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 Darth Vader coo HON KONG

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Jedijoe
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PostSubject: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:53 am

I was checking my Vader's last night to see if I had one with just "Taiwan." Instead I found one with a coo of HON KONG. The G is not scratched out it's just missing. I've been checking the web for info. but have come up empty. Has anyone seen or heard of this?
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:48 pm

Pictures would be great help. Various errors can effect coo markings. The most common of which is a short shot which is a case of just not enough plastic filling the mold cavity completly but generally we would see more than a single letter effected.

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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:51 pm

I'm having trouble posting photos. Any suggestions?
Thanks
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:58 pm

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t8415-posting-photos-to-the-forum-and-other-useful-topics

Multiple options to be able to do it, if none of those are successful email to aussiejames, artoodetour, or darthberizing and one of them can post it for you. I would say email me, but I use yahoo mail and it has been giving me fits lately so I haven't checked it in I don't even know how long.


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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:28 pm











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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:36 pm

Cant say I have seen this. Oddly the line continues down the leg with no sign of anything interfering with the formation of the "G". It is as if the "G" was never stamped into the mold at all. Curious if this is a known coo as I know some have missing digits and whatnot but it isn't one I have seen. Let me look around and see what I can come up with.

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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:44 pm

Is there any official provenance with this Vader? Did I come from a kenner source or how did you come by it? What saber did it have?

In searching for just a few seconds I found an ep Vader with this marking that had a dt saber with it that at some point was looked at by CIB and Bill McBride. However if you do not have rock solid proof of where it came from then labeling it as an ep would be way out of place. Perhaps this mold survived and some figures made it to production.  Oscar (m4k31 or similar username) and Bill McBride are the Vader guys to ask. I would try to contact them. Bill doesn't hit the forums much anymore but his site is sithtoys I think. Searching that may get you his email. Oscar still visits from time to time so try to pm him via here.

http://maxwebsterauctioneer.hibid.com/lot/78377-58864-1383/prototype-double-telescoping-darth-vader-ep/

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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:08 pm

Hi fellas,
This is an interesting figure to me, I had seen some photos of one before, but I have not seen one in person.
Great work Bryan finding the Dewey Shumate EP figure, to me it looks exactly the same as this one, and I agree with you that the G in Hong looks like it is was left out of the stamp completely. It is clean all around and I cant see signs of removal.
It is my understanding that an EP is essentially a production quality figure, only EP's have the provenance behind them.
You really need to contact more experienced guys in vintage prototypes/EP's like Bill or Tom from CIB regarding this.
I hope it turns out to be a great find for you, but if it turns out to be a regular figure and you would like to sell it, then please let me know, I would love to see this in person.
Regards
Oscar
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:39 pm

Thanks for chiming in Oscar. As I understand it ep or engineering pilot (I think that is what it stands for) is basically the last step before production run. Steve dwyer once explained this to me, but I didn't dig the messages out so may have my wires crossed but I think it was basically: sculpt, hardcopy, first shot, ep, production. This would make since as all ep pieces have coo markings where as first shots can have them or not have them depending on the stage the mold was in. Hardcopies I don't believe will ever have coo markings as the marks were made into the mold and the mold was.made from the hardcopy itself.  This means that ep figures are essentially production figures but with kenner contact provenance behind them. They sometimes feature different or unique paint, sculpt stuff but I am no expert on prototypes for sure.  

I want to be certain I am saying this clear for the op. This piece would need further study and confirmation from some experts in the field (I.e. Tom Derby or Bill McBride) and in no way should this piece be considered an ep or any part of the prototype stage without further investigation. It is entirely plausible that this was an early mold with limited production prior to noticing the misspelling and correction, which would mean it is merely a production piece. Hopefully further investigation of it can confirm one way or the other.

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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:30 am

Would photos of any other part of the figure help in determining what this is? I believe this figure had its saber but I took it out for storage and didn't label it. I have four sabers and I don't know which one is which.
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:42 am

@Jedijoe wrote:
Would photos of any other part of the figure help in determining what this is?  I believe this figure had its saber but I took it out for storage and didn't label it.  I have four sabers and I don't know which one is which.  

We may be able to help determine which saber goes with this figure.
Please could provide pictures of the 4 sabers (from right angles should be fine), including any letter(s) on the hilt and where the tip gets thinner at the end.
I assume none of the 4 sabers you have are DT (double-telescoping - ie. the thin tip moves in and out from the wider part)?
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:28 pm

I thought this Vader was a more recent acquisition that came with two sabers, however I was wrong. Based on that I was able to eliminate two of the sabers from photos I took at the time of that recent find. I have two other sabers that could have come with this Vader, but I cannot say with any certainty that this Vader came with a saber. Here are the two remaining sabers that may have possibly come with this Vader.

I have no history of any Kenner employee being connected to this figure. I am almost certain I picked this up on Ebay.

Sam










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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:39 pm

As I'm looking at these enlarged photos I just posted I noticed the texture on the inside of Vader's cape. This is the only Vader I have with this type of cape. Please correct me if I'm using the wrong term, Cape/Robe.

