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andy 34
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PostSubject: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2011 7:10 am

Hi There
I would like to ask a question about erased coo's.I think it seems general knowledge that the deep scar coo is from P.B.P. in Spain,the figures all smell the same so that would indicate the type of plastic used,but what about the raised bar no coo variants,where do they come from?,do they all come from the same factory because to achieve this in the moulding the coo area would have been machined away.I am talking about European variants here.
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Chris_J
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2011 11:42 am

The raised bar ones should be China. Thats what most I seen with the raised bar had, either blank or china stamped in them.
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snaggletooth
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2011 1:43 pm


Great question mate, the raised bar no coo luke bespin is the china baggie fig, the same thing could apply to the Luke X wing or rebel soldier. Has any one out there got any of these baggies?

What about the MADE IN, No coo figures like the Rebel commander. Where did they come from, made in Spain by PBP or in the MIHK factory?
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andy 34
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 01, 2011 9:31 am

Hi Guys,I think it would be good to find out approx where these figures were made,what i think happened is the moulds were all H.K. / TAIWAN coo's,then as cheaper manufacturing facilities were opened up say in China the moulds were shipped there, the HONG KONG was machined out of the mould and CHINA stamped into the machined area,then maybe as European markets and facilities opened up or manufacturing was secured this is possibly when the CHINA coo was again machined out but this time left blank.Same as when you have a figure with the coo smoothed over,what would have happened here is the mould would have been simply ground away and polished in the coo area.Does anyone on here have any moulds or mould information.I am asking the question because i am a Toolmaker and know first hand that when the factory i work in reaches full capacity,mould tools get moved to other facilities abroad who have the capacity to cope with demand,it would have been exactly the same then.
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andy 34
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 02, 2011 7:18 am

Hi Guys,i have been doing some more digging and found out that a production facility existed in northern France called "JOUETS PLASTIQUE ET METAL",which was based in Calais,this factory produced MECCANO figures for France and also made and packaged figures for PALITOY,also to throw a big spanner in the works i have also found out that figures were freely imported and exported between licensee companies to be packaged on their own cardback.I have a carded Boba Fett which is clearly a P.B.P. figure on a palitoy cardback with a double stemmed French bubble !!!!.I tried to upload an image onto this page but as of yet the solution to this has eluded me. :scratch:
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aussiejames
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 02, 2011 7:45 am

:scratch:
from this thread https://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t2972p15-walrus-man

@Panastur wrote:


¿Did Meccano manufactured action figures???? ....NO, Meccano imported figures from HK, Taiwan, Macau and Spain to package them on french blisters.

there's only 6 places in the world where action figures were produced;
Hong-Kong (lately called China when in decembre of 1984, Britain signs over Hong Kong to China), Taiwan, Macau, Mexico, Spain...and lately Brasil. No more.

JC Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 02, 2011 7:56 am

@aussiejames wrote:
:scratch:
from this thread https://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t2972p15-walrus-man

@Panastur wrote:


¿Did Meccano manufactured action figures???? ....NO, Meccano imported figures from HK, Taiwan, Macau and Spain to package them on french blisters.

there's only 6 places in the world where action figures were produced;
Hong-Kong (lately called China when in decembre of 1984, Britain signs over Hong Kong to China), Taiwan, Macau, Mexico, Spain...and lately Brasil. No more.

JC Wink

& Japan??
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Panastur
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 02, 2011 11:59 am

[quote="Tank1252"]
@aussiejames wrote:
:scratch:
from this thread https://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t2972p15-walrus-man

& Japan??

Of course Japan made some figures in the early days for their local market, but these are a particular example never meant to be exported.
In fact, i am not sure these Takara figures were produced in Japan. I have not much information on these figures but i recall a decade ago speaking with a Japanese collector saying Takara ordered his production to a taiwanee factory, probably for economical reasons.
So far, I have nothing concrete to confirm this info.

@andy 34 wrote:
Hi Guys,i have been doing some more digging and found out that a production facility existed in northern France called "JOUETS PLASTIQUE ET METAL",which was based in Calais,this factory produced MECCANO figures for France...

