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 Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES

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rayesq
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PostSubject: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:48 am

An article on eBay says they are not. The thread on these forums say that they are because they were made in the 70s and 80s. I would still be concerned with calling them vintage original if they are not officially licensed, especially given the propensity of items coming from China to be fakes.
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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:07 pm

awesome - glad to see you joined here ...

Hopefully once you get the proper answer and information you will have a change of heart Very Happy

Just so the rest of you guys are aware - rayesq sent me a message at ebay bashing me for selling fake figures :

"If it has a China COO it is definitely REPRO.  You say in the description that you don't sell repro and that this is a "turtleneck" variant and that it is "vintage star wars", all of which are not true and misleading. "

Here is my Bespin leia :  http://www.ebay.com/itm/BESPIN-PRINCESS-LEIA-Turtleneck-China-Coo-variant-C9-vintage-Star-Wars-figure-/161668834482?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

I of course directed him here and also Rebelscum - if this isn't enough help then I fucking give up trying to help .

It really gets tiresome trying to educate people when they don't do proper research and make false accusations based on that idiotic Ebay thread Evil or Very Mad

The thread where this tiresome subject has been discussed before ...

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t5231-outing-incorrect-information-online-etc-post-thread


Don't get me wrong , you guys know I liove to help people but I get sick of trying to be nice to assholes that accuse me of selling fake china figures up yours
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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:19 pm

James, how dare you sell fake figures. Go and receive 40 lashes in the dungeon immediately Razz


@ Rayesq - James (Ourchickenshack) is absolutely right. China COOs are 100% legit and that eBay article spouting utter nonsense should have been pulled down ages ago because it causes nothing but grief.

Definitely read as many threads  as you can on TIG, Rebelscum and StarWarsForumUK if you're serious about collecting and educating yourself.

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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:58 pm

How does 10 posts equate to a tiresome exhaustion of the topic Chickensht? Your thread simply says "they are real". Who is saying it? What are their credentials? You say I do no research, but you have absolutely nothing showing China made licensed Star Wars figures.

While tou might be right in the end, treating people like crap is not the way to foster good will in the community. I thought we could discuss via email instead of in public but if you insist on doing it here, fine.

China is well known for selling fake coins and other products to unsuspecting Americans. Ebay has a post saying they are fake. Some random person on a thread here DOES NOT SUBSTANTIATE ANYTHING.

You being so defensive just makes you look guilty. You would think with your extensive background in these figures and your EXHAUSTION with the topic you could point to more than a thread with a bare assertion "they are real" "I'm selling them and am completely unbiased".
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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:09 pm

It appears from this http://swspaceclub.com/wbobafett/introduction-coos/
that even if the China COO figures are "vintage" they are from altered molds and so not "original" but repro.
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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:29 pm

good god guys - can someone help point this fucking douchebag in the right direction ?

I am tired of idiots ruining my day and wasteing my time :I am stupid:


I brought it here because you obviously are not going to take just my word for it . If you want to "foster good relationships" try asking questions instead of sending me accusations stating I am selling fakes .


Before you put your foot in your mouth anymore, give the guys here a little while to reply . Also feel free to post your questions at Rebelscum - you will get the same answers there .

BTW - How exactly am I a "chicken shit" when I asked you to come here to begin with ?

Where are my credentials ? I have been collecting , buying and selling Star Wars figures for 10 years . I am a pretty well respected member of the collector community and a very well respected seller , as can be seen from my feedback here and on Ebay (pretty fucking hard to do better then 100 %) . I was a moderator here for a couple years as well ...

Where are your credentials ? Your basing your opinion on a single ebay article that has been causing trouble for years - well done jackass :clap:
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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:50 pm

Let's keep this thread civil please everyone.

rayesq wrote:
How does 10 posts equate to a tiresome exhaustion of the topic Chickensht?  Your thread simply says "they are real". Who is saying it? What are their credentials? You say I do no research, but you have absolutely nothing showing China made licensed Star Wars figures.

The 10 posts may not be 'tiresome exhaustion' because the subject has been done to death already.

Did you read the (older) RS link in that thread?

Here it is again: http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1074801/


rayesq wrote:

Ebay has a post saying they are fake. Some random person on a thread here DOES NOT SUBSTANTIATE ANYTHING.  

