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 THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE

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snaggletooth
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:01 am

@ackbar100 wrote:
That is a good proof that shows us that han hoth pale face was not an exclusive figure sold only in Spain.

thanks Snaggletooth :-)


Hi Ricardo, I'm glad that you can apreciate that Han and just because he's on a Palitoy card doesn't take anything away from the fact that he's an awesome PBP figure in my opinion, not exclusive yes but still hard to find.

That is a great line up of IC's to Javi, which one would you Spanish guys day's the hardest to find in Spain, I've heard about those COo's coming out of the UK but in 2 years when I was collecting lots I didn't come across any.

@Neonboy wrote:
The one shown on the left is found in the US or possibley on Tri cards- anyways I have a few here.. but with orange not RED dots on the head.. which is the RARE Euro variant.
the one on the right is also found in the Us and very common actually
Robert
Is this referring to Javis IC's?, Tri-logos could help explain these as there's a lot got shipped to the US after production Stopped.

A question for anyone who has any Ideas, was there any other made in Spain Kenner MOC's apart from the Cantina aliens?
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:45 am

Hi there

here you are a new poch figure. Princess Leia.

Poch figure on the left. Kenner figure on the right








you can see...
-different hair color
-different face details
-pale hands
-big melt marks on the back

see you with the next figure
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:04 pm



Fantastic contribution, Ricardo!

And what a POCH beauty she is! Very Happy

Looking forward to your next figure. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:57 pm

Back home, I quickly made some pics of a newly arrived Jawa from Spain.
The Spanish Jawa is on the right in all pics, Kenner on the left (remark that the figures have different COOs, I had no time to find matching ones).





















Compared to his Kenner brother, the Spanish Jawa has:
Paler yellow eyes which are small and not perfectly round.
REMARK Kenner figures have either big or small round eyes, see the comparison pic below (Kenner on the left and in the middle, Spanish Jawa on the right).





The Spanish Jawa shares similarities but is also different from the POCH Jawa described by Wolff.

http://swspaceclub.com/wbobafett/poch-variants/jawa/

Unique shaped eyes: CHECK
Darker painted bandolier: CHECK (though not that dark and glossy as in Wolff's guide)
Glossy black paint on hands: NO
COO: Different HK COO!!

Wolff notices that the mould of the bandolier in his POCH Jawa does not match wth the COO of the figure.
Quote: If you have a closer look you will notice that the mold of the strap is different too. This is a mold from another HK-family/series and got probably mixed up in the PBP factory.

The Spanish Jawa in this post has the same bandolier mold. The COO is a different HK COO however.
Maybe this COO fits to the bandolier mold? In that case, this Spanish Jawa would not be a mixed up figure.

Jawa experts like Orangpendek or Jason are needed here! Very Happy

And maybe Wolff likes to chime in as well. That would be great.

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:21 pm

That is a very distinctive Jawa Marco. Does the cape have any distinguishing features unique to the Spanish release?
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:17 am


Good question, Steve.


I haven't checked the cape yet.. At first sight it looks like a regular rough texture cape. Need to compare it thoroughly with the other capes.

Do you see any differences?

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:14 am

Sorry, I can not give extra info about the cape but here you are my jawa poch.












My figure is very similar to yours.

Next figure will a pbp one :-)
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:16 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:

Good question, Steve.


I haven't checked the cape yet.. At first sight it looks like a regular rough texture cape. Need to compare it thoroughly with the other capes.

Do you see any differences?

Cheers

Looking at your photos, I don't see any obvious differences in the cape. As the figure appears to have unique features, I was just curious as to whether the cape had any e.g. stitching.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:30 pm

@cantina_patron wrote:


Looking at your photos, I don't see any obvious differences in the cape. As the figure appears to have unique features, I was just curious as to whether the cape had any e.g. stitching.

Thanks, Steve.

It wouldn't be a big surprise to me when the cape and the gun turned out to be regular Kenner accessories imported from Asia.
Sofar only a few accessories seem to be unique for the early Spanish line (e.g. POCH Darth Vader cape, POCH Snowtrooper cape), whereas others are not (POCH Lando cape, POCH Tusken Raider cape).

But I haven't taken a close look at the cape sofar, so maybe there is some difference....

