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snaggletooth
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PostSubject: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 19, 2011 7:23 am


Hi all, you know I've not been at this long but I have a few theories on the production of loose figures, please add any facts you have to back me up or correct me if I'm wrong. Please add any facts/thoughts/theories on the subject you may have.

Im thinking that all the molds where originally made in hong kong, latter some of these where sent out to china who adjusted the molds to cover the HK over with the raised bar.

Some of the molds from HK and china where then sent to PBP where they adjusted them to wipe out the COO's and create the scar COO's.( HK in MIHK, Macau from MIMacau, the china on the raised bar and the HK from HK) for the figs that have smoothed over COO's(MIHK, HK & blank raised bar) this could have been done by the HK, MIHK & china factories before sending them to PBP/Palitoy/meccano. PBP could also have done this though and just got better at it after practising on the Scar figures we see today.

I also think PBP passed on some of there molds to ledy, who got the rest from HK & China.

Am I anywhere near? Scott



Last edited by snaggletooth on Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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aussiejames
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 19, 2011 9:27 am

"Im thinking that all the molds where originally made in hong kong" but if other molds were made ie. Toptoys, Uzay... it's plausible that some molds were made elsewhere?
http://www.klimko.com/links.php?58396


Last edited by aussiejames on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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snaggletooth
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 19, 2011 9:54 am

@aussiejames wrote:
"Im thinking that all the molds where originally made in hong kong" but if other molds were made ie. Toptoys, Uzay... it's plausible that some molds were made elsewhere?

Was uzay bootlegs? Do toptoys figurers have any resemblance to the HK figs or are they different moulds, most have no detail at all yes or is that toltoys? Apart from the droids line are glasslite the same as HK figs?
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snaggletooth
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 20, 2011 6:28 am

@aussiejames wrote:
"Im thinking that all the molds where originally made in hong kong" but if other molds were made ie. Toptoys, Uzay... it's plausible that some molds were made elsewhere?

Thanks for your thoughts James, are there any molds you can think of that don't match up to the HK molds, can you think of any figs that haven't got clones(-COO) apart from the Ledy Biker? Toptoys?

Has any one got any Links to any good production threads?
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 20, 2011 7:20 am

Hard to say really (I think)

If you look at the original 12, Vader and Stormtrooper both had Japan COO's. I'd venture to guess the molds were made for each manufacturing plant.

And to answer a few other questions:

1)Uzays are 100% bootlegs. No affiliation with Kenner as evidenced by them calling it "Starswar". I also don't remember Blue Stars and Headman figures from the Kenner line LOL

2) Top Toys mold are different in the fact that they have no peg holes! The feet of the figures are solid. Have fun displaying those...

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jason11272stacey
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 20, 2011 9:06 am

hi john buddy you ok mate Wink

i have a question for you that you might be able to help me with you say uzay are bootleg and yes you are right Smile

but where did Blue Stars and Headman figures come from as they were not in any of the starwars films

i heard there was a turky starwars rip off film so i thought that they might be in that but i watched this film on you tube and they are not in it

any idea why uzay made blue stars and headman

unsure

thanks jase
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 20, 2011 9:21 am

Jase

I have NO idea where they came from. I've tried to look it up, but there doesnt appear to an explanation.

If I had to venture a guess, I'd say Blue Stars is just a bad translation of a Blue "Star" Wars person and Headman is supposed to infer a leader. Like he was the "Head" of the guards or something. I don't know though, just my thought process.

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jason11272stacey
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 20, 2011 10:49 am

yes john it does seem strange that uzay made these figures

as for the headman he does look like a erg but in a diferent collour so he could be head of the erg's

who knows i suppose because they are bootlegs thay can make whatever figure they want

just would be nice to know if they were from a film but it's not looking like it Stormie Smiley

cheers john

have to do some more reserch to see if can find out more study

but then again the answer might not be there to be found lol!

jase
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pomse2001
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 20, 2011 11:50 am

Very interesting thread.

