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 THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2

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pattejan
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:07 pm

doh The pale face Luke on the left has a 'wrong' right arm.

You can see a clearly different pattern on the upper arm/shoulder.

This arm belongs to mould family II while the figure is family I!

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t6958-the-mould-family-guide-discussion-thread#esb_luke_skywalker_hoth
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:48 am

I received my second luke "pbp" dark brown boots last week. When i compared to the other one, painting on face looks difference, and also the colors of the hand, one is pink, and the other one pale. the pink one was found in france, and I think the other one was sold on ebay from UK.
is this just discoloration, or is there a small variation here?




not really obvious in the picture, but the pink on the hand remind the pink of another luke

edit: appears to be very common acording to well informed source. still glad of this small variation I didn't know before
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:13 pm

Nice guesses and ideas Clint, Andy and Chris...but Marco and Patrick got it after a little hint. The pale face Luke on the left
indeed has a soft less detailed kenner arm!

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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:51 am

Hello, here are 3 figs I got from spain from a non collector guy. a black neck lando, a yoda and bespin luke caramel boots.

lando is poch for sure, but what is interresting are the difference with the other one I got, coo and head color.

yoda is also different from the other one I got, different scar and colors.

bespin luke, don't know if it's a poch, it is different from the 3 poch variant of alex, but also different from the 25 variant Alex has identify in his limelight (by the way great job alex for this limelight, very usefull); would be close to 23ird variation, but still different (color of hand, boots, head)




on the left is the lando black neck I already owned. the color of the head is very different. I was wondering if it was discoloration, but the scult of the head are different, the lighter one is smaller. also by the research I have done on the web, I have found the both colors on poch variant. to me it is not discoloration, but I would be interrested to have your opinion about that


both has melt marks at the same place. coo is slitly different, if you you the right leg, the place of the L compare to the 1.


on the left is the yada I already had with scars.

he has a uge melt mark on the top of the back


arms are pretty light compare to the head. but this one doesn't have bobbles on painting like the other one

the new one has the body more greyish, the left one is more brown. (not so obvious on picture)

he has another melt mark on the side. the eyes would be between dark brown and light black.
not sure 100% this is a poch as I am not expert


on the left is ginger luke.


the hands are pinkish discolored IMO

boots are redish/caramel

it doesn't have any melt marks or plastic exctursion or bad sonic welding.

the eyebrow are lighter than the eyes, maybe close to the eyebrow of leia hoth poch. the eyes are dark brown

light brown hair

so don't know how to identify this figure, if it is common figure, if someone has the same, or if it is poch or whatever?















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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:01 am

does any body has an opinion about head of lando? is this discoloration or varation? unsure
thanks
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:23 am

chiktabba wrote:
does any body has an opinion about head of lando? is this discoloration or varation? unsure
thanks

I would say discolouration, but I'm no Poch expert.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:37 am

Here is a pic of my Lando Black neck Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:24 am

some more great pick ups Nicholas, Your darker head Lando is interesting, as his hands are of a much lighter colour. Usually the hands and face paint mach up. it would be interesting to see if any more of these darker Lando's turn up.

Andy - Very nice Poch black neck lando mate, is that the one Javi had for sale recently? Must admit i've been kicking myself a bit recently for not picking that up, it was a good price.

Just wanted to show these two recent acquisitions:

Poch IG88 'Dark Red eyes' variant:



interestingly this figure has two right arms


Colour comparison: - Poch Iggy centre, Kenner coo counterpart left, right is a different mold family/sculpt Kenner, but has similar, dark paint aps.




Melt marks to ammo belt and front of torso.

Poch C3P0 Fixed Limbs:




Although not as obvious in the pic, as is in hand, the Poch 3P0 (left) has a darker, deeper gold colour compared to his Kenner counterpart. Is this due to a different shade of paint used by Poch, or is it that the laquer on Poch 3P0's is more prone to discolouration, causing the more gold look?


