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 Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread

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Joe_O
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PostSubject: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeTue May 04, 2010 9:32 am

We thought it would be a good idea to start up a questions & answers/general discussion thread for carded figures, as there are a few people missing those final few figures of their loose runs that might well get into carded soon it should be a good reference to help them with any questions they might have when they start going after MOC and I am sure there are even seasoned collectors here that will be able to learn something new as well !

Firstly, due to many fakes and scammers here are some good tips for spotting reseals and of course info on how to learn of the methods used in production of carded figures.

Cardbacks :

A good way to get an idea of the cardstock and feel of Vintage cards and also a cheap way to get some hands on experience is by buying a few cardbacks! The ability to compare an original with a fake can be priceless and by having a few cardbacks laying around you can do that very easily (cardbacks can be had for $1-5 max if its nothing special!)

Modern reproductions often have a different feel and as they are mainly home made and printed from regular printers so its easy to note the differences when a fake card is in hand, however there are a few people that go the extra mile and will go to almost factory production measures to ensure their cards are almost identical- have no fear, nothing on the market is 100% yet and I hope it remains that way for a long time (if not forever!)

Bubbles :

Well, bubbles vary a LOT from country to country and indeed from wave to wave, Kenner SW figures to ESB and ROTJ to POTF so it is a bit harder to get accustomed to them and their differences initially but remember no knowledge is gained overnight and even after many years we all learn something new!

There are some great references out there and many people with the information in their head to seek answers from but for now I thought I would just briefly put out an article which covers "Trilogo" bubble differences. This was put together by Stephane Faucourt who incidentally wrote the book "From Meccano To Trilogo"


Trilogo SWCA Feature

The production process :

It's important to understand the process of sealing a figure in a bubble on to a card, Kenner used a process of heat and force to keep the bubble on the card and many cards exhibit wrinkles or lines on the back of the card which indicates the force used, these are sometimes referred to as the "Kenner Crease" and although it is a slight flaw, it is also a good indication of originality.

You may have heard of the "waffle pattern" this is something that many Kenner bubbles exhibit, it is a kind of cross hatch pattern that is on the plastic edge of the bubble, visible when examined closely. Those that repro bubbles for figures were unable to replicate this 100% for the longest time and as such it served as a great tool for checking for authenticity, however in recent years there are a few people getting close or in fact already replicating these very well.
Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread Waffle10

You can clearly see the waffle pattern in the picture above, there are some exceptions of Kenner not using the waffle pattern, some early Star Wars cards can be found without it I believe, also important to note, the waffle pattern is not present on many foreign to Kenner MOC figures (Trilogos in particular)

Here is a great video showing the Palitoy factory production line in England, there is a short clip showing the figures being placed in bubbles and then being sealed to the card! Thanks for the link Shawn!

THIS THREAD WILL BE UPDATED AS AND WHEN IMPORTANT INFORMATION IS BROUGHT UP - STAY TUNED AND FEEL FREE TO POST AND DISCUSS ANY ISSUES REGARDING MOC HERE !

Previous MOC Discussion/threads here -

Just a few threads on TIG that may help answer someones questions or raise some more discussion Smile Feel free to bump any topic listed here if you have a relevant question or some information for any of these threads. I will update this thread every few months as more discussions come up about all things MOC Very Happy

Update January 2011:


Last edited by Joe_O on Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:04 pm; edited 6 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeTue May 04, 2010 9:41 am

Awesome thread Joe and i hope people will be able to add even more great info Smile

That Palitoy Factory Video is amazing i would have loved to have been there!!

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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeTue May 04, 2010 10:22 am

Great thread Joe! And some really great info!

Hopefully we'll be able to add more to this as time goes on! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeTue May 04, 2010 10:40 am

Joe - That video is awesome. It actually surpised me , the amount of manual work that was involved.

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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeTue May 04, 2010 11:03 am

I have to agree with the others. Even if it was short, that video was cool. At least we now know that the figures were actually touched before packaging. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeTue May 04, 2010 11:19 am

This is a cool thread.The video was kik ass.

We need more nostalgic stuff like this.Pic's and vid's of this stuff is what makes these thread's interesting.

Great work Joe.

Dan.
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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeTue May 04, 2010 11:26 am

I had to watch the video again everytime i see one of these vid's and i see the little kid picking up a vintage moc figure of the rack it makes me think about making a time machine.

I wish i could go back back.

These toy's were the best made ever.and now that i'm an adult i can afford to buy this stuff.

I wish i had the money i have now back then.i'd be loaded with stuff 20 times more.Yikes i'd need 10,000 square feet of storage.

Fk i can't stop buying this stuff i think i have an addiction gone possibly out of control.

I might have to go to the Betty Ford clinic for addiction. great who's going to come visit me.

Dan. cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeTue May 04, 2010 11:31 am

If anyone can help - I am looking to add to this guide by collating MOC bubble pictures and seals from all foreign released figures.

I would need a macro shot of the seal and a clear picture of the bubble !

You can contact me here through PM if need be and I can work on the pictures to make sure they are all in the same format Smile

Looking forward to your help!
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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeTue May 04, 2010 11:34 am

I was reading my Meccano to Trilogo book last night and discovered that the Meccano factory (or at least the distribution center) was located close to Belgium. The book stated they would send out all the Palitoy stuff from that location. I wonder if it's still there.
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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeTue May 04, 2010 1:50 pm

Quality post Joe and an excellent idea!

I might add a close-up of the bubble on all my MOC in my post to help any new Luke Jedi hunters!

Any tips on using the macro function?
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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeTue May 04, 2010 2:04 pm

@Joe_O wrote:
If anyone can help - I am looking to add to this guide by collating MOC bubble pictures and seals from all foreign released figures.