The main distinctive character of the Spanish Jawa seems to be the eyes. Small, pale yellow, and irregular shaped compared to the nice round eyes of Kenner figures.

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:42 pm

Thanks Ricardo for posting pics of your Jawa. Very Happy

I don't know about you guys, but to me it seems there might be at least two types of Spanish Jawas.

The one described by Wolff and the one posted by me and Ricardo, which seems to be the same. A picture tells more than a thousand words:



I hope more collectors chime in and post pics of their Jawas as well. You can make the difference here.

It would also be interesting to know whether the bandolier molds (just called them type I and II here), correspond to their normal COOs (as in Kenner figures). If that is not the case, it means that parts from different molds were used to assembly the figure (like discribed earlier in this thread for the applegreen Spanish Yoda).
In other words does the Type I bandolier correspond to COO#4 in Kenner figures, and Type II to COO#7.

Jawa experts needed here! I hope they drive by.... Very Happy




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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:48 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:


The main distinctive character of the Spanish Jawa seems to be the eyes. Small, pale yellow, and irregular shaped compared to the nice round eyes of Kenner figures.


may be it just me unsure ,but can see in the compare picuters that the first three have more a dark tan in the face(glossy)
and more groves details then the kenner(dark dull black) figures,


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:07 pm

poch jawa's seems to have more green in eye paint than yellow.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:14 am

Good points, Starwizz. Very Happy

So what do we have now as possible Spanish Jawa traits?

Greenish yellow eyes.
Small irregular shaped eyes
Thinner layer of black paint on the face, so the mold grooves can be seen better.

I wonder whether Kenner figures always have a thicker layer of paint on the face . scratch
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:25 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:
Thanks Ricardo for posting pics of your Jawa. Very Happy

I don't know about you guys, but to me it seems there might be at least two types of Spanish Jawas.

The one described by Wolff and the one posted by me and Ricardo, which seems to be the same. A picture tells more than a thousand words:



I hope more collectors chime in and post pics of their Jawas as well. You can make the difference here.

It would also be interesting to know whether the bandolier molds (just called them type I and II here), correspond to their normal COOs (as in Kenner figures). If that is not the case, it means that parts from different molds were used to assembly the figure (like discribed earlier in this thread for the applegreen Spanish Yoda).
In other words does the Type I bandolier correspond to COO#4 in Kenner figures, and Type II to COO#7.

Jawa experts needed here! I hope they drive by.... Very Happy





Thanks for these pictures, your jawa and ackbars are a mix up of #7 or #8 front and back torso's, you can see the little crease in the hood of the cape on the left cheeck of the figure which is not present on wolff's example which is a mix of #1 or #4 limbs with a #2 or #3 torso.If you compare the details of the bandoliers on the front of the newly found poch jawas to the back you will notice the front has more explicit detailing and is slightly wider than the backside which makes the sonic weld look sloppy.Just noticed Ricardo's figure even has a #1 or #4 left arm( nipple on the thumb ) and the plastic and paint of the arm look identical to Wolff's figure.

Cheers,

Dieter


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:41 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:
Jawa experts needed here! I hope they drive by.... Very Happy



Very Happy I think you found one ^^^^^^
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:33 am

Hi Dieter,

I was hoping you would chime in! Very Happy
Thank you very much for your post. It helps a lot to get some more insight into these Spanish Jawas.

So it seems that all these Jawas are composed from parts that originally belong to different (steel) molds.

Let's do some brainstorming, not evidence based:

I can not imagine PBP got so many different steel molds to produce their own Jawa figures by plastic injection. We are talking about molds belonging to COO #1,#2, #3, #4, #7, #8!! Seems like a lot to me.

Maybe PBP got (overstock?) bags of limbs, torsos etc. from Asian factories and just put these together fairly randomly, followed by welding When parts did not fit together exactly (parts originating from different molds) it would indeed explain the cracks which you see sometimes in these figures.
The parts from Asia might be painted. But I would expect some parts to arrive at the PBP factory w/o any paint. These were then painted by PBP prior to welding, resulting in a paint job which is different compared to Kenner figures. How else could we explain the specific paint differences which we see here?

