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 THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE

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psybertech
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat May 18, 2013 11:19 am

Very nice POCH Bespin Leia!!! :Drool:
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat May 18, 2013 8:50 pm

Fantastic figures Ricardo! Kudos for that! Very Happy Finding a PBP Tie Pilot with almost perfect AT-AT Driver helmet and shoulder emblems is near impossible. Your Poch Leia Bespin with the reddish-brown hair, pale hands and unique (until it's proven otherwise) soft/highly detailed cape looks great also. Very tough figure to find and one of the cooler Poch variants imo.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat May 18, 2013 9:13 pm

Now it's my time to show some pics LOL. Wink

Poch Leia Hoth variant with true black hair, smooth chest emblem and green eye brows. This Poch variant is also present in Wolff's Poch guide by the way. This Leia Hoth figure is as freaking odd and cool, as it's rare. Much, much rarer than the second Poch Leia Hoth variant with the brown hair, dotted chest emblem and "Tex Mex" face imo. The coo's are different on the two Poch Leia Hoth figures too! It took me a year+ to locate and buy this figure.

Please enjoy the pics:

420

421

422

423

424

425

I see now, that I forgot to "highlight" a small meltmark at the bottom of the yellow west in the last pic. Smile



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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sat May 18, 2013 9:23 pm

Now it's time for my personal favourite Poch variant of them all...

This Bossk figure doesn't need any more presentation, since it's one of the most well known and desired Poch figures:

IMG_2140

IMG_2144

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun May 19, 2013 2:44 am



Hey Kenneth, I agree the POCH Leia Hoth with the green eye brows and dark hair is very hard to find. Your figure is in VERY nice condition too!

Same for the three ( affraid ) POCH Bossks. I am not sure whether the green limbs are due to discolouration. It might also be that PBP (POCH) just used the wrong paint for a certain batch of figures. In that case you would also expect to see POCH Bossk figures with normal limbs.

Maybe like the one in Wolff's limelight....

http://swspaceclub.com/wbobafett/my-collection/poch/
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun May 19, 2013 2:58 am

Next figure.....R2-D2!!


Below you see pics made from three R2s, all orginating from Spanish childhood collections. A Kenner R2 is included on the left in every picture.


From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (unpainted dull dome, normal sized red eye). (3) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye). (4) Same as (3).


From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (unpainted dull dome, normal sized red eye). (3) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye). (4) Same as (3).


From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (unpainted dull dome, normal sized red eye). (3) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye). (4) Same as (3).


From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye).


From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye).


From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye).


From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye).


From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye).



From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye).


All three Spanish R2s have a duller dome compared to the Kenner figure. Two of them have a small red eye, the other with unpainted dome (factory error?) has a normal sized red eye.

The blue of the legs seems slightly darker, but the difference is very subtle.


I haven't checked the stickers yet, but I assume they are just normal Kenner stickers, following the theory that POCH (PBP) imported all figure parts and only painted and welded them: Class I figures (see page 30).

The screw underneath seems unique when looking at the different types pictured in the COO guide. I can imagine PBP did not import those but just used their own.

From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye).
Remark: the Kenner R2 has a different COO compared to the Spanish R2s, cause I could not find the matching COO so easily.





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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Mon May 20, 2013 2:29 am

Trying to summarize the DV discussion... study

1) PBP/Palitoy/Clipper Vader

A Darth Vader figure having a scarred Hong Kong COO appeared on PBP 65-backs, Palitoy 65-backs,....and in Clipper baggies without anything printed on them (opposed to the "Made in Macau" Clipper baggies).



It is somewhat difficult to see the differences between COO#8 and #9 in Wolff's guide. They both look like scarred out COOs, with (COO#8 ) and without (COO#9) a remaining “H”. The differences between #8 and #9 are only minimal, and therefore could well represent a pair of steel molds.

Now take a look at Alex's picture (below). It shows the small differences between COO#8 and COO#9 more clearly and confirms what is said above.
Based upon the paired steel mold theory, the PBP/Palitoy/Clipper Vader can come with COO#8 and COO#9.

COO#8 (right). COO#9 (left).

Source: General Kahn.


Probably this Vader was produced in Spain by PBP, not in an Asian factory.

The PBP/Clipper/Palitoy Vader often comes with a thick "textured" cape, sometimes called leather cape or roguse cape. The cape has a little step on the edge.


