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 Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers

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TheJabbaWookie
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PostSubject: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:11 am

I recently bought a Luke Bespin and a Luke Jedi as upgrades and am looking for some help confirming the originality of my existing and new sabers (sabers being my kryptonite - I can never tell for sure 100%).

TIG is not that definitive on it especially when it comes to the yellow Luke Bespin saber. The original version with the three buttons inside a rectangle inset into the handle no longer exists though they reference it when comparing Repro 1 and Repro 2. C’mon guys sort it out!

So I’m turning to you guys to help me out. They all look legit though I am not in ownership of an outpost Repro variant of the yellow and green Bespin saber to eliminate conclusively. The one that concerns me most is the yellow saber with the inset rectangle as the buttons are a little smaller than the green. But there are none of the issues flagged up under Repro v4 on the site as far as I can tell. Also the other yellow saber has excess flashing but looks like a v1 or v2 I think and there are no other repros out there like it according to TIG.

They all float by the way. The three with the inset rectangle all have circular EPMs. Appreciate any help given. Cheers Jay


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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:30 pm

it just so happens we are in the process of reworking that saber section. I do have a couple of original comparison pics but don't have the time at the moment to dig them out. Let me come back to this topic in a day or two when I get a bit more time and see if I can find those pics.  

AJ (aussiejames) or PAUL (artoo detour) may be able to help a bit faster than I can if you want to send a pm to him regarding these.

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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:09 pm

The Luke Jedi green sabres look have consistent features to the legit spares I have. I think they look OK
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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:40 pm

@trappedtexan wrote:
it just so happens we are in the process of reworking that saber section. I do have a couple of original comparison pics but don't have the time at the moment to dig them out. Let me come back to this topic in a day or two when I get a bit more time and see if I can find those pics.  

AJ (aussiejames) or PAUL (artoo detour) may be able to help a bit faster than I can if you want to send a pm to him regarding these.

Thanks I’ll see if they reply, if not I’ll pm them.
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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:34 pm

As Bryan says we're working on an update for the sabers section based on new info we have. and also to reflect the new floating repros that recently came on the market. We're also looking to reinstate a previous V5 entry we once had. The yellow saber on the left of your pic I agree looks like V1 or V2. The yellow saber to the right I'm not sure. The green sabers look okay but it's hard to be 100% without having them in hand against known originals ever since the Outpost repros arrived on the scene.

My advice to anyone at the moment who is unsure of their sabers is to put them in quarantine until more info arrives.

We could use some fresh pics of the existing yellow Luke Bespin sabers we have, so if any collectors out there would like to post them to this thread for potential use on IG then please do!

In the meantime, keep checking the existing info on the site and also check this thread for updates on repro: http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t9156-more-more-fakes-handheld-sabers

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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:40 pm

@ArtooDetour wrote:
As Bryan says we're working on an update for the sabers section based on new info we have. and also to reflect the new floating repros that recently came on the market. We're also looking to reinstate a previous V5 entry we once had. The yellow saber on the left of your pic I agree looks like V1 or V2. The yellow saber to the right I'm not sure. The green sabers look okay but it's hard to be 100% without having them in hand against known originals ever since the Outpost repros arrived on the scene.

My advice to anyone at the moment who is unsure of their sabers is to put them in quarantine until more info arrives.

We could use some fresh pics of the existing yellow Luke Bespin sabers we have, so if any collectors out there would like to post them to this thread for potential use on IG then please do!

In the meantime, keep checking the existing info on the site and also check this thread for updates on repro: http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t9156-more-more-fakes-handheld-sabers
Thanks Paul. I know it’s not ideal but can you still get your hands on the Outpost repros? I’d like to get my hands on one for comparison. I bought some of the repros that paugildin-6 has been selling and that has really helped (and it’s 8 less repros finding there way on to the open market).

