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 Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.

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TeekSolo
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:06 am

A heavily discoloured Luke which nicely shows the extreme colour change the pink of the hands and neck can undergo.


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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:05 am

Another example of limb yellowing, no damage to the torso this time although I'm not sure why someone removed most of the paint. There is also some discolouration to the cape hooks where someone had glued the skirt in place.



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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:50 pm

@Lobotic wrote:






Cool. Thanks for sharing. That's the most bizarre colour change I think I've seen. Never heard of the gold trim turning white  unsure


@TeekSolo wrote:
A heavily discoloured Luke which nicely shows the extreme colour change the pink of the hands and neck can undergo.




Thanks for sharing. Wow, that's quite a sun or heat-damaged Luke - even his face looks blistered! Yes, you're right about the hands and neck and you can still see the remaining pink flesh colour on the back of his neck where he was less exposed to sunlight (or wearing a high factor sun cream Smile ).

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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:35 pm

Artoo_Detour wrote:
@Lobotic wrote:




Thanks Artoo,  I didnt think much of it until I read this thread and noticed not to much gold degrading, I no I keep saying it but he does look good, has anybody got any ideas why yet? Could of been temp? Or oxygen? Just chucking anything out there  unsure

Also the weirdest thing took ages (approx year) togo blue, ( approx 4 months blue-light blue and then after about 6 months its white and stopped?
I will put some daytime pics on tommorrow Very Happy


Cool. Thanks for sharing. That's the most bizarre colour change I think I've seen. Never heard of the gold trim turning white  unsure


@TeekSolo wrote:
A heavily discoloured Luke which nicely shows the extreme colour change the pink of the hands and neck can undergo.




Thanks for sharing. Wow, that's quite a sun or heat-damaged Luke - even his face looks blistered! Yes, you're right about the hands and neck and you can still see the remaining pink flesh colour on the back of his neck where he was less exposed to sunlight (or wearing a high factor sun cream Smile ).
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:26 pm

Man took me a while to figure out what you had added as you put it within the quote. I copied it below.

"Thanks Artoo, I didnt think much of it until I read this thread and noticed not to much gold degrading, I no I keep saying it but he does look good, has anybody got any ideas why yet? Could of been temp? Or oxygen? Just chucking anything out there unsure

Also the weirdest thing took ages (approx year) togo blue, ( approx 4 months blue-light blue and then after about 6 months its white and stopped?
I will put some daytime pics on tomorrow"


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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:34 pm

Now to answer the question. I have no idea the true cause. Degradation is thought the be a product of environment. This would mainly be exposure to temperature change, light, and air. What caused the paint to change from one color to another is some sort of break down on a chemical level, what created that breakdown specifically I don't know.

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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:56 pm


Oops didnt think to use the reply!! So just old paint having a bad reaction as normal lol.

You always have the answer trappedtexan thanks buddy Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:12 pm

Bryan (TraptT) thought I should post pics of Luke Bespin.
He's a blonde, darkish boots. I always thought he came off a Tri-Logo card.

U guys will tell me... The discoloured one is on the left, tho the brown haired Luke on the right has started to go in parts.
Then there are two photos of 'funny' Luke.
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:22 pm

Here they are...
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:19 am

Damn those limbs are almost white!

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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:39 am

I think I have a Luke Bespin which shows the early stages of the discolouration shown on yours.

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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:02 am

Yeah, certainly looks like it...
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:18 pm

Great looking lukes both!! And teeks early stages luke answers perfectly Very Happy

Can I ask you both a question, did you get the bespin lukes already like that or did the process happen after you got them, just interested on how quick etc study
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:35 pm

Hey mark, sorry for not replying sooner...

I THINK, I got the blond Luke Bespin on Tri-logo card, (from my Liverpool Na) back in 1984. Sure it wasn't like that when new? Sorry, I don't usually remember what I did last week, let alone 30 odd years ! unsure

Brown Luke Bespin, around 2002 from friend / non-collector. I'm sure it had already started to discolor, but has faded more over time. Both figures used to be displayed in a bedroom, but natural sunlight blocked out by wooden blind on window.
Hope that helps
Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:10 pm

Mark I've only had mine for around a year and it was like that when I got it. I haven't noticed any further degrading since.
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:28 pm

Sorry, just saw this. Yeah I asked for that Luke bespin to be posted here. I have seen lots of discolored and faded and seen the Luke limbs go darker and lighter, but do t recall ever seeing one almost go white. That was for sure one that belonged here.

Cool to see one in progress also.

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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:59 pm

Thanks guys,Sorry not got back sooner, been a bit busy lol, I missed this, thanks for the info I like to log this kind of stuff :I am stupid:
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:04 am

A little Pruneface comparison shot. The one in the middle can't decide which side to be on. Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:56 pm

@TeekSolo wrote:
A little Pruneface comparison shot. The one in the middle can't decide which side to be on. Laughing



The one in the middle is the same as the one on the right from the torso up I think or very similar? So this surely means its just the legs that are different and that makes me think they are just overstocked parts that were used up? Am I right or way off I dont think its discoloration scratch

I like trying to answer things like this it help with the learning process study maybe Trappedtexan will step in? ?
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:25 pm

@Lobotic wrote:


The one in the middle is the same as the one on the right from the torso up I think or very similar? So this surely means its just the legs that are different and that makes me think they are just overstocked parts that were used up? Am I right or way off I dont think its discoloration scratch

I believe it's generally accepted that the colour difference is due to the degradation of the pigments within the plastic. This means it's not due to environmental factors such as sunlight or heat so the torso shouldn't be affected by changes in the legs. I guess the middle figure is a mix of stock so one leg has changed over time while the other is pretty much as it was. I could be completely wrong with this though. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:54 pm

