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 THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE

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General Kahn
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 22, 2013 12:58 pm

I recieved this Bespin Luke the other day and would like your opinion on it chaps. First of all it's a MIHK COO smoothed over and it's the chocolate brown boot's version of the figure, which we can assume was sold in Spain as they have turned up with some frequency in childhood collections, that said, it was most common on Palitoy cards. It's just this one has a few Poch traits that he others I've seen haven't, see what you think.




The typical pale hands, again the majourity of hese figures have pale hands in comparrison, but much more Pink in colour. The other hand is a completely different colour, but I believe that the arm is not the one the figure started with, the back torso is cracked which allows for that particular arms to be removed, at some point I suspect the figure was crushed on that side and maybe that arm was damaged and replaced.


Finally the good old melt marks on his arse. I also have a dark boot Luke with the melt marks, but I've not come across them on the Chocolate boots version before. The head plastic colour is darker than all my other figures from this specific COO family.

I know it's not a Poch/PBP pecific figure, more Palitoy than anything, but I suspect this one maybe from Spain and I'd like to hear your thoughts.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 22, 2013 3:31 pm

In My oppinion is a Spanish figure or at last he is easy To find in Spain .looks like that figure have mixed arms BUT both paint squemes can be found in Spain.the more common is the pale one though.in My oppinion Spain produced Two slightly different paint squemes , the one with pale colours was SOLD in in Spain majorly and the one which look like Kenner for UK,Belgium,france and Germany majorly.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 22, 2013 3:41 pm

@ Chris, Oscar: : Thanks for your kind words on the summary of the DV discussion. Very Happy

@ Ackbar: Great that you shared your PBP Bossk and BBG figures.

I like that zombie paint error a lot. Very Happy

I was thinking about your left PBP Bossk figure. Might the smaller cross and smaller black area below the red collar be a result of too little paint applied via paint mask?


@ Javi: Thanks for chiming in my friend. Very Happy
I can imagine that there is a wide range of subtle differences possible for R2, and probably other figures as well.
Did you also found R2s with unpainted domes? Just wondering how common/uncommon this factory error might be.
Will respond to your PM later, my friend!


@ Alex: Congrats on your chocolate (caramel?) boots figure. You can also see these bottom meltmarks on the PBP Rebel Commander. Maybe a sign that the welding process was still not optimal when PBP started to produce their own figures (Class III figures). Just a theory off course.



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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 22, 2013 3:58 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:


I was thinking about your left PBP Bossk figure. Might the smaller cross and smaller black area below the red collar be a result of too little paint applied via paint mask?


@ Javi: Thanks for chiming in my friend. Very Happy
I can imagine that there is a wide range of subtle differences possible for R2, and probably other figures as well.
Did you also found R2s with unpainted domes? Just wondering how common/uncommon this factory error might be.
Will respond to your PM later, my friend!


It might be, Dr Dengar, a poor paint aplication, but I can not assure 100%

About the R2D2, please find attached some pictures. I got this figures from a friend so 100% Spain located. You can take your own conclusion. Sorry for the bad shape.













I hope this helps.


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed May 22, 2013 4:01 pm

Cheers for the input Javi & Marco, always much appreciated.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Thu May 23, 2013 2:45 pm

Hey Everybody, I'm looking to purchase my first pbp figures and need some price opinions. Sorry no pics Sad
They are from another collector.

1. Walrusman carded (ROTJ "made in Spain")- c7 card, 2 stickers, punched and blister is slightly yellowed.

2. Hammerhead carded (ROTJ "made in Spain")- c8 card, unpunched, slight wave in card

3. Snaggletooth carded (ROTJ "made in Spain")- c6 card, slight crease in card, yellow blister. I noticed he had a Bespin blaster.

Any help on these would be much appreciated...
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Thu May 23, 2013 3:10 pm

@Boomstick66 wrote:
Hey Everybody, I'm looking to purchase my first pbp figures and need some price opinions. Sorry no pics Sad
They are from another collector.

1. Walrusman carded (ROTJ "made in Spain")- c7 card, 2 stickers, punched and blister is slightly yellowed.

2. Hammerhead carded (ROTJ "made in Spain")- c8 card, unpunched, slight wave in card

3. Snaggletooth carded (ROTJ "made in Spain")- c6 card, slight crease in card, yellow blister. I noticed he had a Bespin blaster.