@snaggletooth wrote:


These accessories are what I got from Alex out of a damaged Clipper Baggie he opened.


The back has a small leather pattern.


The inside has a smaller leather pattern and is lined




Source: javiswspain.


More here:
http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t3603-are-either-of-these-clipper-darth-vader-figures
http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t3346-darth-vador-in-baggie
http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1092084/





2) Possible Spanish exclusive Vader

The Darth Vader figure which seems to be exclusive for Spain has a COO which looks different. It has a remaining “H” and a 'melted down' in stead of 'scarred out' COO.

Melted down COO.

Source: Flycasual.

Might this COO be a transition going from COO#6 to COO#8/#9: unsure
  • COO#6: Hong Kong.
  • Melted down COO: Hong Kong still partially visible.
  • COO#8: Hong Kong scarred out with remaining "H".
  • COO#9: Hong Kong completely scarred out.


It could be imagined that only low numbers of these 'melted down COO' figures were produced. "Hong Kong" was still clearly visible on these figures and maybe that was the reason these figures were not exported outside of Spain (Just brainstorming here Very Happy ). Soon it was then decided to modify the steel moulds to completely remove "Hong Kong" to get COO#8/#9. These were then the figures appearing on PBP and Palitoy 65-backs and Clipper baggies.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Mon May 20, 2013 3:15 am

An excellent summary of the Vader coo's Marco, clear and informative. thanks very much mate. :clap: :clap: :clap:
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Mon May 20, 2013 3:38 am

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked WWWOOOOOWWWWWW Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

Kenneth..... awesome Leia Hoth!!!!!!! Really nice and in great shape. Well done. what can I say regarding the bossk??? they are stunnings. Great pictures shared here.

Dr Dengar..... I have great words for you too!!!!!!! Incredible R2D2 show!!!!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


CONGRATULATIONS BOTH those great figures.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Mon May 20, 2013 6:12 am

New and incredible stuff is surfacing around us... it is great Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Kenneth, you share with us an incredible Bossk POCH colection :Drool: :Drool: :Drool: :Drool: :Drool: :Drool:

Following your steps I want to share my 2 bossk. One is sure 100% pbp and the other one should be too but the way how it has been painted is a little bit different.....
Main features:
-extremely front fat lip
-black cross and black area under the neck
-white paint is more glossy than in the partner in the belt area in fron and back.
-Different paint in the white armour on the back

is this figure just a regular pbp one painted in a different way???
Maybe a transition figure???
Any other suggestion????

It is probably a pbp one too but I find this figure very interesting, don't you??

On the left, the "rare"? pbp and on the right the pbp one.











Next one: A zombie sw figure lol!

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue May 21, 2013 4:28 am

As I promised here you are a sw zombie Shocked Shocked Shocked

this figure has 2 factory errors. Sure you can find them.









Nice zombie :-) The figure surprise for himself. C9.5 condition.

Next figure R2D2 to compare with Dengar show.



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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 22, 2013 6:15 am

Thank you Dr Dengar.
A perfect summary for Vader. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 22, 2013 6:56 am

@ackbar100 wrote:
New and incredible stuff is surfacing around us... it is great Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Kenneth, you share with us an incredible Bossk POCH colection :Drool: :Drool: :Drool: :Drool: :Drool: :Drool:

Following your steps I want to share my 2 bossk. One is sure 100% pbp and the other one should be too but the way how it has been painted is a little bit different.....
Main features:
-extremely front fat lip
-black cross and black area under the neck
-white paint is more glossy than in the partner in the belt area in fron and back.
-Different paint in the white armour on the back

is this figure just a regular pbp one painted in a different way???
Maybe a transition figure???
Any other suggestion????

It is probably a pbp one too but I find this figure very interesting, don't you??

On the left, the "rare"? pbp and on the right the pbp one.











Next one: A zombie sw figure lol!

Great PBP Bossks you have there Ackbar 100!!
the one on the left looks like hand painted black cross and the black band near to the neck??? scratch scratch the white paint on back looks weird aswell...amzing contion on both anyway pirat
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 22, 2013 7:29 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:
Next figure.....R2-D2!!


Below you see pics made from three R2s, all orginating from Spanish childhood collections. A Kenner R2 is included on the left in every picture.


From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (unpainted dull dome, normal sized red eye). (3) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye). (4) Same as (3).


From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (unpainted dull dome, normal sized red eye). (3) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye). (4) Same as (3).


From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (unpainted dull dome, normal sized red eye). (3) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye). (4) Same as (3).