I think it could be cool if we could ID which moulded and stamped figures there was on each card.
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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 20, 2011 2:26 pm

@Darthberizing wrote:

2) Top Toys mold are different in the fact that they have no peg holes! The feet of the figures are solid. Have fun displaying those...

I understood that Top Toys moulds were made from Kenner figures, similar like the way you make a footprint with your foot.

Funny detail: After injecting hot liquid plastic into a mould it solidifies. During the subsequent cooling down process, the newly cast figure shrinks a bit. As Top Toys used Kenner figures as the starting material for their moulds, the figures produced from them are a bit smaller than the Kenner line.

Loose figure production  Robot-Matryoshka-dolls
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aussiejames
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 20, 2011 6:50 pm

Latter released ROTJ figure were Taiwan or no COO, therefore no Hong Kong molds.
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GanjaFett
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 21, 2011 1:08 am

Headman is an ERG with different paint and they added the shield and sword. I read just recently that the Headman was supposed to be some type of executioner in Turkey. Like the guy who chopped your head off. I believe there's a thread on RS that discussed it (me=too lazy to search) .

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snaggletooth
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 21, 2011 4:20 am

@Darthberizing wrote:
Hard to say really (I think)

If you look at the original 12, Vader and Stormtrooper both had Japan COO's. I'd venture to guess the molds were made for each manufacturing plant.

And to answer a few other questions:

1)Uzays are 100% bootlegs. No affiliation with Kenner as evidenced by them calling it "Starswar". I also don't remember Blue Stars and Headman figures from the Kenner line LOL

2) Top Toys mold are different in the fact that they have no peg holes! The feet of the figures are solid. Have fun displaying those...

Thanks for your answers John

I think that Takara where probably molded at Takara but if the other molds where made for each manufacturing plant why didn't they change the COO's rather that scar them over?

@Dr Dengar wrote:
@Darthberizing wrote:

2) Top Toys mold are different in the fact that they have no peg holes! The feet of the figures are solid. Have fun displaying those...

I understood that Top Toys moulds were made from Kenner figures, similar like the way you make a footprint with your foot.

Funny detail: After injecting hot liquid plastic into a mould it solidifies. During the subsequent cooling down process, the newly cast figure shrinks a bit. As Top Toys used Kenner figures as the starting material for their moulds, the figures produced from them are a bit smaller than the Kenner line.

Loose figure production  Robot-Matryoshka-dolls

Very interesting that Marco, I think the same method applies to the Ledy Fett.

@aussiejames wrote:
Latter released ROTJ figure were Taiwan or no COO, therefore no Hong Kong molds.

Also very interesting James, where all latter released ROTJ figures Taiwan or no COO? Can you give an example of one of the NO COO figures. I have a H.K lando skiff that came of a Palitoy ROTJ Tri Card.

This fits in with my theory though. Maybe HK made all the original Molds apart from Takara and then passed them on to PBP when they stopped production half way through the ROTJ line?
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 21, 2011 4:39 am

"Also very interesting James, were all latter released ROTJ figures Taiwan or no COO?"
as far as I know all 1984 released figures:
1.The Emperor
2.AT-ST Driver
3.B-Wing Pilot
4.Han Solo (In Trench Coat)
5.Princess Leia Organa (In Combat Poncho)
6.Pruneface
7.Rancor Keeper
8.Teebo
9.Wicket W. Warrick


none are Hong Kong
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snaggletooth
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 21, 2011 4:48 am

@aussiejames wrote:
"Also very interesting James, were all latter released ROTJ figures Taiwan or no COO?"
as far as I know all 1984 released figures:
1.The Emperor
2.AT-ST Driver
3.B-Wing Pilot
4.Han Solo (In Trench Coat)
5.Princess Leia Organa (In Combat Poncho)
6.Pruneface
7.Rancor Keeper
8.Teebo
9.Wicket W. Warrick


none are Hong Kong

I never know that mate, Thanks
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aussiejames
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 21, 2011 5:03 am

