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 Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?

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DarthTad
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PostSubject: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 05, 2011 12:44 am

I've been reading up on the links about why a U-Grade is bad for the hobby. From what I can tell, most of you guys are of the opinion that it indeed is negative for the hobby we all love. And I agree. But, thinking today, I wonder if there are instances when it would be acceptable, and not detrimental to collectors?

For instance, I remember a topic a few months back where someone had purchased a mail-away that had been U-Graded. For the life of me, I can't remember what figure it was, or who bought it. I do remember that several people were upset that he had supported U-grading by purchasing a U-graded figure. I have no problem with this. If it's in a sealed, plain white mailer, can it really be enjoyed without breaking the seal and displaying it?

Also, is there a point when a MOC figure becomes so mangled that U-Grading is the only way to properly preserve it? For instance, what if it's a severely cracked bubble, and the figure could possibly fall out on it's own? Or what if it's a cut card?

Just thought I'd start a good conversation and see what you all think.

Also, I'm not familiar with how AFA U-Grading works. Do you get to keep the packaging they remove the figure from? Or is it just discarded? Can you have a card encased and displayed with the loose figure the same way you can have a mailer box and catalog included in the case?

The real reason I'm asking is that I have a MIM LL Vader that is completely beat to hell. The card is demolished, and the bubble is cracked, and I'm worried that it will eventually deteriorate to the point that I'll have a loose figure and a beat up card rattling around in a Star Case. If not a U-Grade, is there a better option?

Thanks fellas, I'm looking forward to hearing what y'all think!
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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 05, 2011 8:50 am

IMO keep the U grade completely out of the hobby. If sometime down the road you decide to sell and it's a U grade it will only continue to perpetuate the problem of U grade pricing and people thinking that they have to have U grades in their collections.

To me it's still a better piece even if it is in a beater card with a cracked bubble. If you really want to protect it as is send the whole MOC in for grading. Sure, it may get a low grade but at least you know the figure will be protected in it's original condition. If you are concerned with saving the figure then the grade shouldn't matter to you anyway.

If the figure does come loose on it's own and you want it protected then put in a nice acrylic case or send it in to AFA for a loose grade. If you are just looking to protect the figure and aren't concerned with the grading just put in a nice case. U grade isn't a way to protect a figure. It's more of greed and price inflation issue if you ask me.

Hope this helps and lets you know that there are other ways to protect a figure than a U grade.
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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 05, 2011 9:01 am

I actually like the mailers opened & graded. No need for the U grade. A cracked bubble may not get graded as a U. If you sent the MIM Vader in for grading loose you could get it graded as a Ledy Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 05, 2011 11:17 am

I dont see where any U grade would be acceptable in the hobby, unless it was a case fresh figure where they crack the case and grade the figure straight from it, like they do with modern stuff now. As for mailers, they do look good graded like AJ said, but I wouldn't worry about a U grade. That just brings up the therey of collecting a number instead of the figure. Its just a fad thats on the way of dying out quick with all the knowledge thats out there now on the effects it does to the hobby. Look at the current prices they bring. They are actually going for way less than they were a year ago.
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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 05, 2011 11:30 am

@Chris_J wrote:
I dont see where any U grade would be acceptable in the hobby, unless it was a case fresh figure where they crack the case and grade the figure straight from it, like they do with modern stuff now. As for mailers, they do look good graded like AJ said, but I wouldn't worry about a U grade. That just brings up the therey of collecting a number instead of the figure. Its just a fad thats on the way of dying out quick with all the knowledge thats out there now on the effects it does to the hobby. Look at the current prices they bring. They are actually going for way less than they were a year ago.


This is my main view as well.

The other issue with me regarding carded figures that would be considered a "beater" is that some of them can have provenience that is either unknown or known by only a few. There are figures found very rarely if at all on certain cardbacks that some collectors would take a cracked bubble/damaged card.

Here is one example for myself. I'm not at liberty right now to say what makes this R2 special, but he's on a highly damaged card, some bubble lifting, and a diagonal crack across the bubble, but he proves a theory that I have. Had a U collector got him, this would have been destroyed.

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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 05, 2011 1:32 pm

Didn't AFA drop the U grade?

As for the topic im a bit in a similar situation,i got an vader 12 back with lifting bubble but good cardback.
Not sure what to do with it since i got an deal for one thats send out the get graded by AFA on my request trough the seller.

Lets be clear in against ripping off sealed bubbles from any cardback but a lifting or cracked one brings a huge dilema.
Like said either let it get graded to preserve what you got by encasing it youreself or by a grading company.
But then again i remember a Boba Fett that got removed from the card by AFA and got encased with card and figure seperate in one case.
That looked rather nice but there was a lot of commotion arround it.

Im thinking of doing the same if the vader tends to drop out of the lifting bubble,but only if he get his card asside of him.
Sure hope i dont get branded for thinking this :scratch:
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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 05, 2011 2:21 pm

I can see what you guys are saying, but I'm still torn. That R2 is great, but it's still attached to the card. What happens if it gets to the point where the figure is sticking halfway out of the bubble? My Vader isn't to that point, I'm just worried that it someday will be.

