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 Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS AHEAD -- CAUTION)

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PostSubject: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS AHEAD -- CAUTION)   Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:26 am

Okay,

For those of you who saw the movie already.. what did you think?

I've seen a TON of mixed reviews, even going so far as to say this was the worst film in the entire franchise.

I wish they had changed some things about the movie or the way some of the characters were handled, but they're going in a direction that introduces new aspects instead of rehashing old ones.

After TFA, people complained it was a remake of ANH.  

Now, once they've made changes, people are complaining it's not a remake of ESB, not enough callbacks, nostalgia.

I get that.. but the contradiction kills me.

Beside.. what's the point of seeing a new movie if it's going to be the same things we've seen already?

My main gripe is with Luke. Except the last scene which made everything come full circle. The feels!

Oh, and that Leia scene.  throw up

TLDR; I give it a 7.5/8 out of 10.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS AHEAD -- CAUTION)   Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:24 pm

I thought it was kind of boring and mediocre. Now I'm left wondering what the heck is the point of Episode 9? Without being able to bring Leia back since Carrie Fisher is deceased, I don't see how they can resolve the parent/child conflict of trying to bring Ben Solo back to the light. And with Snoke dead, and Luke (although he can always come back as a force ghost), I really don't see Ep 9 as anything more that "here we go dragging this out for one more movie".

I was hoping this movie would answer a bunch of questions, but it didn't. I still have no idea who Snoke is. Where was he all these years during the Prequels and OTC? How did he make the First Order? How did he find Ben Solo and seduce him? What the heck?!!! No explanations and now he is dead.

So between TFA and TLJ, the First Order now control the whole galaxy? Wow, that was fast... or just dumb story telling.

Who are Rey's parents? Was Kylo Ren telling the truth or just pushing her buttons? I thought we would get something better than that.

THE WORST PART OF IT IS, YOU ARE TRYING TO TELL ME LUKE SENSED THE DARK SIDE IN A TEENAGER AND WAS GOING TO KILL HIM IN HIS SLEEP AND THAT SET THE WHOLE THING OFF? Are you kidding me? Luke nearly died resisting the dark side to save Anakin/Vader, you think he would have tried something with Ben Solo. Mark Hamill was right, the producers do not understand the character of Luke Skywalker.

The action was kind of tame and weak compared to other Star Wars movies. The lightsaber fights were boring and slow. The space battles were average. The movie was dragging for a long time. And I don't need to be spoon fed "hope". When George Lucas made the movies, the moral undertones and principles were built into the story. Here, the creators had to spoon it down our throats at the end.

The humor was too slapstick and outright blatant for a Star Wars Trilogy. Maybe for the "... A Star Wars Story" movies it's ok, but the whole beginning with Poe and Hux wouldn't fly in the OTC. George's humor was subtle and classy... that's why Han and Lando kick so much ass as characters.

I hated TFA. Killing Han like that was crap. This movie was just kind of a boring step up. If I was a kid today, I doubt these movies would leave a lasting impression on me like the OTC did. I can't say TLJ would have made me go out and ask my parents for all the toys.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS AHEAD -- CAUTION)   Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:38 pm

I think it was fantastic. People say it doesn't "feel" like a Star Wars movie, but that's silly. It doesn't feel like George Lucas movie. Or an Irvin Kershner movie, or a Richard Marquand movie, either. None of the original trilogy films are quite syncopated the way people today tend to see them. Time has done that in the minds of the viewers. Of course the prequels have that consistency because they were directed by the same person. So, scratch that particular silliness. Given time, these films will feel as much a part of the saga as any of them. This is a Star Wars movie. And Rian Johnson has made the most beautiful of all the Star Wars films. He has an eye for the iconic, in some ways not unlike Steven Spielberg. It is just gorgeous scene after gorgeous scene. He also, deftly, weaves the simultaneous plots together so tightly that I barely noticed the time going by. But, then, that's where my criticism comes in.

