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 Real or fake ?

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Joe_O
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 22, 2010 12:55 pm

Woahhhh , I have said about 100 times I believe you visited and I believe lots of kids visited! Why are you treating me like I am posting things you can't see??

Nobody has any issue with Adolfo or his collection or his memories and we are glad he is posting here, we just want to get to the bottom of these frankenstein figures thats all! And who better to ask than the guy that told the story ? I can't ask anyone else because this is the first I have heard about these particular figures.. I have done my asking around with some very knowledgeable people who all thought the same as me, and I will take my questions to the big names in Mexican collecting as one person told me to do (to get the same answer that he gave me which is these are just junk figures made outside of the factory)

My opinion will always be that these figures were made by kids/dealers/collectors who got overstock, I have spoken to someone today that actually bought one from a Mexican dealer as a Frankenstein overstock piece and he said it cost him no more than $10 and he knew well ahead of buying it that the dealer built it himself, not a factory worker.

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merlin
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 22, 2010 1:22 pm

@Joe_O wrote:
Woahhhh , I have said about 100 times I believe you visited and I believe lots of kids visited! Why are you treating me like I am posting things you can't see??

Nobody has any issue with Adolfo or his collection or his memories and we are glad he is posting here, we just want to get to the bottom of these frankenstein figures thats all! And who better to ask than the guy that told the story ? I can't ask anyone else because this is the first I have heard about these particular figures.. I have done my asking around with some very knowledgeable people who all thought the same as me, and I will take my questions to the big names in Mexican collecting as one person told me to do (to get the same answer that he gave me which is these are just junk figures made outside of the factory)

My opinion will always be that these figures were made by kids/dealers/collectors who got overstock, I have spoken to someone today that actually bought one from a Mexican dealer as a Frankenstein overstock piece and he said it cost him no more than $10 and he knew well ahead of buying it that the dealer built it himself, not a factory worker.


Joe..... yes you are right!!! everything else has been set!!!! .....

We are talking about this ( FRANK) figures .... i think In sum...

YES, they were guided tours to the Ledy figures...
YES ,Everybody can have issues with thier Memories
YES, YOU AND WOLFF DOESN¨T UNDERSTAND CERTAIN THINGS THAT FOR YOU ,THEY DON¨T MAKE ANY SENSE...

Wolfffff.... you talked about Argentina and Brazil , lol! do you remember what was happening during those years.... military coup de etait in both countries.... Falkland war with england..... both states converted into a not allied countries to US!!
come on people .... SET YOUR MINDS IN THE EARLY 80´s..... Like I told you before .....is almost impossible to talk about something that you didn´t live, or you were not born yet!!!

Wolfff ..I have plenty of german friends that live here in cancun, is funny , because their cultural shock is amazing with our way of thinking and doing things...
You wrote....
3. There is no way of trying to test the market with these figures! They got the licence from kenner....so no frankensteins can be produced...EVER! This is simply not possible and also never happend!

Now , I´m also glad that you accept there were poor quality control... because at the begining of this thread, i had to explain it several times, but it was hard for everybody to understand it!!!

like I said before ... Not because you haven´t seen it, it doesn´t mean it doesn´t exist....
I have seen this figures ( not quite like this one !) ...but as I said before...instead of writing things you don´t know ....go to some mexican SW forums and look for Arturo Soler collection.... you will be amazed...
make yourself this questions???? ......
Do I lived in mexico ?
Do I lived in mexico during the early 80´s
How many people I know that are ledy experts' ( I just met a lot of them this year) Sorry NO GALVEZ.
Do I know the Latin way of doing things?
Do I learn something new everyday ?? ( I don´t know anybody that knows all about SW items!!) ...DO you???
After answering all this questions ....Can you be 100% sure about something you don´t know????
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wbobafett
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 22, 2010 1:33 pm

hey merlin,

read my post:

1. I never said you lied!
2. I never said: I dont believe ya ( yes I said: kidds minds can fool yourself...and I heard too many wiered storys...so that was just another point of view I wanted to mention)
3. I only said: not for testing the market! Thats all!
4. I also said: There is only one sense to me giving away such figures: Using parts that would otherwise thrown away!
5. You hadnt say to me that LL had poor quality control...I knew it...I collect them since years!

So calm down...I never did ya any harm! Just questioning the fact WHY they did this!

edit: And im not familiar with the history of southamerica....true! BUT...real third world counties didnt have a license or even saw SW in the 80s....that is all!



