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 Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!

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walkie
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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:58 pm

Must admit, the 2nd one got me  unsure  unsure 

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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:31 pm

@trappedtexan wrote:
Ozio, are you sure that the first one is fake?  I know the dealer and have bought many items from him before.  He is a solid guy so if it is a fake then he was duped and doesn't know.  He is also a member here.  His name is Harold, but I think his seller id and TIG id are close to the same.


Yes it is fake, I'm 100% sure of it. I know Harold too he's a TIG member.
Here's another fake he had on ebay on March:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Original-Vintage-Star-Wars-Lili-Ledy-Red-Bib-fortuna-with-chest-plate-only-/231179189322?pt=US_Action_Figures&hash=item35d35a7c4a

Hey Bryan, this is not something against Harold, I'm just trying to do something about this fake capes, trust me I gain nothing here.  
I don't know if Harold has signed in lately, we talked on this thread about the fake cape he was offering back on March on ebay, now he is offering another one, I'm aware that some sellers just don't know but most of them, just don't WANT to know.

Here's a carded example compared with this two capes:


Hey Walkie, pm sent  Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:40 pm

That is scary. Both that the fakes are getting so good and that some people are turning blind eyes to the authenticity of the capes they are passing along.

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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:47 pm

Edit: Removed by author. -CSlave


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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:24 pm

@CorporateSlave wrote:
@OZIO wrote:
Here's a carded example compared with this two capes:

I have to admit I'm still having a hard time picking out which details to look for in determining the difference between these capes.  Of course, I only have a couple of partial photos of a MOC version to go by, having never held a real version to examine closely.  After all, I have a hard time trusting even photos of MOC burgundy capes, because I'm not enough of a MOC and/or Ledy expert to sniff out a fake or reseal MOC Lili Ledy figure...not to mention the level of preservation of a MOC can make it appear vastly different to even a well kept authentic loose figure. (This I do know for a fact from personal experience with lower value MOC and loose copies of the same - other, common - figure)

Granted the colors are clearly very different - but photos are such an unreliable medium to judge color on - the white balance in each photo is clearly different, going right back to the eBay listings.  Before even reading this post, I did get the sense those same two Burgundy capes were possibly fakes, although I couldn't quite put my finger on why I thought that.  Color mismatch was obviously my first thought - but then again compare the 'skin' color of the three figures in the three photos (2 ebay listings and carded example) - they are so different it is pretty clear that the color temperature of the three source photos are too different to tell with any reliability.  

Additionally, I don't think all (maybe some) of the sellers are 'turning a blind eye' so much as they really aren't convinced about the concerns.  I should probably preface this line of topic with the fact that: 1) I recently bought a burgundy cape Bib from a reputable seller which did not pass Ozio's fake test, and although 2) the seller maintains he truly believes it is authentic (citing among other things, atrocious quality control at Lili Ledy in the 80's which makes some minor inconsistencies likely), 3) he has offered me a full refund, so basically I'm in the clear on all this either way and don't need to be worried if the one currently in my possession is fake or not since I can just get my money back in either case.

So that said, I think we as a collecting community are put in a difficult position here (particularly relatively novice members such as myself), because there are reputable experts on both sides of the issue that maintain they are quite certain of their view.  So who to believe?  I think I use the word 'believe' correctly here - because there is precious little solid evidence that can/will be provided by either side, so as a novice collector you kind of have to choose which trusted resource to take on faith - and not just the faith that they are being honest - since I think both sides are being honest (not counting some scam sellers who probably know full well they are peddling fakes, but those aside).  You also have to decide which side is factually correct - which is another leap of faith in the absence of a known authentic copy to examine in person and compare with yours.  

I totally understand why there is hesitancy to share exact details publicly - whether any given examples are fakes or not, divulging details as to how to tell would allow any counterfeiter in the future to make even better fakes than those being made today, which is clearly counter to everyone's best interests.

