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 Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing

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aussiejames
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:45 am

"What if one factory ran out of pigment due to poorly planning and .." then it's a factory error not a variant Wink
I do think the green haired madine is a variant. AFA do- but they've graded green limbed chewbacca & purple smock's all this can be put down to a certain 'incidents' in production. To me light limbed Boba, yellow paint not a variant but a 'version' Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:48 am

@aussiejames wrote:
"What if one factory ran out of pigment due to poorly planning and .." then it's a factory error not a variant Wink
I do think the green haired madine is a variant. AFA do- but they've graded green limbed chewbacca & purple smock's all this can be put down to a certain 'incidents' in production. To me light limbed Boba, yellow paint not a variant but a 'version' Razz

True it wouldn't be a true variant, but it would be legit Razz
I haven't seen green limbed chewbacca unless this is what you mean.



To me this looks like heavy yellowing on arms and legs, where the chemicals where mixed wrong. But I can of course be wrong. But there are traces of brown in it, which seems to have been overpowered.
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:59 am

Yeah that's the fella. It was a specific batch error, maybe like the green limbed Hammerhead?? Still fun to have in a collection ( just not for a premium $$ )
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:01 am

It does look rather funny Smile Chewbacca is one of my all time favorites.

Edit: I agree on madine, I have 2 green haired madines at moment and they have the exact same green color, Wampa got another one also with same green color.
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:28 am

I've seen faded limb HK Fetts in baggies but never on cards, maybe the bubbles are more resistant?
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:38 am

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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:44 am

@aussiejames wrote:

Thats one good looking son of a boba :Drool:

I would like to add that the shoulder pads look good and orange to me and not yellow. Also the bubble is not yellowed.
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:25 am

faded or light limb variant?
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:27 am

Embarassed Embarassed So that would appear to be proof that they left the factory with lighter limbs, surely the bubble would yellow first
Also isn't that a taiwan fett?
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:29 am

Guess one could speculate endlessly on this subject but here are some more speculations.


On my most likely tri-logo boba since I know it's story and where it was bought. The "torso" is the same color as the limbs where the other I don't remember what it is, probably hong kong, is a much bluer color all over. What if this could be left over torsos and new arms and legs, resulting in that color difference of torso and legs on the "faded" bobas. I know they sent parts to other factories and this could be a result of that. Since there is a large number of these lighter HK bobas, that would mean a large number of parts where wrong, and would you use them or throw them away? I would have used them Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:51 am

I've seen many faded HK fetts in bubbles. Usually they're on ESB cards with clear bubbles.
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:54 am

Edit- I am going mad Laughing

I got all excited thinking there was a Hong Kong Black belt, then realised it was Taiwan then realised I even had one :I am stupid: lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:22 am

If exposed to sun I would think that the bubbles would get yellowed too. If there are many carded of these with clear bubbles, they probably are not sun faded.

From Landos Locker. Hope he don't mind.


For fading I think this is to close in color. I would rather think that the light blue ones yellow easily and that is what causes the belief in sun faded. Since it would make an ugly combination of yellow and gray color.
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:32 am

My 5 cents:

Some paint colours are produced by a combination of different pigments: green (yelow+blue), orange (red+yellow), purple (red+blue). .Each pigment within a paint has a different vulnerability towards chemical degradation and degradation by UV/visible light (photobleaching).

So during time, the absolute and relative amounts of the pigments in a paint will change, causing:
  • a less intense colour (fading)
  • a different colour


This little theory is not the absolute truth, but at least it can explain a lot of the observed colour changes within figures. That's why I like to stick to it unless someone comes with a better theory. Very Happy
  • green (=yellow + blue) to blue (Prune Face limbs): yellow fades away, blue remains.
  • orange (=red + yellow) to yellow (Boba Fett patches): red fades away, yellow remains
  • brown (= red + yellow + blue) to green (Chewbacca limbs, Yoda snake): red fades away, yellow + blue = green remains : GREEN LIMBS + GREEN SNAKE
  • dark blue to light blue (Boba Fett limbs): blue fades away
  • .... and many other examples, I am sure


Sorry this post seems so seriously, its my dark side. Very Happy



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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:57 am

But if it's fading how do you explain that most of the faded bobas still have orange color and not the yellow? My trilogo boba even have darken orange then the other.

And by looking at that chewbacca, it might be some sort of oxidation if a metal was used in the paint, that cause the green color, but it just looks like strong yellowing to me.
I have done pretty much experimenting on yellowed items even payed a lot to get some, because for some reason there seem to be a lot of people who want these yellow/brown figures, and I have also read about it a lot. And it starts at yellow - turns green - turns dark brown and then close to black. The discoloration looks different depending on what color it is originally, but if treated it turns back to the normal color. This is hard plastic, the rubbery material have never given me good result.