Unless in your latest update you’re going to be updating the quality of the outpost photos to match the latest uploads? That might do it.
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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:50 pm

Are you sure the middle two sabers do not have the tapered bit at the hilt?
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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:53 am

L to R: 2x 'berlin' repros, 2x 'new UK' repros, 2x originals







L to R: 'berlin' repro, 2 x 'new UK' repros, 2x original HK, 1x Taiwan



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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:48 am

Hi AJ,

just double checked them all again (realising that it was the side profile I needed to view) and the yellow one has the tapering mentioned. The green ones are both fine. The button sizes are identical on the green ones, whereas the yellow ones are smaller and were my cause for concern.

So I am assuming that the yellow one is an outpost reproduction so I won’t need to get my hands on one as a comparison anymore!

Thanks for everyone’s help. Look forward to the updates on the site.
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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:01 am

Just saw your latest posts - So the Berlin (is that the Outpost?) has an EPM on the handle, the new UK ones don’t, the original HK don’t and the Taiwan does? Is that always the case or can the repros and originals be found with and without EPMs?
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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:50 am

@TheJabbaWookie wrote:
So the Berlin (is that the Outpost?) has an EPM on the handle, the new UK ones don’t, the original HK don’t and the Taiwan does? Is that always the case

yes & yes. I still think your middle green one is a 'berlin outpost', note the rough texture of the hilt of your yellow fake, is the texture of both your green ones the same? I am not familiar with two different green Taiwans.
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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:51 am

@TheJabbaWookie wrote:
Just saw your latest posts - So the Berlin (is that the Outpost?) has an EPM on the handle, the new UK ones don’t, the original HK don’t and the Taiwan does? Is that always the case or can the repros and originals be found with and without EPMs?

Hi,

Regarding the fake sabres,  can someone post any link to the discussion about Outpost, Berlin or any of the other fakers. I would like to read up about it. Does anyone have spare fake sabre from these seller, so I can get a copy?

Regarding genuine sabres... I can show you 100% GENUINE sabres from the three factories that made the Kenner & Palitoy Luke Jedi figures; I took a photo this morning of the four main Kenner & Palitoy Luke Jedi Sabres



Starting with the Top...

Taiwan Green Sabre (Factory 1 - TJ)
This is slightly darker than the Hong Kong Variants and it has a EPM mark above the button panel. I have never seen one without a EPM.

Hong Kong Green Sabre (Factory 2 - HT)
This has no panel but three large buttons (it is not a Lili Ledy Sabre)

Hong Kong Green Sabre (Factory 3 - HN)
This has indented panel surrounding the button (similar to the Taiwan), but has slightly larger buttons than the Taiwan and the buttons appear more sharper.

Hong Kong Blue Sabre (Factory 3 - HN)
This is exactly the same as the green sabre above and made by the same factory (HN) who's sabres were originally produced in Blue plastic. It is the only factory that produced the blue sabre.

**Note some of the Blue sabres in circulation have an extra but very tiny raised dot on them (it due to a pit-spot damage on the mould die)


More photos below, maybe you can compare your hilts and the blades with these photos.

I have never seen a genuine Taiwan sabre without the EPM mark (doesn't mean they don't exist, it just I never seen one whilst building my focus over 10 years). Now that you mention the middle green one has no EPM, I looked at it more closer with a real one in my hand and I think I might of been wrong in my original reply. I don't think it is real. Sorry about my mistake.







EDIT: Re-loaded Photos Cropped to Help with Resolution
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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:49 am

Craig the 'outpost Berlin' have actually existed for a decade  Shocked :
http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t8869-reproduction-sabers-outpost-berlin


the 'new ones' are part of the latest reproductions coming out of the UK



http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t9156-more-more-fakes-handheld-sabers
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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:05 pm

The middle green one has an EPM. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t taper. It’s the latest one I’ve just bought as it had no damage, so I want to get to the bottom of it, as I will send it back if it’s not right, but I want to be sure.

I’ll try and take some better photos tomorrow.
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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:56 am

I don’t have a macro lens but I think these are a bit better and include side profiles to illustrate tapering.

You can clearly see the yellow Berlin Outpost saber tapering in where the handle meets the hilt and I don’t believe this is the case with the middle green one.