So I'm basically stuck in a nutty logic loop here, and I guess I'm just going to have to wait and see how this ultimately pans out - with the unfortunate fact being that I may never really know for certain myself.

I knew I should have stayed away from variants!  :I am stupid:


You still have trouble distinguishing the burgundy cape? OK, it took me 10 years, as it is not only about the color or shape, stitches or how worn it is, its all of those characteristics together.

You don't have to be an expert on MOC or LL, no problem at all, just please do not imply that the example I shared could be a fake or a re-selaed example just because you can't tell, and if you are going to distrust it then prove it as a fake or a re-selaed, but don't take it so lightly it is not easy to have access to such a unique item.

Yes, preservation counts and a lot, I'm aware of that, I don't take lightly my word, that's why I'm sharing a carded example, it's not just my opinion, of course if a carded example its not good enough for you then what is?

At least you see the difference on the color of the capes, I'm aware on how lightning affects an item, day light, direct light, interior light, etc. The original color on the burgundy Bib cape is unique and very distinguishable even with different lightning.

Some sellers don't know, some sellers don't care.

The fact that we both are here discussing these capes not necessarily reflects a collectors community on a hot spot between two sides, as I just see one side here, talking about fake capes, sharing pictures and examples and warning about fake capes for sale on ebay. Where are those other good reputation experts you talk about? Where are those pictures and information they share to prove these capes are original? Please tell me.

I know we all don't have an original Burgundy Bib at hand to compare and determinate if another cape at hand is original, that's precisely the strength of this fake capes.

Yes it is a risk to share to much information, the guys making these capes are reading this as we speak, still more information and pictures are needed.

We can have different opinions, no problem just remember I'm not selling anything to you. I'm only trying to help here and if someone believes that I don't know what I'm talking about please this is an open forum, prove those capes original just don't blame it on the quality control of Lili Ledy, share those carded examples, pictures, information, please.
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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:32 pm

Edit: Removed by author. -CSlave


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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:48 pm

I have to jump in this thread ....

First of all...that is my LL MOC Bib Fortuna with Burgundy Cape, as far as I know , there are only 4 known examples that are 100% factory sealed , and mine is the only one available to compare and use it again scammers ( all the other ones seem to be lock up in private chambers)...as Ozio also stated, where are the LL " experts" that claim they help people, where are their pictures???... where do they post the info they have found about this particular item.... the answer is easy!..

As Ozio Stated also, he took years to learn about this fake capes, and for me has been the same, Im sure I probably sell one thinking it was the correct cape.

But now things have change... I have this nice MOC example to compare all the burgundys out there, and Ozio and I have found the patterns that makes us to say if its fake or not, now, I dont think you CorporateSlave have the right to question my knowledge in LL MOC's , I dont really care if you trust or not a partial PIC of a MOC example of BFGC, you should just thank me for sharing info like that one, as nobody else do it!! , Now, Ive owned over 100 LL MOC examples 100% factory sealed (saying that probably sounds easy, but anybody that have been around collecting any kind of MOC's will know that is quite an amazing and impossible task), so that's not even something that I have to argue with you.

I've discuss with people like you over the years and mainly time has proven me right all the times!!...

Ive have warn a lot of people that trust me about fakes that are surfacing out there, mostly all those red capes are home made, is their choice to buy them or not,I dont think Ozio or myself will reveal which patterns we are looking for... is like telling the counterfeiters how to do better their job....

Now, I understand that for me is extremely easy to spot a fake, but for everybody else is going to be difficult because you are comparing them vs another fake..

I will say it again..Plsssssssss stop buying loose Lili ledy Bib Fortuna with Burgundy Cape, all the ones that are out there are home made by somebody that knows the fabric but he doesn't know the main details..I have compared like 20 or more in the last 2 months and they are all fake!!... pls understand this point!!



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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:56 pm

Before writing all this, I think you should take a deep dive on everthing that has been written about LL....