Melt mark to front shoulder.


cracked torso near neck (1.) and strange melt, rub or paint aplication error to paint on the back shoulder (2.).




poor sonic welding.

Massive thanks to Kenneth B for these two awesome figures, they are two of the most prized figures in my collection (Vader aside  Wink )

thanks for looking Smile


Last edited by chris.75 on Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:31 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:27 pm

chris.75 wrote:


Andy - Very nice Poch black neck lando mate, is that the one Javi had for sale recently? Must admit i've been kicking myself a bit recently for not picking that up, it was a good price.

Cheers Chris cheers  Yes indeed it was Javi's, I have the original cape/weapon as well Very Happy
I will take some better more detailed pics as I am very pleased with him cheers  That was just a quick head shot What a Face

Lovin the POCH IG88 Dark eyes and POCH C3PO fixed limbs mate, two supercool figures there Chris, Congrats :clap: cheers
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:03 am

thanks nico for sharing your black neck lando

@ chris, nice figs too. it is interresting to see your C3PO has different marks than mine (see picture posted earlier in september)



received this nice lot from spain: han poch (melt mark and bad white paint application on gloves scarf and pocket and belt. he has a strange right hand with a long thumb, like a crabe), rebel soldier poch, lobot poch? (melt mark in front, pale hands, lighter yellow on ciborg part of head), posh bespin gard and pbp cloud car pilot scar (different scar from the other I got: 1 one has a G from HK remaining, also the grey round on torso is smaller, and orange glass are lighter)
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:00 am

It fills me with joy seeing so much POCH goodness in this thread.
Thank you for posting your newest figures, Chris and Nicolas. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:41 am

Today, Its time to show you my ATAT driver Poch, with typical very white paint application on gloves and shoulders, and red emblems.
I thinK this one should be considered like the "pure Poch one" (but this is only my opinion). You can see "easily" another mixed up figures with different white color comparing the right and left glove and shoulder.
Very common of this type of figure is the paint droplets aplication, specially on gloves and shoulders , and a big melt mark "line shaped" on legs. These melt marks are very usefull to identify this variant, but always like a complement to the real characteristic of this variant (very white paint). You can see bad sonic welding.
Next days,more photos of my poch figures.
Hope you like it.
Here you have some photos.



Comparing a Poch and a Kenner one.Poch on the left, kenner on the right.





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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:47 am



Beautiful POCH figure, Javi!

Thank you for sharing, and keep them coming. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:06 am

Hi folks,

I wanted to share this Luke Bespin figure I aquired recently. Now it's important to say that this was found in the U.S. and I'm not saying it is Poch. I just find the figure interesting as it efinately has a few unique traits, many of which are Poch traits.

The figure it's self is quite a bizarre figure in general and is mixed up. The head is the wrong head for this family. Sadly the head is the easiest body part to swap. Interestingly though the head is oddly unique, and I don't suspect that it has been swapped.

It's also important to say that tis figure has been touched up with paint at some stage with paint but not very well. A small area (the sloppy bit) on the front of the hair has been touched up with yellow and at some point the hands have been painted with a more flesh colour. I did find evidence of both of these colours on the torso, which again goes to show there was a touch up, as when these where painted in the factory the torso would never have come in contact with either of these two colour.

It's also important to say that this touch up job does not appear to have been a recent thing, for example, to try and help sell the figure. The paint job looks like it's been there a while as most of the hand paint has actually since come off and stained the original hand colour, which is not something that happens quickly. Also there is damage to the boots, yet they have never been touched up, which suggests that this figure has suffered much wear since the figure was originally touched up.
This also adds creedance to the head been the one the figure came with, because it's clearly been on the figure a long time.

I should also state, that it is not completely impossible to uncover a foreign figure in a different country from the one it originated from, one of my other Poch Lukes also came from a U.S. collectors collection and was not sold as Poch, so I assume he didn't know what he had..... other wise it wouldn't have cost me £2.50 Smile

Anyway, I'll take yu through the figures interesting features and would like to hear your thoughts.