The french Meccano factory of Calais made a lot of things, ships, playsets and principaly packaging but they never manufactured action figures.
"JOUETS PLASTIQUE ET METAL" (Plastic and Metal Toys) was just a division of the Miro-Meccano Group established in Calais(nord of France) in charge of the "plastic and metal toys" line, but no action figures production, sorry...

EDIT: beside the fact that it was confirmed by numerous involved sources, all the action figures packaged by Meccano wear its manufactur's origin printed or stickered on the card. I saw every county printed, except France...


JC
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andy 34
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 02, 2011 7:30 pm

Hi guys,thanks for the replys,so what of the no coo's then,if the figures were still being made in HONG KONG why remove it from the mould tool,so what we are saying here is a tri logo figure with its coo removed may not be a "made in europe" variant at all,it may just be a made in HONG KONG and packed in Europe?. thinking
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aussiejames
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 02, 2011 7:54 pm

@andy 34 wrote:
Hi guys,thanks for the replys,so what of the no coo's then,if the figures were still being made in HONG KONG why remove it from the mould tool,so what we are saying here is a tri logo figure with its coo removed may not be a "made in europe" variant at all,it may just be a made in HONG KONG and packed in Europe?. thinking

EXACTLY, "why remove the HONG KONG etc ?" maybe for import tariff laws at the time?
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Craig T
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 02, 2011 8:19 pm

@aussiejames wrote:


EXACTLY, "why remove the HONG KONG etc ?" maybe for import tariff laws at the time?


You could well be right James mate - as one Hong Kong factory which made Luke Jedi figures actually made one version for the USA market and one for the European/Palitoy market.

Both version were made at the same time so there must of been a geniune reason why they would run two seperate figures lines. I use the word "version" as the Lukes have different boot sculpts as well as the COO differences.

The Hong Kong factory that I am talking about has "HN" wriiten on the back of MOCs

COO = "Hong Kong" on Kenner Luke Jedi Figures and NCOO on European/Palitoy Luke Jedi Figures.

I wonder if it did have something to do with the export laws between Hong Kong and britain at the time


Last edited by Craig T on Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:43 pm; edited 2 times in total
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andy 34
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 03, 2011 8:25 am

Hi Again,so can i ask the question about the fabled MECCANO Boba Fett and the assocciated figures unique to this line with no coo and unique copyright markings (Leia hoth, all in one line) where do these figures come from? why are they unique? study Thanks for all the info,this is proving to be very useful towards my collection.
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Panastur
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 03, 2011 9:29 am

@Craig T wrote:
Could Well be Aussie as one factory that made Luke Jedi figures actually made one version for the USA market and one for the European/Palitoy market.

Both version were made at the same time so there must of been a geniune reason why they would run two seperate figures lines. I use the word "version" as the Lukes have different boot sculpts as well as the COO differences.

The Hong Kong factory that I am talking about has "HN" wriiten on the back of MOCs

COO = "Hong Kong" on Kenner Luke Jedi Figures and NCOO on European/Palitoy Luke Jedi Figures.

I wonder if it did have something to do with the export laws between Hong Kong and britain at the time

Hi Craig T,

I never knew Australia produced action figures....¿¿?? Having the HK, Taiwan, Macao and Chinese factories nearer than us(Europe/USA), it seems not understansable that Australia spended extra bucks making their own tools.

I am not sure about that. ¿¿Do you have any special info on the subjet????

Thank you,

JC
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Panastur
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 03, 2011 9:53 am

@andy 34 wrote:
Hi Again,so can i ask the question about the fabled MECCANO Boba Fett and the assocciated figures unique to this line with no coo and unique copyright markings (Leia hoth, all in one line) where do these figures come from? why are they unique? study Thanks for all the info,this is proving to be very useful towards my collection.

Hi Andy,

Unfortunatly we have to accept that an action figure is not unique to a single factory and that a factory may produce 2 or 3 differents versions of the same figures. I have said several times that molds wear with time and production. High presured plastic injection erodes molds and after a long run production, molds should be changed or retooled. Also, the first figures produced are significantly different from the last figures produced with the same mold. Details tends to soft and loose a lot of sharpness in the details.

Somtimes a production is stopped to produce a new character and the old molds are transfered to another plant were the mold are retooled, especialy the COO. Sometimes molds are duplicated with a pantograph.