Mainly start doing some research on who did and contribute to do the TIG LL Guide.... you will be surprised.
I assure you that you are not finding anything knew!!


@CorporateSlave wrote:
Ok, no need to get so defensive, in no way am I accusing you of trying to "pull something" on me or the collecting community at large.  I appreciate all the help you have been in lending your expertise to myself and everyone else, but your point about this being a thread about fake capes is exactly my point - until now, there has been very little questioning of anything at all, and this is a pretty big deal for a lot of people to just accept without a little cross-examination if you ask.  

When I mentioned not being able to trust a MOC, I wasn't talking about your example, I was referring to pictures I Googled of MOC versions of burgundy cape Bib Fortunas - particularly since more than one of them color matches declared fakes quite dead on.  Could these random MOC pictures be of a fake themselves?  I really have no way of knowing that, I don't even know who they belong to.  They're just pictures on the internet.

As far as proof, that is an overused word if you ask me, with things like this it is all about levels of evidence and expert testimony anyone is willing to accept.  After all, the only absolute 'proof' any of us really has is if we happen to be the original owner of a given figure, from the moment we bought it 30-odd years ago, then kept it locked away from prying hands until today.  Unless someone has a time machine handy, nobody is likely to definitively prove a given cape is real or fake at this point, without some level of trust in the source.

I'm not here to throw names of sellers under the bus in a public forum, but lets face it, if a honest seller gets a figure from someone he considers a rock, rock, solid source, with decades of Lili Ledy experience, who vouches for a figure's authenticity, then acquires another that matches it, in his opinion, who the heck am I to insist he is either wrong on lying?  I may have a couple of photos that another expert with decades of experience in the hobby has given me along with his expert opinion, but from even an amateur forensic analysis standpoint, I could tear those photo comparisons apart.  I'm not just talking about lighting in this case, but for starters the white balance of the camera and photo image.  The top close up does appear way too orangish-red compared to the MOC photo - but then again the "skin" color is clearly orangish tinted compared to the MOC photo, so I don't think they would look that different next to each other in person.  Still different?  My guess would be yes, but again I don't have either in hand so I can't say 100% for myself. I am just as confident that my wife could, with photoshop, make the photo I sent you color match exactly the photo you sent me for comparison.  

Let me be clear, I'm not saying you did any of this, and I don't think you did, or ever would.  But my point is, I could have, as could anyone else.  And not even on purpose - a cheap digital camera is going to give you a very different picture of the same thing as a $5000 SLR with someone at the shutter who really knows what they are doing.  For example: if I hold the cape I have up to the picture I took on screen, they aren't the same color.  Fairly close, but not the same.  In fact, if I hold the Lili Ledy Bib Fortuna Staff I have up to the screen, it is about five shades darker than the original in the photo.  Trickery?  No, just a washed out photo, nobody's fault.  But I would hate to see someone snapping their original Ledy staff in half and tossing it as 'repro junk' because it didn't match a photo exactly and nobody bothered to point out why it might not have.

So here I am, six posts deep on TIG and probably ruining my reputation with many distinguished members already.  But if that is what it takes to increase the level of understanding for all the members, old and new, that read this thread, then so be it.  I may not be an expert on the Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, Lili Ledy figures, or even action figures in general.  But I do have an sharp eye for detail and a talent for playing "Devil's Advocate."  I don't do it just to be difficult, but to help everyone see the various sides and factors they may not have considered.  

