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 Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question

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Calrissian_Charm
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:10 pm

I have come across another no-zip non-Taiwan Leia cape. (No, I haven't) It's on a black hair/belt HK sold to me by Iain Sanderson, definitely an upright dealer. I asked him about it, and he said the lot in came in had no other repro accessories in it, and that makes the idea of this cape being a repro a bit slimmer.

It is identical to my other no-zip non-Taiwan Leia cape, but I question if it's original to that figure. It's hard to tell. Even if the no-zip capes are early production, that doesn't preclude this figure from being early enough to have been shipped with this cape. Unfortunately, I don't have any way of knowing yet when the variants of this figure appeared. That will only come from examining carded examples. But I do think the case for the smooth HK cape being legitimate is much stronger.

Since the last time I posted in here, I have received 3 more Leias. The black hair/belt HK above, and a Taiwan variant with distinct paint apps, and a duplicate of the other Taiwan Leia's cape; smooth, thin, with horizontal line pattern. I also received another brown hair/belt HK Leia, with a zipping cape. She has much darker paint apps than the first.

I have now found a total of 7 distinct Leia variants, not counting COOs cheers


Last edited by Calrissian_Charm on Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:51 pm

So kenner did make a black hair and black belt figure? I was always under the impression that what collectors label as such was actually just a very dark chocolate brown. The only one I thought that has actual black paint apps was the glasslite. Admittedly I have never really studied up on Leia much as she is just not as interesting to me as other figures. Also since she wasn't included in the ledy lineup and my focus is that line, then she wasn't a figure i cared to go in depth with.

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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:16 pm

The HK black hair/belt Leia might get an argument on her hair, in the right light, but her belt is dead black, and I consider her hair black, too. It's darker than the darkest browns I've seen. Also, there's at least one no COO with dead black hair/belt. A little later, I'll take some pictures of the variants and post them. I also have an interesting blaster that doesn't quite match anything on TIG.
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:43 am

I have also come across a Leia Blaster that does not match any known variants listed on the TIG site. Talking to AJ he mentions that there are 7 known mold variants and verifies mine as one of these yet unidentified variants.

Talking with another Facebook member privately he has provided me with images of two previously unidentified mold sculpts showing clear identifiers, available in both blue and grey labelled BV1, BV2, GV1 and GV2. I can not post images of these as it is a private message. The conversation came about whilst discussing the Lili Ledy Leia Bespin and her blaster.

The Leia Bespin info site (http://leia.bespin.info/index.php?pageID=3) is interesting as it identifies some additional blaster variants. What is also interesting is that they show the current v4 rough sculpt as a variant of the current v3 and show similar identifiers (namely the two vertical lines).
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:09 am

That's great. I was building a case for how this blaster shared distinct qualities with known variants, and so was likely legit Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:30 am

Here are my Leia Blasters:


Row 1: v1 identified on TIG
Row 2: v2 Dark Blue / Black from TIG
Row 3: v3 Dark Blue from TIG
Row 4: v3 with vertical lines from TIG or v4 from Leia.bespin.info
Row 5 & 6: Lili Ledy rough sculpt on TIG and Leia.bespin.info (i am not sure if mine are the plain rough sculpt or the Lili Ledy rough sculpt as there are two similar Blasters identified on LBI)
Row 7: as yet unidentified BV2 blaster from pic sent on private message and confirmed as original by AJ (not shown on either TIG or Leia.bespin.info)

Interesting to note that TIG classifies the Lili Ledy rough sculpt as a separate variant to its v3, whereas Leia Bespin info does not. On the other hand LBI classifies the sculpt with the two vertical lines as a separate variant whereas TIG put it together in the same family as it’s v3.

Finally on the image I was sent there was a BV1 and BV2. I believe the BV1 is variant 3 as identified on TIG. However, the BV2 shown in row 7 above is not identified on any site and I have not come across it until it turned up with my latest Princess Leia.
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:43 am

@Calrissian_Charm wrote:
I have come across another no-zip non-Taiwan Leia cape. It's on a black hair/belt HK sold to me by Iain Sanderson, definitely an upright dealer. I asked him about it, and he said the lot in came in had no other repro accessories in it, and that makes the idea of this cape being a repro a bit slimmer.

It is identical to my other no-zip non-Taiwan Leia cape, but I question if it's original to that figure. It's hard to tell. Even if the no-zip capes are early production, that doesn't preclude this figure from being early enough to have been shipped with this cape. Unfortunately, I don't have any way of knowing yet when the variants of this figure appeared. That will only come from examining carded examples. But I do think the case for the smooth HK cape being legitimate is much stronger.

Since the last time I posted in here, I have received 3 more Leias. The black hair/belt HK above, and a Taiwan variant with distinct paint apps, and a duplicate of the other Taiwan Leia's cape; smooth, thin, with horizontal line pattern. I also received another brown hair/belt HK Leia, with a zipping cape. She has much darker paint apps than the first.

