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 Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.

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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:56 am

aussiejames wrote:
There is a 'freaky' gold version

Maybe that is the pure gold version. Very Happy

These are paint stripped C-3POs?

If Yes, it seems that the factories just took any colour of plastic which was available at the moment of production. Or maybe the left overs (sprues) of previous production runs were used? unsure

I don't know whether the pigments in the plastics could interfere with the gold paint. We need some plastic experts here.




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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:21 am

The c-3po "Terrys" version I think may well be a legitimate variant as here is my all gold baggie -



& antoher one I have that is distinctly silver -


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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:23 am

Yes they are all paint stripped C3PO s. Some R2 domes also have different coloured plastic, I guess it was the factory using any left over plastic scratch

The freaky/pure gold version is COO 8


to me it's a variant that is noticeable if you look at the big circle/rings on his chest. In the middle of the circles on most C3POs there is a less defined dot (almost a triangle) on the freaky gold guy it's a perfect small dot within the smallest ring. Frank can you check for this dot please?

edit : http://forum.rebelscum.com/t967209/
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:26 am

I want your opinions on this guys and then I'll tell you the back story on this one.



I iknow you cant see it real clearly since the macro on my camera isnt functioning, but yes, that is orange.
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:37 am



While this may seem obvious, believe it or not I have seen people say "is this a variant"..


The yellow (or in extreme cases orange) cardigan 8D8.
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:30 am

Next time he will get out of the armour before he uses the bathroom. lol! Hate to say it, but that actually looks cool like that.
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:39 am

Lol! There was one that was literally bright orange once and he looked like he was wearing a life jacket!

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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:19 pm

Maybe not a true variant but I like her more than an orange hair Luke farmboy. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:55 pm

Chris: What about that AT AT driver? Are the orange emblems, faded red emblems?

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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:18 pm

They are. That figure was on the back porch for 3 months. I was going to do a week by week pix on it, but I messed up and did it during the fall, so not much heat on it. But the red paint did go from red to a pinkish color before it went orange. Now that the macro decided to start working all of a sudden, heres a somewhat better shot of it.



Its still not the best, but its actually starting to turn yellowish orange. I actually did this to see how the figure would turn for demostration purposes. Never thought the emblems would turn that color. Very Happy And Im not saying the pink emblems are that either, just that this one did go to a pinkish color before this. But its a possibilty that is what happened. So if anybody happens to see one of these on Ebay as the newest variant, DON'T believe it. Wish I thought about taking a shot of it going pink though. I might flip it over and hit the red on the back of the helmet now and keep an eye on it for updates to this.

Joe, thats an 8D8 I'd love to have in the collection. lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:31 pm

Chris, that's some good research on emblems discoloration!!! :clap:

Keep on the good work and keep us updated.

Maybe you have a beater Chewbacca as well to join AT AT driver in the cold winter nights. Very Happy : Will Chewie turn green?




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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:38 pm

lol! Chewys been done in the Arizona heat. Poor guy turned black. Ill go look for the thread by Mike Scards. Thats where I got the idea from originally. I do have a few beaters left, but nothing with much paint, but I do know where to get some dirt cheap ones. Might pick up a few next time I go to that flea market.

Here it is

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1028926/
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:08 pm

Dr Dengar wrote:
Maybe not a true variant but I like her more than an orange hair Luke farmboy. Very Happy

Orange hair. Hmmmm. No I'll be good. Too easy.

And Joe I love the 8D8.
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:18 pm

That poor Chewie looks pretty carbonized. Very Happy



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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:52 pm

Joe_O wrote:


While this may seem obvious, believe it or not I have seen people say "is this a variant"..


The yellow (or in extreme cases orange) cardigan 8D8.

This is the Custard Slice 8D8 confectionery special right? -

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PostSubject: tossing this thougt out there on Vars..   Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:27 pm

Ive been following the thread here,-- great one, BTW.
So I have a lingering question based on the foundation of the argument when it comes to paint alone.
would not a simple discoloration of paint color- because of the chemical make up or mixture "recipe" of the paint.
be a variant in itself. - Even if that was then unstable and faded off in some instances-
After all this is a variation if the original recipe. yes external factors (sun heat UV cold radiation, proxomity to Galactica figures) ((LOL)) would need some consideration but how much?

for Example- while digging thru a bag of figs recently I found a Han hoth with super greenish tinted legs.
IMO he's not often found with super green legs. there's tan light tan, there's brown and there is dark brown.
It begs the question IMO when is the 'recipe" the variation and when is this not the case.

IMO it is hard to access. but should not be discounted in some cases a a legitimate version due to the fact the "recipe may have been different.
Chewy irrid. bags?

yes fading of the base plastic of the figure itself happens. and this is not a var. Faded green chewys. green limb han bespins, stormys snows, etc etc etc..

but paint color is another issue
In my opinion the list of legitimate vars should be broadened to cover some of these where there is distinct colors of components.