So far here on TIG, any potential fake I've come across in my collection, I've been able to get solid details as far as the 'tell' that it is fake, how to spot it, and some history on the fake version (granted with things like common blaster accessories it is easier because they are solid molded plastic, and many were never really intended as counterfeit in the first place).  I can accept that the experts need to not share this information publicly in cases like the burgundy cape Bib, for the same reasons as keeping exact details of the DT sabers under wraps.  But when the primary evidence that does get shared is a color mismatch between photos of the capes, the first thing I do is turn to look at my collection, which comprises several cheaper, common, Kenner cloth caped figures (Bib Fortuna, Trench Han Solo, Jedi Luke, Ugnaught, for example) - and no two examples are exact color matches.  A couple are essentially MOC (no I haven't been opening MOC figures - but I have had two break through in transit), and they look worlds different than the same variant that has been out of its shell for years, probably decades.  But even the 'used' loose figures sometimes look really new.

Of course there are details other than color I'm sure. So far you've sent me two photos of two genuine examples, one MOC one loose.  The color does look to be pretty much a match...although if I put the two right next to each other they are notably different.  The stitching also looks very different between the two, and although I guess that could be the angle of the photo, how do I know that isn't the case in comparing any two photos?

My point is this - I have been looking at all the pictures, facts, opinions, etc that have been presented here, that have been discussed between me and the guy who sold me my copy, and what I could find in online research, and at the end of it all I don't know what to think.  It pretty much just comes down to whose word and expertise I decide I want to trust at this point. (and remember the seller said he would refund my money with no argument if I decided I didn't want the figure for any reason, so I'm not just trying to make myself feel better about having bought a fake with no recourse)  

While a glut of fake capes is certainly a blight upon the hobby, it would be a disaster for many collectors if it turned out the fakes they scrapped were actually originals that were just slightly varied due to QC issues, or exposure degradation, or came from a box of factory rejects that eventually found their way into an overstock market, which while not exactly commercial release original, would still be rarities of collecting and/or historical value.  

So, try not to be too upset with me for writing all this - I'm just trying to make sure no stone goes unturned here, for everyone's benefit.
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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:14 am

@CorporateSlave wrote:
Ok, no need to get so defensive, in no way am I accusing you of trying to "pull something" on me or the collecting community at large.  I appreciate all the help you have been in lending your expertise to myself and everyone else, but your point about this being a thread about fake capes is exactly my point - until now, there has been very little questioning of anything at all, and this is a pretty big deal for a lot of people to just accept without a little cross-examination if you ask.  

When I mentioned not being able to trust a MOC, I wasn't talking about your example, I was referring to pictures I Googled of MOC versions of burgundy cape Bib Fortunas - particularly since more than one of them color matches declared fakes quite dead on.  Could these random MOC pictures be of a fake themselves?  I really have no way of knowing that, I don't even know who they belong to.  They're just pictures on the internet.

As far as proof, that is an overused word if you ask me, with things like this it is all about levels of evidence and expert testimony anyone is willing to accept.  After all, the only absolute 'proof' any of us really has is if we happen to be the original owner of a given figure, from the moment we bought it 30-odd years ago, then kept it locked away from prying hands until today.  Unless someone has a time machine handy, nobody is likely to definitively prove a given cape is real or fake at this point, without some level of trust in the source.

I'm not here to throw names of sellers under the bus in a public forum, but lets face it, if a honest seller gets a figure from someone he considers a rock, rock, solid source, with decades of Lili Ledy experience, who vouches for a figure's authenticity, then acquires another that matches it, in his opinion, who the heck am I to insist he is either wrong on lying?  I may have a couple of photos that another expert with decades of experience in the hobby has given me along with his expert opinion, but from even an amateur forensic analysis standpoint, I could tear those photo comparisons apart.  I'm not just talking about lighting in this case, but for starters the white balance of the camera and photo image.  The top close up does appear way too orangish-red compared to the MOC photo - but then again the "skin" color is clearly orangish tinted compared to the MOC photo, so I don't think they would look that different next to each other in person.  Still different?  My guess would be yes, but again I don't have either in hand so I can't say 100% for myself. I am just as confident that my wife could, with photoshop, make the photo I sent you color match exactly the photo you sent me for comparison.  