There is simply too much story to tell. Even though it never feels overwhelming, I found that certain elements were not given their due, specifically, and once again, Luke Skywalker. In the OT he does so much growing off camera because the stories are told in such narrow timeframes, that it was always hard for me to latch onto him as a hero, because he never seemed that heroic in his emotional growth. I latched onto Han more, because his character makes a more visible and obvious transformation. Here again we have Luke being emotionally short-changed. He spends so much time rejecting Rey, that by the time he "turns" he gets about 10 minutes of screen time for his big reveal. It lacked emotional power. Kylo's telling was much more punchy. So, I hope there's a director's cut with extended Luke scenes. He not done. He will certainly be a Force ghost in the next film, because he still has a lot of questions to answer.

The other thing that I think will most obviously stand out to everyone, and draw some clear lines in the sands of fandom, is Leia's "Hail Mary" (works on numerous levels  Laughing ). I forgive it, but it's a stretch. A long stretch. I am supposing that it will be pointed out that Anakin looked like a batch of overcooked nachos, and he survived, through the Force, we assume, but Leia is not Force adept, that we know of. Even with her bloodline, being untrained makes this a real stretch. But, then, they have one more film to... Shit... No, they don't.  Crying or Very sad

But there is so much that is so fucking awesome! Admiral Holdo's brilliant jump to light speed, Rey and Ben's battle with the Praetorian Guards, the Falcon flying through the caverns of Crait, Poe's attack on the Dreadnaught, The Phasma/Finn fight was too short, but awesome just the same. And when R2 played Leia's original message, I got tears. No shame, I cried a little. Finally, the fact that Rey's parents are nobodies. That is my favorite part of all. Why should she be related to anyone we already know? It takes a lot of weight of the character to be who she needs to be.

This movie is outstanding. Even where it slips, it doesn't slide so far that I really care that much. I'm anxious to see it again. And again. And again.

I know that there will be people who disagree, and frankly, I'm not interested in arguing. I think attitude has a lot to do with how this film is received. Non Star Wars nerds are going to love the shit out of this movie. Star Wars nerds will be torn in a war of words about how in "my day" the movies were greater than the Beatles, Jesus, and John Wayne combined, even though they were released to lukewarm reviews in spite of the huge box office receipts. And nostalgia will play a big role in how people view this. Don't like TFA? You'll probably think this sucks too. Me, I love TFA. There was nothing in that movie for me not to like, and I love TLJ. Again, nothing for me not to love. And, at the end of the day, it's a great film, Star Wars or not, it's a great film.

I am so looking for to Rian Johnson's trilogy.

I'd like to hear from anyone with a divergent opinion on the two films... Love TFA/Hate TLJ or Hate TFA/Love TLJ
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS AHEAD -- CAUTION)   Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:13 pm

I saw it twice. It was a great story. It paid homage to previous episodes, which is important to me. The interaction between Luke and Rey was similar to that of Luke and Yoda in ESB. Deltoro's character was similar to Lando in ESB. By the way, I think he is a "good guy." He will fund the rebels in the next episode with the money from the First Order. Luke's death scene was reminiscent of the two suns setting in ANH. The final battle was reminiscent of Hoth. The interaction between Snoke and Rey was reminiscent of that between Luke and the Emperor in ROTJ. I'm sure there were others instances of paying homage that I have missed. In my opinion the critique of the misplaced or overused campy humor or dialogue is open for debate, but I remember the same in the original trilogy. This movie felt like Star Wars to me. It didn't seem out of place. I thought the story line was strong. It was dark, like ESB and Rogue One's story lines. There are some awesome scenes in this episode as well. See it again if you didn't like it the first time. I was on the fence the first time. After seeing it again, there is no doubt that this is a great Star Wars episode.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS AHEAD -- CAUTION)   Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:28 pm

@Calrissian_Charm wrote:
And nostalgia will play a big role in how people view this.

That's it, an important argument. I was born in 1972 and to be honest, i prefer older movies from 1965 to 1985, not only star wars but all the movies i saw during my childhood. My first movie in a cinema theater was the empire strikes back ( what a coincidence What a Face ) the resent that we have as a child forges a part of what we will like or not later. Episodes 7 and 8 are not bad but i can't see them the same way as a kid.