Wolff
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merlin
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 22, 2010 1:41 pm

@wbobafett wrote:
hey merlin,

read my post:

1. I never said you lied!
2. I never said: I dont believe ya ( yes I said: kidds minds can fool yourself...and I heard too many wiered storys...so that was just another point of view I wanted to mention)
3. I only said: not for testing the market! Thats all!
4. I also said: There is only one sense to me giving away such figures: Using parts that would otherwise thrown away!
5. You hadnt say to me that LL had poor quality control...I knew it...I collect them since years!

So calm down...I never did ya any harm! Just questioning the fact WHY they did this!

edit: And im not familiar with the history of southamerica....true! BUT...real third world counties didnt have a license or even saw SW in the 80s....that is all!



Wolff

No problem bro....... I´m gald that you don´t consider Mexico a real third world country!!!
Wink

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wbobafett
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 22, 2010 1:55 pm

Hey....you produced the VW Beetle since 1964!! lol!
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merlin
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 22, 2010 2:29 pm

@wbobafett wrote:
Hey....you produced the VW Beetle since 1964!! lol!

lol! lol! lol! ...it sadly stopped like 6 or 7 years ago!!! .... lol!
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wbobafett
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 22, 2010 2:30 pm

@merlin wrote:
@wbobafett wrote:
Hey....you produced the VW Beetle since 1964!! lol!

lol! lol! lol! ...it sadly stopped like 6 or 7 years ago!!! .... lol!

I know...dont get parts for mine anymore!
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merlin
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 22, 2010 2:41 pm

@wbobafett wrote:
@merlin wrote:
@wbobafett wrote:
Hey....you produced the VW Beetle since 1964!! lol!

lol! lol! lol! ...it sadly stopped like 6 or 7 years ago!!! .... lol!

I know...dont get parts for mine anymore!

YEAP .... every single year are harder to get!!!! ...... and also you can see less Beetle´s in the streets!
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Tiefighterboy
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 22, 2010 2:42 pm

I am an old man and lived as a child thru the 70's and as a teen ager thru the mid 80's. It would be a waste back then to assemble these for no profits as it would be today. Cell phone or no cell phone. Interesting rambling thread though. Very Happy
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merlin
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 22, 2010 2:55 pm

@Tiefighterboy wrote:
I am an old man and lived as a child thru the 70's and as a teen ager thru the mid 80's. It would be a waste back then to assemble these for no profits as it would be today. Cell phone or no cell phone. Interesting rambling thread though. Very Happy


Glad that you share your opinion...... If you lived thru those years then I assume´you can set your mind in the early 80´s in mexico ...... Does the monopoly game sounds familiar to you!!...

JUST imagine what you can do If you are the only product available ???........

like I said before ..... I´m just tired of trying to explain the situation here in mexico during that era .... but cell phones or no cell phones it was like that!! ...and that is a fact...

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RebelChris
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 23, 2010 11:26 am

After reading through this thread again, and seeing the state of things, I think we all need to get this discussion back on point.

The facts of the thread are:

1. OP asked if this figure was real or fake... we all answered fake with various reasons behind it.
2. Merlin then states:

@Merlin wrote:

PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING!!!.....VERY IMPORTANT .....

By any meanings I´m no expert , but I have tell this story before....

I went to the Ledy factory when I was a kid , and at the end of the tour , you received an action figure or something else , ( my brother got a L.L. star wars action figure like that one when he went!!) .... they were assambled with many parts of several action figures and they were in large buckets so people grab them at the end of the tour!! , I also recall that Ledy give away action figures like that one to the poor people back in the early 80´s ...

Of course I can´t tell if that´s real or not!!! .....

3. Joe, Myself, Wolff and others are trying to get to the root of that story. And in doing so tried to open a CIVIL discussion about whether these "Frankenfigures" (as Joe puts it) were in fact handed out at the end of a tour.

No one is questioning whether or not Merlin took a tour of the Ledy factory, or that figures were handed out at the end of the tour. We just would like some more evidence (be that through photos, other collectors chiming in or from a Ledy factory rep.) that Ledy handed out THESE types of figures at the end of the tour. Will we ever be able to prove that these figures were or weren't handed out at the end of the tour? Probably not 100% accurately no. However, that's part of the fun of the discussion and trying to solve these riddles from our childhood.