Another option: Maybe some plastic parts were produced by PBP (POCH) using their own steel molds, and some were imported from Asia (painted or unpainted), and got mixed up. scratch

Question is, are there any paint apps which we can consider unique for these Spanish Jawas?
- Small irregular shaped greenish yellow eyes
- Thin layer of black paint on the face, so the grooves are visible very well.
- Dark glossy bandolier (as on Wolff’s Jawa)
- Black glossy face and hands (as on Wolff’s Jawa)

Or these features unique or can we also see them on Kenner Jawas?

More expertise needed here. Very Happy


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:15 am

Hello Marco, i've been up to my elbows in jawas trying to find you some answers and every minute my respect for people like wolff and generak khan keeps growig.There's just so many details and the differences are so subtle that it makes it nearly impossible to catagorise and describe them all, one thing i did find out is that i get distracted easily Laughing .

@Dr Dengar wrote:
Hi Dieter,

I was hoping you would chime in! Very Happy
Thank you very much for your post. It helps a lot to get some more insight into these Spanish Jawas.

So it seems that all these Jawas are composed from parts that originally belong to different (steel) molds.

I need to explain this better, the #7 & #8 are a travelling pair, but unlike the other travelling pairs they both have 2 types of detailing to the torso, the type 2 and "type 3"(similar to coo#1 and #4 bandolier)the only acception is the coo #8 a&b used by Lily Ledy, they only use the type2 bandolier.
Kenner figures have the same mix up of type 2 and type 3 front and back torso's and they fit together perfectly, so my assumption that this causes the bad sonic welding is wrong.
Wolff's figure has the combination of the type 1 torso with #1or#4 limbs, this is a combination that's nearly impossible to find, but it is not unique, this combination can be found in Europe on the discolored cloth cape jawa and in Australia on the discolored vinyl cape jawa, the paint on the face and hands is as shiny as the Poch figure but the colour of the eyes and bandolier are unique to the Poch figure, as is the scar on the left arm.

@Dr Dengar wrote:


Let's do some brainstorming, not evidence based:

I can not imagine PBP got so many different steel molds to produce their own Jawa figures by plastic injection. We are talking about molds belonging to COO #1,#2, #3, #4, #7, #8!! Seems like a lot to me.

If you stick to wolff's travelilng pair theory it's only three sets, the carded evidence indicates at least two sets.

@Dr Dengar wrote:


Maybe PBP got (overstock?) bags of limbs, torsos etc. from Asian factories and just put these together fairly randomly, followed by welding When parts did not fit together exactly (parts originating from different molds) it would indeed explain the cracks which you see sometimes in these figures.
The parts from Asia might be painted. But I would expect some parts to arrive at the PBP factory w/o any paint. These were then painted by PBP prior to welding, resulting in a paint job which is different compared to Kenner figures. How else could we explain the specific paint differences which we see here?

Another option: Maybe some plastic parts were produced by PBP (POCH) using their own steel molds, and some were imported from Asia (painted or unpainted), and got mixed up. scratch

Question is, are there any paint apps which we can consider unique for these Spanish Jawas?

- Small irregular shaped greenish yellow eyes

The small irregular eyes are the same paintmask as used by kenner on the same coo's
[/quote][img][/img]
the greenish lighter colour could just be a result of how many layers of paint are applied.If you want i can send you a bunch of figures to compare because it's just so hard to compare real live figures in sunlight to a picture on a computer screen .

@Dr Dengar wrote:


- Thin layer of black paint on the face, so the grooves are visible very well.

The grooves are usually vissible very well on the Kenner "type 2" torso, the Kenner figures in your comparison picture both have a "type 3"torso, so that would explain the difference in detail.

@Dr Dengar wrote:


- Dark glossy bandolier (as on Wolff’s Jawa)

This i would concider a unique feature to that specific figure, i did find a #7 coo figure that looks pretty close although it looks like a layer of paint that covers the Kenner colour [img][/img]but i would have to send it to wolff if he's interested to have him compare them to be sure about this.

@Dr Dengar wrote:


- Black glossy face and hands (as on Wolff’s Jawa)

The glossy black looks the same as on these
there has already been a lot of speculation on the origin of these figures as some of them have been found with a little red vinyl cape, but all i can say about these is that i can only find them in Europe and Australia.