I would need a macro shot of the seal and a clear picture of the bubble !

You can contact me here through PM if need be and I can work on the pictures to make sure they are all in the same format Smile

Looking forward to your help!

Joe - I know I promised some so I'll get them up ASAP

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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeTue May 04, 2010 2:29 pm

Fantastic thread and what a great video.....if you could only go back in time.....one to store away for the future and one to play with ..... if only
Hope someone finds a part 2 of the video
cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeTue May 04, 2010 2:44 pm

I'll try to do a post per Cardback

Italy - Harbert - 12 Back

Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread DSC036301

Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread DSC036291

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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeTue May 04, 2010 2:47 pm

Thanks John, when I get a bit of time later and when you have finished the figures you can help out with I will edit them and move the images up to the top post if thats ok, should be able to create a thumbnail gallery from your shots Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeTue May 04, 2010 2:49 pm

Dartberizing.............what a stunning card cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeTue May 04, 2010 2:58 pm

Netherlands - Clipper - 45 Back

Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread DSC03632

Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread DSC036401

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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeTue May 04, 2010 4:33 pm

Nice clipper Jon.

It's so pretty.

MOC are nice.

How much did that set you back?

Dan.
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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeTue May 04, 2010 6:56 pm

@vintageSWfan wrote:
Nice clipper Jon.

It's so pretty.

MOC are nice.

How much did that set you back?

Dan.

Dan I'll give my usual answer.......enough Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 28, 2010 6:34 pm

Let's give this excellent thread a well deserved bump.

Any new information, questions or discussion, please feel free to add! Very Happy

:bump:
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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 12, 2010 1:40 am

After collecting modern Star Wars for years, I've decided to start collecting Vintage items. I was wondering if anyone know of a good resource to determine which card back variations are the hardest to find. For instance, when looking at Empire Vaders, which is the rarest card back? Any help would be great.

DarthTad
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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 12, 2010 6:30 am

@DarthTad wrote:
After collecting modern Star Wars for years, I've decided to start collecting Vintage items. I was wondering if anyone know of a good resource to determine which card back variations are the hardest to find. For instance, when looking at Empire Vaders, which is the rarest card back? Any help would be great.

DarthTad

Hi Buddy and welcome to TIG

It can take years of research to understand all the different card back variations when it comes to MOC collecting for example a certain figure on let’s say a ROTJ Kenner 48 back maybe relatively easy to find within a few months but another figure on the same ROTJ Kenner 48 back might only exist in 1 or 2 examples if not at all!

Another example is Palitoy 65 Snowtrooper MOC are pretty common you can buy one at any time without waiting and a mint example will cost less than 60GBP. Yet a Kenner 65Back Snowtrooper MOC is much harder to find and up until a few years back was thought not to exist now approx 6 - 10 examples have been confirmed but that’s still a much lower number than the Palitoy equivalent.

Some key starting points decide if you are going to look at Kenner (USA) Cards then the Kellerman book is a must have!

If you are looking at UK MOC's i.e. Palitoy there are some great websites to help with your research?

Are you going to buy graded examples (a cost premium in most cases will be attached if you collect this way)

It’s also worth deciding what level of condition is acceptable e.g. creases, clear bubbles, yellow bubbles, POP intact, POP removed etc etc. I would advised against Reseals yes they will be cheaper by a long way but that’s because they are not classed as MOC and unless it’s a rare item then the price will be more in line with a loose figure and card back.

Remember it’s a long journey MOC collecting even after 5 - 10 years you will still be learning all the time find MOC's you like the look of that fall into your budget and start from there Smile

If you have any questions just ask here this forum has many MOC collectors with tons and tons of experience who will be happy to help you along the way Smile

Cheers Jay



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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 12, 2010 11:16 am

Thanks, jaymassive! What are the sites for Palitoy that you are referring to?

I only have a few MOC so far, and I'm really having a blast! I'm looking forward to getting to know some of you all as I get more and more involved in the vintage scene.

DarthTad Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 12, 2010 12:25 pm

Hi DarthTad and welcome to TIG Smile

Here's a good Palitoy Card site:

http://www.palitoy.org/cardback/palitoy.html

all best

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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 12, 2010 2:00 pm

@DarthTad wrote:
Thanks, jaymassive! What are the sites for Palitoy that you are referring to?

I only have a few MOC so far, and I'm really having a blast! I'm looking forward to getting to know some of you all as I get more and more involved in the vintage scene.

DarthTad Very Happy

First of all, welcome to TIG DarthTad! Very Happy

Here's another very good Palitoy site. It's actually an updated version to the other Palitoy Artoo_Detour listed above me. It's done by our own Mr_Palitoy

Mr_Palitoy's Site

And like Jay said above, there's a lot of research that goes into MOC collecting. It's a very cool and diverse side of vintage Star Wars collecting in general. If you ever have any questions don't be afraid to ask! We are all here to help and learn.
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PostSubject: Re: Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread   Vintage MOC Collecting : The Discussion And Information Thread I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 25, 2010 8:12 am

Hi guys, I have limited knowledge about moc and have just purchased my first - ROTJ Luke XWFP with 'figure made in China' stamped on reverse.

I have a fair few loose variations of Luke XWFP including a raised bar China - if you look through the side of the bubble you can clearly see the raised bar.

I've read that Hong Kong is most common coo, followed by China/Taiwan/Macau. Is my Luke moc quite common/rare
in the grand scheme of things?

Also, I've heard reference to other moc saying 'made in mexico' version etc - is this applicable with mine but 'made in China'?

Thanks for any enlightenment on this Smile

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