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 Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread

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PostSubject: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 09, 2010 6:28 pm


To keep vintage purchases clear here in I have set up this thread for anyone wishing to discuss the various situations, connotations of bidding against fellow forum members friends etc

It’s a wide and board issue and lots of different factors could be discussed considered.

Just to add I 100% back Ham and congratulate him in his auction win it’s a fantastic MOC! Ham didn’t know Jimmy was bidding and vice versa he won it fair and square as he was prepared to pony up and go the distance so I’m pleased he could add a great piece to his focus Smile

To touch on a point Joe made as it may have been misunderstood it actually in part related to me. Sometimes me and Joe can end up eye balling the same items as at times we hunt for similar things as we talk often we usually let each other know if we have spotted something we are thinking of / planning to go for. Incidentally this happened the other week and we saw we were both thinking of jumping on the same item after chatting it was clear the MOC fitted Joes run better than mine so I was happy to stand aside and not drive the price up for him as a competitor plus if I’m honest I’m gearing up towards a big purchase so I have to be good lol

Another factor is getting friends to help out there has been times when I cant bid on US items and friends have stepped in and bided for me and I have done it to help others as well it’s this kind of support which for me is what community is about Smile

Also I don’t think it’s cool in any way to PM someone asking them to move aside because your bidding its rude and arrogant imo to be honest though I have never heard of that happening anyway.

Finally (and Craig highlighted this) there has been numerous times I have been out bid / beaten to the punch by people I know on eBay items (I’m shouldn’t be such a tight git I know lol) if / when that happens I’m the first to congratulate them and I’m always happy to see cool pieces go to forum bros rather than fall into black holes!

Anyway the whole debate is quite interesting and I’m sure people may have different experiences to share hence I set up this thread so people can discuss it here if they want Smile

Jay

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Hyver
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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 09, 2010 6:40 pm

this would be a whole lot easier if ebay didn't blank out the bidders id's, like it used to be!
at least then you could recognize fellow collectors, and then decide for yourself if you wanted to start a bidding war...
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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 09, 2010 6:41 pm

lol, bloody hell dude, it's really not that a bigger deal. But only gonna say this... that we were both bidding on the MOC and none of us knew this until a few days after I had won it and it came up in conversation so was a fair cop if you ask me and no need for a reaction like I got, cold shoulder!.

If someone comments on an auction they are interested in then fair enough BUT not everyone will see that comment and there will always be a risk of members bidding against each other. At the end of the day I guess it boils down to who wants to pay the most for it.
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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 09, 2010 6:45 pm

your case is just an incentive to have this discussion ham
i don't think it's such a big deal either

by the way, i was the one you were bidding against (on jimmy's behalf)
be glad i didn't go any higher (which i could have) lol
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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 09, 2010 6:50 pm

@tigerham wrote:
lol, bloody hell dude, it's really not that a bigger deal. But only gonna say this... that we were both bidding on the MOC and none of us knew this until a few days after I had won it and it came up in conversation so was a fair cop if you ask me and no need for a reaction like I got, cold shoulder!.

If someone comments on an auction they are interested in then fair enough BUT not everyone will see that comment and there will always be a risk of members bidding against each other. At the end of the day I guess it boils down to who wants to pay the most for it.

I dont think its a big deal either Ham but dont want the latest purchases thread messed up anymore so at least if anyone still has comments to make they can make them in this thread no problem Smile

Moving forward its a broader discussion and makes for an interesting topic anyway.

Wouter makes a great point back in the day you could see other bidders usernames so you could see if you were up against a friend these days you cant its also means shill bidding is harder to spot which imo ebay dont give a shit about as its more fees for them anyway.

Jay

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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 09, 2010 8:03 pm

I try my best not to bid against any friend on an item if I can help it. But yhea it is a bitch now that you can't see who your up against. But if you know someone is looking for particular items, it is good to ask them if they are planning on going for it, even if they didn't see it yet (which most likely they did). That way at least one of you will end up with it and no hard feelings are gained in the end. I've done that before and backed off of the item and will again if I see something I know one of you guys are focusing on. And like Jay, I've played the US middleman a couple of times for guys here and will be more than happy to do it for any of you lot. All in all, its good to see the Scout go to a focus collector, no matter which one it was, either Ham or Jimmy. If all else, Ham, if you happen to see another one come up, let Jimmy know about it. That way both of you will have a spectacular item in your collections.
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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 09, 2010 11:07 pm

I wasn't going to reply to this thread but seeing the ebay complaint brought up again, I had a thought.