Any help on these would be much appreciated...

This is always difficult because everybody has his point of view.

IN MY OPINION:
Walrusman: 75 euros
Snaggletooth: 50 euros (it is the most common)
Hammerhead: it is the best of all 3. It could be around 300 euros

Again, it is my opinion, sorry if other don't think in the same way.


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Thu May 23, 2013 3:32 pm

@ackbar100 wrote:








I hope this helps.



Ackbar, thanks for posting the pics of your Spanish R2.
To me it looks like a child was very creative with a red marker. Very Happy Which makes the R2 pretty cool actually.

Apart from that your figure has the same date stamp as my three figures from Spain. Moreover the screw seems to be the same...
Interesting!


@Dr Dengar wrote:


From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (unpainted dull dome, normal sized red eye). (3) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye). (4) Same as (3).



The screw underneath seems unique when looking at the different types pictured in the COO guide. I can imagine PBP did not import those but just used their own.

From left to right: (1) Kenner. (2) Spanish (painted dull dome, small sized red eye).
Remark: the Kenner R2 has a different COO compared to the Spanish R2s, cause I could not find the matching COO so easily.

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Fri May 24, 2013 4:25 pm

Jota sent me some pictures of his POCH R2-D2.

Date stamp, screw, dull dome,...it all matches with those shown before by me and Ackbar.

Thank you for sharing these pics for this thread here, Jota! Very Happy








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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun May 26, 2013 6:22 am

Somehow, I always thought that the Rebel Commander with very dark ("black") boots was released in the same era as typical PBP figures like the pale face CCP, pale face Luke Hoth, etc.


That was till today when I saw Michael's FS thread. It seems that the dark boots Rebel Commander was already released on 37/41A backs.

Dark brown boots Rebel Commander on 37/41A back.

Source: MichifromHell.

Dark brown boots Rebel Commander on 37/41A back.

Source: MichifromHell.


The dark boots RC also made an appearance on 37/41C backs.


Dark brown boots Rebel Commander with original 37/41C back from which it came.

Source: starwarsspanishstuff.info



And later the figure appeared on Trilogo cards, and probably PBP 65-backs as well? (please post a picture of a PBP 65-back MOC if you have found one)

Dark brown boots Rebel Commander on Trilgo card.

Source: MikeSkywalker.



It makes sense that the dark boots Rebel Commander was already released in the early POCH days. The figure has typical POCH characteristics, like a Hong Kong COO and often melt marks which might be due to a suboptimal welding process. Following the theory presented on page 30, the dark boots Rebel Commander would be a Class I figure, so a figure which was made from parts, which were imported, painted and then welded by PBP (POCH).
In that case this figure would not have a typical PBP smell, like the Class III figures....who likes to check? Very Happy (I catched a cold, and my nose isn't working today).


BTW: Interestingly a Rebel Commander with light brown boots was also released on 37/41A backs. So it appears that there are at least two POCH variants for the Rebel Commander.


Light brown boots Rebel Commander on 37/41A back.

Source: starwarsspanishstuff.info



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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun May 26, 2013 7:19 am

I can confirm the bb RS rotj 65 back(i have To have Got saved picts somewhere in the Mac scratch ) , Andy offerd one of those two Years ago or so.
In My oppinion those Bb were PBP overstock from the EIC(ESB) production.most of those Bb have melt marks on back, it was in 2010 when i realized about the melt marks when nobody didnt cares about them Cool ...

There are two slightly different BB Boots , one of them more Brown-redish dark colour and other more brown-greenish dark colour.the strap on the hood are painted in the same boot colours, Btw
The RC with "regular" Boots is a very interesting variant, i have found two confirmend versions and i have other one or two "on hold"for confirmation, but i dont have too Hopes in that ones though.


Last edited by javiswspain on Sun May 26, 2013 7:26 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun May 26, 2013 4:43 pm

Apologize if I break this interesting and smooth conversation about the rebel soldier.

I have been requested to post those pictures here about my luke brown hair. In my opinion this figue has a lot of interesting features.











see you soon Very Happy


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun May 26, 2013 8:32 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:
In that case this figure would not have a typical PBP smell, like the Class III figures....who likes to check? Very Happy (I catched a cold, and my nose isn't working today).
Mine has a very slight "PBP" smell.