From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye).


From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye).


From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye).


From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye).


From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye).



From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye).


All three Spanish R2s have a duller dome compared to the Kenner figure. Two of them have a small red eye, the other with unpainted dome (factory error?) has a normal sized red eye.

The blue of the legs seems slightly darker, but the difference is very subtle.


I haven't checked the stickers yet, but I assume they are just normal Kenner stickers, following the theory that POCH (PBP) imported all figure parts and only painted and welded them: Class I figures (see page 30).

The screw underneath seems unique when looking at the different types pictured in the COO guide. I can imagine PBP did not import those but just used their own.

From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye).
Remark: the Kenner R2 has a different COO compared to the Spanish R2s, cause I could not find the matching COO so easily.





Very interesting figure and IMHO one of the hardest to confirm as "Poch variant " or more correctly should be called" PBP -EIC(ESB) variant"
I have found 8-10 possible "Poch" diferent R2-D2´s.I have in may collection for instance those two R2´s BUT you can find aswell the painted dome one with big red eye and a few different blue paint on legs and different screw combinations...So is not easy to figure out if there are more than one ESB Spanish R2´s when you are handeling more than 10 different R2 found in Spain, scratch scratch I guess i have to investigate more study ....
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 22, 2013 7:51 am

@Kenneth_B wrote:
Now it's time for my personal favourite Poch variant of them all...

This Bossk figure doesn't need any more presentation, since it's one of the most well known and desired Poch figures:

IMG_2140

IMG_2144


No wonder I can't find one of these variants in the wild :Drool:

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 22, 2013 12:58 pm

I recieved this Bespin Luke the other day and would like your opinion on it chaps. First of all it's a MIHK COO smoothed over and it's the chocolate brown boot's version of the figure, which we can assume was sold in Spain as they have turned up with some frequency in childhood collections, that said, it was most common on Palitoy cards. It's just this one has a few Poch traits that he others I've seen haven't, see what you think.




The typical pale hands, again the majourity of hese figures have pale hands in comparrison, but much more Pink in colour. The other hand is a completely different colour, but I believe that the arm is not the one the figure started with, the back torso is cracked which allows for that particular arms to be removed, at some point I suspect the figure was crushed on that side and maybe that arm was damaged and replaced.


Finally the good old melt marks on his arse. I also have a dark boot Luke with the melt marks, but I've not come across them on the Chocolate boots version before. The head plastic colour is darker than all my other figures from this specific COO family.

I know it's not a Poch/PBP pecific figure, more Palitoy than anything, but I suspect this one maybe from Spain and I'd like to hear your thoughts.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 22, 2013 3:31 pm

In My oppinion is a Spanish figure or at last he is easy To find in Spain .looks like that figure have mixed arms BUT both paint squemes can be found in Spain.the more common is the pale one though.in My oppinion Spain produced Two slightly different paint squemes , the one with pale colours was SOLD in in Spain majorly and the one which look like Kenner for UK,Belgium,france and Germany majorly.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 22, 2013 3:41 pm

@ Chris, Oscar: : Thanks for your kind words on the summary of the DV discussion. Very Happy

@ Ackbar: Great that you shared your PBP Bossk and BBG figures.

I like that zombie paint error a lot. Very Happy

I was thinking about your left PBP Bossk figure. Might the smaller cross and smaller black area below the red collar be a result of too little paint applied via paint mask?


@ Javi: Thanks for chiming in my friend. Very Happy
I can imagine that there is a wide range of subtle differences possible for R2, and probably other figures as well.
Did you also found R2s with unpainted domes? Just wondering how common/uncommon this factory error might be.
Will respond to your PM later, my friend!


@ Alex: Congrats on your chocolate (caramel?) boots figure. You can also see these bottom meltmarks on the PBP Rebel Commander. Maybe a sign that the welding process was still not optimal when PBP started to produce their own figures (Class III figures). Just a theory off course.



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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 22, 2013 3:58 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:


I was thinking about your left PBP Bossk figure. Might the smaller cross and smaller black area below the red collar be a result of too little paint applied via paint mask?


@ Javi: Thanks for chiming in my friend. Very Happy
I can imagine that there is a wide range of subtle differences possible for R2, and probably other figures as well.
Did you also found R2s with unpainted domes? Just wondering how common/uncommon this factory error might be.
Will respond to your PM later, my friend!


