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 Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016

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The_Dark_Artist
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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 29, 2015 9:19 am

Bryan, hi. That is a case, like the GW Acrlic's large case. It is deeper though. I am uncertain if it came from them.?.? But it is their style. Thanks, I think it looks real nice, displayed like that.
Lets see, I have 1 more piece coming soon. It is a first shot die cast, from the first release, so it will fit in my collection pretty well. Came originally from a Kenner Safety/Integrity Manager. Pretty rare too. I know of mine and 1 other.
For 2016 I am after 1 of 2 things. A first shot Jawa or Luke Skywalker. Last year I bought 10 things. Seems like a small number. This year, will probably be 1 or 2 things, if I am lucky. Otherwise, I am just happy with what I have now : )
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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 29, 2015 9:34 am

That looks very cool displayed in that case cheers

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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon May 30, 2016 10:01 am

New addition at the bottom of page 1 : )

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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon May 30, 2016 4:46 pm

Even though the paint is badly worn on this figure he looks stunning.  The stark white when so many white figures have yellowed over time makes me wonder if the plastic composition is different to that of normal production figures.

Very nice addition to your run.

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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon May 30, 2016 5:19 pm

Thanks Bryan. Yeah, I have been having this conversation all afternoon, regarding his paint. There really is no getting past the paint situation, for most, and it is unfortunate. But thank you for noticing something other then just the paint. Variant collectors might notice mold differences, and there are quite a few. As for the plastic they used, like some of the other early first shots I owned, this plastic does seem slightly different then what you'd see used on a production piece. I have no idea if the composition is different. But it just seems like a harder material and more of a white/pearl color.... if that makes sense : )
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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon May 30, 2016 9:39 pm

Yet another great addition Smile
Ever thought about comparing weights to production figures?
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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon May 30, 2016 10:10 pm

This is funny. Bill McBride and I had a conversation about that. I wrote him and said the Luke first shot felt heavier then a production Luke. I don't have a scale to weigh. So he went and pulled out his Vader prototypes. He weighed them against production Vaders, and sure enough, they weighed more. He sent pics and even posted them on Facebook. I was like please don't break the prototype DT saber Bill, please God protect the prototype saber : ) But yeah, his individually were heavier also. No idea if the material used is slightly different for early first shots, but I would guess it may be.
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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeMon May 30, 2016 11:50 pm

I didn't even think of weight differences. The paint missing really doesn't detract from him in my opinion. It is part of his "story". Very Happy

As usual your prototype run increases and our knowledge base is also increased. This is one of my favorite limelight threads (specifically for the learning factor).

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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 4:54 am

Thanks. I appreciate that.
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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 5:43 am

I remember Bill's Vader(s) being weighed, thought it was proof plastic is worth more than gold!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 4:48 pm

That's a great addition. Congrats Steve. I really like his head/face mould. For me it's a good likeness of Luke FB and somehow reminds me of the head mould for the 12 inch Luke.

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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 5:26 pm

It's really interesting piece. Thanks. It has quite a few crazy mold differences. I talked to Javi and he believes the head resembles a Taiwan. I will post some pics below that are pretty neat. Some of the differences are, his left hand is straight (not sure if this is a mold change, or it was done post injection molding), the right/saber arm is extended far longer, his slot for his saber is too thin (it would need tooling it wider, for a lightsaber to fit in correctly. If you look close at pic 4 below, you can see where they started to widen it with tools, marks still remain.... but for some reason they stopped. On Ben Sheehans you can actually see plastic hanging on those sides where they widened the slot using hand tools), his saber arm is un-cored, in other words, the saber hole is closed and last but not least, he has an odd circle on his back that is on other early first shot Lukes (not sure if it is from a tool or a mold, but it is on Ben Sheehan's early first shot Luke also). He has no coo, no date, is entirely hand painted, and he is glued together, not sonic welded.
Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 Luke1010
Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 Luke910
Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 Luke111
Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 Luke5c10
Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 Luke510

Now, here is Ben's first shot Luke. See the tooling done to the slot? They widened it using hand tools. This was attempted on mine, but for some reason they never completed it. And check out the same circle on the lower back. Exact same area and exact same mark as mine. In fact it is not a perfect circle.
Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 Ben1_210

Really interesting stuff : ) Just thought I'd share.....
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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 5:40 pm

Thanks for the extra pics and info, they're great. The circle on the back is interesting, and yes you're right, close up, you can see it's not a perfect circle. It almost looks hand-etched or scored as it appears to be indented. Wonder what it was for?