Even though he has a COO stamp etc., I think he fits in better with the scarred figures.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Mon May 27, 2013 3:47 pm

@ackbar100 wrote:







@Dr Dengar wrote:
Below you see an interesting Luke Farmboy line-up.

From left to right:
1) Kenner, COO #1 (2 line HK), brown hair
2) Figure from Spain, COO #1 (2 line HK), brown hair
3) Confirmed POCH, COO #6 (3 line HK), blond hair







The figure in the middle is interesting and has a lot of POCH characteristics in common with the confirmed POCH Luke on the right:
- Pale hands
- Pale neck
- Greenish brown boots.

BTW: The same greenish brown boots can also be seen on the two Spanish Leia Hoth figures (one confirmed and one assumed POCH).

From left to right: 1. Leia (Kenner). 2. Leia (from Spain). 3. POCH Leia. 4. POCH Luke (not a DT saber BTW, just a broken tip Very Happy).




But there are also some clear differences between the middle figure and the POCH Luke on the right.....





First the different COO. (2 line HK vs 3 line HK). How to explain that? unsure

Actually it makes sense assuming PBP imported unpainted overstock from Asia from different factories. Each factory used their own pair of molds marked with their own COOs. Eventually plastic parts originating from different Asian factories got mixed up in the PBP factory and after painting these were welded into complete figures.
This would explain why some POCH figures can appear with two different HK COOs on different figures (sometimes even on the same figure). Luke Farmboy would not be the only example. Think Leia Hoth, and Jawa which were discussed before.


The second and most obvious difference is off course the head, which looks totally different (brown vs blond hair and different facial details, plastic).
Is this a POCH head, like the blond head?

Probably not! Take a look at the head of the Kenner figure on the left. Dark hair colour, facial details, even the mark on the left of the head (probably a mold defect), it all matches!
Probably this head was already painted in Asia before being exported as overstock to PBP. That’s why it has Kenner characteristics and not POCH characteristics. During the welding process this head was assembled with parts that (assumption!) were painted in house (arms, torso, legs, all with POCH traits) to end up in this Class II PBP figure (‘hybrid POCH’).

Kenner (left), Spanish (right).



OK, time for a wrap up: Very Happy
To me it seems that the brown hair Spanish Luke is a Class II PBP figure, having features of Kenner (head) and POCH (the rest).

What's more::
1) Assuming that the 2 line HK COO parts were present and painted in the PBP factory, I can imagine that there also exists a blond POCH Luke with this COO. Time will tell. Very Happy
2) This is not a one of a kind figure. A very similar figure was offered for sale on a Spanish website about a year ago. It was offered at that time with the original cardback, a 41A back.
3) It appears that the 41A backs were not only used for the Class I (pure POCH) figures. At least in case of this brown hair Luke, it seems that Class II figures (hybrid POCH) could also be packed on these early cards (and not first on 41B/C cards).


Source: starwarsspanishstuff.info


Cheers

Hi Ackbar,

Thank you so much for posting pics of your Spanish brown hair Luke Farmboy. Very Happy

The figure looks the same as the one in my collection. Brown hair head, pale hands, pale neck, greenish boots. CHECK, CHECK, CHECK, CHECK! cheers

The COO is dfferent (3-line instead of 2-line). Not a big surprise, assuming POCH imported unpainted parts from different Asian factories, corresponding to different steel moulds (and thus COOs). BTW: My POCH blond Luke has the 3-line COO.

The brown hair head does not look very POCH to me, the paint mask is clearly different from the POCH blond Luke. Instead the head looks like some dark brown hair Kenner figures, including the mould deformation on the right side of the head.

Does your figure also has this mould deformation on the right side?




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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue May 28, 2013 6:43 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:




The brown hair head does not look very POCH to me, the paint mask is clearly different from the POCH blond Luke. Instead the head looks like some dark brown hair Kenner figures, including the mould deformation on the right side of the head.

Does your figure also has this mould deformation on the right side?


here you are. It could be that, in the same way than the leg, the head might be a kenner one.....