I have now found a total of 7 distinct Leia variants, not counting COOs cheers

I’d be interested to know the measurements of the Taiwan, HK zipping and HK non-zipping capes to help identify mine and see if there is any consistency. So that’s maI Mum height, maximum width, and distance from top of cape to top of arm holes. Also if you had a good enough camera to capture the textures of the Capes.

Does your HK zipping cape have the traditional cross-hatch pattern or something else. My zipping cape appears not to. It is hard to determine the cross hatch pattern on the white cape though and I am getting a x16 magnifying glass to help with identification for Christmas hopefully
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:39 am

I was wrong. The HK2 cape is a zipping cape, but the texture is so fine that I overlooked it, and could barely hear it. So, it's back to square one.

I'm going to post pictures and details for the Leia variants I have. I'm also going to use my own designation for COOs since Wolf's most current guide does not have this figure detailed, yet.

I'd also like to note that all the capes I have have a crosshatch patter, but some of them are so fine that they almost look like stippling. In just the right light, the crosshatch pattern can be seen. Some of my pictures don't distinguish this, but I tried.

From left to right: Hong Kong 1 (Possible EB), smooth cape, Hong Kong 1 - textured cape, Made in Hong Kong - textured cape, Hong Kong 2 - textured cape, Made in Taiwan 1 - smooth cape, Made in Taiwan 1.2 - smooth cape, No COO (poor sonic weld)





Hair Color Comparison




(The last cape is the most recent I've found on a second HK 2)



Top to bottom, same as left to right




Last edited by Calrissian_Charm on Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:42 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:12 am

HK 1 (Possible EB) - Light paint apps, smooth cape, satin finish outside, glossy finish inside, heavy thickness

For all the capes, when measuring from the armhole to another point, I measured from the center of the hole. Going through these, there is little difference, a millimeter or two, between most of the measurements of most of the capes. The biggest fluctuation is in length, but the length comes into factor largely in the "hood," that is the bit from the armhole to the top edge. The most notable exception is the Made in Hong Kong cape, which is much more narrow than any of the other capes.

All measurements are in centimeter/millimeters.

Cape measurements:
L - 8.5
W- 5.8
Distance between armholes - 1.9
Top of cape to armhole - R: 1.3, L: 1.3
Bottom of cape to armhole - R: 6, L: 6.1
Edge of cape to armhole - R: .8, L: .9



Outside of cape texture


Inside of cape texture












Last edited by Calrissian_Charm on Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:28 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:04 am

HK 1 #2 - "normal" paint apps, fine textured cape, crosshatch pattern, matte finish outside, satin finish inside, very heavy thickness

Cape measurements
H - 8.7
W - 5.9
Distance between armholes - 1.9
Top of cape to armhole - R: 1.5, L: 1.5
Bottom of cape to armhole - R: 6.2, L: 6.1
Edge of cape to armhole - R: .8, L: .9



Outside of cape


Inside of cape












Last edited by Calrissian_Charm on Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:26 am

Made in Hong Kong - very fine textured cape, crosshatch pattern, medium thickness, matte finish outside, glossy finish inside

Cape measurements
L - 8.8
W - 5.2
Distance between armholes - 1.7
Top of cape to armholes - R: 1.4, L: 1.4
Bottom of cape to armholes - R: 6.3, L: 6.2
Edge of cape to armholes - R: .9, L: .8



Outside of cape texture


Inside of cape texture












Last edited by Calrissian_Charm on Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:44 am

HK 2 - very fine textured cape, crosshatch pattern, satin finish outside, glossy finish inside, medium thickness

Cape measurements
#1
L - 8.5
W - 5.7
Distance between armholes - 1.9
Top of cape to armholes - R: 1.4, L: 1.3
Bottom of cape to armholes - R: 6.1, L: 6.2
Edge of cape to armholes - R: .9, L: .8

#2
L - 8.4
W - 5.8
Distance between armholes - 1.9
Top of cape to armholes - R: 1.7, L: 1.7
Bottom of cape to armholes - R: 6.05, L: 6.05
Edge of cape to armholes - R: .95, L: .9



Outside of cape


Inside of cape












Last edited by Calrissian_Charm on Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:07 pm

Made in Taiwan #1 - "standard" face paint apps, no zip cape, outside is rough textured like fine grained sandpaper, matte finish, inside is smooth with horizontal line pattern, satin, finish, thin

Cape measurements
L - 8.2
W - 5.5
Distance between armholes - 1.7
Top of cape to armholes - R: 1.4, L: 1.4
Bottom of cape to armholes - R: 6.2, L: 6.1
Edge of cape to armholes - R: .9, L: 1



Outside of cape


Inside of cape (Don't mind the orientation, the lines are horizontal)












Last edited by Calrissian_Charm on Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:20 pm

Made in Taiwan #2 - alternate paint apps, rough textured outside, matte finish, horizontal line pattern inside, satin finish, lightweight