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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 6:02 pm

I have run it by quite a few folks. Different explanations from like minded collectors too. It falls right on top of where the connector bits that are inside the torso. I thought possibly a tool to tap it closed after they glued it. But now that we find it on Ben's, it seems likely it was on the mold. One other possibility is it was an ejector pin mark that was built wrong. The ejector pin mark should be left on the inside of a "Luke" torso, not outside. If this is an ejector pin mark, the entire torso mold cavity would have had to be redone. So there are a few interesting ideas of what it is, but not everyone is gonna agree on just one. : )
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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 6:28 pm

I saw that circle and noticed the hand yesterday but didn't mention it. The mark fits with the two piece system for the torso, one side being a large cylinder area (female) and the other torso half having a pin (male) that slides into the female. Odd it is on the outside in this same area. Seems maybe your right with the explanation of a tool used to make sure the male and female parts inside close the gap all the way. This would make the most sense seeing as it isn't sonic welded but glued.

Odd also the saber hole isn't molded yet at this stage. Makes me think to make the saber hole there was some sort of pin that possibly went in when the mold was closed rather than it being a solid part with the mold. I have seen an article where some Luke's in later production, mostly found on trilogo cards, has an issue where the hole is partially closed making it smaller and unable to fit. So if the saber slot was an afterthought maybe it was a separate part from the main mold. Just a thought.

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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeTue May 31, 2016 7:02 pm

Absolutely. The pin needed ajusting, so it could go all the way through.
One interesting thing. i blew up Ben's Luke and it has the same "what looks like" scratches around the circle as mine. Same area, same angles, same everything. I am 100% sure they came from the same mold and I am starting to think the circle was in that mold also. They are just too similar and in just the exact same location for it to be a hand tool. Again, this is really neat stuff.
Ben's is the one in blue and mine is in red. The mold marks/scratches and circle are in the exact same spots.
The mold mark that cuts through the top of the circle around 12 o'clock and the mold marks at the 4 o'clock area of the circle.
Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 Ben1_310
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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 01, 2016 11:32 am

@The_Dark_Artist wrote:
Absolutely. The pin needed ajusting, so it could go all the way through.
One interesting thing. i blew up Ben's Luke and it has the same "what looks like" scratches around the circle as mine. Same area, same angles, same everything. I am 100% sure they came from the same mold and I am starting to think the circle was in that mold also. They are just too similar and in just the exact same location for it to be a hand tool. Again, this is really neat stuff.
Ben's is the one in blue and mine is in red. The mold marks/scratches and circle are in the exact same spots.
The mold mark that cuts through the top of the circle around 12 o'clock and the mold marks at the 4 o'clock area of the circle.
Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 Ben1_310
Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 Luke5c10

Steve I edited these two a bit to show some marks that look identical to me.  On the bottom of the circle it has the same odd angle, the top has a long scratch or some sort of line coming off the circle that looks the same, and the saber channel near the end has the same opening area.   The saber channel inside has been messed with but the area at the end where it kind of bulges out like a circle is the same.  I also think these two would be from the same mold given the similarities here.

Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 Lukebl10
Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 Lukere10

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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 01, 2016 11:40 am

Nice, that's pretty much what I'm seeing too. Gotta be the same mold. So with that information and photographic proof, it almost seems these both came from the same exact mold that was 1. either modified for production later, or 2. the molds were scrapped because of these imperfections. Your guess is as good as mine. But one thing has to be for certain, if they were used for production later, they 100% went under some modifications so these imperfections were fixed. Thanks for the detailed pics Bryan.
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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 01, 2016 12:43 pm

Just re reading some of this thread.  Is your Luke the one in the following group shot?

Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 Wayne_10
Photo: Wayne Thompson

Also, I wasn't aware until looking over your rebelscum thread that you had parted with the Han and Leia. I honestly didn't notice they were gone from the first page until now. Are these two obtainable again? I figured you used them as trade bait, but maybe they exist in higher numbers so you could get first shot representations of them again at some point?

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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 01, 2016 1:24 pm

Bryan, yes, that is my first shot Luke in the awesome collection of Wayne Thompson, from about 10 years ago. The provenance actually dates back before that collection even, being in Tracey Hamilton's first. Steve Hodges was the employee the Luke came from. My first shot Tusken Raider was actually found with the Luke, so it is cool to have them together again. Also, my first shot Stormtrooper is in Wayne's line-up. He got that from The Earth back around 2004.
As far as my Leia and Han. Hmmmmmm, well this is tough to talk about but I am ok with my decisions. Yes, they both are gone. The Leia was a trade for my mock-up Alien. The new owner of the Leia, a very good friend, is happy. And I couldn't be happier displaying the original Kenner presentation mock-up Alien in my collection. As far as finding another Leia, it is possible. I know of around 10 or so first shot Leia's out there. Finding one like the one I once owned, with proto cape and unproduced blaster 2 known, probably will not ever happen. But I stand by my decision. I really love the hand made 1 of a kind Alien. And it looks sweet next to my Alien hard copy.
Ok, now Han. Yes. He is gone also. I sold him to buy something new, that is arriving today. What I'm getting will be a surprise for later, but it was number one on my "would die for list" for many years now : ) There are 8 Han Solo first shots that I know of. This one will be harder to get back. Mostly because I just think everyone loves Han Solo. If there was a piece I had a hard time letting go of, it was this one. BUT, when I post what I got for him later, it may make sense why I sold him. A good friend is the new owner, who is a die hard Han Solo focus collector, so that makes me happy.
After today, I will still have 8 of the first 12, undated/no coo first shots in my collection. I don't plan on trying to complete the first 12 run, because quite honestly I would be adding pieces that I don't love. PLUS, have you seen prices on these lately? They are stupid expensive. : ) So if I pay money for something like one of these, I absolutely have to love the piece. Otherwise it would just be showing off..... and I can't afford to show off like that.
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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 01, 2016 1:44 pm

I hear you on the pricing thing. Someone just asked about prices for han first shots in the vintage chat section and I pointed him your way.
http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t8596-first-shot-han

The protomarket has gone crazy, but really most vintage star wars has these days. I saw a glasslite vlix up on rebelscum for $7500 which is crazy to think they are in that range. I know not long ago I saw one go for around $5000 with a cardback on ebay but that has been 5 or so months now I think. I am just thankful I got what I did at the time I did as I now think I wouldn't be able to afford most of the pieces in my collection and I don't even collect proto stuff. I am not sure I have seen the alien stuff you have? May have on rebelscum, but feel free to add it here also. I think it was a 3 3/4 alien right? Not the larger alien?

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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 01, 2016 2:05 pm

Yes, it is for the 1979 unproduced 3 and 3/4" Alien line. First up, painted hard copy. As far as I know only 2 painted Aliens exist, that have the heads with moving tongue. This was most likely a presentation piece that would have been used at Toy Fair, if the line didn't get scratched.
Second up, original Kenner presentation mock-up Alien. It was the first Alien used to present what the Alien would look like. Created by hand, by a Kenner Designer. It is made out of a Hammerhead, with extensions put in the legs, as stilts. It has a hand made tail, shoulder thingies, and a molded head put on over the decapitated Hammerhead head : )

Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 F10

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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 01, 2016 2:15 pm

Those are both stunning also. This line was never produced? The funko reaction alien would fit in with these guys pretty well. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 01, 2016 2:29 pm

Correct, the 1979 line, from these prototypes were never produced for the 3 and 3/4" size. The modern funko reaction Aliens were based off the original prototypes from 1979. So they are close, but a lot more crude and quite a bit less detail. But still pretty neat : )
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PostSubject: Re: Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016   Concentration On First 12 Pre-production & more 1/2/2016 - Page 13 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 02, 2016 10:10 am

This is why I let go of my Han Solo recently. Hard decision, but absolutely no regrets. Update on page 1 : )

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