The last few from 1983 also have no Hong Kong versions:
12.Rebel Commando
13.Ree-Yees
14.Squid Head
15.Weequay
16.8D8
17.Klaatu (In Skiff Guard Outfit) / Klaatu (Skiff Guard Outfit)
18.Nikto
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snaggletooth
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 21, 2011 5:24 am

@aussiejames wrote:
"Also very interesting James, were all latter released ROTJ figures Taiwan or no COO?"
as far as I know all 1984 released figures:
1.The Emperor
2.AT-ST Driver
3.B-Wing Pilot
4.Han Solo (In Trench Coat)
5.Princess Leia Organa (In Combat Poncho)
6.Pruneface
7.Rancor Keeper
8.Teebo
9.Wicket W. Warrick

none are Hong Kong

@aussiejames wrote:
The last few from 1983 also have no Hong Kong versions:
12.Rebel Commando
13.Ree-Yees
14.Squid Head
15.Weequay
16.8D8
17.Klaatu (In Skiff Guard Outfit) / Klaatu (Skiff Guard Outfit)
18.Nikto

Do you think these are HK factory (Not MIHK) versions that didn't include the COO or was it more likely they are from some where else, Where? Taiwan?

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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 21, 2011 6:30 am

From Craig's fantastic limelight:
Factory 1: Hong Kong (HN)
Production line code on cardback: “HN”
Figure's COO: “Hong Kong” - COO Removed for Palitoy releases


Factory 2: Taiwan (TJ)
Production line code on cardback: “TJ”
Figure's COO: “Made in Taiwan”



Factory 3: Hong Kong (HT)
Production line code on cardback: “HT”
Figure's COO: “Made in Hong Kong”



I'll use the Rancor keeper as an example- it can be found on a HN cardback is not a Taiwan figure so must be a Hong Kong (but no COO) figure. There is only one sculpt for every figure, yet there are significant mold variations- different belt buckles, pockets, fingers etc........ much more than just COO changes (raised bars, scars etc) so to me I think molds were produced outside of Hong Kong , so other factories were not just using old/modified ones.
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snaggletooth
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 21, 2011 8:40 am

@aussiejames wrote:
From Craig's fantastic limelight:
Factory 1: Hong Kong (HN)
Production line code on cardback: “HN”
Figure's COO: “Hong Kong” - COO Removed for Palitoy releases


Factory 2: Taiwan (TJ)
Production line code on cardback: “TJ”
Figure's COO: “Made in Taiwan”



Factory 3: Hong Kong (HT)
Production line code on cardback: “HT”
Figure's COO: “Made in Hong Kong”



I'll use the Rancor keeper as an example- it can be found on a HN cardback is not a Taiwan figure so must be a Hong Kong (but no COO) figure. There is only one sculpt for every figure, yet there are significant mold variations- different belt buckles, pockets, fingers etc........ much more than just COO changes (raised bars, scars etc) so to me I think molds were produced outside of Hong Kong , so other factories were not just using old/modified ones.

Thanks James This is all good mate, so the majority figs with No COO (smoothed over)apart from the ones mentioned in your previous couple of posts where produced in HK for Palitoy? like the no coo bossk and Lobot

I think your right about the molds being made in Macau/HK/MIHK factories but I also think PBP modified there molds that where originally supplied by 4 factory's, China/Macau/HK/MIHK.

A few of these modified molds where then given to Ledy. These where used in Ledy's production along side there other molds they'd been given from the other factory's China/HK (Leia,Luke bespin, C3PO)

Just my thoughts but its making perfect scence to me
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 21, 2011 8:56 am

I don't know if it's of any use but it's the only figure I have ever taken an interest in (and it doesn't even have a COO lol)

8D8:

US cards/bags have the COO = Made in Hong Kong
UK Bags have the COO = Made in Hong Kong
French Trilogo cards have the COO = Made in Macau
European Baggies have the COO = Made in Macau
Mexican (Ledy) cards = Made in Mexico


So for a ROTJ figure he has at least 3 different origins during a similar timeframe.

