili ledy overstock. The Taiwan helmet is a factory error.

Apologies for the poor quality photo - all my photography stuff and my collection are still in storage. I didn't think to take out a regular production Boushh for a comparison photo.

Anyway, hope this helps the debate Smile
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:48 pm

Thanks for your pictures, Oli!! Very Happy

Your figure has one of the two existing Hong Kong moulds (chest strap with only one 'dot' on the front), so it makes perfectly sense that your helmet has a Hong Kong mould too (letter inside). I am happy that there seems to be some consistency in this matter. Very Happy

I agree unpainted helmets with a letter inside (i.e. Hong Kong moulds) are either pre-production items (like yours) or Ledy overstock.

The unpainted helmets withh a mould circle inisde (i.e. Taiwan mould) are probably factory errors or stripped helmets, maybe both.

I think I also need a preproduction helmet now. Very Happy

BTW: I still I like to know what the small helmet is at the far right (pic below). Fake?
Who can help?


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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:01 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:

BTW: I still I like to know what the small helmet is at the far right. Fake?

I've not encountered one that small before. Could it be possible that is was chemically or heat stripped & a reaction with the plastic caused some shrinkage? That may also explain why the plastic is harder.
If it was a repro, I would have expected there to be a lot of them around.
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:34 am


I've just seen one on eBay, the seller has it listed at 220 euros.

This is madness!!!!

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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:27 am

@walkie wrote:

I've just seen one on eBay, the seller has it listed at 220 euros.

This is madness!!!!

And its a stripped one like 99% out there!
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:43 am

Here's the unpainted "stripped" helmet i mentioned two posts up....





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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:38 am

And here's another....

However this one may be split but i can't see the 'bubble' on the top normally caused by stripping.


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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:06 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:

BTW: I still I like to know what the small helmet is at the far right (pic below). Fake?
Who can help?



I recently found this helmet among a forgotten stash, which appears to have a similar size & appearance to your 'miniature' one. Mine is soft though.
(photographed next to a HK example).
[img][/img]

What do you think?
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:27 am

Could anybody explain what the yellow helmets are?

A different plastic colour or faded orange ones?

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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:31 am

Yellow helmet.

Faded IMO.

Steve: interesting pic with the smaller helmet!
Any background on the pic?
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:50 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:

Steve: interesting pic with the smaller helmet!
Any background on the pic?

Unfortunately, all I can tell you is that the bag of accessories the helmet was with all came from 'beater' figures, which were among collections I purchased through private sales & auction houses in the UK (I did'nt keep the figure Embarassed ).

Could it have shrunk while cooling?
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:15 pm

Hi all,
before I go into detail, I bought this unpainted helmet from a trusted forum buddy. I told him I was showing the pics on this thread for your opinion and he promised to take it back if it turns out to be fake. So far I'm certain that it's no fake, just not 100% complete sure what exactly it is, unpainted overstock or prototype?

Here are detailed pictures of this helmet, side to side with a painted version (Taiwan).












If resoultion is not good enough for you, the original files are here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/maniac79/sets/72157635247354612/

I think it looks exactly the same as the one in the middle here on this pic from Dr Dengar:


Opinions please?
Thx!
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:43 pm

IMO it looks stripped, as I can see what looks like traces of silver paint. But, please wait for other opinions before contacting the seller.


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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:47 pm

Stripped, you can see grey paint and scratch marks.


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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:52 pm

Well, I wanted it to be the real deal so much that I was blind I guess. Now that you're saying it, it's so obvious. Actually when looking at the helmet with the naked eye, you cannot see it. But taking a closer look at the detailed pictures reveal the grey paint.
Sorry for wasting your time.
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:59 pm

@maniac79 wrote:
Well, I wanted it to be the real deal so much that I was blind I guess. Now that you're saying it, it's so obvious. Actually when looking at the helmet with the naked eye, you cannot see it. But taking a closer look at the detailed pictures reveal the grey paint.
Sorry for wasting your time.
You haven't wasted our time, were all happy to try & help each other! Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:01 pm

Hey Dennis,

Sorry to say this, but I agree with Steve and Stef.

The helmet looks stripped to me. You see some remains of silver paint on different spots
In addition the plastic seems swollen and worn at some places probably due to the organic solvent used to get rid off the silver paint.



Hope this helps to get your refund.
Probably the seller was also not aware of these issues.
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:04 pm

@cantina_patron wrote:

You haven't wasted our time, were all happy to try & help each other! Very Happy 
That's what we are a community for, happy to help you, Dennis! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:11 pm

You are right, that's why I said it came from a trusted forum buddy - he really thought it was legit and I thought so too at first, my eyes are not the best, that may also be an issue, but even with glasses it looked OK to me in hand. But I'm also really very poor at telling variants apart I must admit. Then I took the pics and didn't look closely at them myself as up to this point I was certain that it is OK. :I am stupid:
I already have one unpainted helmet in my collection, now I feel like I have to dig it up and take photos of that one too... affraid 

Btw, if anyone wants to sell their unpainted Boushh helmets, let me know. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: UNPAINTED LEIA BOUSHH HELMET HELP!!   Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:39 pm

Dennis, always glad to help. I've been in your situation many times most recently with a fake painted dart tri-logo fett.

It's great to know there's plenty of great guys here to watch your back.

Wink

Ps I'll send you those photos later this week.


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