@Dr Dengar wrote:

Or these features unique or can we also see them on Kenner Jawas?

More expertise needed here.

Please keep in mind that i am by no means an expert, i prefer the title of nutcase anyway Laughing and that my collection is only a tiny slice of what is out there. So if anybody has anything to correct or add to this i'm open for all suggestions.

conclusion so far:

Wolff's figure is definitly a Poch jawa, it has unique features and a carded version to back it up.

Marco and Ricardo's figures have these things going for them

-both came from Spain
-they have the same flat spot on their right leg
-they are both poorly assembled
-the eye colour could be different, but somebody would have to verify this by comparrisment in sunlight.
-Ricardo's figure has a left arm that looks like it's made of the same plastic and has the same paint as Wolff's verified example

The big problem with these two figures is that even if a carded example would surface they would be almost impossible to recognise with their capes on scratch





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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:59 am


Hey Dieter,

Thank you very much for your extended reply. You have some great Jawa knowledge, which helps us further here!
I would love to see an overview of Jawa pictures one day, explaining all the differecnes in COOs, bandoliers, and other mold details one day. Very Happy

One remark: To me it still seems that the eyes (shape and colour) of all three Spanish Jawas are different from the picture you posted.

What do you think?






Cheers
Marco
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:28 am


Kenneth was so kind to make pictures of his POCH Jawa. He asked me to post them here, as he was not in the opportunity to do so right now.








To me it seems that Kenneth's Jawa matches the one posted before by me and Ricardo. Let's call that Jawa Type B.

Wolff mailed me a picture of another POCH Jawa matching his (let's call that Jawa Type A, as it was described first).

So this is fuelling the idea that there at least are two type of Spanish Jawas.

POCH never get's you bored, LOL! Very Happy

Thanks for sending the pics, Kenneth! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:57 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:

Hey Dieter,

Thank you very much for your extended reply. You have some great Jawa knowledge, which helps us further here!
I would love to see an overview of Jawa pictures one day, explaining all the differecnes in COOs, bandoliers, and other mold details one day. Very Happy

Working on it, i have pieces of paper with shreds of information all over the place all i have to do is figure out what i was trying to describe at the moment and why unsure


@Dr dengar wrote:

One remark: To me it still seems that the eyes (shape and colour) of all three Spanish Jawas are different from the picture you posted.

What do you think?

I have to agree, especially now Kenneth has been so kind to take pictures of his example.Now we have three different pictures taken by three different camera's and they all match eachother but not my picture.
Thanks for showing all these pictures everybody, there were two of these figures offered as Poch on Ebay not so long ago by a Spanish seller did either of them end up in one of your collections or are there two more out there ?

I'm off to brush up my Spanish now, looks like i will be spending a lot of time on Ebay spain hunting for two more minions.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:09 am

Hey Dieter,

Thansk for your comment. Good to hear that you agree that the eyes of the Spanish Yodas (both types) are clearly different.

Both types have the greenish-yellow instead of yellow eyes. This might be due to a thin layer application of paint and shining through of the black paint undernaeth, as you suggested.

Moreover the eye shape of the Spanish Jawas is different. Look at the comparison pic, the painted eyes seem to fit almost completely within the mold lines of the eyes, whereas in Kenner figures, the eyes are clearly painted outside these mold lines. Thanks to Wolff for also noting this.





BTW: I aslo would be interested to see pics of the POCH Jawas which were recently sold on ebay.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:39 am

Found pictures of the last one i was bidding on on Ebay[img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img]
Looks like it has a type 3 bandolier, bigger/thicker eyes and no coo?
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:39 am


Opinions please....IG-88 brought from spain, factory melt marks or play damage?


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:09 pm


@ Dieter:

Thanks for putting the auction pics of the Spanish Jawa. I agree the eyes look different compared to the other Spanish Jawas in the posts before.


@ Stefan:,

Thanks for sharing.

Are there any paint differences compared to a 'normal' Iggy?





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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:40 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:
Are there any paint differences compared to a 'normal' Iggy?

No the paint apps look like the kenner versions, I have two with the same COO, but one is dull grey the other silver, this one its in the middle colour wise. Oh and he has a wobbly head Smile

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