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 Rancor Keeper Variations

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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: Rancor Keeper Variations    Rancor Keeper Variations  - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 14, 2010 5:08 pm

Thanks for the offer Jason!

I sent a PM to Paul, he can have the first choice.

I have already been spoilt with new LL figures enough this month. Very Happy

Cheers,

Marco
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aussiejames
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PostSubject: Re: Rancor Keeper Variations    Rancor Keeper Variations  - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 14, 2010 5:18 pm

Keep in mind there is an 'A' and a backwards '4'
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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: Rancor Keeper Variations    Rancor Keeper Variations  - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 19, 2011 9:43 am

You guys remember this thread? In the end it appeared that a no COO Rancor Keeper sold to me as Ledy was not a Ledy at all. I am talking about the Rancor Keeper in the middle (pic below).

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Main conclusions at that time:
  • The staff was darker grey than the 'normal' Taiwan version but still a Ledy staff should be darker
  • The hood was made of hard and darker grey plastic compared to the Taiwan version (soft hood), but still the Ledy hood should be darker.
  • The skin was too pale to be a Ledy and should be more apricot like.


This was a good learning experience to me, as it turned out it can be quite tricky to collect and buy Ledy figures. Actually it motivated me to start another thread a few months later with side by side pics of Kenner and Ledy figures sharing the same COO and/or date stamp.

Why I am telling you all this? This week I received two Ledy Rancor Keepers (the ones flanking their no COO brother in the pic). On close examination they indeed differ from the Kenner no COO version in a few ways. Apart from a different skin tone there is another unique trait which the Ledy figures share, and which makes it easy to distinguish them. I will discuss this in the tough to ID Lili Ledy thread at a later moment.


Rancor Keeper Variations  - Page 2 Fat_boy_slim_-_youve_come_a

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frunkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Rancor Keeper Variations    Rancor Keeper Variations  - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2011 7:16 am

Makes for some interesting reading, may I ask what you guys think of this one I just picked up as seems like you are the local Rancor Keeper experts

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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: Rancor Keeper Variations    Rancor Keeper Variations  - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2011 10:54 am



I think this is a case of discolouration. Some pigments in the paint degraded faster than others in the course of time, giving rise to the observed colour changes.

The green limbs Chewie, the green snake Yoda, are similar cases.


Threads discussing discolouration in more depth:

https://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t3134-boba-fett-loose-variant-in-depth-discussion-about-discoloration-and-yellowing?highlight=boba+fett

https://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t3187-green-limb-chewbacca-variation-or-degredation?highlight=green


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frunkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Rancor Keeper Variations    Rancor Keeper Variations  - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2011 11:12 am

I can appreciate what you are saying but do not believe this is the case with this figure as I am familiar with discolouration issues like the green limb chewie, the green snake yoda is a know genuine variant though & not just a discolouration issue, this I do know as I bought a green snake yoda myself as a child in the early 80's.

The colouration of the pants (not the legs) is an exact colour match with the arm bands & wrist supports, which are the same colouration as on the standard RC, otherwise I may have agreed with the assessment of the members here.


If someone could show me a further example of a RC that has become discoloured like this I may be more willing to accept that this is the case, but as stated, I do not think it is.
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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: Rancor Keeper Variations    Rancor Keeper Variations  - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2011 11:40 am

First of all, welcome aboard.

Good point, the colour of the pants/skirt indeed seem to match the arm bands & wrist armour.
  • Coincidende?
  • Wrong paint application by a Taiwanese trainee on the mondaymorning after the rough weekend before ?
  • Custom job?
  • Discolouration anyway?


Difficult to tell it is, Master Yoda would say. Very Happy

On the green snake.....there is much controversy about this item.

http://forum.rebelscum.com/showthread.php?1067696-Green-Snake-Yoda


@Dr Dengar wrote:
My 5 cents:

Some paint colours are produced by a combination of different pigments: green (yelow+blue), orange (red+yellow), purple (red+blue). .Each pigment within a paint has a different vulnerability towards chemical degradation and degradation by UV/visible light (photobleaching).

So during time, the absolute and relative amounts of the pigments in a paint will change, causing:
  • a less intense colour (fading)
  • a different colour


This little theory is not the absolute truth, but at least it can explain a lot of the observed colour changes within figures. That's why I like to stick to it unless someone comes with a better theory. Very Happy
  • green (=yellow + blue) to blue (Prune Face limbs): yellow fades away, blue remains.
  • orange (=red + yellow) to yellow (Boba Fett patches): red fades away, yellow remains
  • brown (= red + yellow + blue) to green (Chewbacca limbs, Yoda snake): red fades away, yellow + blue = green remains : GREEN LIMBS + GREEN SNAKE
  • dark blue to light blue (Boba Fett limbs): blue fades away
  • .... and many other examples, I am sure







@Dr Dengar wrote:
Green limbs Chewie, Green snake Yoda, Blue pants Prune Face, etc. never left the factory 30 years ago with their current appearings. Nowadays they might have a different look compared to their counterparts which did not discolour, but that doesn't make them 'factory made variants' IMO. Off course, still they might be worth collecting to get some variation - no let's use a different word - change in your collections.