I don't think ebay constantly changes the username in their masking. So if you know someone's username and ballpark feedback its usually pretty easy to tell. In fact, I propose that we set up a thread that lists ebay usernames, feedback number and what the "hidden" username appears to be for anyone that wants to post. That way if there is any question/doubt/suspicion you can review that thread to get an idea of who is bidding. I'm not saying you have to put your username in there. But I'd be willing to bet that our hidden ebay usernames aren't "jumbled" everytime we log on and bid.

Anyway, just a thought. I'd be willing to start the thread if anyone is up for it.
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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 10, 2010 12:47 am

You are dead right with what you say with the "hidden" names Chris. They are always the same, if you know the rough feedback, you can have a good guess at recognizing people.

Whether it is warranted or needed is another matter that i've not put much thought to so far.....
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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 10, 2010 5:04 am

@RebelChris wrote:
I wasn't going to reply to this thread but seeing the ebay complaint brought up again, I had a thought.

I don't think ebay constantly changes the username in their masking. So if you know someone's username and ballpark feedback its usually pretty easy to tell. In fact, I propose that we set up a thread that lists ebay usernames, feedback number and what the "hidden" username appears to be for anyone that wants to post. That way if there is any question/doubt/suspicion you can review that thread to get an idea of who is bidding. I'm not saying you have to put your username in there. But I'd be willing to bet that our hidden ebay usernames aren't "jumbled" everytime we log on and bid.

Anyway, just a thought. I'd be willing to start the thread if anyone is up for it.




Good idea!

I wish the autograph collectors on RS were this nice when it comes to not bidding on an item someone else has dibs on!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 10, 2010 10:57 am

I posted a thread in the TIG Reference thread if anyone is interested. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 10, 2010 11:05 am

@RebelChris wrote:
I wasn't going to reply to this thread but seeing the ebay complaint brought up again, I had a thought.

I don't think ebay constantly changes the username in their masking. So if you know someone's username and ballpark feedback its usually pretty easy to tell. In fact, I propose that we set up a thread that lists ebay usernames, feedback number and what the "hidden" username appears to be for anyone that wants to post. That way if there is any question/doubt/suspicion you can review that thread to get an idea of who is bidding. I'm not saying you have to put your username in there. But I'd be willing to bet that our hidden ebay usernames aren't "jumbled" everytime we log on and bid.

Anyway, just a thought. I'd be willing to start the thread if anyone is up for it.



You are right Chris and I've used the feedback method before in determining if I knew who the buyer if an auction was. I haven't ever tried to make sense of the names, but maybe we could crack ebays system for that. lol

I hadn't planned on replying to this thread either with some of the hostility going on, but with my experience, felt like I needed to.

Including me, I know of 4 collectors that focus on LJ and I've been in contact with all of them at various times. We shoot info back and forth to each other, ask about auctions, etc, and sometimes a piece will come up that one of us wants pretty badly. If it is something I'm not already perusing or have lack of funds, I don't mind stepping aside. And so far they have done the same for me. I feel pretty lucky that they all happen to be like that and not so cutthroat. Do they have pieces I'd love to get my hands on? Sure! But at least I know where some of them reside and they are not off the radar.

About a year ago one of these collectors was forced to sell due to some life situations. Several of his pieces ended up in our collections and in a way we were able to help him out a bit. Also, you never know when a collector might upgrade. About a year ago I picked up a piece that a friend also wanted which I had no idea at the time. I clicked BIN and thought nothing of it. Later I found out he had been working with the seller behind the scenes to acquire the piece. Recently I found an upgrade to that piece, so he was the first person I offered the previous one too and at my original cost. You never know when something like that can happen.

The point I want to make, is in most cases this is production stuff. There will be another one! It might take some time to track down, but very rarely is a production item a known one of a kind. I'm glad to have these friendships with collectors that share my passion and it isn't worth it to damage that.