These 'randon' persons on (both) threads are all seasoned SW collectors and it's better to believe these guys than one person on eBay who has made not one but two inaccurate articles re vintage SW collecting.

Baggies and moc have all been found from the vintage era with China COO stamps. China COOs are not fake.

Keep reading up, you'll see  Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:07 pm

This is as civil as I am going to be Paul ...

I don't have time to argue with idiots , if this guy continues to be one he can straight up go fuck himself .

you guys don't like it , ban me ...


His original question that he sent me at ebay :

"If it has a China COO it is definitely REPRO.  You say in the description that you don't sell repro and that this is a "turtleneck" variant and that it is "vintage star wars", all of which are not true and misleading. "


My original answer :

"Hi - The information you are referring to is totally false - I have seen it and whoever wrote it is a uninformed idiot. Star Wars figures were produced and released from 1977 - 1985 . While the us may not have had relationship with China in 1977/ 1978 we did have a relationship from 1979 through 1985 - thats 6 years that star wars figures WERE made in some China factories (as well as Hong Kong , Taiwan , Macau and more factories arround the world than you have any idea) . Just because stormtrooper figures have a date stamp of 1977 it does not mean that they were not actually produced at different dates - Kenner kept the same dates on all the original figures when they were released for the later movies (Empire in 1980, Return of Jedi 1982 ) - basically , even if a stormtrooper was released in Empire Strkes Back or ROTJ packaging it still had the 1977 date .
I really don't want to spend any more time trying to educate you but here is a great website that addresses the very same issue that you have been missinformed about : http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t5231-outing-incorrect-information-online-etc-post-thread
This is a FANTASTIC Website called The Imperial Gunnery (TIG) but there is another respected site as well called Rebelscum that you can look into as well . You should do your research at these places and you will quickly find out the truth that you are seeking . I believe that you will have to join TIG to view the forums but it is simple - username , password - and its free . From your low feedback and lack of knowledge I assume you must be new to star wars collecting - I highly recommend the website

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t5231-outing-incorrect-information-online-etc-post-thread

As you can see your not the 1st person who has fell for the misinformation - I get tired of trying to explain things to people that have the nerve to accuse me of wrongdoing when they can't do proper research themselves . "



Although it was mostly just a cut and paste of the answer I gave the last guy that accused me of selling fakes , it was civil and aimed at directing him somewhere he could get more information .

I simply don't have the patience or time to argue with people over the same subject .


Last edited by ourchickenshack on Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:20 pm

Indeed full normalization of diplomatic and commercial relations between US and China commenced in 1979.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_trade_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China

However the "China" description was applied to some steel moulds while leaving the original year that the copyright was granted for a certain figure. Which makes sense off course as country of production and copyright are two different and independent things. Something which the author of that biased ebay article seemed to neglect.  

So that's why you can end up with for instance a "China" stamp, combined with a "1977" copyright year on a Stormtrooper figure
Despite the 1977 stamp, the production of the Stromtrooper figure in China factories did first take place after 1979 (somewhere in early 80s), and you understand why now. And why these figures are not fakes but genuine vintage figures instead.

After already having received the opinion of two very respected members of this vintage community (Paul, James), I hope it is all clear now.

You can trust James 200% when buying vintage Star Wars. And I know him as a honest and friendly person.
So yes, I can imagine very well that it must be very frustrating for him to be accused of something he detests the most, that is selling fakes and reproductions.

My advice: shake hands with James, and while happily collecting, keep on reading about the hobby, be active on forums. There are a lot of good people out there who can help you.

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:58 pm

Thank You Marco and Paul for your support cheers


It really annoys me to be accused of selling fakes but even more so because it is based on that idiotic ebay article Evil or Very Mad

That damn article has haunted me for years - I know I have had to educate at least 8 other ebayer's over the years Mad

Every time , after I have taken the time to try and help them , they have "seen the light" , so to speak . It is very frustrating when you try to help and you feel like your arguing with a brick wall :buzzing:

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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:24 pm

rayesq wrote:
It appears from this http://swspaceclub.com/wbobafett/introduction-coos/
that even if the China COO figures are "vintage" they are from altered molds and so not "original" but repro.

