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General Kahn
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:24 pm

Haha, if it's any concelation Jay, only the Luke Bespin 30 A is mine, all the rest are from my friend (who bought yours) collection. I sort them for him, and scan them all for my own archive, so if anything I feel your pain, I currently have three full binders of fantastic cardbacks sat on my desk and none of them are mine Sad 

I do really enjoy sorting through them all though, modern toy cards are so generic and boring Mad 
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:41 pm

@General Kahn wrote:
@Dutchskywalker wrote:
In the Netherlands and Belgium you also had to cut out the nameplates for the premiums, so an cut out name can come from other european sources then the UK.
The thing with production in the Netherlands & Belgium, Clipper only actually produced it's own card stock for the first SW 12 backs and the ESB 45 Backs, everything else was released on imported cardstock from Kenner, Kenner Canada, Palitoy and German General Mills, all of which are identifiable by the Clipper stickers applied to the cards, or at least by the tearing or residue left from attempts to remove these stickers. The name plate was used for the offers but the imported cards are still identifiable as being from the Netherlands or Belgium in the vast majority of cases because of the Clipper stickers or evidence that these stickers where once there.
The thing about the imported Kenner cards in the U.K. is that only the offer cards can be identidied as being from the U.K. by Palitoy stickers, all the others are just standard Kenner cards totally indistinguishable from there U.S. counterparts, so again it is likely that the vast majority of Kenner cards with the nameplate removed did originate from the U.K.
The interesting thing to me is the vast amount of imported Kenner cards which appear to have come from the U.K. because unlike Clipper who only produced two of it's own unique cards, Palitoy was producing it's own unique cards all the way from the SW 12 Back A's right the way through until the ROTJ 65 Back D's and even the Tri-Logo hybrids cards but still must have needed to import card stock from Kenner to meet production demand.

Here's an interesting example of a Klaatu on a Palitoy ROTJ 65 Back with the Clipper wrap around sticker. What makes this particular card interesting is that this came from my friends childhood collection and was bought in the U.K. making it possible that Palitoy or some distributers where importing overstock where ever to meet demand, in this case the Netherlands.

But the figures were also sold on cards without any stickers in the Netherlands ....
I still have every cardback of every figure I had as an kid, will take an look at them in an couple of weeks if there is anything interesting among them. I even still have some cut out nameplates Smile
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General Kahn
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:52 am

@Dutchskywalker wrote:
But the figures were also sold on cards without any stickers in the Netherlands ....
I still have every cardback of every figure I had as an kid, will take an look at them in an couple of weeks if there is anything interesting among them. I even still have some cut out nameplates
Very interesting, I assumed they all had the stickers, stands to reaon that they wouldn't I guess. Get your cards dug out chief and get some pictures up on here Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:23 am

@General Kahn wrote:


Return Of The Jedi Tri-Logo Hybrid 70 Back


The sixteenth and essentially the last of the Palitoy card, this card features the the same front as the 65 D in the fact it doesn't have the black bar under the ROTJ logo, but the 'ages 4 and up' text has gone back to the multi lingual version like the 65 A, B and C cards. In total, only 6 figures where released on the hybrid card, Both Bespin Security Guards (white and black), Greedo, Hammerhead, Snagglettoth and the Cloud Car Pilot.

The cards that followed from this point where the Tri-Logo's
Hi General,

This is really a good work overviewing the Palitoy cardbacks, really... but i just desagree with the last sentence ; The cards that followed from this point where the Tri-Logo's

These cards were introduced after the first release of Trilogo cards, exactly with the second weave of Trilogo cards; thinner card, unpunched(dot-cut) hang hole and etched bubble only. They just re-used an available design to introduce these low selling figures and lowered the cost of designing a totally new cardback. It's almost certain they didn't got the original art to do that.
Unfortunately, these cards are always mistaken as hybrid or "transition" cards.... What's totally wrong.

By the way, Palitoy imported their action-fihures already carded from the Far-East. It's only from the ESB 45 "B" that Palitoy blistered their action-figures on their own printed cardback in its factory of Coalville. Palitoy also blisterd the 45 back for Clipper and Parker Germany. All these 45 back "B" cards were made in UK.

Again, a really good work.

JC
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:37 am

"By the way, Palitoy imported their action-fihures already carded from the Far-East" unsure 
So all early Palitoy figures ie. Palitoy VC Jawa same from Asia?
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:39 am

@panastur wrote:
These cards were introduced after the first release of Trilogo cards, exactly with the second weave of Trilogo cards; thinner card, unpunched(dot-cut) hang hole and etched bubble only. They just re-used an available design to introduce these low selling figures and lowered the cost of designing a totally new cardback. It's almost certain they didn't got the original art to do that.
Unfortunately, these cards are always mistaken as hybrid or "transition" cards.... What's totally wrong.
Cheers for pointing that out, I didn't realize that they came later, now you've said it, it makes alot more sense Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:38 pm

@aussiejames wrote:
"By the way, Palitoy imported their action-fihures already carded from the Far-East " unsure 
So all early Palitoy figures ie. Palitoy VC Jawa same from Asia?
Yep, same factory as the Kenner one. All made by Kader industries in Hong Kong... Also, and as weird as it may sound, it's "Palitoy Far-East Div.", a division of G.M. Products Hong Kong Ltd. that was in charge of the control of production and manufacturer research.

