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 Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?

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Rawlin
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 14, 2011 8:48 pm

I just noticed there are still bits of chewie in that mold.

Limbs must have been made in same batch, I'm really interested in the assembly of the figures. Was there a system, like all the legs and arms from the same molding got to the same figure or could it happen that arms and legs fell of the plastic molding, and when reaching the bottom of the box one would get a possible mix of 2 batches?
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General Kahn
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 15, 2011 3:01 am

Quote :
I just noticed there are still bits of chewie in that mold.

Not sure if that's Chewy left in there, more likely a light dusting of rust, finally production moulds where made of steel and naturally are susceptible to rusting. ( have a quick browse at a post I did called "death of a Star Wars relic" now there's a rust related tragedy!

Quote :
Limbs must have been made in same batch, I'm really interested in the assembly of the figures. Was there a system, like all the legs and arms from the same molding got to the same figure or could it happen that arms and legs fell of the plastic molding, and when reaching the bottom of the box one would get a possible mix of 2 batches?

Wouldn't like to say for sure, that would be better answered by a Kenner employee, but I would generally expect that once they where taken from the mould and removed from the sprune tree, they where probably all whacked in a pile ( not literally ) for assembly, so probably quite random as to which figures got which arms and legs in respect to the individual moulds they came from. But that's just an assumtion on my part, wouldn't like to say for sure.

As for the plastic used, then I would agree with Chris, that it came from the same batch in general, naturally there may have been slightly different plastics used in different factories and possibly over time, Chewbacca of course was a figure that was in production right from the first 12 all the way through to the POTF releases. It's possible that in that time different plastics where used. ( by different, I'm swinging more towards minor differences in the chemical make up of the plastic, as apposed to a blatantly different plastic ). A good example of this would be the plastic used to make the card bubbles, ROTJ & POTF card bubbles appear to be far more susceptible to yellowing than the SW & ESB bubbles, most likely an inferior plastic. Also other factories producing figures probably used different plastics, as is evident, particularly in figures like PBP releases and such.

Quote :
LOL! Did your doctor actually say that? Mine would've sorry shit.

No, he didn't but, but he was definately thinking it!
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 15, 2011 6:00 am

@General Kahn wrote:

And Dr. Dengar, a few memourable quotes from Doctor's:

My Doctor said:
Quote :
No Alex I wont extend your sick note, get back to work you lazy bastard!

Dr. Evazen said:
Quote :
You'll be dead!

Dr.Dengar said:
Quote :
I fully agree with all those wise words

Jolly good!

lol!

Jabba de Hutt wrote:


This General is my kind of scum. Fearless and inventive
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 15, 2011 10:54 am

Just found a nice little comment from Tom Derby that can help alittle

"I agree with the degradation assessment. The only reason AFA labels the green limb Chewbacca and the green snake Yoda is because they were often considered acceptable variations by the collectible community. They do represent specific batches of plastic which have discolored, so it isn't completely random. For example, Chewbacca with green limbs is just about always found on ESB 41-back and 45-back cards. The only way these variations are labeled is if the discoloration (green) is solid on all 4 limbs or throughout the snake. If there is any evidence of brown and the discoloration is spotty, the item is labeled as standard and the discoloration is considered a flaw. This is certainly not a perfect system, but it is in place because many collectors want these 2 figures in their collections as variations."

So for each year they were made different batches were use to make the limbs, hence why some deteriate and others dont. So pretty much its a collector made varient because they want them to be as the last sentence states "many collectors want these 2 figures in their collection as variantions". That pretty much goes for any of the odd lucking limbs of any of the figures that have turned over the last 30 years. Its not a factory error, just bad plastic.

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Rawlin
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 15, 2011 11:17 am

Makes sense, if the community have a demand on them then I guess afa would grade them after what the community wants. Bad plastic is pretty much what I thought and have read as well. Mixed wrong.

Quote :
Naturally it goes without saying that some figures had seperate moulds for arms and legs, typically the ones with different coloured arms and legs.

Might be safe to say most figures then Razz
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pomse2001
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 15, 2011 11:22 am

I have another question I have this Chewbacca is this color difference also because of age ?

Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 Chewba10
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Rawlin
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 15, 2011 11:32 am

I think you might have yourself a green limb chewbacca in a couple of years.
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 15, 2011 11:35 am

Yes, like Rawlins said, it will be green in a few years. Its going through the process of turning now.
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pomse2001
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 15, 2011 11:35 am

@Rawlin wrote:
I think you might have yourself a green limb chewbacca in a couple of years.

Oh so this is what happens when they get green ?

I will keep an eye on him, then we will see if the guys are right about the age Very Happy in many years maybe.
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 15, 2011 12:01 pm

Quote :
Might be safe to say most figures then

I don't know I'm sure the larger number of figures actually have the same colour limbs, infact I'm gonna have to check.....
Here's the list of figures that DON'T have the same colourd limbs:

1. Han Solo
2. Han - Hoth
3. Lando Calrissian
4. Han Solo - Bespin
5. Lobot
6. 2-1B
7. Weequay
8. Lando - Skiff
9. Leia - Poncho
10. Han - Trench Coat
11. Rancor keeper
12. Barada
13. Han - Carbonite
14. Lando - General

And that's your lot, 14 out of 93, and even then, Han Hoth only includes the moulded legs version, which of course most weren't, and even the original Han, the earliest versions had white moulded legs same as the arms.

The Tom Derby quote is interesting, It's good that they have pretty much isolated the origins of the figures that turn. Still don't think they should grade it as a variation, regardless of what collectors want, a variation is a variation, that clearly isn't they've proven it. I'm so glad I never bought a Green snake yoda early on in my collection when they where all the rage and sold for small fortunes. Long before I'd concidered fadind and what not, I simple stayed away, because of a. price and b. the damn things never even looked green! If they'd have been the same like Greedo or something, I'd have whipped one up well fast!
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Rawlin
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 16, 2011 5:53 am

Yes but still 79 figures could be considered most in my opinion, it's far more the 14. Strange I've for some reason always thought it was 96 figures.
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 16, 2011 2:53 pm

Quote :
Yes but still 79 figures could be considered most in my opinion, it's far more the 14. Strange I've for some reason always thought it was 96 figures.

Sorry I've read it the wrong way round, I thought you'd ment most as in the most figures have different coloured arms and legs, My fault.

It is 96 really, most books I've read refer to it as 93, and I've noticed alot of collector's in general refer to there been 93 as well, always bugged the Hell out of me, because no matter how many times I counted, I always ended up with 96!
The reason why books and collectors refer to it as been 93 is because Kenner classed, the R2-D2 Sensorscope and R2-D2 Pop up Saber as variations of the original R2, the same applied to 3PO with removeable limbs, so as far as Kenner was concerned there was only 93.
Silly really, but that's the reason.
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 16, 2011 3:43 pm

Max Rebo Band makes the 3, dont it? Most collectors add them in even though they are considered a playset.
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Rawlin
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 16, 2011 3:55 pm

@General Kahn wrote:
Quote :
Yes but still 79 figures could be considered most in my opinion, it's far more the 14. Strange I've for some reason always thought it was 96 figures.

Sorry I've read it the wrong way round, I thought you'd ment most as in the most figures have different coloured arms and legs, My fault.

It is 96 really, most books I've read refer to it as 93, and I've noticed alot of collector's in general refer to there been 93 as well, always bugged the Hell out of me, because no matter how many times I counted, I always ended up with 96!
The reason why books and collectors refer to it as been 93 is because Kenner classed, the R2-D2 Sensorscope and R2-D2 Pop up Saber as variations of the original R2, the same applied to 3PO with removeable limbs, so as far as Kenner was concerned there was only 93.
Silly really, but that's the reason.

No worries, happens to us all, or at least me a lot of times.

Thanks for clearing up the 93. I dunno why those are considered variations, sure it is but they are way different.
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Rawlin
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 20, 2011 8:07 pm

Just hit my mind, if r2 and c3po is considered variations, why are not all there others as well, Leia for example it's 4 of her. But I guess they differ a lot more then what c3po and r2d2 do.
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 21, 2011 4:13 am

Quote :
Just hit my mind, if r2 and c3po is considered variations, why are not all there others as well, Leia for example it's 4 of her. But I guess they differ a lot more then what c3po and r2d2 do