Perhaps you should continue reading the same article you linked all the way through. Pay special attention to the coo families. Then look at the coo guide. I suggest you also read the rebelscum thread that Paul linked. You will also find pictures of baggies, figures, and if I remeber right even cardbacks saying the figure is made in China. Hopefully after you educate yourself a small bit then you "will see the light" as it was put. That article on ebay is 100 percent wrong regarding these and I think the author was notified. I seem to remember AJ saying he emailed and finally spoke to the guy and the guy linked to the various threads or something, but I may be thinking about the other guide about weapons (also full of misinformation). James is a top notch fellow though so before you accuse him or anyone else of wrong doing I would suggest opening Google and perhaps searching for a few answers. Probably would have brought up these threads as has been posted.

With TIG being one of the top Star Wars sites around and the top variant and information site with multiple guides there is no steering someone wrong here. If you still don't believe us then you will have a very hard time when it comes to erased, no coo figures; not to mention getting into bootlegs or any other avenue of collecting.

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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:36 pm

Oh if you think James was being rude or disrespectful, we'll go ahead and send the owner of that site a message about how all China coo markings are fake and that his stuff is repro. His name is wolff. I can only imagine that Wolff's response to that will make James's responses here seem like he was being saintly.

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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:18 pm

Thank You Bryan cheers

very excellent points :clap:

lol! about Wolff - I would love to see what he would have to say , his teeth are much sharper then mine Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:09 pm

one more attempt at a civil discussion :

Here is a really great read on some actual Repro figures :

http://www.imperialgunnery.com/reproductionfigures.htm


The main point of interest there that relates to the thread here is : The figures aren't even marked "China" - they are Hong Kong or No coo at all .

If you were going to make fake figures , would you stamp them China if no other actual real vintage figures were stamped China ? Might as well stamp them Fake , repro or whatever .


Another great source of information for Bespin Leia's in particular can be found here :

http://leia.bespin.info/


and specific info about her coo's available here :

http://leia.bespin.info/index.php?pageID=2


and even her China coo explained in depth :

http://leia.bespin.info/index.php?pageID=24
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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:17 pm

It looks like I missed all the fun discussion again. lol!

It seems like that stupid ebay article hasn't been taken down yet.Evil or Very Mad    I think the guy who wrote the article, just doesn't want anyone else to collect them, because he wants them all for him self. Cool

So for all the new vintage collectors, you can send me all the "Raised Bar China" figures that you find.  They are some of the harder to find COO variants out there.  If you guys don't want them, please send them to me. What a Face   I will gladly find them a home.  I will even take those pesky "Japan" COO figures as well. What a Face  

James, knows what what he's talking about.

This guy must have really got under James's skin, too get him worked up like this.


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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:29 pm

rayesq wrote:
It appears from this http://swspaceclub.com/wbobafett/introduction-coos/
that even if the China COO figures are "vintage" they are from altered molds and so not "original" but repro.

That's not what Wolff says.  The original steel mold was stamped with HONG KONG.  When the steel mold was "transfered or moved" to a different factory in China,  the stamp was simply altered to a "blank raised bar" or a "china raised bar".  They still produced vintage "original" figures for Kenner.

rayesq wrote:
An article on eBay says they are not. The thread on these forums say that they are because they were made in the 70s and 80s. I would still be concerned with calling them vintage original if they are not officially licensed, especially given the propensity of items coming from China to be fakes.

These particular figures were licensed by Kenner, and there was more than one factory producing figures for Kenner.  When production was moved to a different factory, they just altered the COO to suit.  But was still a licensed Kenner figure. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:17 pm

Well, if James/chickensht is a respected leader in the Star Wars collecting community and treats people like this, I think you guys need to find a better leadership. I've interacted with him before and he had the same attitude then. I think it is indeed chicken to bring someone to your online buddies' forum and throw stones.

It is not "accusing" someone to send a private message. It's when you tell everyone. To bring me here to try and make me feel like an idiot is just compensation for personal deficiencies. I'm sorry if you are so insecure. Good luck selling your vintage fakes/bootlegs.
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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:21 pm

PS, if you want to apologize for your crap attitude, let me know. I'm sorry you feel like telling multiple people the same thing is like talking to a brick wall. I advise people in court of the same crap over and over but hey, they are different people, why would I take it out on them for having to explain something I've explained to 100 OTHER people?
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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:49 pm

You started the shit attitude by sending me a message that stated I was selling fakes . You didn't ask questions in a polite manor so why the hell would I feel like I need to explain myself to a guy who has been on ebay for 6 months and didn't join a respected forum until today ?