As example, the Palitoy ESB 41 back cards bears a "K" printed next to the "Made in Hong Kong" mention that stands for "Kader", like the Kenner do.

Kader made also the Meccano 12 back...  That's the reason you can find today the Vinyl cape Jawa on these Three company cardback; Kenner, Meccano and Palitoy...

JC Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:14 pm

Very interesting indeed, thanks for that. Was it as these factories that they altered the COO stamps then for the European market?
When you said that the 45 b where packaged in the U.K. where the figures still produced in the far east? Or where they being produced in the U.K. as well?
I can't speak for other figures, but for Bespin Luke it was the 45 c where all the interesting variations first appeared i.e. dark boots versions and the main no COO versions, Bespin Luke was never released on the 45 b that I'm aware of, but the time frame can't have been too far off. The 45 C was definately one of Palitoy's most abundant card as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:34 pm

@General Kahn wrote:
Was it as these factories that they altered the COO stamps then for the European market?
No, you don't alter a COO for a specific destination. COO stands for Country Of Origine, or manufacturing. Never for destination.
The alteration in the Far-East region is mainly due to a political decision when in 1983, United Kingdom reclassified Hong Kong from a British crown colony to a dependent territory, slowly passing under China control.

@General Kahn wrote:
When you said that the 45 b where packaged in the U.K. where the figures still produced in the far east? Or where they being produced in the U.K. as well?
They still produced in the Far-East but in less quantity. U.K. never produced action-figures. The only place in Europe where action-figures were produced was Spain.
France and U.K. only produced some spaceships and playsets, never action-figures.


@General Kahn wrote:
I can't speak for other figures, but for Bespin Luke it was the 45 c where all the interesting variations first appeared i.e. dark boots versions and the main no COO versions, Bespin Luke was never released on the 45 b that I'm aware of, but the time frame can't have been too far off. The 45 C was definately one of Palitoy's most abundant card as well.
You must be mistaken but the Luke Bespin was released on Palitoy ESB 45 "B" card. Here is the cardback :Palitoy 45 back B Luke Bespin

Personally, i am not a fan of COO variations nor a loose collector. I saw too much absurdities said on the matter. Nothing is white or black. People must accept that different alterations may come from a same factory. An action-figure is not the same from the first batch of production against the last one produced from an eroded mold.  Paint scheme may also be altered during a production from a same line of manufacturing.
There's too much stakeholders in a production that the result may vary in a dozen forms... (plastics, paints, molds, mixed assembly, etc, etc...)

And last, Far-East factories never exported unpainted production to be painted in Spain.... NEVER!!!! This is just ridiculous.

JC Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:32 pm

@panastur wrote:
You must be mistaken but the Luke Bespin was released on Palitoy ESB 45 "B" card.
I apologise, yes you are right, I have the same picture in my file but over looked it.

@panastur wrote:
They still produced in the Far-East but in less quantity. U.K. never produced action-figures. The only place in Europe where action-figures were produced was Spain.
France and U.K. only produced some spaceships and playsets, never action-figures.
I was never quite sure wether or not figures where actually produced in the U.K. I knew some vehicles where, which makes sense as importing them would'nt have been cost effective, also a friend of mines Dad worke for a molding company called 'Orbit Plastics' who where contracted by Palitoy to injection mold certain vehicles, also a handful have U.K. stamps:


I'll say it again, thanks JC for this incredible insight Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:44 pm

@General Kahn wrote:
@panastur wrote:
You must be mistaken but the Luke Bespin was released on Palitoy ESB 45 "B" card.
I apologise, yes you are right, I have the same picture in my file but over looked it.

@panastur wrote:
They still produced in the Far-East but in less quantity. U.K. never produced action-figures. The only place in Europe where action-figures were produced was Spain.
France and U.K. only produced some spaceships and playsets, never action-figures.
I was never quite sure wether or not figures where actually produced in the U.K. I knew some vehicles where, which makes sense as importing them would'nt have been cost effective, also a friend of mines Dad worke for a molding company called 'Orbit Plastics' who where contracted by Palitoy to injection mold certain vehicles, also a handful have U.K. stamps:


I'll say it again, thanks JC for this incredible insight Very Happy
Looks like a Rancor stamp.... Cool

It was a common practice to sub-contratc the plastic injection to an external company. Understand that it was impossible to Palitoy(and also all other european companies) to make all the toys of all lines(including Star Wars) in their own factory. They'll need undreds or thousants of injection stations to make all the pieces...
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:53 pm

Yes it is Rancor, my friends Dad used to mold Falcon's and AT-AT's from his memory (which may be incorrect) I think from a previous thread we found a B-Wing with a U.K. stamp also. Like you say though, production on that scale in one factory would be impossible. Have you seen this video from Youtube, I know it's difficult to really say where the footage came from, but if it is entirely from the U.K. the brief pic you see of the Zuckuss being carded is a 45 C?