This is the figures COO, Family II the same as two of the other Poch figures. Note that there is also melt marks present on the belt and left leg.


The figures hands are the bad point becasue they have been repainted at some stage, most of which has long since come of as the paint wasn't great. This has however stained the original paint and left it yellow. This means of course that the original colour can't be established, which if it could would be more interesting becasue it may have been the typical Poch pale colour.
What I should note is the the paint application does look more poorly applied than the usual standard for the Kenner version of this figure. It does also looks like the original colour may have been pale which would have stained yellow. The Kenner versions of this figure have a fleshy pink tone which doesn't seem to fade and just wouldn't look like this in my opinion. So I beleive that the original colour probably was the pale white colour, but like I said, it's impossible to know for sure.
Right hand

Left hand - The touch up paint colour can be seen here

Now here is the interesting bit, this figure has the unpainted hip. It's very important here to add that this paint variation does NOT exist on any Kenner figures from this family. The Poch variant is the only figure to feature this variation with in this family.
Unpainted left hip

Now here is the other interesting bit, This figure has a different boot colour to the other Poch figure with the unpainted hip making this figure unique and not used from mixed up parts of the other. Below is this figure with the two Poch figures from this family.

Left to Right : Poch figure 1 with painted hip and tan boots - Mystery figure with unpainted hip and Sienna boots - Poch figure 2 with unpainted hip and caramel boots

Left to Right : Poch figure 1 with painted hip and tan boots - Mystery figure with unpainted hip and Sienna boots - Poch figure 2 with unpainted hip and caramel boots

Finally, the head. This head belongs to Family III (which also produced a Poch figure but the brown hair unpainted hip figure) It is my belief, from looking at the figure and from my my hypothosis that this head has been on this figure a long while and wasn't 'swapped' recently. The fact that the figure was touched up both on the head and hands and that evidence of both paint colours from this touch up where found on the torso implies that the both where touched up at the same time and the fact that most of the hand touch up has again worn off, along with the fact it's stained the original colour underneath, again implies this touch up was done along time ago. The fact that the figure has also clearly suffered much more play wear to painted areas which haven't been touched up again implies that this wear happened after the original touch up which again implies that the original touch up happened along time ago.
At this stage of course, I always question everything, so who's to say that some kid didn't just swap the original head for this one 30 years ago for what ever reason, again, I can't prove this, but what I can say is, if this is or was the case, he managed to find the oddest head around which is kind of unique in it's self and put it on the oddest body going as well! Smile
The eye print on this head has two interesting feature:

1 - The eye brows are bolder than the ones found on Kenner figures.
2 - The eye brows are incorrectly placed

I have looked at the eye brows closely and they are the original print and have not been re-touched.


Compared to two Kenner figures (Mystery figure at bottom)

So guys, what do you think, a new Poch variant or just an oddball figure? I would love to hear your opinions on this and would rather disprove this than call it something it's not, but you know me, I know my Bespin Luke's and this is a very odd figure to me and throughs up some many questions while also having many familiar Poch traits?
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:20 pm

Hey Alex,

Weird figure you have there my friend.

I have never found or saw one of those luke bespin in any childhood collection carded or loose here in Spain ,ever.

The ones i have seen have orange hair along with that coo family.

Sloopy paint, ,melt marks , unpainted parts,etc  and all those so called "Poch" traits are only factory errors IMHO , and can be found in Kenner figures as well.

The yellowish degraded paint allways means Kenner degradation to me , its something that i have learnt over the years, also i have never found that kind of degraded color in any confirmed Poch figure.

The figures shown are common figures , not only in Spain but Uk and US too.I have found those orange haired lukes in UK and US myself ,and they are virtually the same figures as the so called POch ones, that means to me that MAYBE  no one of those are Poch at all, who knows...

