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 THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE

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mike-skywalker
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:40 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:

Is there a MOC known? We could check the lighter paint app of the eyes then..

Until last year it was still not proven that these MOC exists until 2 or 3 cardbacks have popped last year.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:35 pm



Thanks Mirco for telling.

Would love to see those 37/41 DSD cardbacks.

On www.starwarsspanishstuff.info the only DSD card which is shown is the Trilogo version.

Which makes me wonder, whether DSDs were released on ESB 45/47 backs and the ROTJ 65 backs?
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:42 pm



I know a collector which has a POCH Death Star Droid in his limelight.

Maybe he can shed some more light on this topic.


Let's try to call him....


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:04 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:

Bryan, thanks for joining! Very Happy

The Kenner figures in my pics have either COO#1 or #2.

Maybe these COOs are linked to different steel moulds, explaining the cheek bump differences? scratch



Bryan, I checked the COOs of the figures in the picture above. Thanks for making the pic. Very Happy

Going from the figure in the middle (bottom) and then counter clock wise they are

COO#1: Figure from Spain
COO#1: Kenner
COO#2: Kenner, with cheeck bump
COO#2: kenner, with cheeck bump
COO#1: Kenner, with cheeck bump

The cheek bump does not seem to be linked to a certain COO. The Spanish figure lacks this bump, but so is the Kenner figure right next to it.


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:28 am

@Kenneth_B wrote:






Please notice that these three Poch Leia Hoth figures are identical (coo, paint etc) but NOT with the same coo as the sample in Wolff's Poch guide. Wolff's sample also has green eye brows in addition, while two of these have brown eyebrows. On the last of them the eye brows are almost gone. I now have had four identical samples of this Leia Hoth variant in my hands - all from different sourches/collections in Spain and, all have the same Poch characteristicas. So are there two different Poch Leia Hoth variants in existance, or are Wolff's and/or my Leia's mixed up figures with Kenner/Poch limbs? Impossible to say for sure of course but with four identical samples found by my hands, I have no doubts, that the Leia Hoth's in these pics are Poch produced.


Today I received a Leia Hoth from Spain which looks very similar as the three figures in Kenneth's For Sale thread.

I started looking for a Kenner Leia having the same COO #2, and was lucky to found one among the few which I own. Accidently it was my Leia Hoth childhood figure, my first Leia ever. As a child I never would have realised that those small letters on the legs could be of any importance one day. Very Happy

Here are the comparison pics:

Leia Hoth, COO #2: Left (Kenner), Right (Figure from Spain).


Leia Hoth, COO #2: Left (Kenner), Right (Figure from Spain).


Leia Hoth, COO #2: Left (Kenner), Right (Figure from Spain).


Leia Hoth, COO #2: Left (Kenner), Right (Figure from Spain).


Leia Hoth, COO #2: Left (Kenner), Right (Figure from Spain).


Leia Hoth, COO #2: Left (Kenner), Right (Figure from Spain).



Compared to her Kenner sister, the Leia from Spain has:
- A face which is cast in a darker coloured ("tanned") plastic
- Pale coloured hips
- Greenish brown boots

The same differences can be observed for the Leia figures in Kenneth's pictures.

Below you see a comparison between the Kenner Leia, Spanish Leia, and two confirmed POCH figures which are described on Wolff´s site: Leia Hoth, and Luke Farmboy

http://swspaceclub.com/wbobafett/poch-variants/leia-hoth/

http://swspaceclub.com/wbobafett/poch-variants/luke-farmboy/

From left to right: 1. Leia (Kenner). 2. Leia (from Spain). 3. POCH Leia. 4. POCH Luke (not a DT saber BTW, just a broken tip Very Happy).



It is clear that the confirmed POCH Leia Hoth is different compared to the other Spanish Leia. They have different COOs (COO #1 vs #2) and corresponding moulds (rough vs smooth emblem is the most obvious difference), and different paint apps on the face.
But there are is also some striking similarity: Both Leias - one of which is a confirmed POCH figure- have the same greenish brown boots. Also the POCH Luke Farmboy has the same boot colours!!

The Spanish Leia also has some factory imperfections, which can be regarded as a bonus on top of the obvious paint differences compared to the Kenner figure. All together these are indications that this Spanish Leia might be a POCH variant as well, like the other confirmed POCH Leia.

I might be completely wrong here, so would like to hear your opinion about this Leia figure.

Would also be good to have pictures of POCH MOCs....



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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:56 pm

Follow up from page 20, where Kenneth and I were discussing a possible POCH Han Hoth:

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t4427p285-the-poch-pbp-discussion-thread

Recently I received another Han from Spain.

In the pictures below he is put on the right side. In the middle you see the Han which was discussed before.











To me the middle and right Han look the same.

"Fat" eye brows: CHECK
Pale hands: CHECK
Pale neck: CHECK
Small belt buckle: CHECK
COO#1: CHECK

So I am 80% sure this is a POCH variant now. Only need MOC proof to confirm now.