Thanks!
SAm
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:34 pm

@Jedijoe wrote:
As I'm looking at these enlarged photos I just posted I noticed the texture on the inside of Vader's cape.  This is the only Vader I have with this type of cape.  Please correct me if I'm using the wrong term, Cape/Robe.

Thanks!
SAm


Both sabers have the "I" letter in relief on the hilt by the looks of it, the one with the broken tip has a raised dot also (which is perfectly valid - I have a Luke DT saber with a raised dot and multiple early non-DT Vader ones with raised dots too). Both sabers are flat transitions also.
Flat transition lettered sabers are earlier moulds, so either one of your sabers could possibly have come with that figure. However because you can't guarantee the provenance of the figure or saber I have to add the disclaimer that only an expert with a lot of experience with early and pre-production figures can provide you with any certainty.

I've also never seen an original cape with that pattern. If i came across this then I would assume it was an aftermarket addition, however if the figure is EP then it's possible this was an EP cape, again, consult the experts on this. Or maybe we'll get lucky and someone on this board might have more info.

I'm going to step away at this point and watch since I have no pre-production figure experience, and leave you in the capable hands of Bryan and Oscar.

It's certainly an interesting one, and good luck in uncovering more info about it!

Mat
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:40 pm

Is it unusual that the hilt with the dot is on the opposite side of the hilt as saber with just the I?
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:49 pm

Does anyone have an email address or a way to contact Bill Mcbride or Tom Derby? I tried Bill's website but something must be wrong with it. Thanks!

Sam
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:23 pm

Last contacts I had for them are

Bill McBride:  sithtoys@aol.com

Tom Derby:   tom@collectinvest.com

or here is their ebay store I believe if you want to try to contact him thru here.

https://www.ebay.com/usr/collectibleinvestmentbrokerage

I should add, I haven't spoken to either of them in quite some time, and last I heard Tom was having health issues himself or within his family so he was stepping back a bit from things. Bill is around and hit rebelscum not to long ago on a thread but think he is primarily on facebook these days.

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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:25 pm

@Jedijoe wrote:
Is it unusual that the hilt with the dot is on the opposite side of the hilt as saber with just the I?

No that's quite normal. They're different moulds. If you imagine them in rows mirroring each other (so ever other one is facing the same way) that's how they were produced on the sprue (pic here [1]). Oscar has a great page where he was collecting all the Vader lettered sabers and that shows they're on different sides, so I'm not surprised. In fact both of yours are already on Oscars page:
http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t6953-list-of-lettered-hilt-lightsabers-concentrated-on-darth-

[1] http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif


Last edited by mat8yr on Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:37 pm

The cape that is on your figure, to me personally is a real cape, (although many others claim it to be a reproduction.)
The reason I personally say it is a real cape is because this type of cape (shown in your photo) generally has one side that has a pitted look to it, BUT it is as far as I have seen this version cape, always paired with a family III coo figure, (Wollfs coo guide)
Your figure although it is missing the G is the family III coo mold.

I have 3 of these capes all on family III coo mold, (III 1b) it should be a thick flexy feel
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:08 pm

Oh damn, just when you thought you had all the Vader variations... head bang

Thanks Oscar for the clarification! Has that variation been found carded? I guess we're forever learning new stuff... my variation hunt continues...
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:32 pm

@mat8yr wrote:
Oh damn, just when you thought you had all the Vader variations... head bang

Thanks Oscar for the clarification! Has that variation been found carded? I guess we're forever learning new stuff... my variation hunt continues...

I imagine it's impossible to see on the card
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:40 pm

@Broke wrote:
@mat8yr wrote:
Oh damn, just when you thought you had all the Vader variations... head bang

Thanks Oscar for the clarification! Has that variation been found carded? I guess we're forever learning new stuff... my variation hunt continues...

I imagine it's impossible to see on the card

Oh yeah, sorry i wasn't very clear, I meant has the patterned cape be found carded? I'm trying to ascertain if there's evidence that cape is original. Yeah, I would think the coo markings would be near impossible to see on a card, it's more about looking for ways to identify a family III vader without being able to see the coo, ie. use the cape texture
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:35 pm

The cape looks to me like the rough and glossy cape PBP variant that is identified in Javi Ruilopez’ Star Wars Made in Spain book on page 65. I’ve seen a few of these in pics before but never one in person, and am not a PBP expert. You might want to ask hellhippie if he recognises it.
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:38 pm

Also I recently came across an Admiral Ackbar with an unusual Coo where the c in the copyright circle is elevated. Is this similar? Anyone know much about it?
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Vader coo HON KONG   Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:38 pm

@TheJabbaWookie wrote:
The cape looks to me like the rough and glossy cape PBP variant that is identified in Javi Ruilopez’ Star Wars Made in Spain book on page 65. I’ve seen a few of these in pics before but never one in person, and am not a PBP expert. You might want to ask hellhippie if he recognises it.

It does have the same textural look as the pbp.
http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t1066-pbp-vader-do-they-exist-or-not



@TheJabbaWookie wrote:
Also I recently came across an Admiral Ackbar with an unusual Coo where the c in the copyright circle is elevated. Is this similar? Anyone know much about it?



Looks like a known coo marking to me? This picture is from an old guide. I see wolff hasn't got his return of the jedi section open to public so this is what we are left with to use for the time being.

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