Going forward, I think all parties (myself included) need to keep the extra-curricular comments out of the discussion. It doesn't matter how long a person has been on this planet, or how long they've been collecting, or who they've talked to/know in the hobby. We are all adults and we should all be able to express our differing points without lowering ourselves to petty jabs at each other that keep the actual discussion off track.

That ALL being said, just because I am an admin of TIG, doesn't mean I know everything or that I am by any means an expert. I too learn new things everyday, especially about this great hobby. That also doesn't mean that I carry some chip on my shoulder about it. The community that Jay has worked so hard to build here is one of respect and friendship. Especially for our fellow collectors. And the admin team that he has assembled 100% believe in those core values. So don't think for a minute that because you disagree with one of the mods on this site that you are instantly going to be in trouble or kicked off. We aren't like that and never will be. Like I said, we are all here to learn. However, that doesn't mean that occasionally we won't kick Wolff off the site just because! Wink Very Happy Kidding of course. lol!

So please let the discussion continue. Very Happy
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wbobafett
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 23, 2010 12:04 pm

HEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Angry SW
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merlin
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 24, 2010 1:01 am

@RebelChris wrote:
After reading through this thread again, and seeing the state of things, I think we all need to get this discussion back on point.

The facts of the thread are:

1. OP asked if this figure was real or fake... we all answered fake with various reasons behind it.
2. Merlin then states:

@Merlin wrote:

PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING!!!.....VERY IMPORTANT .....

By any meanings I´m no expert , but I have tell this story before....

I went to the Ledy factory when I was a kid , and at the end of the tour , you received an action figure or something else , ( my brother got a L.L. star wars action figure like that one when he went!!) .... they were assambled with many parts of several action figures and they were in large buckets so people grab them at the end of the tour!! , I also recall that Ledy give away action figures like that one to the poor people back in the early 80´s ...

Of course I can´t tell if that´s real or not!!! .....

3. Joe, Myself, Wolff and others are trying to get to the root of that story. And in doing so tried to open a CIVIL discussion about whether these "Frankenfigures" (as Joe puts it) were in fact handed out at the end of a tour.

No one is questioning whether or not Merlin took a tour of the Ledy factory, or that figures were handed out at the end of the tour. We just would like some more evidence (be that through photos, other collectors chiming in or from a Ledy factory rep.) that Ledy handed out THESE types of figures at the end of the tour. Will we ever be able to prove that these figures were or weren't handed out at the end of the tour? Probably not 100% accurately no. However, that's part of the fun of the discussion and trying to solve these riddles from our childhood.

Going forward, I think all parties (myself included) need to keep the extra-curricular comments out of the discussion. It doesn't matter how long a person has been on this planet, or how long they've been collecting, or who they've talked to/know in the hobby. We are all adults and we should all be able to express our differing points without lowering ourselves to petty jabs at each other that keep the actual discussion off track.

That ALL being said, just because I am an admin of TIG, doesn't mean I know everything or that I am by any means an expert. I too learn new things everyday, especially about this great hobby. That also doesn't mean that I carry some chip on my shoulder about it. The community that Jay has worked so hard to build here is one of respect and friendship. Especially for our fellow collectors. And the admin team that he has assembled 100% believe in those core values. So don't think for a minute that because you disagree with one of the mods on this site that you are instantly going to be in trouble or kicked off. We aren't like that and never will be. Like I said, we are all here to learn. However, that doesn't mean that occasionally we won't kick Wolff off the site just because! Wink Very Happy Kidding of course. lol!

So please let the discussion continue. Very Happy


CHRIS.... you most be kidding , right??? what discussion you want to continue???, I don`t get it?? .... if you want pics from a place that doesn`t exist anymore, and it gets better, you want pics from anybody that went in that guided tour picking up an action figure!! ...LOL!.... ( really ???, you most be kidding me!) ..I don`t think you or me or anybody else will find a picture of that... the most I can get is my friends and myself going out of the Factory....LMAO!... sorry, I didn`t took a pic thinking I will need it to prove something 30 years later!!... At first , some of you didn`t even belive that I visited the Factory ( like if it was something out of this world!!....) ...so like I stated before... I`m done sharing my ledy experiences with walls

@Joe_O wrote:
No wonder they had so much overstock parts, they spent all day making whacky creations Laughing

I agree with wolff, in reality it doesn't make sense, however I can't disprove a memory as I am not from
Mexico and I have never visited the Ledy factory.