Let me be clear, I'm not saying you did any of this, and I don't think you did, or ever would.  But my point is, I could have, as could anyone else.  And not even on purpose - a cheap digital camera is going to give you a very different picture of the same thing as a $5000 SLR with someone at the shutter who really knows what they are doing.  For example: if I hold the cape I have up to the picture I took on screen, they aren't the same color.  Fairly close, but not the same.  In fact, if I hold the Lili Ledy Bib Fortuna Staff I have up to the screen, it is about five shades darker than the original in the photo.  Trickery?  No, just a washed out photo, nobody's fault.  But I would hate to see someone snapping their original Ledy staff in half and tossing it as 'repro junk' because it didn't match a photo exactly and nobody bothered to point out why it might not have.

So here I am, six posts deep on TIG and probably ruining my reputation with many distinguished members already.  But if that is what it takes to increase the level of understanding for all the members, old and new, that read this thread, then so be it.  I may not be an expert on the Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, Lili Ledy figures, or even action figures in general.  But I do have an sharp eye for detail and a talent for playing "Devil's Advocate."  I don't do it just to be difficult, but to help everyone see the various sides and factors they may not have considered.  

So far here on TIG, any potential fake I've come across in my collection, I've been able to get solid details as far as the 'tell' that it is fake, how to spot it, and some history on the fake version (granted with things like common blaster accessories it is easier because they are solid molded plastic, and many were never really intended as counterfeit in the first place).  I can accept that the experts need to not share this information publicly in cases like the burgundy cape Bib, for the same reasons as keeping exact details of the DT sabers under wraps.  But when the primary evidence that does get shared is a color mismatch between photos of the capes, the first thing I do is turn to look at my collection, which comprises several cheaper, common, Kenner cloth caped figures (Bib Fortuna, Trench Han Solo, Jedi Luke, Ugnaught, for example) - and no two examples are exact color matches.  A couple are essentially MOC (no I haven't been opening MOC figures - but I have had two break through in transit), and they look worlds different than the same variant that has been out of its shell for years, probably decades.  But even the 'used' loose figures sometimes look really new.

Of course there are details other than color I'm sure. So far you've sent me two photos of two genuine examples, one MOC one loose.  The color does look to be pretty much a match...although if I put the two right next to each other they are notably different.  The stitching also looks very different between the two, and although I guess that could be the angle of the photo, how do I know that isn't the case in comparing any two photos?

My point is this - I have been looking at all the pictures, facts, opinions, etc that have been presented here, that have been discussed between me and the guy who sold me my copy, and what I could find in online research, and at the end of it all I don't know what to think.  It pretty much just comes down to whose word and expertise I decide I want to trust at this point. (and remember the seller said he would refund my money with no argument if I decided I didn't want the figure for any reason, so I'm not just trying to make myself feel better about having bought a fake with no recourse)  

While a glut of fake capes is certainly a blight upon the hobby, it would be a disaster for many collectors if it turned out the fakes they scrapped were actually originals that were just slightly varied due to QC issues, or exposure degradation, or came from a box of factory rejects that eventually found their way into an overstock market, which while not exactly commercial release original, would still be rarities of collecting and/or historical value.  

So, try not to be too upset with me for writing all this - I'm just trying to make sure no stone goes unturned here, for everyone's benefit.


Not being defensive, just clearing things up.
This is not only my word or my opinion, there's also pictures, examples, a carded figure and lots of experience involved here.

No fake cape matches a carded example yet, you said that you still have a hard time picking out which details to look for in determining the difference between these capes, and that you are one of the relatively novice members but still you CAN determinate that a fake cape matches 'dead on' an original carded one based on a picture taken from the Internet...

Telling stories or childhood memories are not proof of anything that's why I use pictures, samples found before 2004, samples found after 2004, a carded example, burgundy Squids, regular Bibs, and more before sharing this info with the TIG members, that's how serious my info is, it's not only about my sharp eye, a rock solid source or just because I say so.