And finally the mask used for painting that figure´s face  never was used by PBP/Poch in any other Luke Bespin , at least in the examples i was able to check over the years.

Hope this help

Of course i can be wrong here, and that can be an unknown Poch variant to me...

Best wishes

JAvi


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:47 pm

Cheers Javi,

The head is the wrong head for the body, that is definate.

The hands are not degraded though in my opinion, they have been stained because the original owner repainted them, unfortunately, the original colour is now impossible to tell.

Just a really odd figure scratch

javiswspain wrote:
I have never found or saw one of those luke bespin in any childhood collection carded or loose here in Spain ,ever.

I've never seen anything like this guy anywhere before!

I'm going to add him to my 'oddity' section of my Luke focus.

Cheers for your input Javi, it's always much appreciated Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:27 pm

You´re welcome Alex Smile

A weird figure indeed.

Yellowish color on the faces or hands use to be Kenner degradation IMO. The PBP degradation on face and hands are more white/pale than yellow

The Acrilyc/water-based paints/colours (which are the common ones ) used for repainting figures rarely stained original paints and plastics .

In my experience of 17 years on restoring, i can say that only paintings solve-based are the ones which can tint other paints and materials.Those solve-based paints have enough power penetration to be able to stain paints and plastics i.e. the black permanent marker which tint the plastics to violet even if you remove the color with solves.I don't know if you know what i mean, its hard to me to explain it to be understood Sad

I really don't know if this is the case i am thinking about - If not ,just forget this reply LOL!!

Cheers and thanks for sharing your huge knowledge Smile
Best Wishes
Javi
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:55 am

Hi all, I’m new to these boards having only visited in the past.

Thanks for providing a great resource. Vintage SW collecting has come on a lot since I took a hiatus and is so now well documented. Whilst I’ve collected since day one (i.e 1978) and picked up variants along the way I’ve only recently become obsessed again to the point where I’m now struggling to get up to speed with the detail now afforded to the hobby and getting my head around COO’s and identifying country of origin etc.  

Hopefully I have a few items inc. POCH/PBP's (?) I can share that you’ll find interesting and perhaps you more learned folk could oblige and offer your opinions and insight.

First up are a couple of Bossks…



Shown in the first picture are 3 variants  with a ‘normal’ (probably Kenner) version on the card (a Toytoni card for that matter so who really knows?) – anyway its the only example of this figure I have to hand for comparison purposes.

LEFT: much lighter yellow plastic body (significantly so on the limbs); both shoulder rings painted black and right to the breastplate; black detail added to the breastplate and belt (the later is less evident.) Two COO’s: ‘Made in Hong Kong’ on one leg, other leg: ‘C1980 LFL’

History: I picked him up cheaply just this week from a toy dealer in the UK amongst a box of play worn figures. Thoughts…I wondered at first if the figure had faded but his reptilian skin is unaffected, the red collar remains vibrant (red fades easily, right?) and surely he wouldn’t fade back and front evenly? The chest paintwork is quite detailed, matches perfectly the same paint type used for the shoulder bands and appears genuine to me.

MIDDLE:  a slightly darker yellow body than normal which is noticeably much less glossy than and almost tacky to the touch! - again BOTH shoulder rings painted black with a slither of yellow showing to the breastplate. Same COO's.

History: picked from an entire collection of mint figures I bought in the 90’s – all presumably being late run figures as the guy bought huge amounts of remainder stock still kicking around in the late 80s had only recently taken them off the cards to save on space...  :I am stupid:

These may be documented elsewhere - any feedback appreciated.
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:59 am

welcome to TIG Tickyra

IMO the first figure looks as though the limbs have faded when compared to its torso. The black detailing appears to be a custom job.

the second figure appears to be a nice example of a Kenner figure, just a slightly deeper yellow to the torso and limbs (no fading, in fact if you compare the torso on the left figure, to the middle figure, they are very similar in colour).