It might be, Dr Dengar, a poor paint aplication, but I can not assure 100%

About the R2D2, please find attached some pictures. I got this figures from a friend so 100% Spain located. You can take your own conclusion. Sorry for the bad shape.













I hope this helps.


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 22, 2013 4:01 pm

Cheers for the input Javi & Marco, always much appreciated.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Thu May 23, 2013 2:45 pm

Hey Everybody, I'm looking to purchase my first pbp figures and need some price opinions. Sorry no pics Sad
They are from another collector.

1. Walrusman carded (ROTJ "made in Spain")- c7 card, 2 stickers, punched and blister is slightly yellowed.

2. Hammerhead carded (ROTJ "made in Spain")- c8 card, unpunched, slight wave in card

3. Snaggletooth carded (ROTJ "made in Spain")- c6 card, slight crease in card, yellow blister. I noticed he had a Bespin blaster.

Any help on these would be much appreciated...
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Thu May 23, 2013 3:10 pm

@Boomstick66 wrote:
Hey Everybody, I'm looking to purchase my first pbp figures and need some price opinions. Sorry no pics Sad
They are from another collector.

1. Walrusman carded (ROTJ "made in Spain")- c7 card, 2 stickers, punched and blister is slightly yellowed.

2. Hammerhead carded (ROTJ "made in Spain")- c8 card, unpunched, slight wave in card

3. Snaggletooth carded (ROTJ "made in Spain")- c6 card, slight crease in card, yellow blister. I noticed he had a Bespin blaster.

Any help on these would be much appreciated...

This is always difficult because everybody has his point of view.

IN MY OPINION:
Walrusman: 75 euros
Snaggletooth: 50 euros (it is the most common)
Hammerhead: it is the best of all 3. It could be around 300 euros

Again, it is my opinion, sorry if other don't think in the same way.


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Thu May 23, 2013 3:32 pm

@ackbar100 wrote:








I hope this helps.



Ackbar, thanks for posting the pics of your Spanish R2.
To me it looks like a child was very creative with a red marker. Very Happy Which makes the R2 pretty cool actually.

Apart from that your figure has the same date stamp as my three figures from Spain. Moreover the screw seems to be the same...
Interesting!


@Dr Dengar wrote:


From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (unpainted dull dome, normal sized red eye). (3) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye). (4) Same as (3).



The screw underneath seems unique when looking at the different types pictured in the COO guide. I can imagine PBP did not import those but just used their own.

From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye).
Remark: the Kenner R2 has a different COO compared to the Spanish R2s, cause I could not find the matching COO so easily.

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Fri May 24, 2013 4:25 pm

Jota sent me some pictures of his POCH R2-D2.

Date stamp, screw, dull dome,...it all matches with those shown before by me and Ackbar.

Thank you for sharing these pics for this thread here, Jota! Very Happy








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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun May 26, 2013 6:22 am

Somehow, I always thought that the Rebel Commander with very dark ("black") boots was released in the same era as typical PBP figures like the pale face CCP, pale face Luke Hoth, etc.


That was till today when I saw Michael's FS thread. It seems that the dark boots Rebel Commander was already released on 37/41A backs.

Dark brown boots Rebel Commander on 37/41A back.

Source: MichifromHell.

Dark brown boots Rebel Commander on 37/41A back.

Source: MichifromHell.


The dark boots RC also made an appearance on 37/41C backs.


Dark brown boots Rebel Commander with original 37/41C back from which it came.

Source: starwarsspanishstuff.info



And later the figure appeared on Trilogo cards, and probably PBP 65-backs as well? (please post a picture of a PBP 65-back MOC if you have found one)

Dark brown boots Rebel Commander on Trilgo card.

Source: MikeSkywalker.



It makes sense that the dark boots Rebel Commander was already released in the early POCH days. The figure has typical POCH characteristics, like a Hong Kong COO and often melt marks which might be due to a suboptimal welding process. Following the theory presented on page 30, the dark boots Rebel Commander would be a Class I figure, so a figure which was made from parts, which were imported, painted and then welded by PBP (POCH).
In that case this figure would not have a typical PBP smell, like the Class III figures....who likes to check? Very Happy (I catched a cold, and my nose isn't working today).


BTW: Interestingly a Rebel Commander with light brown boots was also released on 37/41A backs. So it appears that there are at least two POCH variants for the Rebel Commander.


Light brown boots Rebel Commander on 37/41A back.

Source: starwarsspanishstuff.info



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THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE

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