Another example the Luke with orange hair- I think He actually is a degraded toffe- the reason I suspect this is I had
a toffee color i bought a long time ago 15 yrs ago I recently pulled him out of storage and wow he was a lot more orange than last i saw him-- yes its been a while but- darn it hes' pretty orange now.!
I think this is only found in ESB Luke farmboys,
thoughts. ?
best to all
R

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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:52 pm

Hi,

Thanks for chiming in. Very Happy

You are right different batches of figures might be prone to different types of discoloration and give rise to different coloured limbs in the end. Still these are not variants IMO. To be a true variant the figure had to leave the factory with the present off colour appearance thirty years ago. So the colour change needs to be intended. And this is not the case in the examples you give.

Dr Dengar wrote:

Variants vs Degraded figures
Maybe we should restrict the use of the term 'variants' for factory produced figures, which already had their present appearance (paint, sculpt) when they left the factory 30 years ago (hollow tube Tusken Raider, burgundy Squid, blond and brown hair Luke Bespin, etc.).

Then we can call the rest something else. You name it: degraded figures, degradants, mutants, transformants. Personally I like the term 'transformant'.

It is really up to you how you call them, as long as we both understand that we are talking figures which got their present appearance after a visual change during time (green limbed Chewie, yellowed Stormtrooper, etc.). A visual transformation caused by degradation of plastics and/or pigments.

Note: The appearance of a ‘degradant’ might be traced back to the exact composition of (a specific batch of) factory used materials (plastic, paint) in combination with an used mould, COO. Still that doesn’t make them true variants IMO.
- Example 1: Take the green limbs Chewie for instance. I am not an expert on this, but I think he was found only with certain COOs. So probably the green limbs Chewie can be traced back to a factory which used batches of brown plastic with a (slightly) different composition in which the red pigment was more prone to degradation, giving rise to green limbs after 30 years. Still this figure is a transformant not a true variant IMO. Why? Cause he did not leave the factory with green limbs thirty years ago.



About the orange hair Luke farmboy. It would be very interesting to see pictures of the discolored toffee hair turning into orange.
Is it a strong pumpkin orange like true OH Luke farmboys have, or a less intense orange?
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:00 am

IMO many/most of the paint differences are not from a 'recipe' change but are from the paint being exposed to unusual environmental conditions like you mentioned. ie. spending some time in back yard dirt/soil ...... changes after production do not count, hence when I read "would not a simple discoloration of paint color" I automatically say- no variant. There are a few exceptions where certain variants have traits ( ie light limb Boba...) so I can see why there is always going to be some confusion. AT-AT driver emblems for example- orange, red, pink for me is stretching it unless it corresponds to COO.

ANH Luke orange hair is a variant not just from his hair colour, but to me for the 'rough hair patch' same as the 'true' dark brown hair Luke sharing the same leg markings ( the 'aussie' orange hair is another story)

If we can safely say degarded plastic is not a variant neither is degraded paint? If the different 'recipe' argument is used for paint it could be used for plastic to legitimise variants. ie. this batch of plastic (variant recipe) has resulted in green limb chewie....

Everyone will have there own definition of a variant it will never be clearcut. For me there are enough 'true' variants as there is. I look at leg markings (COO) , specific mold differences, and then paint apps in that order. Then it is 'legitimised' by having a duplicate or seeing another in someone elses collection.
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:44 am

Neon, thats why I posted the pix of the figure up, to show that its not a variant. My experiment with the AT AT Driver was actually to show how the plastic deteriated over time. I never thought about the paint going, not in the original plan. But when I seen how it did turn, I figured it would be good to show what happened with it. You even answered your own question when you said your Luke was deteriating to a different color than it was. Its just after 30+ years things start breaking down and the chemicals are going in reverse. Heres an example I learned doing construction work. Take concrete for instance. When you pour concrete it takes 75 years for it to completely dry. Sure in a day its dry enough to walk and work on, but the chemicals in it dont fully dry until that time. Now, after 75 years, it goes into reverse. So in 150 years, that concrete will go back to its original state, rock and sand. Its the same thing with plastics and paint. It has a drying period and after that period, it goes in reverse. Marco said it best though, if it didnt leave the factory like that, its not a variant.
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:50 am

I hate to throw a fox in among the chickens, but regarding the At At drivers red/orange emblems - I have 2 baggies I got recently, all are in ESB-h style baggies all have been in storage in the same place & all have come from a case of figures from factory overstock & there were both orange & red Logo types (cringe) - variants amongst the batch, so could it be a case that it is in fact a variant "but" the red logo given time & conditions can fade to be the same or similar colour.

Thoughts?




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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:37 pm

could anybody show me a pic from those "orange" hair Luke figures?
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:46 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:21 pm

thx
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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:06 pm

Frank, when you say "in storage", did you mean a storage shed? If so, what kind of temps were in it or was it climate controlled? They look more red/redish pink than orange to me. And from those pix you posted, they look like they are starting to turn already. The shoulder pads and gloves arent white, more a greyish white. Think thats your answer there. The second one is showing it more.



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PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:25 pm

Cold I would think Chris lol! as these are from Canada but from what I understand a where-house find, so your guess is as good as mine bud, & I know they are already starting to yellow a bit, think they were all found in the one case though so its strange that they are discolouring at different rates scratch maybe one from the outside of the box nearer to the cold & possible damp, but I will keep trying Very Happy
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