Then you talked about cameras....

Now you are trying to raise the level of understanding for all the members, how? Just because you question the samples, pictures and tips shared here? not good enough.

You talked about a a rock solid source but you still show no capes, what cape do you defend as an original? Don't talk so much, show us.

Now you are questioning the original samples I sent to you, what a waste of time.

You can trust who ever you want, I personally don't trust anyone, that's why I do my research, this warning is not about you, or your cape, or the seller of that cape, no names here as I don't care for that, this warning is for the TIG members, just as some other warnings I have shared with them, about fake RR Fetts, fake Jawas, Fake 3PO nets and now fake burgundy Bibs

Just as Merlin said at some point we all thought this capes where original, now we know they are not. The real disaster here is that even 'rock solid sources' with decades of Lili Ledy experience decided to look away on these fake capes, not me.


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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:55 am

*PHEW!*

I very nearly put a bid on the first one of those recent auctions! Ozio, you've just saved me $350USD.

I owe you a Coke, sir!  drinking2 


Meanwhile, the search continues for a legit BB...  thinking 
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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:31 am

Strong thread and still a civil discussion despite the different views. Kudos to all for that.

I regard Ozio an institute when it comes to Lili Ledy knowledge.
And he is now sticking out his head claiming there are many fake capes out there.
Though there is no personal benefit for him doing so at all. The contrary I would say.

That should be a BIG warning sign....

Marco




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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:50 pm

Edit: Removed by author. -CSlave


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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:40 pm

Buddy. .. making long story short as Im not as patient as Ozio is.. 

You have the right to question every thing .. you are entitled to that...and Im happy for you...

Now... My Moc is the only available thing to compare all those fake BFBC that are out there vs the real thing.....
I dont see anybody else LL BFBC around to compare it... maybe there are some reasons I do not understand why they keep them in the vault ... meanwhile mine is the only available to stop this mega scam... and Yes you should thank me for not been like everybody else and sharing quality pics for everybody else. 

Sorry for NOT asking  how many LL MOC's you have, maybe you have enough to recognize a real one from a recarded...  because for me , the only way to learn is having them in your hand as there are tons of fakes out there even graded by AFA.

If you want to think your LLBFBC is real.. nobody will stop you from believing that... but I can assure you is totally home made (other than the fabric)

As far as I know , YOU CAN BE ONE OF  THE SCAMMERS THAT WANTS INFORMATION SO YOU CAN DO  A BETTER JOB.. so I dont think Ozio or I will tell you how to recognize the real thing.

Lets do this  very very easy.... you name Luis Glavez and Tom Derby... 
Ask them if its real.... and then copy/paste here the answer, I truly want to see that.... and of course I will double verify with them if you got any answers...
Has your seller send you pics of a real MOC one?
Has your seller have another example for comparison?

I will not waste my time neither my info with somebody that doesnt respect all the time and effort we have put in reaserching everything about this action figure. 

To everbody else. ... plsssss make sure not to buy this kind of Burgundy Capes.... THEY ARE 100% FAKE!!!
They look like they went out  from the factory yesterday ( and is because literally,  they were made recently!!)
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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:54 pm

Quick memory test and quick question...

For all of those who have a LL Bib Fortuna with a regular / normal cape (original 100% lili ledy)

Who owns a perfect and minty cape???, Like the one in the above pic with NO wear what so ever?....
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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:40 pm

Edit: Removed by author. -CSlave


Last edited by CorporateSlave on Thu May 01, 2014 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:56 pm

Years ago Ben and I warned you! I fell for a fake which was really really close to the original! The material was so close I would have called it the same. Just the color from the lining and threads was a bit different. At that time nobody seemed to care! These are out there since YEARS! And by now the even must have corrected the glitch with the cuts under the arms.....well...bad times Sad

Hope mine is real! My upgrade was bought here on TIG!  Shocked 
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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:01 pm

@OZIO wrote:


I have a small test that can help us out a bit, try to find the fake ones, give it a try.