Check out the way the woman just cracks them AT-AT legs down, bet she wears the trousers in her house!
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:02 pm

@General Kahn wrote:
Yes it is Rancor, my friends Dad used to mold Falcon's and AT-AT's from his memory (which may be incorrect) I think from a previous thread we found a B-Wing with a U.K. stamp also. Like you say though, production on that scale in one factory would be impossible. Have you seen this video from Youtube, I know it's difficult to really say where the footage came from, but if it is entirely from the U.K. the brief pic you see of the Zuckuss being carded is a 45 C?


Check out the way the woman just cracks them AT-AT legs down, bet she wears the trousers in her house!

This footage is from the assembly line at Palitoy where you can also see the packaging section.
These Zuckuss are clearly JEDI 45 back C... No doubt Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:39 am

Great info, JC! Very Happy

One aspect needs a follow up, I think.

@Panastur wrote:

And last, Far-East factories never exported unpainted production to be painted in Spain.... NEVER!!!! This is just ridiculous.
From: http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t4427-the-poch-pbp-guide-discussion-thread#72643

@Dr Dengar wrote:
Just keep in mind it is still a working theory based upon what I read in discussions mixed with some of my own ideas. Like with every theory various aspects of it it still need to be verified by sound evidence. Please challenge this theory, so it can be improved.

So let's discuss this further in the POCH/PBP thread.
In the end we all are interested in a valid theory.
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:43 am

There's some really great discussion and information developing in this thread.

I liked your post about identifying the various Palitoy cards Alex. I'll be able to get mine properly catalogued now.

Thank you or sharing your knowledge JC, I've leant quite a bit reading your posts.

Keep up the good work guys. Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:42 pm

Got this little gem yesterday. a good friend of mine bought it for me as I was skint. A big thanks to him and  to Stefan for sending me the link Very Happy 
 
Luke Bespin, Palitoy 30 Back B Very Happy 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:44 pm

I don't have anything too crazy, but here are two of my favorite Ledy card backs:
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:15 am

Nice cardbacks fellas Smile Love the group shot on the back of that Palitoy card and those are some awesome looking Ledy cards. I really like that alternate photo for the Artoo. Keep em coming!
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:42 pm

This start of a run was part of a great pickup I had recently but obviously pales to that of others (MrPalitoy!), but here are some individual scans of the fronts of my just started Tri-Logo cardback run.... nowhere near a complete run yet but it is a start.......

The flickr details state what they all are (70B, C, D, not sure, etc).......













I think its 40 + 3 dupes (different stickers - Yak & Luke Poncho and different bubble for Leia Bespin).............

cheers!
Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:28 pm

Jason, thanks for adding them.:clap:  That is a fantastic start to a collection.:Drool: 
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:16 am

That's an awesome set Jay, and a great start to card back collecting and a great start to a Tri - Logo run.....you do realise though that to complete a Tri - Logo run at some point your gonna need a Jawa and a Madine which probably makes it one of the hardestrruns to complete Sad 

Great set though cheers 
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:28 am

@General Kahn wrote:
That's an awesome set Jay, and a great start to card back collecting and a great start to a Tri - Logo run.....you do realise though that to complete a Tri - Logo run at some point your gonna need a Jawa and a Madine which probably makes it one of the hardestrruns to complete Sad 

Great set though cheers 
 
 
way to go man - just go ahead and crush Jay's dreams before he even gets really going lol! 
 


your a mean one Mr Grinch :cool laugh: 
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:52 am

Here are my childhood cardbacks, all bought in the UK, in the Midlands, mostly from Goldie Toys. Please let me know if you come across any cardbacks with Goldie Toy stickers. I'd love to put a full set together!

It wasn't all Palitoy in the UK.

" />

So the Star Wars ones were a mix of Kenner & Palitoy cards.



Empire cards were mainly Palitoy. I think Yoda was a hard figure to get at that point in the UK, hence Kenner cardback for this little dude.  

" />

My Return cards are a mix of Kenner & Pailtoy.
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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:34 am

:clap: Nice cards Paul, Obviously as a kid I was more intersted in getting the figure out to play with as I saved nothing!! Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Card back collectors thread   Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:53 am

Picked this up at a toyfair today:
" />

Been sorting my trilogos: http://trilogo.info/carded-figure-guide/advanced-guide/
Hybrid Greedo & MOC Gam Guard & Rancor keeper missed out on the photo shoot!

excuse the non cardbacks (Ackbar is opened) :

UK type 1 : " />

UK type 2 : " />

UK type 3 : " />

UK last 15,  A-wing pilot has clipper catalogue & the AT AT driver is Meccano type 2
" />

"Parker" " />

so that's about 42 characters- lots to go geek 
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