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 THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE

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Jedi Blueberry
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:59 am

This is a call to the Poch/PBP experts lol!

My Spanish friend sent me a bunch of figures that he purchased on local fleamarkets and through classified ads. For sure I have detected among them a few POCH/PBP figures (Han Solo in Hoth disguise for example). Unfortunately they are all in heavily played with condition and some have been chewed... Sad

In any case the plastic of those figures and even the color are not the same as used for the Kenner line (now that I have them in hands I can compare). I am sure for both Han solo, both stormtrooper, the AT AT driver and Tie Pilot. I have doubts for Snaggletooth and Hammerhead. Additionnally the welding of the stormtrooper is so bad I can not imagine it would have passed any Kenner quality inspection.
There is also a gun that has a strange metallic blue color (that's the first one I have seen so far).
I made a few pics. Maybe you guys could bring some light in my ignorance? :I am stupid:

Thanks!









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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:20 am

Hey Alex,

Great Spanish childhood collecdtion, I hope there will be some gems inside for you.

Han Hoth looks like the pale face variant. Is his jacket darker blue than a regular Han Hoth, does the COO match?

The badly welded Stormtroper: Hong Kong COO? Might be POCH in that case. Some pics will help.

Also check the R2.

Cheers


More about the metallic blaster here: http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t5446-help-identifying-a-metallic-bespin-blaster

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plantainman
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:51 am

Nice pickup Jedi-B

The black bespin guard looks like the PBP version, which is a nice pickup.

Snaggletooth is 100% PBP.

The Han original looks to have pale features, so check his COO vs the PBP/POCH thread, because he may be a very nice spanish variant and he looks in decent condition too.

I don't know about the Han hoth, but there's loads of literature about him that I doubt you'll have trouble narrowing down his origin. Same with the stormies.

Marco has pointed you in the right direction with the metallic blaster. I believe Dr.D owns two of these, Yours would complete a hatrick for him Razz

I bet Walkie will comment soon, I reckon this would be the kind of parcel he'd like to receive on the doorstep most mornings.

Well done.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:15 am


Quote :
I bet Walkie will comment soon, I reckon this would be the kind of parcel he'd like to receive on the doorstep most mornings.

Am I that predictable?!?!

Quote :
Marco has pointed you in the right direction with the metallic blaster. I believe Dr.D owns two of these, Yours would complete a hatrick for him Razz

Yes marco has two already so here has enough LOL!, and it's about time I got my first one!

Joking apart, nice pick ups everyone again, it looks like LEDY figures are becoming very popular again. Hopefully another update from me tomorrow, and no LEDY this item scratch

_________________________________________________
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* Visit My Vintage Paperwork Limelight Click Me!
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:54 am

@Starwizz wrote:


just , compare to the poch ccp accesories how rare are this? are the grey accessories unink to the pbp pink face figure?



Hi Starwizz, in my opinion the clear grey commlink is most difficult one to find... but it is just my opion. I have 2 or 3 samples of each rare pbp weapon but clear grey commlink only one.

Regarding to your second question.... I am afraid I can not give you an anwser. To be honest, I don't know.


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:03 am

What about new stuff here.

It is time for a rare Lando POCH no black neck.

The brown color used in the figure is darker than the black neck version.











As usual no comments, please feel free to take your conclusions Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy



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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:25 pm

I have also a Lando with this greyish pants! I did not knwo it was a Spanish production, is the cape not lighter than its Kenner counterpart?
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:31 pm

More pics on my "Spanish" present! han solo outfit is definitively grey molded and not blue as its Kenner counterpart (see pic 4 and 5) and the mould seems to be different as well.









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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:37 pm

Ricardo I might have this Poch Lando also. I'll check tomorrow.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:30 am

@Jedi Blueberry wrote:
This is a call to the Poch/PBP experts lol!













Although they have been very well played, you have nice things here. I love the electric blue blaster :-)




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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:32 am

@Kenneth_B wrote:
Ricardo I might have this Poch Lando also. I'll check tomorrow.

I hope so :-) I confirm you that MOC samples of this figure exist. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:57 pm

I have this litte summarizing theory in mind for a little while now.

It gives me some support while trying to understand the different POCH/PBP figures which seem to be out there, and maybe it can also help other collectors.

Now it is time to challenge it, and I thought about sharing it.