BTW: The figure on the far left was obtained from a Spanish childhood collection. He has flesh/pink coloured hands and neck. Looks like a normal Kenner figure which was maybe imported and put on a Spanish card. But maybe you have another opinion?
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:53 am



Below a comparison is made between the Made in Macao (COO#3) and PBP Biker Scout (COO#6). According to Wolff, the no COO scar of the PBP Biker Scout was derived from COO#3 by removing “Macao” (scar in a scar). The Macao Biker Scout on its turn was derived from COO#2 by removing “Hong Kong” and replacing it by ”Macao”.

So it would makes sense that both figures share the same mould characteristics, despite their COO differences as they belong to the same COO family. I was curious and made some comparison pics to check this.
To me it indeed seems that both figures share the same mould characteristics. What do you think?

Biker Scout: Macao (left), PBP (right).


Biker Scout: Macao (left), PBP (right).


Biker Scout: Macao (left), PBP (right).


Biker Scout: Macao (left), PBP (right).




Despite their similarities, both figures still appear quite different. Compared to his Macao brother, the PBP Biker Scout has
- A more detailed (“hard”) torso and head
- Different spay mask used for the “eyes”, pouches on the hip.
- More? (except for the different COOs Very Happy )

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:31 am

Below a comparison is made between two Iggy’s. The one on the right was bought as a POCH figure from Spain, the other is my Kenner childhood figure sharing the same COO.
I was curious whether there were any (paint) differences between the two figures, not counting any factory imperfections.

I see only one difference, but it is a very cool one, making IG-88 even more bad ass than he already is.
Q: Can you see it too?

IG-88: Kenner (left), Figure from Spain (right).


IG-88: Kenner (left), Figure from Spain (right).


IG-88: Kenner (left), Figure from Spain (right).


IG-88: Kenner (left), Figure from Spain (right).




A: The paint used for the "sensors" of the Spanish Iggy is not dull orange but a very vibrant red.

And you know what, it is the exact same paint which is used for the confirmed POCH Bespin Guard!!

Noticing that, that totally made my day. Very Happy






My conclusion therefore: We are looking at a POCH IG-88 here!!
This bad ass Iggy immediately enters my personal top-5 of POCH variants. cheers




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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:01 pm

Love the detective work Marco : ) Bravo!
Also, cool to read about Wolff's knowledge on the MACAO and PBP Biker Scout coo/scars. Very interesting to learn where and how they derived... Thanks to both of you for your hard work!
-Steve
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:04 pm

Hi Dr Dengar,

again you are doing a great job.

here is my little contribution. I am not an expert so you can take your own conclusions.

Here you are my leia hoth.
Always, on the left leia from local -Spain- childhood collection, center (kenner), on the right local -Spain- childhood collection.














What I see:
-Face: kenner face is paler that local figures. they are darker.
-Hair: kenner hair is darker -black- than local figuers -more brownish-. It is hard to see in the pictures but it happens.
-arms and legs in the kenner one is whiter than local figures
-Boots: all 3 have the same color.
-bottom: more "clean" paint layer in the kenner one
-bottom2: no extra mark in the kenner one where the 2 pieces join. Local figures have plastic burr there.
-Hip color: Kenner uses the same body color but local figures use more pale color.

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:52 am


Hey Ricardo,

Thank you very much for chiming in. This discussion is much more fun when others join and share as well.

Your Spanish Leia figure look exactly like the Leia Hoth which I discussed before.

Spanish Leia (left and right). Source: ackbar100


Spanish Leia (right).



I checked your observations, and compared them with my Spanish Leia:


-Face: kenner face is paler that local figures. they are darker. CHECK


-Hair: kenner hair is darker -black- than local figuers -more brownish-. It is hard to see in the pictures but it happens.

COMMENT: When comparing to a Kenner figure having the exact same COO#2, this difference in hair colour is less obvious.


-arms and legs in the kenner one is whiter than local figures. CHECK

COMMENT: The plastic of the arms and legs is slightly off white. Probably this is due to discolouration of the used (batch of) plastic which was used to produce these figures.


-Boots: all 3 have the same color.

COMMENT: If you look closely, it seems that both your Spanish Leia figures have greenish brown boots which are different compared to the brown boots of the Kenner figure. Do you agree?


-bottom: more "clean" paint layer in the kenner one. CHECK


-bottom2: no extra mark in the kenner one where the 2 pieces join. Local figures have plastic burr there. CHECK

COMMENT: These plasctic extrusions at the bottom welding line, are typical POCH imperfections which I consider an extra bonus on top of the paint differences. You see them a lot in POCH figures.
BTW: Now I had to explain my girlfriend why I had a picture on my screen showing the butts of three plastic female figures. Very Happy


-Hip color: Kenner uses the same body color but local figures use more pale color. CHECK




Based upon your info, and Kenneth's picture, I am now 90% sure this Leia Hoth is a POCH variant.

I hope we will see pics of a MOC one day to obtain the final proof.

Cheers





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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:53 am

@The_Dark_Artist wrote:
Love the detective work Marco : ) Bravo!
Also, cool to read about Wolff's knowledge on the MACAO and PBP Biker Scout coo/scars. Very interesting to learn where and how they derived... Thanks to both of you for your hard work!
-Steve

Thank you Steve!

