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 THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE

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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:33 am

Hi Dieter,

I was hoping you would chime in! Very Happy
Thank you very much for your post. It helps a lot to get some more insight into these Spanish Jawas.

So it seems that all these Jawas are composed from parts that originally belong to different (steel) molds.

Let's do some brainstorming, not evidence based:

I can not imagine PBP got so many different steel molds to produce their own Jawa figures by plastic injection. We are talking about molds belonging to COO #1,#2, #3, #4, #7, #8!! Seems like a lot to me.

Maybe PBP got (overstock?) bags of limbs, torsos etc. from Asian factories and just put these together fairly randomly, followed by welding When parts did not fit together exactly (parts originating from different molds) it would indeed explain the cracks which you see sometimes in these figures.
The parts from Asia might be painted. But I would expect some parts to arrive at the PBP factory w/o any paint. These were then painted by PBP prior to welding, resulting in a paint job which is different compared to Kenner figures. How else could we explain the specific paint differences which we see here?

Another option: Maybe some plastic parts were produced by PBP (POCH) using their own steel molds, and some were imported from Asia (painted or unpainted), and got mixed up. scratch

Question is, are there any paint apps which we can consider unique for these Spanish Jawas?
- Small irregular shaped greenish yellow eyes
- Thin layer of black paint on the face, so the grooves are visible very well.
- Dark glossy bandolier (as on Wolff’s Jawa)
- Black glossy face and hands (as on Wolff’s Jawa)

Or these features unique or can we also see them on Kenner Jawas?

More expertise needed here. Very Happy


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:15 am

Hello Marco, i've been up to my elbows in jawas trying to find you some answers and every minute my respect for people like wolff and generak khan keeps growig.There's just so many details and the differences are so subtle that it makes it nearly impossible to catagorise and describe them all, one thing i did find out is that i get distracted easily Laughing .

@Dr Dengar wrote:
Hi Dieter,

I was hoping you would chime in! Very Happy
Thank you very much for your post. It helps a lot to get some more insight into these Spanish Jawas.

So it seems that all these Jawas are composed from parts that originally belong to different (steel) molds.

I need to explain this better, the #7 & #8 are a travelling pair, but unlike the other travelling pairs they both have 2 types of detailing to the torso, the type 2 and "type 3"(similar to coo#1 and #4 bandolier)the only acception is the coo #8 a&b used by Lily Ledy, they only use the type2 bandolier.
Kenner figures have the same mix up of type 2 and type 3 front and back torso's and they fit together perfectly, so my assumption that this causes the bad sonic welding is wrong.
Wolff's figure has the combination of the type 1 torso with #1or#4 limbs, this is a combination that's nearly impossible to find, but it is not unique, this combination can be found in Europe on the discolored cloth cape jawa and in Australia on the discolored vinyl cape jawa, the paint on the face and hands is as shiny as the Poch figure but the colour of the eyes and bandolier are unique to the Poch figure, as is the scar on the left arm.

@Dr Dengar wrote:


Let's do some brainstorming, not evidence based:

I can not imagine PBP got so many different steel molds to produce their own Jawa figures by plastic injection. We are talking about molds belonging to COO #1,#2, #3, #4, #7, #8!! Seems like a lot to me.

If you stick to wolff's travelilng pair theory it's only three sets, the carded evidence indicates at least two sets.

@Dr Dengar wrote:


Maybe PBP got (overstock?) bags of limbs, torsos etc. from Asian factories and just put these together fairly randomly, followed by welding When parts did not fit together exactly (parts originating from different molds) it would indeed explain the cracks which you see sometimes in these figures.
The parts from Asia might be painted. But I would expect some parts to arrive at the PBP factory w/o any paint. These were then painted by PBP prior to welding, resulting in a paint job which is different compared to Kenner figures. How else could we explain the specific paint differences which we see here?