Cape measurements
L - 8.55
W - 5.5
Distance between armholes - 1.7
Top of cape to armholes - R: 1.4, L: 1.4
Bottom of cape to armholes - R: 6.2, L: 6.1
Edge of cape to armholes - R: .9, L: 1



Outside of cape


Inside of cape (Disregard orientation, the lines are horizontal)










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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:32 pm

No COO (poor sonic weld) - Black hair/belt, outside of cape has vertical line pattern, matte finish, inside of cape is textured, very fine, crosshatch pattern, satin finish, heavy thickness

Cape measurements
L - 8.9
W - 5.8
Distance between armholes - 1.9
Top of cape to armholes - R: 1.6, L: 1.55
Bottom of cape to armholes - R: 6.3, L: 6.3
Edge of cape to armholes - R: .8, L: 1



Outside of cape (Pattern is faint, and hard to capture on camera. The lines are broken, not continuous up & down like the horizontal patterns of the MITW capes.)


Inside of cape










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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:20 pm

Mail call today brought the lovely lady in the middle...



Light face apps, and a no zip cape (quadruple checked). She's posed next to HK 1 #2 on her right, who came with a zipping cape and has "standard" face apps, and #1 on the left with light face apps, who didn't.

@TheJabbaWookie Your smooth cape Leia's eyes look to match, where they appear almost translucent. I'm betting on your cape being early, and being legit.

Cape measurements
L - 8.3
W - 5.7
Distance between armholes - 1.9
Top of cape to armholes - R: 1.3, L:1.3
Bottom of cape to armholes - R: 6, L: 5.85
Edge of cape to armholes - R: 1, L: .9
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:33 am

Load of info here. A lot to process. I might have to start a spreadsheet LOL. Thanks for all the hard work.
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:19 am

I have been provided details of another Leia (41 or 48 bk awaiting confirmation) from David Schofield on Jabba’s Court. HK Coo With H directly below G. The details are as follows:

L: 84mm
W: 60mm
Distance from armholes to top: 18mm

The cape has the typical cross hatch pattern on one side and is smooth on the other with faint texture.








I’ve got some more to upload tomorrow hopefully.


Last edited by TheJabbaWookie on Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:29 pm

That's a great picture of the pattern. It was something I noticed, but didn't put in the info that there seem to be two variations of the texture that creates the zip sound, one crosshatch, and the other stippled. That cape looks to match up with the rest of the data for HK capes, except the Early Bird.

She looks to be black hair/belt, but I'm wondering about the eyes. There are black and brown eye variations. I'm betting on a HK COO high on her leg.
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:01 am

I have received two new Princess Leia Organas since my last post.
- One is a HK Coo with a cross hatch zip cape.
- The other is a No Coo with a cross hatch zip cape.

The funny thing is the cape on the No Coo figure (which was listed on eBay as a childhood figure) is the shorter variant (which I believe to be a HK variant). I am contacting the seller to see if I can determine if the shorter version is a 100% child hood figure cape as he claims or if the figure was original and the cape purchased at a later date or could have been mixed up with another variant he owned. I’ll let you know the outcome.

Meanwhile since I already have a HK Leia (that I purchased along time ago with what I believed to be a Repro cape), and have since purchased an original cape for it (which I believe to be the longer No Coo cape), I am going to take an educated guess and swap the two capes around.

Anyway I will post up the 4 Leias I now have in my next post.
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:51 am

Family I 1a
HONG KONG
L: 85mm
W: 56mm
Distance between armholes: 18mm
Distance from armhole to top: 17mm

Satin = Cross hatch pattern (makes zipping sound); glossy = fine textured pattern with horizontal lines









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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:19 pm

Family IV 2a
No Coo

L: 89mm
W: 59mm
Distance between holes: 20mm
Distance from holes to top: 18mm

Cross hatch pattern with zipping sound; textured side with vertical lined pattern











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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:40 pm

The shorter cape on the No COO matches the cape on my No COO, as well as being very close to the cape dimensions on the HK COO in the same family, that is with the stamp high on the leg.
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:34 pm

@Calrissian_Charm wrote:
The shorter cape on the No COO matches the cape on my No COO, as well as being very close to the cape dimensions on the HK COO in the same family, that is with the stamp high on the leg.
Yes perhaps the cape type matches the family type (as seen on Wolff's site) be it HONG KONG or No Coo. If this were the case the shorter length cape is not an indication of a Hong Kong cape per se, nor a longer length cape an indicator of no coo (as currently indicated on the TIG website). I would be interested to hear Bryan or AJ's viewpoint on this, or anyone with more experience on the different factories and the manufacturing process.
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PostSubject: Re: Princess Leia Organa Early Issue Cape Question   Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:22 pm

Family III 1b
HONG KONG

L: 84mm
W: 56mm
Distance between: 19mm
Distance to top: 17mm

Cross Hatch pattern with zipping noise; light textured side

url=https://servimg.com/view/19667828/176]
[/url]



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