The 'ToyToni' moc figure looks very interesting, could you show more detailed pics please?
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:09 am

The carded Bossk is a PBP figure. I'm not sure, but I don't think I've seen one under a double stemmed bubble before. scratch
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:40 am


the lips look quite plump too Smile

If it is a 'ToyToni' that may explain the incorrect bubble?
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:03 pm

I just wanted to share another Leia Bespin POCH figure I just picked up which came as a surprise! AND!! she came with the proper cape as well!
Two crappy far away blurry pictures on ebay UK which made me think she was something else entirely, so imagine my surprise when this is what I turned up!  cheers

POCH Leia Bespin - Red Hair / Brown Eyes - Family 1, 4 line COO



OK, first up, her face:



As you can see her red hair has been massively over sprayed. I haven't seen any Leia, POCH or otherwise, quite this over sprayed.
Her left eye is misaligned (spray op error - left eye too low).
Her lips are also over sprayed. This is the most lipstick I have seen as well.

Here is a quick comparison of three red haired POCHs:

#1 Red Hair Black Eyes - slight under sprayed hair line | #2 this new figure Red Hair/Brown Eyes - over sprayed hair line | #3 Red Hair/Brown Eyes - perfect sprayed hair

Now again without the cape and #4 is a Brown hair/Black eyes POCH figure - the brown haired figure is mislabeled in my image! BLACK EYES, not brown!


Marco spotted this as did Alex. This figures right hand appears a bit darker than her left hand.
Initial speculation was this figure might be a Pochenstein (mixed up Kenner and POCH parts). But I can tell you that in hand, that is not the case.
Here are all 4 POCHs hands up close:


What I can tell you that in hand and in this picture, all right hands are the same.
Looking closely, this figure's left hand had a very, very light paint application so in reality, her left hand is lighter than the others making the right hand seem off.
The left hand is under sprayed.
Looking at all of them today, it appears that in all the figures, the lefts hands all seem to have just a little less paint applied where the right is more uniform.
With this figure's under sprayed left hand it really just makes it looked mixed up but it is not. I would have liked this to be a Pochenstein, but it isn't.  Sad

I do like the charm of the poorly applied hair, eyes and lipstick. Reading through all the POCH stuff, POCH seems to have a reputation of poorly applied paint. Until this figure, all the Leia's I have seen from POCH have excellently applied paint overall and in most cases, even better than her Kenner counterparts. One exception is some of the red hairs do have a little under spray as seen in #1 near the front of the hair line which allows the red hair to really be seen. But as #s 3 & 4 show, the paint generally is very well applied. So this figure (#2) is a nice example of a sloppy POCH. tongue

Anyway, I just wanted to share this lucky find.

cheers!
Very Happy
J


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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:41 pm

Great read, Jay. Very Happy

All makes perfectly sense.
Nice to see the sloppy POCH paint job on your newest figure.

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2   Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:03 pm

Here some pics of a two Leia Bespins.

Left: Kenner with pale faded (discoloured) hands
Right: POCH with pale painted hands.







Note that the heads are the same with the typical redish hair.
Jay already showed us before that this head is not POCH exclusive.

The devil is in the detail: Many pale handed figures which you see advertised as POCH on ebay aren't.
These are Kenner figures with faded hands.

BTW: Also the feet differ in colour: flesh (Kenner)  vs pale (POCH)

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PostSubject: POCH STORMIE on POCH CARD IS NOT PBP HARD TORSO?   Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:31 pm

Hello Guys... i'm new on the TIG and new on this POCH/PBP figures...but Vintage collector since 1994, sell sometimes my hole collection and now i come back more and more since 2 years...,But now aboutPOCH/PBP... can this be an POCH Version of a stormtrooper? Not the PBP Hardtorso... an POCH? Or is the carded version we know  an Hardtorso?

I got picture with magnifying glass and even so I think you can not exactly see what I see as points of meldmarks etc:
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THE POCH/PBP GUIDE & DISCUSSION THREAD, PART 2

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