Don't know chief, I guess it was simply a case of, R2 and 3PO where basically the same figure but with changes. think of it like the vinyl cape Jawa, once the dicision was made to axe the idea and replace it with the cloth cape that was it, no more vinyl cape. It was discontinued. Same with R2 and 3PO, they where avialable on ESB cards right up until the release of the Sensorscope and Removeable limbs version and that was it, they where discontinued. That's why niether made an appearance on ROTJ cards. Removable limbs 3PO was available on a POTF card but the sensorscope R2 wasn't, because he had been discontinued in favour of the new Pop up light saber version.
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 21, 2011 5:21 am

Complicated but makes sense Smile thanks.
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Hutthunter
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 02, 2011 8:12 am

@Joe_O wrote:
Most times people see pictures of normal brown chewies side by side with completely green limbed chewbaccas, sure it looks kinda funky but the picture below will prove it is discolouration.

Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 CHEWBACCA12

This cut card Chewie has two discoloured limbs and two "normal" coloured limbs, we don't know the reason for the discolouration/degradation but it is quite clearly just that. The brown limbs turn green over time.

IMO this is NOT the case. WHY would only TWO limbs turn Green and the other TWO stay brown?? If the figure was exposed to sunlight, ALL limbs should be either green OR brown. The grey limbs Boba Fett is definitely an existing version, and a factory-made (yes: faulty, or not perfect) type. Have you ever heard of the TAN LIMBS Klaatu? Do you think that is discolouration, too? HOW could possibly a dark grey turn to tan?...

I am afraid guys, you are on the wrong trail... Yellow and green bodies or limbs are fine, they are discoloration. But I do not agree with the rest (green limbs, green snake, tan limbs).
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 02, 2011 8:40 am

Oh brother, get a grip will you?

Fed up of trying to teach people common sense.

If you want to believe in it please do but I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO happy that I am not
the fool buying every weird and whacky colour variation for mega bucks just because someone
says it is a variant.

Do you know that in many cases limbs were MIXED during production? Yes that's right, bins full of pieces of figures all being pieced together during a separate part of the production process, 2 limbs from one shitty batch of plastic
mixed with 300 other limbs and you get the Chewbacca above. In my post I never mentioned the sun was the deciding factor for that Chewbacca, I said it has degraded over time, probably due to the plastic those limbs were made of being an inferior mix compared to the other limbs...

Do you think that Kenner released this Chewbacca as a variant? 1 green arm & leg and 1 brown? WTF!
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 02, 2011 9:05 am


C'est le Ton qui fait la Musique

Off course we don't have to agree with each other (thank God we have our own views on matters), but pls respect each other's point of view, in an open and constructive discussion. This is TIG not RS. Very Happy

BTW: I fully agree with Joe, I mean the contents of his message. Very Happy

Different pigments in the paint are expected to have a different vulnerability towards light induced and/or chemical degradation, two processes which can result in a colour shift during time (e.g. brown to green as the red pigment decays). Assuming the same light exposure during time (as in the shown example), the extent to which a pigment is prone to fading depends on the chemical structure of the pigment and the direct chemical ''environment'' which can accelerate reactions and therefore makes things worse. Think for instance about the concentration of neighboring plastifiers, or flame retardants within the plastic. Different batches of plastic might have slightly different compositions, and therefore the colour shift might process at different speeds.
In case you would mix up the limbs from two different batches (which might be common practice in the Kenner factories) you could end up with the mixed green/brown limbed Chewie.




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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 02, 2011 9:15 am

You can be a bad guy if you want Marco Laughing

I get annoyed because the answer is in front of peoples faces and they choose to ignore it.

I don't know if HuttHunter has been involved in forum life before now but if not then he has
to realise that these things have been contested and looked into for YEARS now and it's just
common sense, just because he may be new to the forum and has a lot of weird and wonderful
ideas about his figures and their colours does not mean he is correct in his opinions. This is not
new stuff, people have been laughing at people buying Green limbed Chewbaccas for over 10 years
now...
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 02, 2011 10:16 am

This is why I try to stay far away from these threads these days as I can. No matter what you say, your wrong. As Joe said, these things have been discussed for years and its all come down to the plastic deteriating. All plastic breaks down differently over the years, thats why you got these freaks with two limbs with one color. Simple as that.