Another option: Maybe some plastic parts were produced by PBP (POCH) using their own steel molds, and some were imported from Asia (painted or unpainted), and got mixed up. scratch

Question is, are there any paint apps which we can consider unique for these Spanish Jawas?

- Small irregular shaped greenish yellow eyes

The small irregular eyes are the same paintmask as used by kenner on the same coo's
[/quote][img][/img]
the greenish lighter colour could just be a result of how many layers of paint are applied.If you want i can send you a bunch of figures to compare because it's just so hard to compare real live figures in sunlight to a picture on a computer screen .

@Dr Dengar wrote:


- Thin layer of black paint on the face, so the grooves are visible very well.

The grooves are usually vissible very well on the Kenner "type 2" torso, the Kenner figures in your comparison picture both have a "type 3"torso, so that would explain the difference in detail.

@Dr Dengar wrote:


- Dark glossy bandolier (as on Wolff’s Jawa)

This i would concider a unique feature to that specific figure, i did find a #7 coo figure that looks pretty close although it looks like a layer of paint that covers the Kenner colour [img][/img]but i would have to send it to wolff if he's interested to have him compare them to be sure about this.

@Dr Dengar wrote:


- Black glossy face and hands (as on Wolff’s Jawa)

The glossy black looks the same as on these
there has already been a lot of speculation on the origin of these figures as some of them have been found with a little red vinyl cape, but all i can say about these is that i can only find them in Europe and Australia.

@Dr Dengar wrote:

Or these features unique or can we also see them on Kenner Jawas?

More expertise needed here.

Please keep in mind that i am by no means an expert, i prefer the title of nutcase anyway Laughing and that my collection is only a tiny slice of what is out there. So if anybody has anything to correct or add to this i'm open for all suggestions.

conclusion so far:

Wolff's figure is definitly a Poch jawa, it has unique features and a carded version to back it up.

Marco and Ricardo's figures have these things going for them

-both came from Spain
-they have the same flat spot on their right leg
-they are both poorly assembled
-the eye colour could be different, but somebody would have to verify this by comparrisment in sunlight.
-Ricardo's figure has a left arm that looks like it's made of the same plastic and has the same paint as Wolff's verified example

The big problem with these two figures is that even if a carded example would surface they would be almost impossible to recognise with their capes on scratch





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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:59 am


Hey Dieter,

Thank you very much for your extended reply. You have some great Jawa knowledge, which helps us further here!
I would love to see an overview of Jawa pictures one day, explaining all the differecnes in COOs, bandoliers, and other mold details one day. Very Happy

One remark: To me it still seems that the eyes (shape and colour) of all three Spanish Jawas are different from the picture you posted.

What do you think?






Cheers
Marco
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:28 am


Kenneth was so kind to make pictures of his POCH Jawa. He asked me to post them here, as he was not in the opportunity to do so right now.








To me it seems that Kenneth's Jawa matches the one posted before by me and Ricardo. Let's call that Jawa Type B.

Wolff mailed me a picture of another POCH Jawa matching his (let's call that Jawa Type A, as it was described first).

So this is fuelling the idea that there at least are two type of Spanish Jawas.

POCH never get's you bored, LOL! Very Happy

Thanks for sending the pics, Kenneth! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:57 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:

Hey Dieter,

Thank you very much for your extended reply. You have some great Jawa knowledge, which helps us further here!
I would love to see an overview of Jawa pictures one day, explaining all the differecnes in COOs, bandoliers, and other mold details one day. Very Happy

Working on it, i have pieces of paper with shreds of information all over the place all i have to do is figure out what i was trying to describe at the moment and why unsure


@Dr dengar wrote:

One remark: To me it still seems that the eyes (shape and colour) of all three Spanish Jawas are different from the picture you posted.

What do you think?

I have to agree, especially now Kenneth has been so kind to take pictures of his example.Now we have three different pictures taken by three different camera's and they all match eachother but not my picture.
Thanks for showing all these pictures everybody, there were two of these figures offered as Poch on Ebay not so long ago by a Spanish seller did either of them end up in one of your collections or are there two more out there ?