Much appreciated! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:30 am

Hi Marco,

Here you are my comparation between an IG-88 from kenner -normally on the left- and my IG-88 given to me by a good friend with other sw figures :-)

I hope it helps. Everybody is free to take their own conclusion. This just a comparision.













What I see:
-Different plastic type
-Many "bubbles" on plastic -head and leg- in the local -Spain- figure
-Different type of eyes. Kenner figure have small holes but not the local one.
-Bad paint layer application on head -orange color-
-The black "belt" has not been painted in one area in the local figure
-Plastic extrusion at the bottom welding line in the local one. Kenner hasn't it.


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:10 am

I would also be very inerested in opinions on the IG-88 above.
I have a very similar one with bubbly texture to the head & limbs (COO #6 & purchaed in the UK) that I posted pictures of here: http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t4078-figure-of-the-week-threadig-88
If more pics of my example are required I'm happy to take some.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:38 am


Thanks for sharing those pics, Ricardo. Very Happy

Steve, I had totally missed that COO#6 Iggy in the FOTW thread. Good that you didn't. Very Happy

Can you make some close ups pls (head, bottom).

Both figures seem to be very similar,and maybe they are just the same.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:28 pm

Here are some quick snaps (I hope they help with the discussion).
My Iggy appears to differ from Ricardo's in terms of having no burr on the bottom. I'm not sure the precission of the paint application on the head is too important as I have seen Kenner figures with good & bad paint apps.
I was under the impression that the texture to the soft plastic forming the head & limbs was an indication of it being a late produced figure cast from a worn mold?
What do you guys think?
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:52 pm

yes, Steve. Yours and mine are very similar and I agree with your comments about the differences.

I am really sorry but I am not able to give you an explanation about the bubbly parts. Regarding how those figures can be found in 2 different countries, I suppose they were produced in one country and exported to other countries where they were packed.

I double confirm that my figure was given to me by a friend with other interesting sw figures like a leia bespin poch with original cape :-) and more.

Steve, thanks for your sharing your pictures. We always discover things.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:22 pm

Thanks Ricardo.

Unfortunately I know very little about Spanish produced figures, other than the fact some were Spain only releases & some are known to have been exported to other parts of Europe. Your Iggy is the only other one I've seen with COO #6 & the textured head & limbs. The fact they share these characteristics suggests they have a common origin, but I can't speculate whether that is Spain or Asia. Hopefully others will be able to shed some light on this interesting figure. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:32 pm

Hi folks,

this time I want to share with all of you an easy to find figure but a great character.

Again, everybody is free to take their own conclusions.

Imperial Commander
kenner (left), pbp no coo #1 (middle), pbp no coo #2 different head and body (right)








What I see:
- kenner and pbp no coo #1 have same "brilliant" body. pbp no coo #2 has not "brilliant" body
- kenner and pbp no coo #1 have very similiar head but not exactly the same. pbp no coo #2 has different head
- all 3 have different hair color.

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:36 pm

@ackbar100 wrote:
Hi folks,

this time I want to share with all of you an easy to find figure but a great character.

Again, everybody is free to take their own conclusions.

Imperial Commander
kenner (left), pbp no coo #1 (middle), pbp no coo #2 different head and body (right)




What I see:
- kenner and pbp no coo #1 have same "brilliant" body. pbp no coo #2 has not "brilliant" body
- kenner and pbp no coo #1 have very similiar head but not exactly the same. pbp no coo #2 has different head
- all 3 have different hair color.


Hi Ricardo

Great that you've decided to contribute to this thread, I think that your Imperial commander on the right is actually the one known as the Tri-logo variant, not sure on the hair colour but looks the same, not sure why Tri-Logo either as its found on Palitoy ROTJ cards, maybe there ESB cards also. IMO that figure is made in HK and not by PBP. I also think that the same COO but with the HK present is also found on Palitoy cards but not 100% sure.

Scott
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:49 pm

I thought PBP and LEDY imperial commanders had curly thumbs?

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:00 pm

No problem Scott. Very Happy
When comments are made in positive way, they are always welcome.

I would like to highlight that I am not going to discuss any post. My goal is to share some pictures and write about what I see in my figures. That's all. Everybody will be free to take their own decission.

Very Happy Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:31 pm

@ackbar100 wrote:
No problem Scott. Very Happy
When comments are made in positive way, they are always welcome.

I would like to highlight that I am not going to discuss any post. My goal is to share some pictures and write about what I see in my figures. That's all. Everybody will be free to take their own decission.

Very Happy Very Happy


Hay Ricardo, no problem and I look forward to seeing what else you have.

I know you said you'r not going to discus any but i thinkk thats a real shame as a lot can be learned about these PBP made figures, just wondering what makes you think he's (right) made by PBP?

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:43 pm

Some times it is necessary to do an exception Very Happy

Scott, you are right. The third figure is a trilogo one. Totally agree.

:I am stupid:
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:54 pm

I hope you can not find more lapses Smile Smile

here you are luke x wing pilot. All 3 pbp scar.

regular one (left), pink face (middle), pale face (right)



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