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 Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo

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PostSubject: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:04 am

1...... anyone have the No Coo version of Leia Organa? This is the one with a poor sonic weld and the Coo very similar to the Glasslite. If you can check the cape and compare to this one please:




threads here about the no coo Leia:

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t3264-is-this-a-glasslite-leia

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t2077-glasslite-leia?highlight=glasslite




2.... Anyone have the Taiwan version Leia Organa with vinyl cape?

The one I have is smaller than the No Coo version:




comparison pic of the two:




thanks for any info!

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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:09 am

Here are some pics of my Leia cape from the No COO (similar to Glasslite)








I think it fits your description with the glossy outside with cross-hatch pattern.


I will try & get some pics up of the Taiwan cape really soon. Hope this helps!

Pat
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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:38 pm

Brilliant, thanks Pat for adding those pics, looks spot on! It's good to get some more confirmation on these capes Cool

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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:14 pm

Hi there. I have a question regarding the leia Taiwan cape and basically this is one of the few hits I got when googling about it. The last reply here is from almost two years ago, but I hope someone can help me with my Leia Taiwan cape issue. There is really very little to no information about this cape.

I have two Leia Taiwan capes. Both have no zipping sound on either side (which is correct to my understanding), but for the rest they are different from each other. unsure unsure

TW cape 1: height 8,7 CM, width 5,5 CM, thin material, one side is matte, the other side has a horizontal lined ridged patern.
TW cape 2: height 8,4 CM, width 5,7 CM, very thin material (thinner than cape 1), both sides are the same and satin/glossy, but NO horizontal lines.

I have compared them to a repro leia cape and they are totally different to that one.

I also have compared them to a Hong Kong leia cape. That cape is also very different. One side has cross hatch patern with a zipping sound, the other side has vertical lined ridged patern, height 8,8 CM, width 5,7 CM, it is a thick material.

By the way, i can not see the pictures from Artoo_Detour. In the first post.

I did compare the capes to the capes on the TIG weapons and accessories guide.

http://www.imperialgunnery.com/vinylcapesskirts.htm

TW cape 2 is similar to the one pictured but i do not know the measurements and i can not see the detail on the cape.

What i found very interesting is that both my taiwan capes have piece missing from one corner as in the picture in the TIG guide. The piece missing is not exactly the same as in the guide though. Also the piece missing is not exactly the same in my two capes.

What I would like to know is are there more versions of the Taiwan capes? Or if there is only one, which one is it. If I had to choose I have more faith in my TW cape 2. The very thin material, that is a bit glossy, but maybe the other one is OK too. I just want to be sure.

Does anyone of you have Leia Taiwan cape with similar dimensions or recognize the horizontal lined patern or the piece missing. For an example of the horizontal lines you can look at the kenobi cape on the TIG guide. When I make a picture of my leia cape you can not see it. Maybe because it is white of maybe because of my camera. The kenobi cape is a good reference.

As for the dimensions. What makes it tricky is that if people have cleaned cape with boiling water it is possible that the cape has shrunk and therefore the dimensions will be different.

Thanks in advance Very Happy Very Happy


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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:00 pm

I don't know all the answers to your questions, but I can tell you the capes have small variants in size regardless of origin. From what I have been told the capes where cut in multiple sheets stacked on each other. I will try to illustrate a bit using my keyboard what I mean.

----------
---------- These three lines represent a stack of vinyl sheets
----------

Now showing those three lines again with the blade coming down
----\|/----
-----|-----
-----|-----

The top layers would be slightly larger due to the vinyl having some give as the blade pushed down thus the slanted lines I show being the vinyl stretching around the straight up and down blade. Same concept as trying to slice a loaf of bread. At first the top pushes down until the blade penetrates the top layer or outer crust then it begins cutting the rest easier. This cutting method that was used created small differences in sizes.m that's the way I understand them being cut anyway. If someone has heard different let me know.