One thing I find strange is that I have heard this "visiting the factory" memory before but no-one ever remembers
where it actually was or can give an address/pictures Sad We even have a dedicated "where is the ledy factory" thread and
it ended up with none of us knowing much else apart from finding an admin building!


The facts about the action figure from ebay..... I still don`t think that one is the real thing, because I`ve seen those kind of figures , and the ones I saw were almost all grey ( unpainted) of course assembled with other parts of other figures. ( yes like Joe call them Frankenfigures.¿) , but again, ONLY 2 WEEKS AGO THE FIRST MOC LEDY WITH THE BACK PRINTED DOWNWARDS EMERGED, AND 2 DAYS AFTER THAT THE SECOND ONE ( ONLY CARDBACK!)....of course I know it doesn`t make any sense to you because you haven`t seen them ...but they do exist!........
What I found funny is why the seller thought that all of you will knew this kind of action figures.... ( Now I`m sure that nobody else outside Mexico knows them!!) ...LOL!
Now I can also be sure That is only known by Mexican collectors that this figures existed.......

Chris ... you said you know many collectors and that you want to get to the root of this......is very, very easy... like I said before ( like 3 or 4 times) .... ask Arturo Soler ( Mexican collector).... he used to have them ..... I don`t know if he still have them or not because when I met him he was selling part of his collection, but he told me he was going to keep some others, as far as I know he also had an original Boba Fett rocket firing ...but I`m sure you can contact him... I saw him and the action figures like 4 years ago in Mexico City....

Anyway ....... I ask a question to the seller... basically asking him ..where did he get it, and why is he selling it, if nobody knows this kind of items.... let`s wait for the response...

Hola amigo, tengo una pregunta.. Yo vi de estas figuras hace como 4 años con un coleccionista que se llamaba Arturo Soler , eran como la tuya, pero grises y tambien de diferentes figuras, por lo que se y lo que el me dijo era que Ledy las daba a los niños pobres de la epoca en vez de las "Buenas", yo fui alguna vez a la fabrica de Ledy en un recorrido con mi escuela , y recuerdo que las tenian al final del recorrido en unas cubetas y ahi las podias agarrar... Mi pregunta , esta figura de donde la sacaste??? .... estamos en una discusion en un foro de Star wars porque yo si he visto estas figuras pero todos los demas no... creen que nunca existieron, lo que me curiosidad, es por que la sacaste a la venta aqui , si por lo que he visto casi todos desconocen de la existencia de estas figuras... SALUDOS!



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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 24, 2010 2:13 am

Wow, where do I begin? I hate getting involved in discussions like this but I just want to point out a couple things.

I, also, don't doubt that there were tours of the factory and even figures handed out. Whether these figures were truely LL figures or slopped up parts may be in question. The question was brought up that Kenner should have known that this was happening and why would they do this? Well, simple... they may not have known. This is 1980's Mexico guys! I find it hard to believe that the execs at Kenner, let alone LFL, had constant personal visibility at the factories in Mexico, let alone other countries. The only country that I'm aware that Kenner regularly sent people was to Hong Kong and Maacu where a vast majority of the figures (U.S. released) were produced. That is a fact from former Kenner employees. Do you know how many bootleg factories were in Mexico during this time? Do you think that if Kener had such a strong presence in Mexico that they would notice this. I mean the factory that produced the Mexican/SA line of bootlegs was not far from the LL factory, and they were produced from the early 1980's to past the 1990's.

Now I'm not sure why the "Frank" Biker Scout from Ebay was even referenced because that figure is nothing more than a common LL factory overstock figure. There are TONS of these out there, all of us know it.

Regardless, I see a bunch of people thinking they are experts on the situation and questioning the original author who is from that country. Why the hell would we know better?

In my 7 years of research and collecting Mexican bootlegs I can honestly say that anything is possible in that country. I've been there and I wouldn't be surprised. I can tell you some similar stories from other coutries like this. Do your research on culture kids!

