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 Real or fake ?

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aussiejames
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 24, 2010 8:39 pm

I think that Chirpa is kinda neat. I've been watching it, but at $200+ it is NOT coming to my house. EDIT : $292 Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 25, 2010 4:34 pm

@aussiejames wrote:
I think that Chirpa is kinda neat. I've been watching it, but at $200+ it is NOT coming to my house. EDIT : $292 Shocked

WOW thats high i didnt think it would reach nearly $300!

So whats the deal then guys is the item real and does it come with any providence history?

Cheers Jay

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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 26, 2010 9:06 am

Real or fake ? - Page 4 Pictur12Real or fake ? - Page 4 Chirpa10

Noticed a few people said these looked like the same figure, side by side you can see they are not, the dark marks seem to be inside the plastic and on the 1st photo the left leg has no large black mark at all. The backgrounds are also not the same (just similar)

---------

@Tiefighterboy wrote:
I dont know why you would purge the machine...then turn around and mold limbs in the mold...then to turn around and assemble the item. In plastics the only reason you purge the plastic is for mold change or color changes....and you do not mold until the color is 100% correct to save money from scrap.

I knew one day you would have something useful to contribute to a SW conversation Todd! LOL

No seriously thats some good input and I had no idea you worked in plastics, so in your opinion what are these figures? customs?

Wonder if Cristian could give his take on his own figure (perhaps history and seller etc)
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 26, 2010 10:38 am

Good work Joe Smile

So its defo a different figure so are people saying these are customs then? If they are 300$ is a crazy amount for a custom figure!

As one of them has been added to our Prototype / Pre-production Gallery here on TIG i believe the pictures were sent to Steve do we have any info / provadence that confirms they are genuine? I ask as i would hate to have a custom incorrectly listed as a prototype on this site.

We were discussing this other listing below from the same seller in Chat last night -

MEGA RARE BIG STORMTROOPER MEXICAN FIGURE 14'' TALL

Real or fake ? - Page 4 Mexica10

Description -

VINTAGE AND MEGA RARE STAR WARS STORMTROOPER BOOTLEG FIGURE, MADE IN MEXICO CIRCA 80's. IN GOOD CONDITIONS VERY RARE TALL 14 1/2 INCHES TALL MORE OR LESS, IF YOU ARE A COLLECTOR OF THIS KIND OF FIGURES, PLEASE SEE THE PHOTOS, THE SHIPPING COST IS JUST TO USA AND CANADA PLEASE ASK ME ABOUT THE SHIPPING COST TO OTHER PART OF THE WORLD, I DON'T ACCEPT PERSONAL CHECKS. THE FIGURE IS LIKE YOU SEE IN THE PHOTOS.

IF YOU HAVE SOME DOUBTS MAIL ME...

***SOLD AS IS***


++PLEASE CHECK MY OTHER RARE TOYS OF STAR WARS .++

Again some thought it could be a custom i did some digging around and found this info -

http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=51163

http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=51164

From what i can see its pretty conclusive that this item is infact from 1997 and not circa 1980's vintage?

I was wondering if anyone else had and info on it?

Cheers Jay

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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 26, 2010 10:47 am

It's interesting thinking about the transparent plastics that keep popping up, there were a lot of these figures that turned up during the big Overstock find by Pedro, I will post some pictures up later, these were referred to as test shots back then, well at least that was the term used but a lot of experts claimed it was the wrong term to use.

I think it's possible that at some point during production the limb moulds and torso moulds were just tested with whatever plastic was at hand, maybe Todd can chime in and explain why they would do that or if they ever do test runs to make sure everything is working properly before starting production day to day, I imagine it would be costly to hit go on a production line then 500 toys later find out you have a problem!


As for that Stormy, it looks very vintage as far as the paint scheme goes , but it matches the size of the modern boots on the archive, odd stuff!
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 26, 2010 11:36 am

unsure unsure unsure
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 26, 2010 4:42 pm

@Joe_O wrote:
Real or fake ? - Page 4 Pictur12Real or fake ? - Page 4 Chirpa10

Noticed a few people said these looked like the same figure, side by side you can see they are not, the dark marks seem to be inside the plastic and on the 1st photo the left leg has no large black mark at all. The backgrounds are also not the same (just similar)



I thought the pic posted was from the auction, hence saying they look the same. I never clicked on the link to see it until Josh_T told me it was a different pix. All in all, I still wouldn't fork out the cash not knowing if in deed it was legit.
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 26, 2010 5:05 pm

@Chris_J wrote:
@Joe_O wrote:
Real or fake ? - Page 4 Pictur12Real or fake ? - Page 4 Chirpa10

Noticed a few people said these looked like the same figure, side by side you can see they are not, the dark marks seem to be inside the plastic and on the 1st photo the left leg has no large black mark at all. The backgrounds are also not the same (just similar)



I thought the pic posted was from the auction, hence saying they look the same. I never clicked on the link to see it until Josh_T told me it was a different pix. All in all, I still wouldn't fork out the cash not knowing if in deed it was legit.

The fact that there are 2 of them are out there makes it more interesting it would be cool to find out more i have to say i have limited knowledge of plastics but those arms and legs are pretty funky!