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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:03 am

Lord Hendricus, thanks for posting. It's good to get some more info on these Taiwan capes. I agree not much is known other than a general consensus that the Taiwans are a different material to Kenners and are sometimes shorter or thinner. Btw the photos at the top post are the same as on the Gunnery.

Out of interest I measured mine and it's 8.7 top to bottom and 5.3 across - I think you make a good point that some capes might shrink with the hot water cleaning method, and Bryan also makes a good point about differences in size due to the possible cutting process.

I worked in a print shop and you could see slight discrepencies in card/paper size when cut in stacked layers on a guillotine - especially when the blade had been used multiple times and became dull.

What's interesting is that you have two capes both with a corner cut off thinking  Now I always just assumed mine with the cut corner was due to the original kid owner cutting it or the cape taking damage over the years, but maybe there was a small batch that came out this way and ended up being missed or even passed by QC? If you can put up some photos or PM me with pics I would be interested in seeing these.

As for your two Taiwan capes and their differences - hopefully other Taiwan cape owners can add info. It could be due to the factory running out of cape material and making a new run with the closest material they could find? Who knows really... there is still a lot to be discovered about factory production methods leaving us to continue speculating. But with more collectors like yourself adding to the pool of info we should at least get a little closer.

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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:36 pm

Thanks Bryan and Artoo_Detour for your quick reply.

It took me a while to figure out how to post the pics, but I think I know how to do it now. So here goes nothing.. First of all I attach a pic of both taiwan capes #1 and #2 (outside):



Then a pic of the taiwan cape #1 corner cut off:



And a pic of the taiwan cape #2 corner cut off:



You can see that the corner cut offs are not the same. In cape #1 it is deeper than on cape #2. On cape #2 you can hardly notice it. (maybe cape #1 was higher on the stack than cape #2, like Bryan said,  Very Happy )

I am curious if other TIG members have Taiwan capes with these cut offs or not.

I agree with Bryan that the size of the cape could differ due to the cutting proces. But 0.4 cm difference is a lot I think. I asume that there was more than one cutting machine in taiwan. So maybe they where not the same size. I say this because the form of the two capes is not exactly the same.

By the way Artoo_detour did you measure the 5.3 cm width at the bottom or in the middle of the cape. I measured both my capes at the bottom (maybe it is better to measure it in the middle because of the corner cut off). There would also be a difference because at the the bottom the cape is a bit wider than in the middle.

Just below the armholes my cape #1 measures 5.0 cm and cape #2 5.3 cm.

As for the material of the cape. It could be that the factory ran out of material and just took another sheet of plastic.  scratch  scratch We will probably never know. But maybe there are members out there that are 100% sure that their cape is legit. So i would like to encourage people to post the charecteristics (matte/satin/glossy/ridged etc..) of their taiwan cape material.

Artoo_Detour did your cape have the horizontal lined ridged patern on one side or not. Or is it the same on both sides? And is it satin or matte?

Finally I also attach pics of the inside of the capes. First #1



And #2

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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:55 pm

Cape 1 has a really jagged edge and is not a clean cut so I would say that is damage from some point in the items history. The second one looks much cleaner or sharper of a cut. There are vader capes that have what has been referred to as a "step" in them so this may be the same type of thing as those. They are usually associated with PBP vaders I believe so that would put the vaders production in spain, but possible other cutting machines received the same wear or were made the same way? Like you said though I would imagine they had more than one cutting machine for capes. Makes sense that they would since they had at least mold pairs for the figures so two molds making figures would mean they would need two capes at the same pressing also? Since the capes were cut in sheets it is possible that they didn't need two machines but who knows.

I am far from an expert on the minute details and my main focus is on ledy so I spend more time researching out Mexican made items than any other line.