Cheers!
Steven
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Tiefighterboy
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 24, 2010 11:13 am

This is getting way to serious. Maybe they did have tours. I have worked in plastics manufacturing as an engineer for decades and we would never have people tour the plant as it is a liability and too unsafe for the general public, also there is not to much to see in the molding process or assembly process(Way too boring for seven year olds)....but I agree mexico did not have rigorous safety standards then or now. So I believe you. Now relax and drink a beer....they are only toys.
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merlin
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 24, 2010 11:41 am

@Tiefighterboy wrote:
This is getting way to serious. Maybe they did have tours. I have worked in plastics manufacturing as an engineer for decades and we would never have people tour the plant as it is a liability and too unsafe for the general public, also there is not to much to see in the molding process or assembly process(Way too boring for seven year olds)....but I agree mexico did not have rigorous safety standards then or now. So I believe you. Now relax and drink a beer....they are only toys.

Exactly Tiefighterboy and Rebojazz!!!! ... That is what I`ve been trying to tell and I`m glad that somebody is listening.... it was the 80`s and they were/are pieces of plastic ( by the way...very cheap!!!!!)..

Is like we are discussing how to cure cancer!!! ... lol! lol! lol! lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 24, 2010 4:54 pm


Has anyone seen this listing the title is "MEGA RARE MEXICAN EWOK CHIEF CHIRPA TEST SHOT LILI LEDY"

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MEGA-RARE-MEXICAN-EWOK-CHIEF-CHIRPA-TEST-SHOT-LILI-LEDY-/270623654156?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0


Real or fake ? - Page 3 Pictur12

Description -

VINTAGE AND MEGA RARE STAR WARS EWOK CHIEF CHIRPA TEST SHOT FIGURE, MADE IN MEXICO BY LILI LEDY, CIRCA 80's. THIS FIGURE HAS TRASNPARENT THE ARMS AND THE FEET, THE FIGURE IS 100% ORIGINAL MADE BY LILI LEDY TOYS, IN GOOD CONDITIONS 3 3 1/4 INCHES LONG MORE OR LESS, IF YOU ARE A COLLECTOR OF THIS KIND OF FIGURES, PLEASE SEE THE PHOTOS, THE SHIPPING COST IS JUST TO USA AND CANADA PLEASE ASK ME ABOUT THE SHIPPING COST TO OTHER PART OF THE WORLD, I DON'T ACCEPT PERSONAL CHECKS. THE FIGURE IS LIKE YOU SEE IN THE PHOTOS.

IF YOU HAVE SOME DOUBTS MAIL ME...

***SOLD AS IS***


++PLEASE CHECK MY OTHER RARE TOYS OF STAR WARS .++


WIN MORE OF MY AUCTIONS AND SAVE ON SHIPPING COSTS!






_________________________________________________
***THIS PROFILE IS UNMONITORED*** Please contact Darthberizing
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merlin
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 24, 2010 5:04 pm

I think there is one thing we can all agree!!!!
lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!


Is very possible that IS NOT a test shot ( also the other ones he is selling!!!!)

lol! lol! lol! lol!

Only common LL factory overstock figures.!!


Last edited by merlin on Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 24, 2010 5:05 pm

"Sold as is", what the fuck does that mean anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 24, 2010 5:05 pm

Yea, I've noticed this one for a few days now. Kind of weird looking. I've seen transparent plastics used in bootlegs (I have a Fett with semi-trans blue plastic) so I don't know if this is a hybrid or an actual "first shot". I have bought from this seller many times though, but I don't know his knowledge on true LL items.
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 24, 2010 5:10 pm

Well Cristian has one of these figures and it even features on this site in the prototype / pre production gallery
that Steve set up -

Real or fake ? - Page 3 Chirpa10

It's described as a mold purge in this thread.

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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 24, 2010 5:12 pm

And for the record, especially as its the same seller as the Frank figure, I am not saying that it's real or not, just throwing it out
there that people are laughing at this one yet another one is up in the prototype thread lol
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Age : 47
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 24, 2010 5:39 pm

Even looks like the same figure with the black mark on the leg and all.
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Chris_J
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Chris_J

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Age : 49
Location : US

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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 24, 2010 6:12 pm

That is the same one, unless the seller and Cristian have the same background for their pictures.
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Tiefighterboy
Imperial Officer
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Tiefighterboy

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Location : Mitten USA

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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 24, 2010 6:34 pm

I dont know why you would purge the machine...then turn around and mold limbs in the mold...then to turn around and assemble the item. In plastics the only reason you purge the plastic is for mold change or color changes....and you do not mold until the color is 100% correct to save money from scrap.
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Real or fake ? - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 3 I_icon_minitime

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