I hope this helps to clarify. Figure was bought in a street market here in Spain.









cheers


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue May 28, 2013 10:20 am

I also want to attend street markets in Spain! cheers

Interesting Luke Tatooine figure variant in all circumstances all though I agree with Marco, that this variant is most likely a mixed up/hybrid figure. Smile The head could easily be a Kenner overstock part, since it seems very similar to the US dark brown haired Kenner Luke Tatooine head - including the paint "deformation" on the right side on the head.

Thanks very much for sharing this figure with us Ricardo, and if you should find another sample please let me know! Wink
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue May 28, 2013 2:18 pm

@Kenneth_B wrote:


Interesting Luke Tatooine figure variant in all circumstances all though I agree with Marco, that this variant is most likely a mixed up/hybrid figure. Smile The head could easily be a Kenner overstock part, since it seems very similar to the US dark brown haired Kenner Luke Tatooine head - including the paint "deformation" on the right side on the head.


Yea, Kenneth. I have to say that I agree with you and Marco. This figure is really an hybrid figure with parts from different origins. Very Happy Very Happy It is a curious figure alien

cheers
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Thu May 30, 2013 4:06 pm

hey mates,
lately this thread seems dead geek

Now that the weekend is right there is time for a double shake :clap: :clap: :clap:

I hope we get more movement for the coming days.


Yoda: 2 poch and 1 pbp. all accesories are original










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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:35 pm

Thank you Ackbar for posting detail pics of your Spanish brown hair Luke.

The head seems to be the same as in my figure, including the mould deformation.
That is a good sign. Very Happy



Cool Yodas too!! yoda

@ackbar100 wrote:




They have the same looks as my Spanish Yodas. Again a good sign. Very Happy



[*] Yoda (Post #1)
[*] Yoda (Post #2)


@ackbar100 wrote:


I hope we get more movement for the coming days.


I did some work today, see my next post.....
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:37 pm

It is almost one year ago when the new POCH/PBP discussion thread was started here on TIG....Time flies when you are having fun. Very Happy

Personally I have learned a lot from the discussions in the past year, and I hope you do so as well.

To reflect this the introduction in the first post has been completely revised.
Moreover links have been added to posts from members discussing POCH/PBP figures, so it is very easy to find this info from now on


Completely New Introduction


OK time to relax for me right now, been sitting behind the PC way too long now. drinking2


Cheers

Marco

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:58 pm

yes, Marco, you deserve a long relax. Your contribution has been awesome.... AS ALWAYS bow bow bow bow bow bow bow bow bow

Honestly, you have done an incredible job.

Thanks :clap: :clap: :clap:
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:05 pm

[quote="Dr Dengar"]Thank you Ackbar for posting detail pics of your Spanish brown hair Luke
Cool Yodas too!! yoda
@ackbar100 wrote:


They have the same looks as my Spanish Yodas. Again a good sign. Very Happy



[*] Yoda (Post #1)
[*] Yoda (Post #2)


Wow look at the size of the eyes on the yoda on the right in the top pic and the left one on the second pic Shocked , if thats a common poch/PBP trait then that would make em quite easy to spot on ebay.

a really great and informative thread guys, even though i don't post much on here, i really enjoy reading and learning about the different poch/ PBP variant discussions. Your work is greatly appreciated. A big thanks to everyone that contributes to this thread, and huge kudos to Marco for summarising and organising all the newly discovered info into clear and easy to find links and summaries. TIG is by far the best source of reference on all things vintage on the whole of the interweb cheers cheers cheers
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:14 pm

Again, I want to use this post to thank Dr Dengar for this great job updating the introduction of this thread. :clap: :clap: :clap:

This thread is called "the poch/pbp guide & discussion thread"..... this is not a figure but it is poch 100% I am sure.

I hope you like it, this is the easier ship but still hard to find...









more figures coming soon, I still have some left like the rebel soldier poch with iridiscent weapon





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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:48 pm

Hi Ackbar100, congrats on the PBP/Poch X-Wing bow It's a great version and one that I'd like to add one day to my own collection.

If you have the time would you like to add some more pics to our TIG thread: Project Outside The Box


Project Outside The Box has a cool X-Wing section X-Wing Fighter but we only have two pics so far for the PBP/Poch entry.

thanks Smile

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD - PART ONE   Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:51 pm



Thanks for the kind words on the new intro, guys! Very Happy


Wow, POCH X-Wing!!! Nice! :Drool:
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