The buttons are of a similar size on the two green variants and similarly spaced apart whereas the yellow one is smaller and further apart (see yellow Outpost variant 4 Repro on the TIG site).

To me (now with it in hand and having spent more time examining them since starting this thread) I think it is clear that it is not the green Outpost variant Repro 3 on the TIG site, however, I also recognise that the two green variants are not identical - could be down to the slight damage the right one has sustained?

AJ you’re far more experienced than me though - what do you think now?



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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:48 am

Jay, I am leaning towards the middle one being OK. The colour difference is my only concern, but as we both know- degrading/ colour mix can vary. Your right one you will see an injection/sprue point at the very end of the hilt, does the middle one have this injection point?
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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:24 pm

Fantastic coincidence that I was just looking for information regarding my two recently acquired Bespin lightsabers. I judged them to be a V2 and a V4, but the V4 has a couple of characteristics that make me uncertain.

First is the color. The V2 has an appearance of slight translucency, and just ever so slightly dulled lemon yellow as if mildly faded. The V4 is a very solid sunshine yellow with no appearance of translucency, and very bright.

The second is the weird angular end to the V4. It appears as if it was clipped at an angle rather than being flat.

Hopefully the pics will illustrate.





Darkened to show more detail...




It appears tapered in this picture, but it's just the angle. There is no tapering toward the guard
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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:39 pm

@aussiejames wrote:
Jay, I am leaning towards the middle one being OK.  The colour difference is my only concern, but as we both know- degrading/ colour mix can vary.  Your right one you will see an injection/sprue point at the very end of the hilt, does the middle one have this injection point?
Are you referring to the slightly indented circular impression directly below the three buttons on the first two pics?
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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:11 pm

CC both your sabers are fine.


Jay I am talking about the injection point where the plastic is injected/where it would be cut off from the mould tree:
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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:12 pm

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t6750p15-new-weapon-guide-an-attempt

Some saber info in this thread specifically.

Below are some sprue trees that are star wars specific from a find by earth toy mall in 2004ish I think it was.




The injection point on these bespin and jedi sabers are at the bottom of the hilt. Notice injection points are different from epm marks. Epm, which stands for ejector pin mark, is a place within a mold cavity where an ejector pin would actually come through the mold and push the finished molded part out of the mold cavity. I have never looked closely at the sabers to see where they have epm marks (if they do). I believe it is possible that because they would have been on a central sprue tree that they do not have epm marks. The tree itself would have been used to pull the sabers from the mold possibly. I would have to look into this further, but it would make sense that a slender long straight piece (such as the saber) may not need any further extraction help from the mold other than the central tree being pulled out.

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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:25 am

Sorry AJ I don’t know what I’m looking for - perhaps you could ring the area on one of the better pixelation shots in this thread. scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:33 am

@aussiejames wrote:
CC both your sabers are fine.

Thanks, AJ
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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:30 am

Happy to say the conclusion reached was both green sabers were Taiwan v4. Very Happy

You often see the rarer Taiwan molded Face Luke Jedi paired with the snap cape and blue saber. Looking at Craig T’s photos he labels the blue saber as Hong Kong. If I understand Craig’s post correctly the Hong Kong factory was the only factory that made the blue saber - does this mean that the Taiwan molded Face would definitely have been paired with a green Taiwan saber v4 and never a blue one?
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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:27 am

That's right, Made in Taiwan Luke Jedi figures all came with green sabres - even the very very first releases that had a snap cape packaged in a baggie.

You can see the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Edition Luke Jedi MOC from the TJ factoy here: Taiwan Snap Capes


1st Edition MOC - Moulded Face, Green Sabre, Snap Cape (bagged)
2nd Edition MOC - Moulded Face, Green Sabre, Snap Cape (loose)
3rd Edition MOC - Painted Face, Green Sabre, Snap Cape (loose)
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PostSubject: Re: Luke Bespin & Jedi Sabers   Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:22 pm

Wow Craig, just viewed your loose and MOC collection of Luke Jedis. I don’t think I’ll be questioning anything you say Luke Jedi related EVER.
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