And Marco, your right, this is TIG, not RS. I respect others opinions and listen to what they have to say, but when they come out and tell you your completely wrong on what you tell them and show them threads to where the answers are right in front of them to their questions, well it kinda gets to you. Know what I mean? One of the biggest things I learned from being in this hobby is to do research on what your collecting. No matter if is figures, vehicles, playsets, or the oddball stuff, you have to look into what your collecting and find all the info you can on it to understand everything on the subject. But you have to research it, whether here, RS, or on the SWCA, the info is out there, all you got to do is look. Just like you with the Ledy guide, your searching for all the info out there to make the guide as complete as you can. Your putting an effort into it by researching them. I dont mean no disrespect by this to anyone when I say this, but alot of people dont want to take the time to do their homework and hunt down the info on what they are talking about. They want to come in with all guns blazing and tell you dont know what your talking about when your just trying to help educate them in the hobby. I know I havent been in the hobby as long as some of the other guys have, but when I get told of a lead on some info on what Im intersted in, I go and check it out and ask more questions on it. I dont get rude and tell them they are wrong and my "theory" is the spoken word.

With that said, hope the few minutes of searching on the subject I did helps out with understanding deteriation and everything, but I could be wrong again. Rolling Eyes Too bad most of the pix are no longer available on most of these threads.
Theres at least 159 posts on the subject here.


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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 02, 2011 10:20 am

@Joe_O wrote:
Oh brother, get a grip will you?

Fed up of trying to teach people common sense.

Do you think that Kenner released this Chewbacca as a variant? 1 green arm & leg and 1 brown? WTF!

MAN, try to remain a man! OK? Just relax, and calm down!

Will ya?

ONE: Almost NONE of the variants were intended by Kenner. These were NOT official variants, except for some 'development' things or production modifications like 'wide stance' or 'narrow stance'. OF COURSE they were not released intentionally! Do you think I am stupid? Don't try to teach me, boy, I know enough. SO: there was a reason for these different limbs. Like you wrote: they were made of DIFFERENT quality plastic. So probably the poorer quality plastic tends to change color (in some cases, but not all of the cases). BUT that STILL means, that some figures were made with limbs of GOOD quality plastic limbs, SOME others were made with SHITTY quality limbs. IT STILL does make a difference between figure and figure!

IF you want to go for only 'OFFICIAL' variants (like the pale blue plastic Trilogo Fetts), fine!
BUT leave those alone, who are interested in production errors and anomalies. Was I clear enough?

Good.

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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 02, 2011 10:37 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:

C'est le Ton qui fait la Musique

Off course we don't have to agree with each other (thank God we have our own views on matters), but pls respect each other's point of view, in an open and constructive discussion. This is TIG not RS. Very Happy

BTW: I fully agree with Joe, I mean the contents of his message. Very Happy

Different pigments in the paint are expected to have a different vulnerability towards light induced and/or chemical degradation, two processes which can result in a colour shift during time (e.g. brown to green as the red pigment decays). Different batches of plastic might have slightly different compositions, and therefore the colour shift might process at different speeds.
In case you would mix up the limbs from two different batches (which might be common practice in the Kenner factories) you could end up with the mixed green/brown limbed Chewie.

I agree with this theory. But I FIND JOE'S LACK OF RESPECT DISTURBING. Also: why bother if someone likes these figures with different limbs? Everyone can decide what he/she likes. Of course it is stupid to spend a fortune on these 'variants' or 'freaks'. Who said I did? I got all mine for standard price.

So then perhaps the Ledy figures have different colors because of the shit quality of materials and production. STILL, they are interesting. For those who like them.
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PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 02, 2011 11:34 am

popcorn

My opinion of "variants" is well known by now I think. Besides a certain few obvious ones I think pretty much all "variants" are a matter of misguided opinion. It's old palstic and paint that is breaking down on a molecular level. Wait another hundred years or so and collectors will be fighting about whether or not the "Blob Variant" of Madine is a legit variant or not.

If someone wants to collect and showcase a hundred "different" Dengars they are more than welcome to do so and be happy with themselves. But don't get all pissy when someone points out the obvious that the "peach faced" version is really just a matter of the guy on the assembly line opening a different can of paint that day.

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Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?   Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation? - Page 2 I_icon_minitime

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Green Limb Chewbacca - Variation or Degredation?

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