Now as far as preproduction goes, then yes I think the collector with the biggest wallet/best contacts wins as most of those items are one offs or very low quantities. Luckily for us that hasn't really been an issue as a lot of it resides in a collection that started before any of the others.
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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 10, 2010 11:25 am

@shawn_k wrote:


The point I want to make, is in most cases this is production stuff. There will be another one! It might take some time to track down, but very rarely is a production item a known one of a kind.

quoted for truth!
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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 10, 2010 2:29 pm

why should I need to know the hidden names???

If they are really friends, I normally ASK before go on bidding! I always talk to my friends about auctions that might interest both...me and the friend!

If not....hey its still an auction...make the highest bid and you win.....thats all!

just my 2 cents


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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 10, 2010 6:38 pm

Late to the show guys, looks like ive missed the fun Rolling Eyes

Personally if i want something i will bid, at the end of the day its an auction so may the best man win.
There have been times when someone has said they were going to bid on something that i have in my watch list so i have held off, but if its something i really wanted i would just place my highest bid and hope for the best.

If its true that Jimmy has got his knickers in a twist over the italian BS then that is really really silly.
He should of bid more, he didn't and Ham did.....end of story and congrats to Ham.
There will be others Jimmy so don't stress over it dude.

I've had it happen to me where people have put up pics in the latest purchase thread and it has been something i got outbid on. I just look and think fuck, i should of bid more....my loss but oh well congrats to the winner.

sometimes its nice to see things i wanted and lost out on go to guys i know, it means you can keep track of stuff you want.

In all my years of collecting i have never asked someone not to bid on something i wanted, that to me is cheeky as fuck.

Anyway, now you guys all know not to ask me to back off lol.





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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 11, 2010 1:02 pm

Some interesting viewpoints on the subject and remind me not to PM Del if I see something I want LOL Very Happy

My personal take is that I have no problem for the most part backing off if someone asks. I've done it a bunch of times. The only time I was upset by the process was after a collector (who I backed off three items for) wouldn't return the favor since he "had" to have the item we were both going after. That sort of put me off but I got over it. I did save some big money once when I found out a fellow collector and I were going to bid on two MOCs. We agreed on one each and we both did well since it turned out we were the only ones bidding.

That said, if I loose out to someone on an auction I don't care. If I wanted it I would've bid more. It's that simple. I don't see the big deal. It's a toy, not a new heart or something.


BTW - if you loose an auction, there is a way to see who won Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 11, 2010 1:16 pm

It is an interesting subject , I honestly think its best man wins most of the time, I wouldn't say I actively try to track down forum members that *might* be interested in the same item but have definitely spoken to people regarding items we might well be bidding against each other on to see what the deal is (not in a bad way, just "are you bidding on ___") at the end of the day it's going home to whoever bids the most- after that fact if someone displays it or shows it off somewhere you could always approach them to buy it or at least for first dibs if its something they may sell in the future.

As for bidding against friends , well that can be a different ball game in my opinion and its probably going to boil down to what kind of person you are and how you want to collect and more importantly how well you know the other guy and how much of a friend they are to you.

If you bid + buy as if everyone is the enemy then forum friends or ebayers that you know or have traded with won't be in your thoughts on any deal, if you like the community aspect and you integrate yourself and talk to others and find yourself interested in something your friend on the forum might be bidding on it wouldn't be out of this world to at least PM them and see if they are bidding for your own sake- its risky because you may well be "outing" the auction to a potential opponent, I guess a PM or some kind of contact would be based on how well you knew the person- for example there are people here and on other forums I know well enough to talk to about an item and not worry about the outcome or at least know that we could talk about it without throwing our toys out of the pram, yet there are others that I wouldn't bother with because I don't know them too well to be doing them favours and vice versa.

If someone approached me on an item I wanted to buy but could let go- I would weigh it up and possibly pass, sometimes people are buying things to complete important runs, sometimes they are buying it just to have it or get it because its cheap, its nice if the person who is really going to appreciate the item ends up with it rather than someone who isn't too fussed

End of the day it's worth mentioning again what Shawn said - these things were all produced in greater numbers than 1 and usually come up again, however long that may be till you see one again - the day will come and at least you know the last guy you bid against won't be bidding this time Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 11, 2010 4:02 pm