I'm off to brush up my Spanish now, looks like i will be spending a lot of time on Ebay spain hunting for two more minions.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:09 am

Hey Dieter,

Thansk for your comment. Good to hear that you agree that the eyes of the Spanish Yodas (both types) are clearly different.

Both types have the greenish-yellow instead of yellow eyes. This might be due to a thin layer application of paint and shining through of the black paint undernaeth, as you suggested.

Moreover the eye shape of the Spanish Jawas is different. Look at the comparison pic, the painted eyes seem to fit almost completely within the mold lines of the eyes, whereas in Kenner figures, the eyes are clearly painted outside these mold lines. Thanks to Wolff for also noting this.





BTW: I aslo would be interested to see pics of the POCH Jawas which were recently sold on ebay.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:39 am

Found pictures of the last one i was bidding on on Ebay[img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img]
Looks like it has a type 3 bandolier, bigger/thicker eyes and no coo?
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:39 am


Opinions please....IG-88 brought from spain, factory melt marks or play damage?


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:09 pm


@ Dieter:

Thanks for putting the auction pics of the Spanish Jawa. I agree the eyes look different compared to the other Spanish Jawas in the posts before.


@ Stefan:,

Thanks for sharing.

Are there any paint differences compared to a 'normal' Iggy?





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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:40 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:
Are there any paint differences compared to a 'normal' Iggy?

No the paint apps look like the kenner versions, I have two with the same COO, but one is dull grey the other silver, this one its in the middle colour wise. Oh and he has a wobbly head Smile

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:27 am

Hi Mates,
I think it's time to share other character. This thread is for poch/pbp figures so now it is time for a pbp one :-)

Han solo pbp pale hand & hand solo pbp pink hand









next figure a poch one :-)


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:03 am

Poor Han Solo.... nobody is interested on him :-(

Well, those things happen. Maybe Leia has better welcome.

Here you are a leia poch. When she appears with the kenner one, poch is always on the left.










Next chapter: a very rare pbp one :-)




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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:55 am

Nice Hans and Leia. Looking at the Leia I do have a question. On the Poch Leia are all of the belts painted thinner like this? From the pic of her back it looks as though the belt was painted by hand even. There doesnt appear to be much wear to the paint on this figure so I am assuming this is not wear to the paint from play so it has to have been painted this way.

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:56 pm

hi,
I confirm you that it has been painted in this way.

cheers
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:47 pm

@ackbar100 wrote:
Poor Han Solo.... nobody is interested on him :-(

The right one on your picture is not really a unique PBP figure. You´ll find this one also on Palitoy and General Mills 45 backs. I have a Han Solo from Spain with a unmistakable eye paint. See 2nd figure on the picture.
1. PBP Han pale Hands
2. PBP Han middle pink hands fat painted eyes
3. Same COO but not exclusive on PBP Cards....pale face, small painted eyes and eyebrows...only appearance on Trilogo small blister Cards.
4./5. Same COO...appearance on ESB Palitoy and General Mills 45 back Cards.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:56 pm

Thank you Ricardo and Mirco for discussing the Han Solo variants.

Here are some pics of mine.









From left to right:
A. Pink hands, fat painted eye brows.
B. Pink hands, medium painted eye brows.
C. Pale hands, very fat painted eye brows.

All figures have the same no COO.



I tried to link these figures to Mirco's picture. I think it is as follows, but am not sure. Would appreciate some feedback on this.
A = 2
B= 4
C = 1

@mike-skywalker wrote:


The right one on your picture is not really a unique PBP figure. You´ll find this one also on Palitoy and General Mills 45 backs. I have a Han Solo from Spain with a unmistakable eye paint. See 2nd figure on the picture.
1. PBP Han pale Hands
2. PBP Han middle pink hands fat painted eyes
3. Same COO but not exclusive on PBP Cards....pale face, small painted eyes and eyebrows...only appearance on Trilogo small blister Cards.
4./5. Same COO...appearance on ESB Palitoy and General Mills 45 back Cards.