You said Nostalgia and you're right

A second point, in the seventies Lucas created amazing effects and a surprising universe. Today his universe is well known and technologie makes everything possible. Hard to be surprised then
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS AHEAD -- CAUTION)   Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:49 am

@beachboy19 wrote:
I thought it was kind of boring and mediocre.  Now I'm left wondering what the heck is the point of Episode 9?  Without being able to bring Leia back since Carrie Fisher is deceased, I don't see how they can resolve the parent/child conflict of trying to bring Ben Solo back to the light.  And with Snoke dead, and Luke (although he can always come back as a force ghost), I really don't see Ep 9 as anything more that "here we go dragging this out for one more movie".

I was hoping this movie would answer a bunch of questions, but it didn't.  I still have no idea who Snoke is.  Where was he all these years during the Prequels and OTC?  How did he make the First Order?  How did he find Ben Solo and seduce him?  What the heck?!!!  No explanations and now he is dead.

So between TFA and TLJ, the First Order now control the whole galaxy?  Wow, that was fast... or just dumb story telling.

Who are Rey's parents?  Was Kylo Ren telling the truth or just pushing her buttons?  I thought we would get something better than that.

THE WORST PART OF IT IS, YOU ARE TRYING TO TELL ME LUKE SENSED THE DARK SIDE IN A TEENAGER AND WAS GOING TO KILL HIM IN HIS SLEEP AND THAT SET THE WHOLE THING OFF?  Are you kidding me?  Luke nearly died resisting the dark side to save Anakin/Vader, you think he would have tried something with Ben Solo.  Mark Hamill was right, the producers do not understand the character of Luke Skywalker.

The action was kind of tame and weak compared to other Star Wars movies.  The lightsaber fights were boring and slow.  The space battles were average.  The movie was dragging for a long time.  And I don't need to be spoon fed "hope".  When George Lucas made the movies, the moral undertones and principles were built into the story.  Here, the creators had to spoon it down our throats at the end.

The humor was too slapstick and outright blatant for a Star Wars Trilogy.  Maybe for the "... A Star Wars Story" movies it's ok, but the whole beginning with Poe and Hux wouldn't fly in the OTC.  George's humor was subtle and classy... that's why Han and Lando kick so much ass as characters.

I hated TFA.  Killing Han like that was crap.  This movie was just kind of a boring step up.  If I was a kid today, I doubt these movies would leave a lasting impression on me like the OTC did.  I can't say TLJ would have made me go out and ask my parents for all the toys.

Have you seen the movie more than once? There is a lot to unpack, I highly recommend seeing the film again. I thought the movie was great. Are there some things I didn't like, or thought could have been made better, sure... but the same could be said about the OT.

As for Rey's parents: What would be better...? To me, that took a great turn... Ever since the TFA there has been speculation on who Rey's parents are... is it Kenobi's grand-daughter, is it Ren's sister? I never once heard anyone speculate about her parents being nobody's, and really, who cares who her parents are? The fact that they're "nobody's" says to me that anyone, from anywhere, can amount to something revolutionary. You don't need a birth-right to have a place in the story and that notion, combined with the slave boy at the end who's playing with the Luke Skywalker doll really ties that concept together.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS AHEAD -- CAUTION)   Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:03 am

@Mike_Z wrote:


Have you seen the movie more than once? There is a lot to unpack, I highly recommend seeing the film again. I thought the movie was great. Are there some things I didn't like, or thought could have been made better, sure... but the same could be said about the OT.


True. I'm looking forward to seeing it again in normal 2D. I watched it in 4D which was both insanely cool and silly at the same time.
TLJ didn't instantly wow me like TFA and Rogue One did, but overall I enjoyed it, and the look and sound of it was superb. Peed off that they killed Snoke though, and in such a sloppy way. Would have liked his charcter to develop more in the series. At least he lasted two films unlike poor Darth Maul
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS AHEAD -- CAUTION)   Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:31 am

I do enjoy seeing Kylo Renn's little temper tantrums as, before the prequels were made, it's the way I'd always imagined Anakin would of have behaved when he was a teenager.
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PostSubject: What should have been   Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:34 am

Aww... I feel devastated after watching the movie. I would have filmed something related to the many excellent novels, Luke and Mara Jade for example... Disney has done an awful job in my humble opinion (except Rogue One, that´s superb)
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS AHEAD -- CAUTION)   Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:44 am

@Fito wrote:
Aww... I feel devastated after watching the movie. I would have filmed something related to the many excellent  novels, Luke and Mara Jade for example... Disney has done an awful job in my humble opinion (except Rogue One, that´s superb)

If you loved Rogue One, watch Disney's Star Wars Rebels and wait for the bomb to drop. affraid
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS AHEAD -- CAUTION)   Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:33 pm

Refrained from watching this until it was released on Blu-ray. I sat down and watched it yesterday and tried to go in with an open mind. I of course had read reviews and opinions on the movie and had also been told the major plot points so those weren't surprising to me at all.