Interestingly some proofs can have the COO text = Made in Hong Kong or Taiwan as labelled herein.

I believe this was a piece of text which was formed to indicate figures were going to be produced in either of these two big factories and once produced the correct COO could be changed on the cardback- some production cards exist with this text so it was obviously overlooked during production.

That text above was later changed completely to Made in Hong Kong on my 79 back proof.
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snaggletooth
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 21, 2011 10:00 am

@Joe_O wrote:
I don't know if it's of any use but it's the only figure I have ever taken an interest in (and it doesn't even have a COO lol)

8D8:

US cards/bags have the COO = Made in Hong Kong
UK Bags have the COO = Made in Hong Kong
French Trilogo cards have the COO = Made in Macau
European Baggies have the COO = Made in Macau
Mexican (Ledy) cards = Made in Mexico


So for a ROTJ figure he has at least 3 different origins during a similar timeframe.

Interestingly some proofs can have the COO text = Made in Hong Kong or Taiwan as labelled herein.

I believe this was a piece of text which was formed to indicate figures were going to be produced in either of these two big factories and once produced the correct COO could be changed on the cardback- some production cards exist with this text so it was obviously overlooked during production.

That text above was later changed completely to Made in Hong Kong on my 79 back proof.

Thanks Joe thats very interesting about the proofs mate, I know nothing about cards but from what I have leared so far I think with regards to cards COO's anything is possible with all the overstock, especialy the last few years as PBP where sending to the UK/France/US. HK to UK/US and who knows who else where sending to elsewhere.
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 21, 2011 10:16 am

I think until the last period of production card COO's were probably 100% correct, we already know that Meccano made an effort in the early days of Trilogos to make sure the figures origins were properly labelled on the cards, unfortunately as time went on that process of sticking COO stickers onto cards probably became just another time consuming/extra cost job that was pushed to one side. (Not to mention that stickers can fall off or forget to be put on)

So I agree that the majority of the later released figures could potentially not match up to the COO on the card but I think the system was far more accurate than people give it credit for.

Out of curiosity, because I really can't recall any examples (or legit ones) - Has anyone actually got or has proof of a card stating one country yet containing a figure with the COO of another country?

For example a Made in Hong Kong card with the figure COO stating Taiwan?

I am pretty sure that even if these anomalies exist they are few and far between-A result of not updating already printed cards perhaps, change of location during production etc.

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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 21, 2011 10:20 am

@snaggletooth wrote:

know nothing about cards but from what I have leared so far I think with regards to cards COO's anything is possible with all the overstock, especialy the last few years as PBP where sending to the UK/France/US.

Don't forget that despite the modification to the COO on the figure, the cards were updated to show the correct COO, US cards were marked Made In Spain, French Meccano cards had Made In Spain stickers on them.

Out of interest-if anyone has a genuine "Made in Spain" figure on a Palitoy ROTJ card, what COO is on the card?
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 21, 2011 10:26 am

To get the ball rolling on the COO of the card not matching the figure-

I can confirm I have a Biker scout Trilogo with a Taiwan figure COO and a Hong Kong Card COO.

Will have to look at the rest of my figures to see what matches up.

With the packaging of the figure most likely happening in England by Palitoy it would probably make sense that the cards were produced ahead of time with a general HK COO in preparation for figures being shipped in from the main factory and when they came from elsewhere nobody cared to run a new batch of cards.


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snaggletooth
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PostSubject: Re: Loose figure production    Loose figure production  I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 21, 2011 10:26 am

Thanks again for the reply Joe, I'm glad that the system is quite accurate mate as its going to make my job a lot easier Cool
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