@wbobafett wrote:

LL factory changed the figures paint so often that you cant tell wether its MIM or LL if you hold it in your hands loose!

Exactly what I understood to be the case, hence my original comment about the U90 MIM vader.
If it has Ledy accessories & had been taken off the card by the owner before being sent into AFA as a loose figure, how could they possibly tell whether it was MIM or Ledy? Answer they can't. So I guess under those circumstances it would have been graded as a Ledy.

@cantina_patron wrote:

If it has Ledy accessories & had been taken off the card by the owner before being sent into AFA as a loose figure, how could they possibly tell whether it was MIM or Ledy? Answer they can't. So I guess under those circumstances it would have been graded as a Ledy.

That makes sense, CP!

@cantina_patron wrote:

@wbobafett wrote:

LL factory changed the figures paint so often that you cant tell wether its MIM or LL if you hold it in your hands loose!

Exactly what I understood to be the case, hence my original comment about the U90 MIM vader.
If it has Ledy accessories & had been taken off the card by the owner before being sent into AFA as a loose figure, how could they possibly tell whether it was MIM or Ledy? Answer they can't. So I guess under those circumstances it would have been graded as a Ledy.

Why do you care exactly??? Are you kind of AFA collector???...I hope not

Afa grading is full of missunderstanding and failures!

One example: Have you ever heard of one of the graders beeing a great/well knowledge or "first class" loose collector???

Nooooooo???? Comon...that cannot be??? (attention.....sarcasm!!!)

.....its the truth: Afa has very less clue about variants and loose!!

I they had...a known name like Rog or others (i.e. Mirco, Lee, Kenneth, Carlos and for LL figures especially Ozio and Cristian) would be one of the graders!!!

@Chris_J wrote:

I cant say thats fact 100%, but I know we were discussing it the other day on how to tell them apart. I just cant see a difference in it myself to be honest.

Marco, that should answer your question, cant say 100% fact. If they were MIM and packaged in Mexico, then how is it that some of those figures actually have Kenner weapons and accessories? Thats the point I was trying to get across.

As for AFA, all their employees cant collect what they grade. Thats what was said over on RS one time, anyway. So they wouldnt know a MIM from a Ledy anyway.

@Chris_J wrote:

If they were MIM and packaged in Mexico, then how is it that some of those figures actually have Kenner weapons and accessories? Thats the point I was trying to get across.

Overstock Kenner weapons were shipped to the Lili Ledy factory and packed together with Lili Ledy figures on “Made in Mexico’ cards which were subsequently exported (back) to the US.

That's why you sometimes have Kenner, sometimes Ledy weapons for the same MIM figure.

@Dr Dengar wrote:

@Chris_J wrote:

If they were MIM and packaged in Mexico, then how is it that some of those figures actually have Kenner weapons and accessories? Thats the point I was trying to get across.

Overstock Kenner weapons were shipped to the Lili Ledy factory and packed together with Lili Ledy figures on “Made in Mexico’ cards which were subsequently exported (back) to the US.

That's why you sometimes have Kenner, sometimes Ledy weapons for the same MIM figure.

MIM figurs were packed in Mexio???

I doubt that very much! Are you sure??

@wbobafett wrote:

Why do you care exactly??? Are you kind of AFA collector???...I hope not

Afa grading is full of missunderstanding and failures!

One example: Have you ever heard of one of the graders beeing a great/well knowledge or "first class" loose collector???

Nooooooo???? Comon...that cannot be??? (attention.....sarcasm!!!)

.....its the truth: Afa has very less clue about variants and loose!!

I they had...a known name like Rog or others (i.e. Mirco, Lee, Kenneth, Carlos and for LL figures especially Ozio and Cristian) would be one of the graders!!!

Hi Wolff, I don't care for AFA items either.
I will admit that I have a couple of graded MOC's (but only because they were cheaper than I've seen ungraded examples sell for. )
I have read numerous threads here & on other forums about the inconsistencies in AFA's grading. I believe a member here even has a loose graded figure with a repro weapon. WTF? I know they don't grade weapons, but they must be authentic!
I just wandered why they distinguish between MIM & Ledy when the figures are the same.

@wbobafett wrote:

MIM figurs were packed in Mexio???

I doubt that very much! Are you sure??

I wasn't in the factory at that time, so off course I am not sure.

The poorer quality of the cards made me think so.

Labour costs were also much cheaper in Mexico compared to the US. This might even compensate for the much bulkier transport of carded figures instead of loose figures to the US.

Just my thoughts.

What are yours?

@wbobafett wrote:

Afa grading is full of missunderstanding and failures!

One example: Have you ever heard of one of the graders beeing a great/well knowledge or "first class" loose collector???


.....its the truth: Afa has very less clue about variants and loose!!

I they had...a known name like Rog or others (i.e. Mirco, Lee, Kenneth, Carlos and for LL figures especially Ozio and Cristian) would be one of the graders!!!