There are 3 fake Burgundy capes here, can you spot them?




Hahaha...well..the picture was too small but I already thought it was more then three.....two of them are pretty good colorwise....

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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:03 pm

Let me get this clear....because this is hilarious
You question 2 opinions(that I dont have a problem with that) ....that both have the real thing, and we dont have nothing to win or lose in here ...

But you claim you will send it to AFA , even though we know they have a history of mistakes and mistakes and  they will charge you for that.... hehehehe... sorry but that is so funny!!!

Let me get this straight because I seem that I dont understand...
Is like I have the  origianl schematics of a jeep Drive train
And suddenly another person comes to me and say the he has it also, but Im looking at it and I  see some errors (but is quite similar) ... I will have no problem saying it looks alike but is not the real thing.... why???..because I have it with me...LOL!!
 again as far as I know you can be the one doing them...

But you will send it to AFA  (that already proven and that  we all know they have done a ton of mistakes and still countinue doing them??)...

*sitting down and watching more people get scamed*

Sorry guys this will be my last post about this....
This is just a waste of time. ...
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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:08 pm

If people havn't got it yet since the "Toy Toni" debacle: Afa is NO authority....never was...and never will be!

They just do as it is written in the forums! Especially on loose figures!....okay maybe only on loose figures...but they simply do not have experts on those!

AFA has packed so many fakes and repro weapons as original how can they even be called for a job like this?? I mean the fake that I had in hands years ago was simply perfect besides some glitches!!! I am sure Afa would have graded it!
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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:10 pm

@wbobafett wrote:
Years ago Ben and I warned you! I fell for a fake which was really really close to the original! The material was so close I would have called it the same. Just the color from the lining and threads was a bit different. At that time nobody seemed to care! These are out there since YEARS! And by now the even must have corrected the glitch with the cuts under the arms.....well...bad times Sad

Hope mine is real! My upgrade was bought here on TIG!   Shocked 

Fyi... with the MOC in our hands we found some other patterns that this fakes dont have... of course not saying them...

Yes.... tons and tons of fakes out there!
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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:14 pm

@merlin wrote:
@wbobafett wrote:
Years ago Ben and I warned you! I fell for a fake which was really really close to the original! The material was so close I would have called it the same. Just the color from the lining and threads was a bit different. At that time nobody seemed to care! These are out there since YEARS! And by now the even must have corrected the glitch with the cuts under the arms.....well...bad times Sad

Hope mine is real! My upgrade was bought here on TIG!   Shocked 

Fyi... with the MOC in our hands we found some other patterns that this fakes dont have... of course not saying them...

Yes.... tons and tons of fakes out there!

Please PM me about those...or Ozio...I have send him the pics of my fake!

As said: Material was spot on!!! Thread color was a bit off...stitching was also exactly the same!

I can see on Ozio's examples that stitching is a theme....most are reallly really off!!! But mine was perfect!

If they have had the beater cape I had ...oh boy....it would have been perfect!!

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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:28 pm

@wbobafett wrote:
@merlin wrote:
boba fett wrote:
Years ago Ben and I warned you! I fell for a fake which was really really close to the original! The material was so close I would have called it the same. Just the color from the lining and threads was a bit different. At that time nobody seemed to care! These are out there since YEARS! And by now the even must have corrected the glitch with the cuts under the arms.....well...bad times Sad

Hope mine is real! My upgrade was bought here on TIG!   Shocked 

Fyi... with the MOC in our hands we found some other patterns that this fakes dont have... of course not saying them...

Yes.... tons and tons of fakes out there!

Please PM me about those...or Ozio...I have send him the pics of my fake!

As said: Material was spot on!!! Thread color was a bit off...stitching was also exactly the same!