What entitles you to respect when you chose not to start a conversation off with it to me ?

You can either learn something here or not - your attempt to slander my character will only fall on deaf ears .

You get respect by giving it - now , not only did you disrespect me , you have continued to stick to your guns , even with other well respected members trying to show you the facts , and disrespected them as well .

Your off to a great start in this community you speak of Rolling Eyes

Please , post your feelings on how we are all wrong about China coo's at Rebelscum - those wolverines will eat you alive lol!

If your feeling extra brave , contact Wolff at his site : http://swspaceclub.com/wbobafett/

That's the guy who your were referring to his altered fake China coo figures ... I'm sure you will be greeted warmly Twisted Evil


When you decide to apologize for your shit attitude I really won't give a fuck , you've already crossed a line with me that it wouldn't make a difference anyway .
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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:37 pm

rayesq wrote:
It is not "accusing" someone to send a private message.

WTF? Really you can't accuse someone of something in a one on one conversation? You can't accuse someone in a private message? This is absolutely wrong (much like the article on ebay). If I am not mistaken James posted the message verbatim and it sounded pretty accusatory to me. Something along the statement of you say you don't sell repros, you say these are vintage figures, then YOU stated that all of the above is untrue. That is an accusation. In fact multiple accusations. You accused him of selling fake items, you accused him of selling a non vintage item, you accused him of being a dishonest liar and putting up some misinformation. Perhaps James was a bit quick with jumping on you, but looks like you cast the first stone in this case. I would take considerable offense to being called a liar and told that any of the items I was trying to sell are fake, especially knowing that they are real and that a few seconds of searching would have revealed that they are authentic. Much like law and legal proceedings, a bit of research could/would have prevented this entire thread. Oh and please join up on rebelscum.....can't wait until you cross someone like Ian_C or JohnA or one of the other guys who have been around a while.

By the way I don't think anyone is sticking up for James because we are "forum buddies", more like we are sticking up for him because that article is wrong and his figure is authentic. Of course reading the thread that was posted you would have seen the pics of the sealed Baggie figures that say made in China on them........oh they must be fake also with someone getting small vintage baggies and printing up the made in China on them and then making the China stamped figure and heat sealing them in the baggie. doh

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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:00 am

5 second Google search just to see what would come up. Not only found the threads that have already been posted but also one on swfuk.

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9824

How many people do you need to tell you the guy wrote a bad article with misinformation before you get it. Why stop with the threads though. Please search for afa graded or ukg graded figures with made in China. The toy graders must be wrong on those also right? (The toy graders get plenty wrong, but not on these).

Another 5 second search this time on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=star+wars+ledy&LH_PrefLoc=2&_sop=10&_from=R40%7CR40%7CR40%7CR40%7CR40%7CR40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xstar+wars+vintage+china.TRS2&_nkw=star+wars+vintae+china&_sacat=0

Guess all these sellers are wrong and are selling fakes. Please send each one a message letting them know. Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:06 am

SLANDER (Black's Law Dictionary)
Definition of SLANDER: In torts. Oral defamation; the speaking of false and malicious words concerning another, whereby injury results to his reputation.

How can you damage someone's reputation in a private message?

Just because there is a bigger a-hole out there doesn't make you less of one.

When someone has accused me of something privately I talked it through with them instead of dragging them into a forum and flogging them. Take off your panties and don't be so freaking sensitive.

Wonderfully proud community you have going if this is how you treat people.


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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:10 am

I'm done with this. If someone wants to talk about it without berating me feel free. I missed the comment before my earlier 2 before I wrote them by Commander Clint. It looks like he's the only one with any sense of how to communicate with someone. He actually said Kenner did license the figures. Thank you for your decorum and I will look into that.
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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:17 am

Can someone please point me to the substantiating source that Kenner did in fact license products for sale in China, such as an interview with a Kenner employee, statement by an employee of Lucasfilm or otherwise?
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PostSubject: Re: Are China COO figures considered vintage original? YES   Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:17 am

I guess I am asking "how do you know it was licensed?"
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