I can't remember where I read it or if it is true but AFA graders are NOT allowed to be collectors they are completly 'independent'

@Dr Dengar wrote:

@wbobafett wrote:

MIM figurs were packed in Mexio???

I doubt that very much! Are you sure??

I wasn't in the factory at that time, so off course I am not sure.

The poorer quality of the cards made me think so.

Labour costs were also much cheaper in Mexico compared to the US. This might even compensate for the much bulkier transport of carded figures instead of loose figures to the US.

Just my thoughts.

What are yours?

Maybe you're both right?

JohnA wrote:

Perhaps this will help. At C3 there was a presentation on the Lili Ledy factory. A number of slides had been unearthered and made into a slide show. These slides must have either been done as part of a QC inspection or as a presentation to send to Kenner to show the factory. It was definitely the LL factory as one slide had the outside of the factory and a giant LL logo was visible. There was also another of a truck bearing the LL logo. Amongst these pics were one of a sole Kenner carded 79C Ewok, Lumat, and another was a shot of a whole pile of the same carded figure. I know that was a figure that was exclusively MIM but deductive reasoning would say that if that was shown being produced on a Kenner cards others were also made in the same factory.

From "Made In Mexico" Carded Jedi Figures -are they LL?

&

@nextoy wrote:

I was asked to comment on this thread if I could contribute. I'll admit to having no focus on LL product, and limited knowledge on it myself. But I can comment on the point above.

As many of you know, I was Marketing Research Director and worked in the corporate office in Cincinnati from 1982-92. We had a plant on Robertson Avenue in the Oakley subdivision, about 8 miles from the downtown office.

By the early 80s, about the only real production that still took place in Oakley was the manufacturing of Play-Doh compound. However, a lot of re-packing, particularly of action figures also took place there. While some figures were fully produced and packed out into case assortments at their off-shore factories, Kenner also used the Oakley location for overflow pack-out when needed. Figures were sometimes shipped in bulk cases (a box of nothing but 100 uncarded figures in unsealed plastic bags) from factories in Hong Kong or Mexico to Oakley. Lines would then be set up to put the figures and bubbles on cards, then create the assorted pack-outs to ship to retailers.

So, it is possible that figures and weapons were mixed in this re-packing process. I can assure you, no one at Kenner at the time was aware of that of the difference, or that it would be considered a variation by collectors in later years. Parts were parts.

From LILI LEDY VARIATIONS Q & A THREAD.

Rog.

Thanks Rog, for providing us a two-sided view about this topic.

+ points on your way!

@aussiejames wrote:

I can't find the thread I'm looking for- this will do

MIM figures are not U graded as Ledy

I found the thread : https://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t3549-lili-ledy-mim-yoda-afa-question?highlight=Yoda

Bit late maybe but the figures with Mexico COO among MOTU where made in USA to be sold in Mexico, if I remember right. Might be the same with MIM, but I don't know.
Then the company Los Amos did the real Mexican ones.

I had Logray after all    The light stripes threw me, but the matt cardback should have convinced me.  Bubble was lifted so I opened it more to make sure

Congrats on the full MIM run, James!!  

Curious, which figures came with obvious Ledy accessories?

IMO most (90%+) MIM figures have Ledy accessories. Squidhead has the 'disputed' Ledy gun. My Biker does not have the dark grey blaster   all others are Ledy as far as I can tell.

AJ you said about the matte cardback, is that something for certain MIM's? I have a load of cardbacks that I'm sorting out for a friend and there is two Chief Chirpa MIM's in the pile, one is matte and one is glossy?

Congrats on completing the Run AJ  

Just my opinion/observations: there is no hard and fast 'rules' ie. not all MIM & Ledy cards have the hole.
Most MIM cards are whiter cardstock and matt finish on the back.  ( perhaps some Kenner have matt backs ) Certainly some MIM have glossy backs ie. on some Vader & Chirpa.  I don't own a larger sample size to make any generalizations in regards to 65 or 77 A, B ..... backs.

Congrats AJ on completing your MIM carded run.

The big question is what is next......?

@aussiejames wrote:

@aussiejames wrote:

I can't find the thread I'm looking for- this will do  

MIM figures are not U graded as Ledy

I found the thread : https://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t3549-lili-ledy-mim-yoda-afa-question?highlight=Yoda

Continuing with the grading labels:





confused yet???  So Ledy ( & MIM ) Vaders are Hong Kong yet can also be no CoO as indicated by -- by AFA.   :scratch:

Another --



so Mexico both HK & --
Ledy both HK & --
 

edit: OK http://swspaceclub.com/wbobafett/coo-guide-3-0/anh/darth-vader/#a

This was a great read   

Congrats to you AJ on completing your MIM cards   

Great photos AJ, showing exactly that grading company's don't have a clue of what their doing!
this is why I don't believe in grading, I love to keep my figures loose and free for me to grab and admire.   
to me grading is nothing but a money making scheme, just save your money to add more pieces to your collection.

Added some 'variants'
light vs dark stripe

cloth vs 'pleather' belt

finally a dark blaster

Congratulations on scoring those MIM variants AJ.