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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:07 pm

I agree, the first looks different from the second. Before I had my second cape I always thought it was damaged by playing or something. But then I thought: How can it get damaged in that way? Only if it got stuck somewhere and it was ripped loose. When I got the second cape and I saw the same type of damage (although not identical but similar) I thought that it was to much of a coincidence. Also because of the height of the rip is the same both cases.

Then after reading your post about the cutting machine again today,  I thought. Could it be possible that these were capes made from the bottom sheet out of a stack of sheets and that the cutting machine didn't go all the way through the bottom sheet in the corner of the cape. When the cape was subsequently torn loose from the sheet it got ripped in the way it did. Not Always the same , but similar. It is just a theory and could only be proven right if more capes surface with the same rip.

We will have to wait and see.
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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:24 am



@LORD HENDRICUS wrote:

Artoo_Detour did your cape have the horizontal lined ridged patern on one side or not. Or is it the same on both sides? And is it satin or matte?

The one side has a very faint horizontal ridged pattern not as defined as the Ben cape on the Gnnery. Both sides are matte.



@LORD HENDRICUS wrote:

By the way Artoo_detour did you measure the 5.3 cm width at the bottom or in the middle of the cape. I measured both my capes at the bottom (maybe it is better to measure it in the middle because of the corner cut off). There would also be a difference because at the the bottom the cape is a bit wider than in the middle.

I measured it at its widest point just above the cut corner. Then lengthways from the top middle down.

Thanks for adding your pics. Hopefully other members will chime in with info as well.

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PostSubject: Hoping mine is taiwan as well   Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:16 pm

Hopefully, my picture shows up!

Anyway, I recently purchased a very nice figure with authentic v3 blue semi trans. weapon, I believe I have a Taiwan cape as well, please advise after reviewing the following:

Is it uncommon to purchase a Hong Kong figure with a Taiwan cape these days with all the reselling?

Is it uncommon for a Taiwan cape to not "zip"?

Characteristics:

Texture - smooth on both sides - 1 side glossier than the other similar texture both sides, "no zip", maybe slight vertical striations on less glossy side its hard to tell with the white cape.

My texture looks nothing like the "orange peel" mess that repro pic on TIG looks like.  The texture under magnification is very similar to the texture of my Obi and Vader cap I just can't tell if they are linear or not.

The distance from the arm hole to the top seem to match the pic's for a Taiwan cape on the TIG cape reference page.

Dimensions:  top to bottom = 8.5 cm / bottom width tip to tip = 5.9 cm / just under arm hole width = 5 cm / top of arm hole to top of cape 1.7 cm

** One thing that jumps out at me is at the bottom of the cape 1 corner seems to be concave and 1 corner appears to be convex very similar to the pics on TIG.  However, the "repro" pic on TIG definitely has 2 concave corners.

PIC #1 - BOTTOM CONVEX / CONCAVE CORNERS - NONGLOSSY SIDE
PIC #2 - ARM HOLE TO TOP DISTANCE - NONGLOSSY
PIC #3 - ARM HOLE TO TOP DISTANCE - GLOSSY SIDE
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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:36 am

Thanks for adding your pics and info Jacaroni. To answer:

"Is it uncommon to purchase a Hong Kong figure with a Taiwan cape these days with all the reselling?"

Imo yes but I still think it's possible that a Taiwan cape can end up on Kenner figure and vice versa due to loose capes and figures being matched up by buyers and sellers over the years. Can't discount factories changing material stock between runs either.

"Is it uncommon for a Taiwan cape to not "zip"?"

Based on what is known and agreed in the community the capes don't zip. Mine has a very faint ridged horizontal pattern on one side - hardly noticable - and I can't get it to zip.




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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:21 pm

Thanks for posting the info Jackaroni. I agree with Artoo_Detour on both his answers.

My TW cape #1 has a faint HORIZONTAL patern on one side. I have a hong kong cape with a VERTICAL patern.

I measured the capes from the armholes to the top as Jackaroni did and the measurements are for both my taiwan capes 1,7cm. I also measured my hong kong cape and that one measured 1,9cm from the armholes to the top.