PBP CLASS I ("Pure POCH")
  • Class I figures are composed of unpainted overstock parts which were imported from Asian (Hong Kong) factories. The parts were painted by PBP and subsequently welded.
  • Class I figures are recognized by their unique paint apps (e.g. pale hands). Because the Quality Control of the paint process was poor, this sometimes resulted in sloppy paint jobs.
  • The Quality Control on the the welding process was also poor, sometimes resulting in all kinds of factory imperfections: meltmarks, cracks, plastic extrusions.
  • It is possible that overstock was imported from different factories (using different steel molds), which might explain the different COOs observed also for "pure" POCH figures.
  • Examples of Class I figures: Han Hoth with chocolate legs, Lando (non smile) with black neck’,…



PBP CLASS II ("POCH Hybrid")
  • Class II figures resulted from mixing up imported Asian overstock parts which were already painted in Asia and Class I parts which were painted by PBP in Spain. After welding the mixed parts this resulted in Class II figures (“hybrids”).
  • The parts painted in Asian factories most likely don’t have an unique paint job, unlike the parts which were painted by PBP.
  • Like for Class I figures, the Quality Control on the the welding process by PBP was poor, sometimes resulting in all kinds of factory imperfections: meltmarks, cracks, plastic extrusions.
  • Note: Theoretically a figure could be entirely composed of painted Asian overstock parts. I haven't seen any examples yet,
  • Examples of Class II figures: Bespin Guard with one pale hand (painted by PBP) and one normal hand (painted in Asia), Leia Organa with glossy black head (painted by PBP) and pink hands (painted in Asia), Lando with smile (painted in Asia) with black neck (toso painted by PBP)?, 1978 HK COO R2 body (painted in Asia, stciker applied in Asia as well?) with dull dome (metalized by PBP)?, etc....



PBP CLASS III ("PBP")
  • Class III figures were produced by PBP using their own steel moulds which were imported from Asia and from which the COOs were removed.
  • The figures are characterised by the type of plastic used, the no COOs, and the unique paint apps.
  • QC is much better compared to the Class I and II figures now (paint and welding perspective).
  • Examples of Class III figures: pale face CCP, pale face Luke Hoth, pale face Han Hoth, etc.



PBP CLASS IV ("Import")
  • Class IV figures were (overstock) figures which were produced, welded and painted in Asian/Mexican factories abroad and were subsequently imported and packaged by PBP.
  • They can be found on 65 cards, Spanish trilogos, also on 45/47 backs maybe?
  • Examples of Class IV figures: Made in Taiwan Bikerscout / ERG on 65 backs, Lili Ledy Luke Bespin, Yoda on 65 backs, etc.



Please feel free to discuss and improve it wherever necessary. This is just version 1.

Cheers
Marco
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:29 pm

Awesome Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:59 pm

Hey Ricardo,

Thank you posting pics of that Lando figure.

I aslo have a Spanish HK Lando with a brown instead of black neck somewhere. Have to look him up and will make some pics next weekend.

Maybe a Class II figure?
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:45 pm

Has anyone ever had a longer, leather textured cape come with a PBP scarred COO Vader?
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 01, 2013 2:15 pm

@flycasual wrote:
Has anyone ever had a longer, leather textured cape come with a PBP scarred COO Vader?

A Vader having a scarred COO #8 appeared on PBP 65-backs, Palitoy 65-backs,....and in Clipper baggies without anything printed on them (opposed to the "Made in Macau" Clipper baggies).

Difficult to say where this Vader was produced, but I would put my money on Spain, not on an Asian factory.

The PBP/Clipper/Palitoy Vader comes with a thick "textured" cape, sometimes called leather cape or roguse cape. The cape has a little step on the edge.


Vaders: Left (COO#8 ): PBP, Palitoy, Clipper. Right: Lili Ledy.




@snaggletooth wrote:


These accessories are what I got from Alex out of a damaged Clipper Baggie he opened.


The back has a small leather pattern.


The inside has a smaller leather pattern and is lined




Source: javiswspain.


More here:
http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t3603-are-either-of-these-clipper-darth-vader-figures
http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t3346-darth-vador-in-baggie
http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1092084/

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 01, 2013 3:59 pm

Thanks Dr. D. Smile

It's definitely the same material: the outside is leather textured and the inside is lined.

There is no "little step" on the edge though and the top is flat.

I didn't realise they were that much longer than "normal" ones.

RE: "Difficult to say where this Vader was produced, but I would put my money on Spain"
He certainly smells like other Spanish figures.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 01, 2013 4:57 pm

So the 'roguse' cape wasn't unique to just PBP and Cliper produced vaders? I thought that palitoy vaders had a long but smooth cape that doesn't make much of a zipping sound unsure
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 01, 2013 10:10 pm

@chris.75 wrote:
So the 'roguse' cape wasn't unique to just PBP and Cliper produced vaders?


