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 AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes?

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DarthBerizing
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PostSubject: AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes?   AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes? I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 29, 2010 3:42 pm

Long story short, I paid for premium turnaround (7 to 10 Business Days). Item arrives at CGA on Nov 8th. Now I find out that it won't be ready until Dec 7th which is 19 Business Days.

Now do I complain or is this the standard MO for them? I mean the price difference was only $5 between tiers so but this is the third time that they've gone over. I know it says estimate but if you offer two dates (i.e. 7 to 10) that implies the range. Certainly not 19.

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PostSubject: Re: AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes?   AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes? I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 29, 2010 4:49 pm

Not good especially as you're paying for a particular tier because you want them back sooner. I would coomplain no doiubt. Am sending some stuff soon and certainly don't want any delay like that!
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PostSubject: Re: AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes?   AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 5:10 am

John i have sent AFA/Tom Derby same business all=same to me their all together.
Yes i have sent AFA/Tom some figure's =10 some Ledy,PBP, and TRI-LOGO's.
Tom and i have been emailing each other back and forth trying to get the correct labeling for my figure's, we seem not to agree on some stuff and also he has sent me pic's of my figure's to look at and my Bespin weapon from my Ledy Lando Calrissian is mixed with another figure a NO coo AT-AT commander.
Long story short i asked for refund,send figure's back and asked please don't mix my stuff and or loose it.He had my ledy han solo mixed with 3 other ledy's of his, mine was the red cape version hope he don't send back a brown version,also all my weapon's were mixed up from pic's he sent,what a fkn catastorphee,i can't,no don't have the energy to deal with having my stuff acryliced anymore. I'm done i just can't deal with the feascoe's going on over their down in AFA land.Seriously-i'm very frusterated, it's a big mess,very dissaponted.
I'm glad i got this off my chest, i sent my stuff to AFA over 3-4 month's ago it's been a long time waiting to find out the situation over there with my stuff as usual is all fubar'd.
:explosion: phew poo whack :caps: :abducted: :abducted:
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PostSubject: Re: AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes?   AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 7:41 am

Hi Everyone,

I certainly didn't intend for a post like this to be my first, but I feel the need to address this because my perspective is completely different and the post above was prepared based on incorrect assumptions and fails to acknowledge the actual facts at hand. This is not meant to reflect negatively on anyone, but simply to explain the situation discussed above.

1) I was asked for my opinion on the above submission by AFA because the variations listed on the submission form didn't seem to match what they had found through research. This pertained to a Han Hoth, 2 AT-AT Commanders, and a Walrusman. The issues they asked about related to the origin of the "1 on boot" Walrusman, the origin of the Han Hoth, and whether one of the PBP AT-AT Commanders should be termed a "pale face" version. I emailed Dan on 11/9 to explain that AFA disagreed on some of the data and had questions about other parts. I offered my help (free of charge) and was told that time wasn't a factor, but that he wanted to be certain they would be labeled correctly.

2) When I conveyed that my initial opinion matched that of AFA and that I would look into the origin of the Walrusman, I was told that many well known experts here on TIG had verified the Han Hoth as PBP and the Walrusman as PBP. I told Dan that I would be taking them from AFA and would research them. Since the acrylic cases were already made and set up, the weapons taped in place, and AFA confirmed they had checked the weapons, I took only the figures from the submission by placing them in 4mil bags inside loose star cases.

3) I emailed again on 11/22 and stated the following:

Hi Dan,

I wanted to follow-up with you. AFA is getting a decent amount of free work out of me on this submission. The only thing holding it up has been finding information on the Walrusman origin.

My observations which don't match the stated variations are as follows:

Both AT-AT Commanders appear to have been identical originally. Like many dark brown Rebel Soldiers, the flesh paint wears off and exposes a pale color. I believe both versions are flesh face versions, but the flesh tone is fading from one example.

The Han Hoth appears to be a No-COO European version and not a PBP version. I can't find any supporting information for a PBP version with the mid-color tone pants and a flesh face. This appears to be an example known to originate from many tri-logo cards, but does not seem to be exclusive to PBP.

The Walrusman may have to be labeled as "Euro Variant / 1 on Boot" or something similar for now. Little information is available and that seems like it would provide an adequate description.

Please feel free to offer feedback or ask questions and I'll get these back to AFA for return shipping this week.

Thank you,

Tom

4) I never heard back and emailed again on 11/28 to follow-up and make sure this was taken care of.