To summarize the details of my TW capes: (topbottom /width under armhole/ width bottom / heigth above armhole / material of cape on both sides):

TW cape 1: 8,7 / 5,0 / 5,5 / 1,7  (matte / matte with horizontal patern)
TW cape 2: 8,4 / 5,3 / 5,7/ 1,7 (satin / satin)

A measured the TW cape of a friend of mine a week ago and the details of his TW cape are (this cape is allmost identical to my cape #2):

8,3 / 5,2 / 5,5 / ?,? (satin / satin)

There is no zipping sound on any capes.

It could be that the difference of the TW capes has to do with the fig. There are TW leia's with different faces and also different colour of the hands. I will try to upload a picture tomorrow. I am curious to see a picture of the face and hands of the leia figure of Artoo_Detour since it also has a cape with a horizontal patern and very similar measurements to my TW cape #1. Maybe the figs are also the same.


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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:24 pm

Thanks for the information!

I cannot find any horizontal striations on either side, so even though the textures under magnification seem very similar I guess I will have to consider it a fake Sad

I do have a reproduction cape coming in the mail, I will update this post if I see any similarities or differences.

Finally, for future reference could someone tell me if all Hong Kong Leia capes "zip"?

Thanks again!
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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:46 pm

@jackaroni

I would NOT conclude it as a fake yet. Only one of my TW capes has the horizontal lines. I also have a TW that does NOT have the horizontal lines. It's satin on both sides. My friends cape also does NOT have horizontal lines and it's satin on both sides.

And maybe your definition of glossy is my definition of satin.

I would say glossy is the glossy side of the YPS snowtrooper cape. None of my taiwan capes is glossy like that. Is your cape that glossy?

When you recieve the repro cape at least you can exclude it to be that type of repro cape. I also compared my TW capes to a repro cape and it was clearly different. However, is there only one type of repro cape around. Who knows?unsure unsure

As for the zipping sound. I have had 3 HK capes and they all made zipping sound.
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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:45 pm

@jackaroni

@LORD HENDRICUS wrote:
@jackaroni

I would NOT conclude it as a fake yet.


Agree. Hang on to it until more research is made.


@LORD HENDRICUS wrote:
@jackaroni

As for the zipping sound. I have had 3 HK capes and they all made zipping sound.

I have one HK cape and can confirm it makes the zipping sound.

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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:16 pm

It could be that there is more than one type of TW cape and that each type of cape belongs to a type of TW leia figure. Therefore i decided to upload a picture of two taiwan leia's with different faces and different colour hands.

In this next picture the TW leia figure on the right is the one with cape #1. That is the cape with the horizontal lines on one side of the cape. Both sides are matte, but one side has the horizontal lines.

The TW leia figure on the left has a very thin cape (cape #2) which is satin on both sides. Both sides are the same. No horizontal or vertical lines.



Here is another picture of TW Leia #1 but now with the cape in upward position (to be clear this is the same figure as the one on the right in the picture above):




@ Artoo_Detour: is your figure (the one with the cape with horizontal lines) like the leia on the right #1 or left #2?

Thanx in advance


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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:44 pm

I'd already posted my TW Leia elsewhere on the site so can copy it here direct for you to see,

from http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t4176-the-tig-fotw-thread-princess-leia

Artoo_Detour wrote:


Taiwan Leia




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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:25 pm

Thanx for posting the pic. This is actually very helpful cheers cheers cheers cheers

I think this is the same Leia TW as my # 1 (the figure on the right). I base that on the eyebrows and the colour of the hands. You said your figure had a cape with horizontal lines. My TW leia #1 also came with a cape with the horizontal lines. Therefore, I am more confident now that that could be the correct cape for that figure, I mean the one with these eyebrows and colour hands.

It could be that the satin TW cape without horizontal lines came if other types of Taiwan leia's. On the other hand, at the moment this is pure speculation.