If these figures are variations you have to be consequent, and consider a yellowed Stormtrooper a variation as well. Very Happy



The missing link
Rancor Keeper Variations  - Page 2 Yodabrowntogreen2

Another green brown snake, representing the repeating cycle of coloured variants discussions. Very Happy
Rancor Keeper Variations  - Page 2 OuroborosStarWars


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pomse2001
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PostSubject: Re: Rancor Keeper Variations    Rancor Keeper Variations  - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2011 4:01 pm

Hi Marco thanks for all the information again Shocked
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frunkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Rancor Keeper Variations    Rancor Keeper Variations  - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2011 5:44 pm

May I thank you for the welcome & your constructive input Dr.Dengar Wink

I would err toward - Wrong paint application by a Taiwanese trainee on the mondaymorning after the rough weekend before ? :clap:

Here is a photo of it side by side next to my other Taiwan variant, the other one is mint & has the shiny finish.

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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: Rancor Keeper Variations    Rancor Keeper Variations  - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 01, 2011 2:18 am

You are very welcome! Very Happy

Pity, there is no conclusive answer yet.

Maybe it is even a combination of discolouration (the pants from green to grey-blue) and a wrong paint application (the belt area, blue-green instead of purple).

If you like, please introduce yourself in the introduction thread, so we can get to know you a little bit better.

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PostSubject: Re: Rancor Keeper Variations    Rancor Keeper Variations  - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 01, 2011 5:44 am

Hi fraunkstar, that is some cool colors that rancor keeper have Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Rancor Keeper Variations    Rancor Keeper Variations  - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04, 2011 6:29 pm

Thanks for the encouragement guys.

I have done a few more close ups of the figure & included them for what use it may be, I have also had a very close look at the figure again & am almost certain that the legs are un painted as the colouration is the same inside the peg holes which would rule out sund fading, the grey legs are also to uniform (IMO&E) to be discolouration/degradation as I have never seen another RC go this colour from either - please show me if you know different.

Also the wrist bands/arm bands & "nappy" are the same colour not different as with the standard figure all these parts are painted as they all show signs of paint wear/rub, the boots however are a darker green that the other painted parts.

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I will indeed add my distinctiveness to the hive/make an introduction in the relevant section soon as I get a mo

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EDIT by Dr Dengar on Oct 12th 2011: it seemed to be a custom paint job in the end.

Taken from this thread discussing the same Rancor Keeper figure:
https://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t3356-never-seen-this-variant-b4-anyone-else-seen-it

@frunkstar wrote:
Wow! a lot of replies in the last 12 hours guys, I thank you for getting back to me regarding the RC & my concerns over your apparent frustration over what I thought to be just an easy going thread about something not overly important, but interesting all the same, hence my posting it, & its good to see we are communicating on a better level & can understand where you were coming from just was not convinced, now from all the reading I have done in the last 24hrs I would also conclude that the "Occums Razor" principal is more than likely the answer, it just seems so odd that the colouration is so 100% uniform & I have in all my years of collecting never seen such a curious form of discolouration, I must admit I would fall more in to the thinking of the possibility of a paint strip & re paint as Chris has brought up, but I have had a really good look at the figure & if indeed it has had a re paint its been done well, as I used to paint D&D miniatures & the paint job is most convincing, I think the paintbrush marks you (Chris) refereed to are actually scratched marks in the foot of the figure if you look very closely at the photo it is quite deeply gouged with the grey of the legs as said viable through the paint of the boots, there is some pimpling/bubbling on the feet as well but nothing I have not seen b4 on a figure that if factory painted.

I have had a member on another UK board I use suggest that I try to get the figure under a black light & see if it shows us any more tell tale signs, I will take photos when I do if anything shows & post findings.

Chemical fading is another option that maybe the culprit as has been stated in the post.

I just want it know I did not post in the assumption that this a first shot or proto etc & I could maybe have used an alternative definition to variant, but it seems the correct wording at time of posting.

It would however be nice to know how this figure ended up the way he did.

I have listened to the points which all of you have raised & greatly appreciate all of your input & have learned new things to consider when looking at variations on figures in the future so IMO the post has though a little miss directed, been both informative & interesting, which is if I am not mistaken what we are all here for - to learn new things & consider all possibility's.

Chris - not all figures are painted in the peg holes, some more than others but also a good point worth consideration, not something everyone would think of looking at.




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