5) I heard back and was asked if I could take pictures and send them over for review. After spending several hours gathering various examples pertaining to the Han Hoth and putting together a composite image, I received another email prior to me sending over all the information I had. That email acknowledged that the Walrusman and Han Hoth may in fact be better classified as European rather than PBP (potentially per the same experts who had verified these as PBP). Several hours of time I don't have had already been spent gathering information to support how I thought these should be classified. The only remaining original difference of opinion was now the face color on one of the AT-AT Commanders. However, yesterday afternoon's email also asked that the Lili Ledy Han Trench be labeled as a "red camo" variation. This was the first request I had heard for that. I provided the following feedback:

Hi Dan,

These are the variations I have marked with the exception of the 2 AT-AT Commanders, both of which I believe are/were flesh face, but one with paint fading, primarily around the edges of the face. I've attached a picture. The Walrusman with 1 on boot should be labeled with both the -- (dash-dash) COO which usually applies to European release and the description of "1 on boot" which should leave no doubt of which version it is. I was unaware of a further variation on the Han Trenchcoat, but in looking at the 4 I have (3 lighter capes, darker spots - but brown with a hint of a red tone, and 1 darker, possibly faded material cape, like yours with lighter spots, but a more muted brown, also with a hint of red), I would have trouble calling one a red variation and one a brown variation. These differences are slight production variances and exist on almost all figures. I would say that until a system for better classifying exact variations, COO placement, etc. is agreed upon, things like this probably won't be labeled to that level of detail. I offered to work on a system like this, but many people didn't support the idea, so maybe one day every small variation can be classified in a uniform manner once I can re-address that project in the future. I'll take these figures back to AFA tomorrow. Please let me know if I can do anything else to help.

Thanks,

Tom

6) I received a return email from Dan who was frustrated because the weapons in the AT-AT Commander pictures were not the ones he sent. I'm surprised that after receiving an email at 3:54AM (and responding within a few hours) this post already exists. An assumption was made that these weapons were switched when they were not. I explained this in an email sent at 5:37AM but I guess this was not fast enough. I explained that I had actually photographed 4 different AT-AT Commanders with random weapons and cropped those 2 out for him to see what I was referring to regarding the paint fading. I have been working on a very large project and have shot hundreds of figures and accessories at high resolution as well as scanned COOs and patterns at 600dpi over the past few months. I simply drop out the backgrounds in group shots and separate both the figures and weapons later once each individual picture can be properly classified.

In addition, the brief email pointed out slight shade differences in the AT-AT Commanders which I then reviewed further. I stated the following:

The issue with the AT-AT Commander is that what you mention in the chest and eyebrows, as well as the face can all be classified as possible discoloration. It is very clear that the edges of the face on one example have begun to show paint fading like I often see on dark brown Rebel Soldiers. You can spot this discoloration on carded examples as well. The question is whether the face difference is by design or a product of deterioration or poor quality control. I will verify for AFA that they are both PBP but they can make a decision on whether they want to label a face color variant. Feel free to contact them directly about that.

7) Regarding the concern about weapons being switched and the assertion that his Lili Ledy Lando gun was pictured, I explained that I didn't even have the accessories and that they were already taped inside his figure cases still at AFA. I also conveyed that if he had submitted a blue gun with the Lando, I believed that to be the incorrect (or at least less than ideal accessory) as the carded examples I had seen to date all had grey blasters and not blue. I then offered to replace his blaster with the correct blaster when I next go to AFA free of charge. I won't even comment on the assertion that I may mix up his Han Trenchcoat.

Maybe this post should be chalked up to the fact that I consistently put in more than a normal person's work week just helping collector's with issues free of charge, am consistently up until 5AM or later, and often communicate with upset collectors who don't seem to appreciate the help I provide, but I just wanted to provide an accurate reflection of events.

In summation, I'm not sure what else I can do to help and I believe I have gone above and beyond. However, as I have privately stated, let me know if I can do anything else to help.

Thank you,

Tom

P.S. This topic as well as other confusion will only be properly addressed when a standardized system is in place to document existing variations worldwide. Imperial Gunnery has certainly made the most progress to date towards that goal, but I would also like to suggest some additional ideas which may help. I will discuss my ideas in the near future once I complete the Kellerman book, the framework for an upcoming site, my current projects involving combating fraud in the hobby, and many other things. I have also almost completed my first contribution for this site, the Jawa figure and cape/stitch variations. It is daunting because when it comes to capes, it seems they are endless and I need to discuss which should actually be counted as true variations. I have scanned about 15 versions at 600dpi so far and know of 3-4 more. I have also been collecting data for Jay on weapon variations and I do have some new ones to add. My next post will be in regards to a productive project to work together gathering data and compiling the opinions of the most knowledgeable collectors for each specific subset of loose variations. However, this post was not planned and with everything else I have going on it will likely be 2-4 more weeks until I can set everything up to move forward with that post and my proposed method of information sharing. I look forward to future participation on this site.
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AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes? Empty
PostSubject: Re: AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes?   AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 9:36 am

I guess my extra nine business days isn't such a big deal lol!

Tom - I think your explanation is extremely thorough and clears up a lot. In fairness to Dan, maybe not seeing everything laid out in one smooth read like this could explain the frustration on his part as well. That said, it looks like there is resolution which is great.

On a personal note, great to see you on board (ooh a homonym)! You really are one the people I think deserves every kudo he receives. Happy you're here, and come into chat when you have a chance to get to know this merry band.