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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 26, 2010 6:56 pm

Jay i sent you a PM on this.
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 29, 2010 1:42 pm

As far as test shots go..they could be pre-production pieces that were manually injected into the mold to ensure the molds were correct and the parting lines were clean using a clear silicone product prior to approving the actual mold for form and fit.. These would not bel on the production line test product as they would not be clear and they would not be assembled . Quality would simply check these for color matching and to ensuring the parting lines were clear of flashing. The grease you see however is from the molding process...could be a home job however and is no proof they are real. There was that a nice contribution??? Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 02, 2012 9:36 pm

I have something interesting to show. He is not here yet but will be soon. A little about this....
Characteristics on this figure:
-LL parts, some of them are factory painted, Tie Fighter pilot torso (emblems and chest circuits).
-Torsos are not welded they are glued.
-Paint on body smells and feels LL.
-Paint was hand applied with a brush not with an airbrush and without stencils.
-Mixed LL parts ERG Legs, Biker Scout arms and Tie Pilot torso.
-Unpainted parts under the hand applied paint.
-Figure came from Mexico City. It matches another sample found there but from a different seller.
-Figures have some similarities, boots were painted almost exactly the same.
-They seem to be hard to find and not a lot of collectors have a lot of knowledge about these figures.

I posted this over in the link I added bellow if anyone would like to comment or make an opinion or theory. I don't want to tie this link up with debate over it.....
I did find a link that seems to explain figures like this. Adolfo (Merlin) took tours of the LL factory as a child and seems to know about figures like this. Again, this figure came from Mexico City. I by no means am any type of expert on these figures. I'm just reporting my findings : ) This came from Ozio a very trusted seller and good friend : ) I am including an old link Marco supplied to me, thanks Marco : )
https://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t1630-real-or-fake

Real or fake ? - Page 4 Ll_tie13

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Real or fake ? - Page 4 Ll_tie11

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aussiejames
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 03, 2012 12:50 am

I've seen a 'similar' Chewy with what looked like a LL torso & rubber molded limbs.
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 03, 2012 4:16 am

The characteristic that called my attention on this figure was that, torso is glued not welded and it does not have melt marks at all. Paint smells and feels like LL.
I found 2 of them:
Real or fake ? - Page 4 524410_3425121582708_1110304487_3393004_88356254_n
Black paint matches the one used on LL biker scout, At-St and Madine boots. Grey paint matches the one used for the boots and gloves on the LL tie fighter pilot and red paint matches the one used for the nose on LL Zuckuss and the visor on LL Boba.

IMO:
-some guy had LL overstock pieces and got creative.
-they could be something like the figures Merlin mentioned of his trip to the LL factory.

more pics:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.3425119822664.157728.1110304487&type=3&l=b44b8b113e

:scratch:
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 03, 2012 8:16 am

Thanks for posting the other figure Ozio. I didn't know if I has permission so I left him out.
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 10, 2012 5:40 pm

Hi Guys. I just learned some information about my Frankenstein figure above. The question I had for Luis G was is it possible this could have been handed out at the end of Lili Ledy tours to children and then they hand painted them. This is the answers I received. It appears this figure was created from Lili Ledy overstock from bags found of left over parts that sellers had. Taken back to his (the seller's) home, glued and hand painted. They appeared on the market 7 to 9 years ago. Why they appeared on the market is a whole different mystery. So, although they are authentic overstock parts, it was NOT given out to children at the end of the tours and either was any other Frankenstein type figure. So if anything I am happy to have some information about this piece and I think it's a cool conversation piece in my collection. Plus is was a gift from my friend Ozio. So it means a lot to me : )
BUT if you read Luis's response you will see that is was "possible" complete assembled/or carded figures could have been handed out to children as gifts from memories of Luis G's friend who visited the plant with his father : )

This is Luis's kind response to my questions : )
I have these answers to your questions:

1.- I heard that Lili Ledy did tours to the schools by the time they were still running; it was possible because some companies did tours to schools, colleges, etc. in the past as they do nowadays.

2.- It’s probably that Lili Ledy gave gifts to the kids at the end of the tour but the figures must be complete assembled figures (loose or carded).

I tell you this because when I talked with Mr. Becerra, his son, Alejandro Jr. who is actually on his 40's, told me that when he visited the factory several times with his father he saw a lot of loose assembled figures in trays ready to be packaged (this was also confirmed by his father, then it could be possible that these loose figures could be the gifts given to the kids.
As I know Lili Ledy didn’t have in the production line figures like the frankenstine figures you showed me in your photos. They are nice but they are made with overstock pieces.

3.- The frankenstine figures appeared in Mexico since 7 to 9 years ago and these were made of Lili Ledy overstock pieces; I know that some sellers got bags of overstock pieces and they assembled the figures in the better way they can be assembled getting the frankenstine figures.
It’s notorious that the torsos of these figures were glued together (by the guy who assembled these on his home) instead of being sonic welded as a production regular figure.
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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 10, 2012 9:23 pm

I'm surprised no one has posted on this.

Steve, great info and good on you for asking Luis. Unless something else comes up to prove otherwise, this is what I'm more inclined to believe. It's great that after 2 years we have some more info.

I've just re skimmed most of this thread to try and remember how this all went down. From what I've seen no one has generally doubted you Merlin as far as the factory tours and even a free production figure at the end of the tour. It has always been around these figures assembled from various parts. You still have your memory and nothing can change that. It's certainly now up to each collector to decide how they want to take this info between the two sources. Unless further info surfaces which we can always hope for.




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PostSubject: Re: Real or fake ?   Real or fake ? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 10, 2012 10:24 pm

Hi Shawn. Thank you for the kind reply.
I advise anyone that would like to further discuss this with Luis please approach him at CVI if you attend...
His final remarks were this in his email : )
I hope you can attend CVI to see my presentation, we can talk more about Lili Ledy.
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