Maybe in the future we will know for sure if more people will post the details of their TW leia figs.

For now I am pretty satisfied.

By the way: On the internet I have also seen another variant TW leia's with small dots on the belt. Who knows, maybe also a specific cape can be attributed to that figure.
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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:24 am



Quickly went through my Leia's, let me know if you need anymore pics?...

Group shot, 1 to 4 on the top row, left to right. 5 to 7 on the bottom row left to right.

Don't ask why some pics are rotated by 90 degrees, my image hoster is playing the silly bugger!!

The only two capes I have which make zipping noises are the MADE IN HONG KONG and MADE IN TAIWAN, all the other including the POCH are smooth.



1. Family VI-1 - Hong Kong (Kenner)






2. Family III-2 - No COO (Glasslite)






3. Family I-1 - Hong Kong (Kenner)






4. Family V -Made In Taiwan (Kenner)





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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:53 am

5. Family IV-2 - No COO (Kenner)






6. Family II - Made In Hong Kong (Kenner)






7. Family II - Made In Hong Kong (POCH)





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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:18 am

My only comment is that over the years I've sold dozens of capes. Really the MOCs are the only way to look for consistency

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PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:10 pm

WOW Walkie. Nice Leia collection. Thanx for all the pictures. So you have a Leia Taiwan cape with zipping sound. thinking

Then I am affraid that DarthBerizing has a point. Only MOC can give certainty. The problem is that you can not measure a MOC cape and you can not check a MOC cape for zipping sound. The only thing that remains is to check with a MOC cape is whether it is Matte, Satin or Glossy. I supose that that it is possible to verify even if you have to look through the plastic of the bubble. Spotting a line patern will however be more difficult I presume.

My goal was A) to verify that the two TW capes were legit TW capes and B) to verify if TW cape #1 or TW cape #2 belonged to a specific TW leia. My idea was that if enough TW leia's would surface with a cape as mine that I could conclude that the capes were real and if they allways appeared with a certain type of taiwan leia that I could conclude that it was probable that the cape was correct for that figure. Maybe it is not possible to be certain. But if I would see a couple of TW leia's with the same characteristics then for me that would be enough to assume that my capes are OK.
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Join date : 2016-01-16

PostSubject: Re: Main Site help needed: Leia Organa Vinyl Capes - Taiwan & No coo    Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:05 pm

Walkie, thanks a ton for posting these "pics"! When I compare them to my cape, feel free to reference the pics I posted earlier in this thread, I noticed the following:

I definitely have the "family" or "type II" - 1A with the . above the "K" in Kong.

The total length (8.5mm) and width of cape at bottom (5.9mm) almost exactly match the distances shown in your pic by the ruler.

Likewise, when I extrapolate your ruler in the pic to a piece of paper - old school paper map distance method, the measurements match my cape almost exactly at: 1. The width just below the armhole (5mm) and 2. The length from the top of the armholes to the top of the cape (1.7mm) and 3. the armhole diameter (5.5mm) depending on stretch.

Also, the tip corners match with one a little convex and one a little concave. Most repro's that I have seen in my limited observations have both tips flaring out on each side.

The cape in general has (1) glossy side and (1) satin side. The weight does seem slightly thinner than my authentic vader and ben cape but not by much. The feel seems correct.

The texture under magnification matches the smooth side of my vader and ben cape just without the linear striations either vertically or horizontally, although I am not convinced this is not a function of my 43 + year old eyes on a white cape.

Likewise, neither side has the fine cross-hatch pattern both vader and ben have; thus, no "zip".

However, I really think this thing might be authentic and I am leaning towards a HONG KONG cape now since both sides aren't satin and I have no horizontal lines, maybe Hong Kong forgot to stimple one side on this roll of material with the cross hatch pattern - wishful thinking anyway.

Thank you all for this thread it has been most informative!!!!!
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