The chewbacca does not look like it have faded, but instead yellowed or gone through the oxidation that usually happens on gold paint. I would be very interested in what happens if I treat on of these chewbaccas.


Btw Grats on post 1000! :clap: celebrate


Edit:
Found this auction, bit suspicious prune face, but I'll see if I can get that boba cheap, it looks beaten up but kept color. It and prune face will then spend the rest of the year outdoors.


Last edited by Rawlin on Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:14 pm

The MOC is from Coco's (landos locker) for sale some time ago- it is faded limbs. The bubble does not have to yellow & sunlight has nothing to do with degredation. Not all Chewbacca's will turn green .......

EDIT- decay/discoloration from age is a better description. Fading is not always the result ie. my Tri fett that is darker. They did not leave the factory like this.


Last edited by aussiejames on Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:22 pm

@aussiejames wrote:
The MOC is from Coco's (landos locker) for sale some time ago- it is faded limbs. The bubble does not have to yellow & sunlight has nothing to do with degredation. Not all Chewbacca's will turn green .......

Thats what I mean, sloppy mixture of flame resistant chemicals. Don't remember what they are called. Would cause just some to discolor. Though it's just my speculations, I like this subject. Sun can not be the bad guy in this case, unless some bubbles do not yellow. Also cardbacks can get faded. Paper fade pretty easily what I know.

I've read about oxygen, but still it's strange in my eyes. I think they are light blue Razz


Edit: Found a pruneface among the stash I was gonna put up cheap in the webshop. It got an even color of blue/greenish like the one pictured earlier, and the "torso" is green. Wish I had one that still had the green color. But this should become an even weaker color if fading more then. Since it still got a hint of green in it.

So this is the guy, number 1. He will endure a weather close to Hoth temperatures after the summer is over unless results by then. I will try to get a regular on too.
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:48 pm

Good discussion guys, I like it.


@Rawlin wrote:
But if it's fading how do you explain that most of the faded bobas still have orange color and not the yellow? My trilogo boba even have darken orange then the other.
Cause it might be that the blue pigment on Boba's limbs degrades faster - resulting in faded limbs - than the red pigment on his patches - which therefore stay orange.

Different pigments have a different vulnerability towards light induced and/or chemical degradation, two processes which both result in fading of colours. The extent to which a pigment is prone to fading depends on the chemical structure of the pigment and the direct chemical ''environment'' which can accelerate reactions and therefore makes things worse. Think about the presence of plastifiers, or free radicals (these are 'molecules' which are chemically very unstable and tend to react with everything in their immediate surroundings. BTW: Radicals can be produced spontaneously from the flame retardants you mentioned a few times).

@Rawlin wrote:

The chewbacca does not look like it have faded, but instead yellowed or gone through the oxidation that usually happens on gold paint. I would be very interested in what happens if I treat on of these chewbaccas.
The green limbs are IMO caused by degradation of the red pigments within the brown paint. Why? Cause you end up with limbs which are green (yellow + blue pigments ''overrule'' the red pigments) and have a less intense ("faded") colour as there is less total pigment.

If the green limbs were caused by yellowing of the plastic, I also would expect to see green limbs, that's true. But the green would be much more intense, as intense as the original brown.
I can not exclude the metal oxidation theory here. But I would expect to see something like that for metallic paints. For instance – like you mentioned - the Leia Gold neck paint tuning green.

@Rawlin wrote:

The discoloration looks different depending on what color it is originally, but if treated it turns back to the normal color. This is hard plastic, the rubbery material have never given me good result.

I don't know exactly what you mean by reversing the colour.It would be interesting to know what kind of results you achieve with your treatments.

In general: Fading of pigments is caused by light and/or chemical reactions.
Fading of pigments can not be reversed, we are talking irreversible chemical reactions. It is like rebuilding burnt trees from their ashes.

Like fading, yellowing is also caused by light and/or chemical reactions. The nature of yellowing is different however. During yellowing chemical reactions happen within the plastic (not the dyes!) yielding new molecules which absorb blue light (and therefore seems yellowish).

Yellowing can be reversed by strong oxidizing agents like hydrogenperoxide or bleach. Basically you destroy the newly formed molecules which absorb the blue light. You end up with a bright white figure. However by doing so, the plastic is exposed to some aggressive oxidizing agents, thereby laying the seeds for (even more) future yellowing. On different fora, I have seen pictures of yellow Stormtroopers becoming minty white after a peroxide bath. Always amazing to see, but I would like to see pictures of the same treated Stormtroopers 2 years later. The treatment might be worse than the illness in this case.