I guess the best solution, for me anyway, is to put it in an acrylic case and wait it out. It I sent the whole thing to AFA now, eventually the figure would fall out, and I'd be stuck with a loose figure rattling around a sealed MOC case. If I just put it in an acrylic myself, then when that happens I can just take it out and send it in loose to get cased.

Just to clarify, I'm not big on the grading side of AFA. I mean, I like to know about where a particular figure stands on the condition spectrum, but I have some that are 70's all the way to 85. But I really like it being sealed in there. It's like a better preservation system to me.

Anyway, now I'm totally curious about the mystery surrounding that R2! unsure
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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 05, 2011 2:23 pm

Not to add fuel to this already huge bonfire of a topic... but I got my own U grade story the other day as well.

I recently picked up a nice German Tri-logo Rebel Commando cardback (thanks to Joe's wonderful Tri site :end shameless plug: Wink ) where the bubble had literally been sliced open, but still attached to the cardback.

Upon receiving the cardback, it looked to me like it was in excellent shape. The bubble was probably dinged, but in no way shape or form should it have been sliced open to remove the figure. The seller had a lot of tri cardbacks with sliced bubbles, so I can only assume that he sent them all in for U grading. Or at the very least graded the figure. The German Tri RC isn't exactly the rarest figure in the world, but I would've paid decent money for the MOC example (probably at a slight premium from a regular tri, just because I want it), bubble dings or not.

Anyway, here is the cardback now. I reassembled the bubble to hold a loose RC that I had and IMO, it looks like it would've been a very nice MOC.

Judge for yourself:
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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 05, 2011 3:26 pm

I quote that Old Fossil "You must do what you feel is right of course"At the end of the day AFA is a personal preference. It's your figure and decision. You are going to have to be the one who looks at it sitting in your collection everyday, not all of us. If you think sending it in is the best choice I really don't think anyone would condemn you for it.
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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 05, 2011 4:12 pm

Just to answer the comments on bubbles that might be going bad, you can preserve them with AFAs help:

Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? DSC05714

Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? Yoda_Harbert_ESB_Front


Now if you have a MOC thats falling apart, still why the need to "U" grade it? Why grade it at all? Leave it be. If its comes off then it comes off. No need to U grade it.

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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 05, 2011 5:49 pm

@DarthTad wrote:
I've been reading up on the links about why a U-Grade is bad for the hobby. From what I can tell, most of you guys are of the opinion that it indeed is negative for the hobby we all love. And I agree. But, thinking today, I wonder if there are instances when it would be acceptable, and not detrimental to collectors?

For instance, I remember a topic a few months back where someone had purchased a mail-away that had been U-Graded. For the life of me, I can't remember what figure it was, or who bought it. I do remember that several people were upset that he had supported U-grading by purchasing a U-graded figure. I have no problem with this. If it's in a sealed, plain white mailer, can it really be enjoyed without breaking the seal and displaying it?

Also, is there a point when a MOC figure becomes so mangled that U-Grading is the only way to properly preserve it? For instance, what if it's a severely cracked bubble, and the figure could possibly fall out on it's own? Or what if it's a cut card?

Just thought I'd start a good conversation and see what you all think.

Also, I'm not familiar with how AFA U-Grading works. Do you get to keep the packaging they remove the figure from? Or is it just discarded? Can you have a card encased and displayed with the loose figure the same way you can have a mailer box and catalog included in the case?

The real reason I'm asking is that I have a MIM LL Vader that is completely beat to hell. The card is demolished, and the bubble is cracked, and I'm worried that it will eventually deteriorate to the point that I'll have a loose figure and a beat up card rattling around in a Star Case. If not a U-Grade, is there a better option?

Thanks fellas, I'm looking forward to hearing what y'all think!

Hmmmmm......... high chances it was me , several months ago I bought a Toltoys Mailer 4-LOM AFA U85, , the box was opened to take out the action figure that was kept in his original seal bag, yes you remember correctly, as any AFA U grade item, it began a discussion that at the end of the day it didn´t end up in nothing as half of the members agreed that the item look better that way ( in thisn particular case) and the other half was upset because I bought it and they said I was supporting U grading, somebody else send it to AFA as I bought from ebay, by the way the auction end up really really low !! ( That is why I bought it) ..... also during that time, I bought a Lili Ledy Cut card jawa (100% original), and someone suggested me to send it to AFA for the U grade, of course everybody react to that post ,and it started again a big discussion, gladly I found a new house to that figure as I sold it to sacko, by the way I sold the Toltoys Mailer 4-LOM AFA U85 to a member of this forum....LOL!!!

On the other hand I agree with John, now AFA is making ( per request) special cases for action figures with damage bubbles, so MOC items are saved.; I just bought a LL MOC chief chirpa with a little crack on one side of the bubble, I¨m sure I will ask for this kind of cases!


. A quick 100% real fact that nobody want to think about it..... all MOC´s will become loose!!! Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 05, 2011 11:42 pm

@Darthberizing wrote:
Just to answer the comments on bubbles that might be going bad, you can preserve them with AFAs help:

Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? DSC05714

Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? Yoda_Harbert_ESB_Front


Now if you have a MOC thats falling apart, still why the need to "U" grade it? Why grade it at all? Leave it be. If its comes off then it comes off. No need to U grade it.