@TeekSolo wrote:
@Lobotic wrote:


The one in the middle is the same as the one on the right from the torso up I think or very similar? So this surely means its just the legs that are different and that makes me think they are just overstocked parts that were used up? Am I right or way off I dont think its discoloration scratch

I believe it's generally accepted that the colour difference is due to the degradation of the pigments within the plastic. This means it's not due to environmental factors such as sunlight or heat so the torso shouldn't be affected by changes in the legs. I guess the middle figure is a mix of stock so one leg has changed over time while the other is pretty much as it was. I could be completely wrong with this though. Laughing

Ah so what were saying about the middle is the same, it is overstock yay got that right? And I get it now with the degradation the first 3 legs are good ( bright green) and last 3 legs are faded (bad pigments)? Sounds right? Maybe Trappedtexan will clarify Wink

I didnt know if there were legs made with the dull green thats why I didnt think it was degradation doh  rookie mistake lol!!
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:24 pm

It is just degradation of the plastic. The way these were made was a batch of plastic and colorized is placed in a hopper and melted and mixed. The legs are stamped out and dropped in a bin. This creates differences in batch to batch mixes. So for example. They make 100 legs with batch 1, then to keep going they make 100 legs with batch 2, then 100 legs with batch 3 and so on. The legs of batch 1,2, and 3 are all dumped into a giant bin for the legs, so the legs of batch 1 mix with batch 2 and 3. This means you can get different plastic mixes within factory variance all mixed together. The worker just grabbed the two legs they needed on top so they don know, which one is from which batch. At the time these were made, the plastic mix was done roughly the same, but environmental causes, and small differences in chemical composition came into play for long term.

Imagine baking a cake. If you bake it using the recipe it may turn out one way, using the same recipe but doing it in a more humid environment or using an older batch of baking soda, or using super that got wet, or whatever it may turn out different. Even mixing can cause differences. With the baking example, if you cream the butter and sugar together nested of melting the butter and mixing it as a liquid, you get a slightly different crumb texture. If you add one teaspoon to much baking powder or soda or whatever you have changed the outcome. Factory specifications give room for variance based on the human element, so the product looks the same, but in terms of the plastic you have changed the way it will react or the way the plasticizers will leach out of it or the way it will hold up.

You have to remember that in the long term these were toys, not really collectables. In fact when these were made, action figure collecting was not a major hobby. There were some sure, but it wasn't mainstream. Toys were made for children, not adults. Star Wars changed the way toys were looked at in a big way.

They wouldn't be called "overstock" though. This is a term designated to factory unused stock (usually found in lili Ledy line but can be in Kenner). These are simply batch variations not to be confused with figure variations. These were not meant to be this way, nor did they leave the factory in this way. Figure variations are actual variations in the color made consciously during production. Meaning the figure did leave the factory this way.

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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:38 am

@trappedtexan wrote:
It is just degradation of the plastic.  The way these were made was a batch of plastic and colorized is placed in a hopper and melted and mixed.  The legs are stamped out and dropped in a bin.  This creates differences in batch to batch mixes.  So for example.  They make 100 legs with batch 1, then to keep going they make 100 legs with batch 2, then 100 legs with batch 3 and so on.  The legs of batch 1,2, and 3 are all dumped into a giant bin for the legs, so the legs of batch 1 mix with batch 2 and 3.  This means you can get different plastic mixes within factory variance all mixed together.  The worker just grabbed the two legs they needed on top so they don know, which one is from which batch.  At the time these were made, the plastic mix was done roughly the same, but environmental causes, and small differences in chemical composition came into play for long term.  

Imagine baking a cake.  If you bake it using the recipe it may turn out one way, using the same recipe but doing it in a more humid environment or using an older batch of baking soda, or using super that got wet, or whatever it may turn out different.  Even mixing can cause differences.  With the baking example, if you cream the butter and sugar together nested of melting the butter and mixing it as a liquid, you get a slightly different crumb texture.  If you add one teaspoon to much baking powder or soda or whatever you have changed the outcome.  Factory specifications give room for variance based on the human element, so the product looks the same, but in terms of the plastic you have changed the way it will react or the way the plasticizers will leach out of it or the way it will hold up.  

You have to remember that in the long term these were toys, not really collectables.  In fact when these were made, action figure collecting was not a major hobby.  There were some sure, but it wasn't mainstream. Toys were made for children, not adults.  Star Wars changed the way toys were looked at in a big way.

They wouldn't be called "overstock" though.  This is a term designated to factory unused stock (usually found in lili Ledy line but can be in Kenner).  These are simply batch variations not to be confused with figure variations.  These were not meant to be this way, nor did they leave the factory in this way.  Figure variations are actual variations in the color made consciously during production.  Meaning the figure did leave the factory this way.


I knew you would explain this for me!!! Thanks Bryan bow

not only am i really hungry now lol! but i totally get the factory process now...i get the overstock now (being LL/kenner) because i guess these were more mold/stamp differences and nothing to do with degradation (unless they are degraded).

So the degraded legs are just poorly mixed plastics or not as strong of a mix etc etc causing pigments to die quicker than others and of course like you mentioned the surroundings/conditions also play a part-who knows where or what these figures have been through just look at Tiggy lol! .

Can i be a real pest and ask another question please?? When are you writing a book for us all to refer to scratch scratch Stormie Smiley Stormie Smiley
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:13 pm

A white fur Chirpa that looks like he's had a spray tan but forgot to remove the hood.  Laughing



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