I think it wasn't prequel terrible, but it wasn't original trilogy good either. Kind of middle ground for me. The movie was entertaining in that it had action and some star wars mythos to it, but there were aspects I absolutely despised also.

The Luke milking whatever that was and drinking it and spilling it all in his beard for the shear gross factor was an unneeded scene.

The Carrie Fisher pulling herself back in from space after being unconscious (and presumably dead in the cold vacuum of space) was so over the top crazy it was easily the worst scene in the movie.

I said before with force awakens that the fit throwing/ temper tantrums of characters is not a character aspect that is needed; and it shows in this movie also. Luke brooding and pouting over his failure with Kylo, and Kylo tearing up the mask (which is badly needed because that actors nose is a mile long and should be hidden) are ridiculous traits to emphasize in the movie since these are supposed to be masters of sith and jedi abilities and above such pettiness.

I do like the character development of Rey and liked the similarities I see in these characters and the ot characters. Poe and bb8 share a friendship like hand and chewie and the Poe and Rey connection being similar to Leia and han was nice to see it a bit. I hope that is the direction that those characters go as a love story has been an integral part of every trilogy thus far and it should help endear those characters.

I will end by saying I didn't hate the movie, but didn't love it either. I saw in another thread about the movie that someone said this was the star wars movies for a new generation and it isnt meant to replace the ot for us who grew up with that, but rather be a "new original trilogy" to a new bunch of kids. I can understand that. For us the ot is our star wars but for new fans this one is theirs.

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS AHEAD -- CAUTION)   Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:24 pm

I watched it opening weekend and the thing I noticed waiting in line, was that the people coming out of the theater all had these dead pan expressions on their face. I had a sinking feeling then as I took my seat, and began sinking further into my seat as the movie played out. I know there are people who enjoy this film and I am not trying to take anything away from them. Its just for me, this was a disaster.
The opening scene just didn't have a Star Wars feel and dropping a Yo Momma joke did not help. So many people were audibly dumbfounded as I heard a wave of "Seriously"? It just seemed from begging to end, that the movie did not know what it wanted to be tone wise. I also found it striking that for all of the hype of practical effects for TFA, this one seemed to delve back into CGI heavy territory. And it looked really bad at times.
The Space Leia scene, Canto Bite, Holdo, Maz Kanata jetpacking, "Lets go chrome dome", and Lukes Character, were all aspects of the film that really bothered me, among many others. I didnt care about Snokes backstory or who Reys parents were, and I wasn't disappointed because it didn't live up to my own "Head Cannon". I went in really looking forward to it, but it was just disastrous. From the editing to character development, or lack there of.
I will say that I did re watch it a couple of nights ago, and it didn't bother me as much the second time around, but I think that is because the shock of all the bad humor and story progression had already sunk in. I was never too big on the prequels, but this movie gave me a whole new appreciation for those. I wanted a movie to progress the story and try new things, and to TLJ credit, it did try new things. But for me they just fell flat, and honestly I think I will just stick with episodes 1-6 from here out. Just my two cents.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS AHEAD -- CAUTION)   Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:51 am

Got to say that I've found the Guardians Of The Galaxy movies far more entertaining & visually interesting than any of the recent Star Wars offerings.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS AHEAD -- CAUTION)   Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:22 am

Buying Last Jedi, and checked Rotten Tomatoes, Critics: 91%, Audience: 47%. I remember The Empire Strikes Back was similar in that the critics responded more positively than the audience, but now many fans believe that ESB is the best of that trilogy. Fans that are dissatisfied with Last Jedi now, could love it in the future.
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