I can see on Ozio's examples that stitching is a theme....most are reallly really off!!! But mine was perfect!

If they have had the beater cape I had ...oh boy....it would have been perfect!!

PM sent.
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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:27 pm

Hey Merlin, no time wasted, thanks for getting the time to write here.

Wolff! good to see you around, well remember those red stitches capes? those where fixed, no more V cuts under the arms and no more red stitches, picture that. Adolfo and I counted 20 the last 2 months. I'll send some info to your mail.

Hey Corporateslave can you prove your cape original? because I can prove it as a fake, just don't use those big names in vain I respect Luis Galvez a LOT so let's see if he backs up your cape.

Your fake cape:


This cape of yours is like this other fake (sorry about my not 5K camera):


That turns out to have red stitches on it plus some other wrong characteristics:


Now, don't blame it on Lili Ledy's poor quality control, or stories about overstock finds, share some pictures please, you don't trust our side of things, you don't trust our pictures not even the fact that we are using a carded example and MANY samples of fake capes for this research, so let's see it, don't talk about lightning and 5K cameras or experts, show us those red stitches on a carded example, show us those overstock pictures with hundreds of capes, on a second thought.... You are starting to sound to worried about this fake capes been announced to the community... suspicious. I have seen that before, on the other hand, me, Adolfo, well we worked and helped on the LL research here on TIG that turns out to be the BEST LL guide available, we warned TIG members about fake RR Bobas, fake Jawas, fake 3POs nets...  Who shall we trust? unsure 

We know this is a big issue at some point even we thought this capes where original but now we KNOW they are fake should we keep our mouths shut?.... No.

Here's something else:

This is a custom cape originated from the same source of those fake capes.


Last edited by OZIO on Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:08 pm

Edit: Removed by author. -CSlave


Last edited by CorporateSlave on Thu May 01, 2014 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Fake Burgundy Cape Bib Fortuna, They are everywhere!   Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:46 am

Well, you asked for help, it was kindly given to you but then you suddenly turned all doubtful and distrustful. Sure, I'm using cropped images, and just a portion of all the info I have, why? Well you could be the one making these fakes couldn't you? I can't fully trust you but still I was open and ready to help. At first you stated clearly that you can't tell a fake from an original and that you are new on variations, then you turn this into a big argument claiming you have this great capacity to spot details and that the examples given by me are just lightning differences, poor quality camera, etc.

I'm proudly part of the developer team here on TIG, I'm always open to help, ask around. This tone on the past messages are just a response at your attitude, no picture, information or advice is good enough for you. I totally support questioning things, this thread is basically about that, we are questioning the originality of a cape, again not just because we say so, we are sharing what we can without giving it all away, we have learned after prior episodes on this matter that the guys behind this fake capes are reading this.

So here I am trying to warn TIG members, with just a portion of the info I have and it is a hard task. I have many samples, I could just sold them, no one can tell they are fake we are talking about thousands of dollars I could make, still I prefer to do what I have been doing here on TIG for some years now, share the info I have with the nice help of others like Merlin and try to prevent fellow collectors from getting burned with these capes just as I and many others did.

If you don't want to sound insulting then try to be a bit thankful when two guys you don't know are trying to help you, again, we are not selling you anything, we gain nothing, we are just tired of these scumbags fooling collectors for YEARS.

Did you saw the picture of the cape with red stitches? Did you saw how the fabric on that cape looks very similar to the fabric on your cape and the fabric on the original one but with red stitches? That is a fake cape. Lots of these capes where sold through ebay and many refunds where made after Wolff found some discrepancies between an original cape and the one with red stitches. Then suddenly the capes with red stitches disappeared and then more accurate ones showed up, for almost 5 years now flooding the market with fake capes just like the one you have.

Did you saw the beige cape? That's a custom job from the same source of those fake burgundy capes.
If you honestly want my help just keep in mind all this information I'm sharing here.


Last edited by OZIO on Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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