I have already put no. 3 on my wish list. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:03 pm

Let's discuss Leia a bit more:

I have three Leias from Spain in my collection. See the pics below.


From left to right: Leia A (left), Leia B (middle), Leia C (right).



From left to right: Leia A (left), Leia B (right).



From left to right: Leia A (left), Leia B (right).



From left to right: Leia A (left), Leia B (right).



From left to right: Leia A (left), Leia B (right).



From left to right: Leia A (left), Leia B (right).



From left to right: Leia A (left), Leia B (right).



Summary:

A: Pale hands, pale face, light brown belt, small eye brows, COO#5 (bought as a POCH figure from a Spanish collector)
B: Pink hands, pinkish face, COO#2, black belt, fat eye brows, COO#2 (obtained from a Spanish childhood collection)
C: Same as B IMO (bought as POCH figure from a Spanish collector)


Ricardo: Interestingly your Spanish Leia seems to be a mix of Leia A (pale hands), and B (torso, head, legs with COO#2).
What do you think?


@ackbar100 wrote:


Here you are a leia poch. When she appears with the kenner one, poch is always on the left.





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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:10 pm

Below you see a comparison picture of Leia A and B from the previous post with a Kenner figure having pale (faded, discoloured) hands.

From left to right: Kenner figure with faded hands (left), Leia A from Spain (middle). Leia B from Spain (right).



Leia A has pale hands which are typical for POCH figures.
These hands looks totally different compared to faded Kenner hands.

I posted this so you guys realise that not every pale hand figure on ebay is a POCH figure.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:31 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:
Let's discuss Leia a bit more:



Ricardo: Interestingly your Spanish Leia seems to be a mix of Leia A (pale hands), and B (torso, head, legs with COO#2).
What do you think?




Hi Dengar,

You are right, my figure looks a mix of both leia's, definetively.

:-)
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:57 am

@ackbar100 wrote:


Hi Dengar,

You are right, my figure looks a mix of both leia's, definetively.

:-)

Thanks Ricardo!

It would be great if we could view some more Leias from Spain.

There is one in Kenneth's limelight, but the pic is too small to see any details.


Picture - Kenneth B.

Kenneth: Can you post some other pics of her highness pls?

And off course pictures from other Spanish Leias are much welcomed here as well.


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:04 am

Luis has a Leia in his collection as well. cheers

@lfantelo wrote:



Looks like Luis' Leia and my Leia B (and C) are the same: pink hands and head.

@ Variant experts: Was this variant also available outside of Spain?


From left to right: Leia A (left), Leia B (middle), Leia C (right).




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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:59 am

Nice day for a rare pbp figure.

Cloud car pilot pbp scar pink face with original pbp accesories -clear grey-.







I am still thinking whic one will be the next



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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:58 pm


Great figure, and in great condition too. :Drool:

The light grey accessories are rare too!

Thanks for sharing! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:10 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:

Great figure, and in great condition too. :Drool:

The light grey accessories are rare too!

Thanks for sharing! Very Happy

I really appreciate your comments Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:08 pm

Sorry just going back to the Han's again, I bought this one from e bay about a year ago. the seller just listed him as a regular big head Han not specifically PBP, he has the same no coo, he has pale hands and the same large eyebrows as figure C in Marco's picture. was this figure exclusive or did he come on Palitoy tri logos? i'm guessing that because i didn't buy him from Spain that its the latter but a confirmation either way would be appreciated.

[img][/img]
[img][/img]

This Dengar figure I've had for years, can't remember where or when i picked him up. I always figured him to be a tri logo due to his pale face, but because of his coo "Made In Hong Kong" partial scar i was wondering if he was a PBP exclusive or again, just a Palitoy tri logo.

[img][/img]
[img][/img]

If these figures are PBP's should i pair them up with a specific variant of weapon? Any advice on this would be greatly apreciated, cheers.
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