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PostSubject: Re: AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes?   AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 9:37 am

Hi Tom

I hope your well Smile

Very interesting post i have to agree on the Walrusman as the Scar with 1 on boot can be found on ROTJ Palitoy MOC's with the Tri Logo bubble so Euro Variant / 1 on Boot will be as acurate as you can get imo. Its seems a lot of people especially on ebay consider this to be the PBP Variant whilst its possible it was also released on PBP Cards its seems to be mainly found on the relatively Common Walrusman ROTJ Palitoys. The case is there for the full scar Dark Green Walrusman to be the acutal PBP Figure but more MOC evidence is be needed.

It sounds like an incredible work load Tom i hope your still making time for your family buddy Smile

Im looking foward to working together on both the weapon content as well as developing a standardised system for the wide range of loose variants Smile Its be everybody pitching in together can we make great strides forward for the good of the hobby and i hope as many people get involved as possible to support the projects.

If we dont speak before (taking on board your 2-4 week time scale) i hope you and your family have a great Xmas!

Cheers Jay


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PostSubject: Re: AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes?   AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 9:05 pm

This is a pic from RS claiming the two coat variation's.The one i sent in is the same as the one on left."red"
Clothing variations: In this category the most known variations involve the clothing for Bib Fortuna and Squid Head but there are also other variations including the Han Solo Trench Coat which can be found in two versions, one with reddish camouflage and the other in brown.
AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes? Var1
Yes we talked out and figured out the AT-AT commander's were NO coo's no biggy.
I sent two Walrusman in to AFA one was EURO and one was PBP,i beleive.
The ledy lando calrissian came with blue or grey blaster's.
I do get confused easy but i think this is correct info.


Last edited by vintageSWfan on Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes?   AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 9:23 pm

Christ Dan you sure are giving people headaches! LOL
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PostSubject: Re: AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes?   AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 9:29 pm

I've decided to not seal up any more loose fig's in plastic i'm keeping them set free.
cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers
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PostSubject: Re: AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes?   AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 9:36 pm

I think grading loose figures works for Kenner if thats what people like to do, but the euro / ledy stuff is still far from being an exact science with so many COO's looking similar etc.

As far as the figure being exactly what you want it to be Dan, that's just down to research and checking with other collectors on the net like you know, when it comes to condition, well lets be honest - its easier to find a mint kenner than it is a PBP or a Ledy, so as long as it is *Correct* does it really need to be graded and scored for condition ?

I think you made the right choice man, just stick to a loose display without the confusing labelling and email battles trying to get things designated as you want them to be. Cool
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PostSubject: Re: AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes?   AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 9:48 pm

Your exactley right Joe.
I'm keeping all my figure's that are loose,free and plasitic encased free.
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PostSubject: Re: AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes?   AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 10:11 pm

Joe have you seen my new sig.Sometime's I feel like i'm that guy on the phone talking to that dude named Peggy,lol.
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PostSubject: Re: AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes?   AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 11:27 pm

I wasn't going to post here anymore because of the whole Wolff situation but I can't let this one go..

Dan, you are an [EDITED FOR CONTENT]. We all know it but I guess everyone is just too damn damn nice to say it to you here at TIG. After Tom bent over backwards to help you it was extremely poor form for you to compare Tom to "Peggy". Let's get this one fact straight, if anyone is Peggy in this situation it is you. You are that clueless person on the other end of the phone which is why you don't even realize it.

You'd be doing everyone a favor if you stopped researching variants and submitting items to AFA because every time someone tries to help you, you treat them like a jerk.

Of course, now you will probably go back and edit your previous post, which seems to be your MO after you make yourself look like a moron.
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PostSubject: Re: AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes?   AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 02, 2010 2:07 am

Chris wow,thank's.
I was just making a joke about how i feel sometimes. unsure it had nothing to do with what your thinking,i'm not you.
I was'nt meening anything about the video, i put up funny vid's in my sig all the time they don't meen to offend. sorry bout the vid is it that bad.
Does everyone agree with Chris's opinion how he feel's about me??I'm ignorant ok a little,A'hole maby only when i drink,moron c'mon that hurt's.He seem's to think so,so i guess it's true.geez should i end it all collecting/ext.
i'm sorry you feel this way about me,i guess i'm not getting a christmas card from ya.Chris your that mad at me about the vid??I thought it was funny?
i never meant any harm by anything,only you made it sound that way by your comment of opinion, not me.
I live laid back and make joke's.I'm not doing anything bad to anyone ever, you make me sound like something ugly, that i'm not.
but opinion's are like a'hole's everbody has one.
I think your way out of line,i put up a funny vid totally out of fun,just me being who i am light hearted and fun.give me a break you attack me i have done nothing to you.
If your angry with other people please don't take it out on me.
Actually there are several of these video's on youtube. i want to put more of them up as fun but i don't want to offend any more TIG bro's let me know if you don't like the Peggy video's ther's one with napolean dynamite that's kilr hilarious.
Dan. cheers
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AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes? Empty
PostSubject: Re: AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes?   AFA Submissions - Anyone else complain about the timeframes? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 02, 2010 1:37 pm

Alirght I am going to pull the ripcord here.

Let me just make this clear. No personal public attacks will be tolerated. We don't do these type of things. The collecting community has taken enough hits, we don't need to add to it.

This is literally a message for everyone.

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P.S. I'm glad you didn't get your toy - Baytrooper
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