I saw your pictures of the VC Jawa recently when I was trying to get caught up on the "latest finds" thread, but I never noticed that additional acrylic to keep it from falling out the bottom of the bubble! That's a sweet idea!

I think I've made up my mind, and I plan on just throwing the Vader in an acrylic case. And if it ever falls out, or the bubble falls off, I'll send it all to AFA and have a cool display made with the loose figure separate from the MIM card.

Thanks to all of you for your input! Hands down this is the best forum for vintage on the web. You guys know your sheeit.

And for the record, merlin, I would want a plain white mailer to be U-graded, too. Those displays look super cool. And if someone has to open the tape seal to get it out, why not let AFA do it. :pitch fork:
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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 06, 2011 8:46 am

BTW - There is nothing wrong with using a little Saran Wrap. Go around the MOC one time and pull it taut. Let it overlap on the back. If you pull it nicely, it looks fine (expecially in a star case) and the bubble is going to have a ton of support.

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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 06, 2011 9:11 am

@Darthberizing wrote:
BTW - There is nothing wrong with using a little Saran Wrap. Go around the MOC one time and pull it taut. Let it overlap on the back. If you pull it nicely, it looks fine (expecially in a star case) and the bubble is going to have a ton of support.

I can vouch for that. Some nice MOC's I got from John have some cracked bubbles but with the saran wrap and star case they look great.
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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 06, 2011 2:35 pm

AFA did a great job on protecting those bubbles!
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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 07, 2011 2:54 am

DARTHTAD..... I found that pic of that TOLTOYS 4LOM MAILER BOX .... I DON`T HAVE IT NOW..

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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 07, 2011 8:27 am

I wasn't really going to post in here, have obvious feelings on the matter but the mailers are hard to work out IMO.

On one hand we all agree they look great displayed next to the box + with their paperwork..but who is to say that there isn't someone out there looking for sealed ones?

I see Mailers as somewhat of a lesser crime as MOCS can still be viewed + displayed perfectly fine without taking the figure out, you can see the card, the figure , the weapons etc- Mailers we can't see anything and sometimes we need to know what was included in them - the answer? A sealed one had to have been opened to verifiy the contents.

Hard one to call - I say exhaust your options and search for an opened one first and then go for the U grade if its all you can find.
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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 07, 2011 8:29 am

Oh and if you do find a sealed one - perhaps just offer it up for trade to someone who wants it sealed in return you might get a nice opened one if you only want to see inside it Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 07, 2011 10:07 am

I've got a mailer as well

Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? Nein_Numb_Toltoy_Mailer


Now I have to say that I did this because a plain white box has no visual appeal to me. However, Joe does have a point that i could've seeked out one already opened but complete for my display. I also didnt care less that the grade would be a U. I wanted the box and figure to be prominent and nothing more. I think, if there is a single time I'll say it's okay to open a box, moc, or baggie, it would be the plain white mailer figure box. But, I'll say that Joe's suggestion is a good one. Try to seek out an opened one first.

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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 07, 2011 10:30 am

It's a tough one to call isn't it John, especially when you stand on the side of not opening things..

I don't know what the market is like for sealed mailers tbh but if it was a MOC or a MISB piece you know someone would be upset to see its tape slashed just to view it in acrylic.

There was also the early bird envelope thing that was U graded - some said back then that they were looking high and low for a sealed one and it was a bad move to get one U graded.

There is a similar argument for shipping crates - those things are just brown boxes, from a historical point of view a sealed one is an amazing find, but that also means if you want to keep it sealed its :

Hard to display
Possibility of losing the entire contents in the case of a flood or house damage etc.

So if you have a sealed case of SW 12 backs - do you open or not? Let them rot in a brown box with little to no appeal to 90% of people or open and have a lot of factory fresh examples floating around out there?
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PostSubject: Re: Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified?   Is There Ever a Time When a U Grade is Justified? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 07, 2011 3:30 pm

Joe - I'll touch on each example you mentioned. MOCs are too obvious so I'll pass on the common sense.


MISB - 100% leave alone. Pllaysets , Vehicles, etc.. are all available easily loose first off. Secondly they have art on there own so they have eye appeal.

EB Envelope - Piecing together a complete on can be a little time consuming. I couldnt find one piece of paper and gave up. Others do the same. However, there is NO reason to open a new one up. There arent that many and frankly I think it's an iconic piece of SW toy history. Leave it alone.

EB Kit - Now you'll sharpen your knives but if someone opened one to display it, I'd actually not be to upset. Finding a complete one is tedious and can be time consuming. You may also have a DT in there so you really don't know what you own. Im not condoning or condeming on this.

Shipping Crates - I think a sealed crate is pretty cool but they are unappealing for the most part and I'd bet the cardboard on cardboard isn't the best thing either. However, it's a judgement call. We collect the toys themselves for the most part. For the community as a whole, I think having 6 MISB TIE Fighters go to 6 collectors has more value than 1 unopened box of 6. Just my opinion.

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