[quote="Joe_O"]

if you like the community aspect and you integrate yourself and talk to others and find yourself interested in something your friend on the forum might be bidding on it wouldn't be out of this world to at least PM them and see if they are bidding for your own sake- its risky because you may well be "outing" the auction to a potential opponent, I guess a PM or some kind of contact would be based on how well you knew the person- for example there are people here and on other forums I know well enough to talk to about an item and not worry about the outcome or at least know that we could talk about it without throwing our toys out of the pram, yet there are others that I wouldn't bother with because I don't know them too well to be doing them favours and


joe i disagree here mate so every stormie or imperial or any other moc i might be interested in ,i should ,because im in the community pm other people who might be interested in it .its a nice idea ,but we would be pming everyone on every auction .If your after something and no one has openly came out and said "i want this" then there is no reason not to bid on the item . All this pming would complicate things imo
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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 11, 2010 4:23 pm

Actually if you look at my post in full I said its down to what kind of person you are mate and if you have close friends to discuss things with, not every time you see an auction you go check with 20 people to find out if they wanna bid or not- I also said I would rarely do that unless I am really close with someone or collect alongside them and our interests are the same.

Quote :
I honestly think its best man wins most of the time, I wouldn't say I actively try to track down forum members that *might* be interested in the same item but have definitely spoken to people regarding items we might well be bidding against each other on to see what the deal is (not in a bad way, just "are you bidding on ___") at the end of the day it's going home to whoever bids the most- after that fact if someone displays it or shows it off somewhere you could always approach them to buy it or at least for first dibs if its something they may sell in the future.

I am not talking about discussing it with everyone, their neighbour and their dog, just 1 or 2 "friends" if you have any collecting friends that is.

Quote :
if you like the community aspect and you integrate yourself and talk to others and find yourself interested in something your friend on the forum might be bidding on it wouldn't be out of this world to at least PM them and see if they are bidding for your own sake

Examples of people that collect similar things that actually help each other out from time to time : Craig and Shawn, Joe and John, Jay and me, everyone needs a favour from time to time and it can and has saved people money by actually speaking to other collectors especially when a seller/source has more than one interesting item for sale and you go for different items.

Equally though, I understand there are guys like yourself that collect for themselves and don't want to get into doing favours or talking things out with others, that's fair enough, I don't expect anyone to do me any favours its just a nice by product of being part of a forum and collecting community- anyways, each to their own, at least today someone from SWCC is talking to me rather than about me eh? Something to be thankful for Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 11, 2010 4:50 pm

Joe why you getting mardy and insulting i put my point forward, i didnt have a dig at you or anyone else ,all i did was say what i thought .
i was going to respond with insults but thats not why i came on here
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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 11, 2010 5:05 pm

Insult all you want if you feel the need to, it doesn't stop anyone doing it behind closed doors does it?

I replied to your post which quotes me that's all - My original post didn't say pm the whole forum or everyone you know that buys a certain type of thing so why are you trying to tell me that's what I am suggesting? If you want to or have friends that you respect and want to talk about a piece, you do so at your discretion and that all depends on what kind of person/collector you are.

If I Had written - "PM'ing people about ebay items is mandatory and should be in the code of conduct for all SW communities" I would understand why you are disagreeing with me but if you read my posts you can see my point, and it's very understanding of people that think like you - so we aren't at opposite ends of the spectrum with regard to our thoughts on the issue its just that you choose to think I am.

It gets my back up when people who are part of a forum badmouthing me under the influence of their fearless leader come here to reply to my posts without reading them, it kinda makes me think its being done to rile me up - because in fact, a few people said in this thread that a PM doesn't hurt or that talking to other collectors isn't the worst idea in the world but you picked up on mine..funny eh?

Look I don't have anything with you, or any of the SWCC guys if they are genuine and not led by others opinions of me, I would happily discuss any kind of star wars subject with you dudes if I didn't think you thought I was a cunt, it just so happens that not many over there have ever dealt with me or spoken to me but because someone says I am a cock- I must be one, right?

I apologise if I come off as confrontational mate, but just put yourself in my shoes with regard to the above and see how you would feel with someone coming along who rarely uses this forum just to reply specifically to your post when you know his mates are taking the piss out of you on another webpage. It wasn't just the other day I was being called a cocksucker by your mates, really makes me feel on top of the world I can tell you Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 11, 2010 5:47 pm

Carl and I have sorted things out in PM so please ignore the above guys Smile

Cheers Carl mate Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread   Bidding against other people, friends, etc Discussion Thread I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 11, 2010 5:54 pm

No probs buddy lol!
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