The Vader with the scared COO#8 was probably produced by PBP, packaged on PBP 65-backs, and exported to be released on (some?) Palitoy 65-backs, and in some Clipper mail aways. So it is the same Vader in all cases, and I assumed with the same thick leather cape.



@chris.75 wrote:
I thought that palitoy vaders had a long but smooth cape that doesn't make much of a zipping sound

Not sure what you mean with Palitoy Vader? The one with COO#8 or another?








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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 01, 2013 10:16 pm

@flycasual wrote:


It's definitely the same material: the outside is leather textured and the inside is lined.

There is no "little step" on the edge though and the top is flat.


I hadn't noticed the flat top. Never seen that before, but I don't know too much about Vader capes.

Do you have another leather cape to compare the length?

My first guess: Maybe a wrong cut?
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Thu May 02, 2013 12:34 am


Source: www.starwarsspanishstuff.info


Just wondering whether CCP, Black Bespin Guard, AT-AT Driver, and Luke Hoth appeared on the PBP 45 bacls.

If so, would these just have been imported figures with a Hong Kong COO? (Class IV)

Or figures which were entirely assembled from imported parts which were (painted and) welded by PBP? (Class II hybrids)

The last possibility seems unlikely at first but how else can you explain the existense of a hybrid CCP with a Hong Kong COO and a pale head (typical for later PBP production)?
Sure, there must have been a reason that loose HK parts were still laying around in the factory when production of the ROTJ figures started. Because these were imported before for making CCP figures for the 45 backs? unsure
Was this maybe a transition figure which was released on 45 backs? Before the PBP CCPs (with no COO and hard detialed body) took over?


@ackbar100 wrote:





Or is this one of the first PBP injection molded figures, using their own imported steel molds, before it was decided to remove the COOs?
Somehow the plastic does not look 'hard' enough for me like in regular PBP CCPs. But I might be wrong here. Ricardo?

Just some free thoughts, feel free to add yours here as well.






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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Thu May 02, 2013 2:31 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:
@chris.75 wrote:
So the 'roguse' cape wasn't unique to just PBP and Cliper produced vaders?


The Vader with the scared COO#8 was probably produced by PBP, packaged on PBP 65-backs, and exported to be released on (some?) Palitoy 65-backs, and in some Clipper mail aways. So it is the same Vader in all cases, and I assumed with the same thick leather cape.



@chris.75 wrote:
I thought that palitoy vaders had a long but smooth cape that doesn't make much of a zipping sound

Not sure what you mean with Palitoy Vader? The one with COO#8 or another?


Sorry marco, i meant the same coo#8 produced by PBP but i thought Palitoy provided a different cape. i must have misread your post on the LL discussion thread. I guess you were referring to the 'roguse' cape also in this case.


[quote]ACCESSORIES
The Ledy Vader came with a vinyl cape which differs from a Kenner cape in the following ways:
- 'smooth' feeling as it is made from more flexible vinyl. (Note that the Palitoy cape is also more flexible compared to a Kenner cape, but the feeling is different, more leather like.)
- absence of the typical 'zipping' sound when you scrape your finger against any side of the cape. (Note this is also the case for the Palitoy cape)
- the cape is shorter in length and the bigger sized arm holes are positioned a bit lower when compared to the Palitoy cape in the pic below. I didn't check this for the Kenner cape. Anyone?) [quote]



Hee hee sorry for being a dumb ass :I am stupid:
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Thu May 02, 2013 7:29 am

No worries Chris. And you are not a dumb ass for asking good questions.

I understand it can be a bit confusing. At the time I wrote the Darth Vader entry for the Ledy thread, I did not know that the Palitoy Vader with leather cape which you see there is the same type as can be seem on some PBP 65-backs and some Clipper baggies. So I just called him Palitoy Vader then, w/o mentioning the link to PBP or Clipper.

It took me some time before realizing this. I was the real dumb ass at that time. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Thu May 02, 2013 8:34 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:
@flycasual wrote:


It's definitely the same material: the outside is leather textured and the inside is lined.

There is no "little step" on the edge though and the top is flat.


I hadn't noticed the flat top. Never seen that before, but I don't know too much about Vader capes.

Do you have another leather cape to compare the length?

My first guess: Maybe a wrong cut?
It was probably the first off the sheet and was misaligned?

They are the only 2 Vader capes I have, sorry.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Thu May 02, 2013 1:42 pm

@flycasual wrote:

It was probably the first off the sheet and was misaligned?


That sounds like a good explaination.
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