@Rawlin wrote:

Btw Grats on post 1000! :clap: celebrate

Thanks! Very Happy
I just noticed that I apparently joined the Dark Side now (Sith Apprentice), which is a good thing actually, I don't want to turn into a Jedi. Twisted Evil


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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:02 pm

I am well aware of that the yellowing affect the plastic and not the paint. I can not say how it will look in two years, but as you can see on the sand-wing Razz is that the result before is pretty much a goner anyway and I guess I will see in 2 years, it's soon gone one year since treatment and that last picture, where I did some finally successful transparent stickers and took a new picture.

The progress of the X-Wing can be seen here http://www.leksaksdoktorn.se/portfolio_item.php?ID=3 and even now after soon a year it is still minty white, none of the other stuff I have tested have turned back to yellow yet. So I guess we will see. I have read a lot of different theories about the yellowing including the 2 guys that came up with the technique many years back for atari computers and reversing the yellowing effect with hydrogen peroxide and uv-light and some more stuff.

What I meant with the orange color, if you look on the bobs on the picture from Landos locker, notice the paint differences, and they are still strong. If this boba that fades also turn from orange to yellow, mine should have and also those, none of them are yellow imo. I also saw a non faded with yellow paint somewhere today, can't remember where.


I got a Leia that have gone through oxidation and though not much paint left on it, also I got a Golden Girl that have suffered from this. I will post pictures for you.

If anyone got a spare Chewbacca green limb in sucky condition I could use a donation Razz

Ok so here is first up Dragon Queens bracelet


And Leia. The gold paint have turned almost black.


Don't worry about the Jedi part, I think it's a higher rank so you will get there eventually anyway Razz

And here is another trilogo boba Razz http://cgi.ebay.com/Child-Boba-Fett-standard-/400232019472?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d2faff610

Newer bobs also got the light blue
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Star-Wars-Boba-Fett-MOC-Figure-1-2-Circle-Variant-/200634672610?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb6c225e2
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:50 am

Okay so what do you guys think of this green torso Bob Very Happy ?

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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:02 pm

Hehe Razz it's yellowed at torso Smile still it's amazing the limbs is blue.

Btw, thanks for posting those pictures, it strengthen the theory that they mixed the chemicals wrong on just some parts. otherwise the head and limbs would for sure also have yellowed. The torso is also the harder plastic.

Quote :

The MOC is from Coco's (landos locker) for sale some time ago- it is faded limbs. The bubble does not have to yellow & sunlight has nothing to do with degredation. Not all Chewbacca's will turn green .......

EDIT- decay/discoloration from age is a better description. Fading is not always the result ie. my Tri fett that is darker. They did not leave the factory like this.

So is there a large amount of darker blue trilogo bobs? or is it just the Meccano? Because if there is 100 light blue and 1 dark blue I wouldn't take that as proof that all where dark blue.
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:03 pm

@bootyhunter wrote:
Okay so what do you guys think of this green torso Bob Very Happy ?


I agree with Claes (finally Very Happy). Just by fading alone the blue will never turn green. So it is the combination of yellowed plastic and the blue paint giving rise to a green torso. Cool figure!

The limbs are not affected cause apparently the different (softer) plastic used for the limbs is more resistant to yellowing compared to the torso plastic. This is due to the different ''chemical environment" of the plastic molecules in the softer plastic (for instance there are more plastifiers making the plastic more flexible). It has nothing to due with wrong mixing IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:12 pm

I have seen limbs yellowed where the torso is not. etc, but it's true that the hard plastic yellow more easily. But that has a pretty high amount of yellowing, I think even if more resistant they should have at least some yellowing. And that's why I think they mixed in more shit in the torso when mixing the plastic on that one.

Edit: Though it's not in all cases that the torso yellow first, on most of my stormtroopers yellowing have started on the limbs, and my childhood luke have yellowed limbs.

This is a bit interesting read
http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/189
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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:11 pm

Here's my light limb Boba, the limbs are more grey than blue. I've always classed it as a variation, the only thing is, the apparently huge scope of how light the limbs are, which of course would swing toward fading. Who knows?



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PostSubject: Re: Boba Fett Loose variant – In depth discussion about discoloration and yellowing   Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:34 pm

That's the craziest one I have seen so far. Is it almost white? On the first two pictures it looks slightly yellowed but not on the last one where it looks more like white.

I like how bright the colors are, it's like it got stronger colors then the other especially the red both on helm and hand.

I forgot to mention the green. Do you know the background story of this figure?
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