Bagged action figures are a good source of info, but sill complicated when the bag wears no marks.

JC
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snaggletooth
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 03, 2011 11:25 am

@aussiejames wrote:
@andy 34 wrote:
Hi guys,thanks for the replys,so what of the no coo's then,if the figures were still being made in HONG KONG why remove it from the mould tool,so what we are saying here is a tri logo figure with its coo removed may not be a "made in europe" variant at all,it may just be a made in HONG KONG and packed in Europe?. thinking

EXACTLY, "why remove the HONG KONG etc ?" maybe for import tariff laws at the time?

I'm not sure about that as there's also HK and MIHK figures on palitoy and meccano cards. Good question though.

@Panastur wrote:


Unfortunatly we have to accept that an action figure is not unique to a single factory and that a factory may produce 2 or 3 differents versions of the same figures. I have said several times that molds wear with time and production. High presured plastic injection erodes molds and after a long run production, molds should be changed or retooled. Also, the first figures produced are significantly different from the last figures produced with the same mold. Details tends to soft and loose a lot of sharpness in the details.

@andy 34 wrote:
Hi Again,so can i ask the question about the fabled MECCANO Boba Fett and the assocciated figures unique to this line with no coo and unique copyright markings (Leia hoth, all in one line) where do these figures come from? why are they unique? study Thanks for all the info,this is proving to be very useful towards my collection.

Hi Andy,

Somtimes a production is stopped to produce a new character and the old molds are transfered to another plant were the mold are retooled, especialy the COO. Sometimes molds are duplicated with a pantograph.

Bagged action figures are a good source of info, but sill complicated when the bag wears no marks.

JC

Hi JC, I think Craig was referring to Aussie James not Austrailia mate.

I think most figures are unique to single factorys mate but think your right about some the factorys producing 2 or more different variants, than would explain the slight COO differences on otherwise identical figures. In my eyes that slight difference makes them unique. Also you say "Also, the first figures produced are significantly different from the last figures produced with the same mold" this can be seen in some figures faded detail but it doesn't change the sculpt of the figure.

Hi Andy

I beleve that these figures "MECCANO Boba Fett and the assocciated figures unique to this line with no coo and unique copyright markings (Leia hoth, all in one line)" Where made in the HK factory specifically for Meccano to Distribute, like they did with the Luke Jedi and all the other PAL variants for Palitoy. I'm sure there will figures out there with the same date stamp but Hong Kong underneath.
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Craig T
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 03, 2011 2:37 pm

@Panastur wrote:
@Craig T wrote:
Could Well be Aussie as one factory that made Luke Jedi figures actually made one version for the USA market and one for the European/Palitoy market.

Both version were made at the same time so there must of been a geniune reason why they would run two seperate figures lines. I use the word "version" as the Lukes have different boot sculpts as well as the COO differences.

The Hong Kong factory that I am talking about has "HN" wriiten on the back of MOCs

COO = "Hong Kong" on Kenner Luke Jedi Figures and NCOO on European/Palitoy Luke Jedi Figures.

I wonder if it did have something to do with the export laws between Hong Kong and britain at the time

Hi Craig T,

I never knew Australia produced action figures....¿¿?? Having the HK, Taiwan, Macao and Chinese factories nearer than us(Europe/USA), it seems not understansable that Australia spended extra bucks making their own tools.

I am not sure about that. ¿¿Do you have any special info on the subjet????

Thank you,

JC


Hi JC,

Sorry for the confusion there... I was saying Aussie(James) could well be correct in his previous post.

I have updated my previous post.
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 04, 2011 1:20 pm

@snaggletooth wrote:
I beleve that these figures "MECCANO Boba Fett and the assocciated figures unique to this line with no coo and unique copyright markings (Leia hoth, all in one line)" Where made in the HK factory specifically for Meccano to Distribute, like they did with the Luke Jedi and all the other PAL variants for Palitoy. I'm sure there will figures out there with the same date stamp but Hong Kong underneath.
I’m probably reading this wrong, but just because there’s a similar figure to a no coo variant but with the “Hong Kong” mark doesn’t necessarily mean the no coo figure was made in Hong Kong. As JC said the moulds got shipped around to different factories so the no coo variant could have been made in a completely different country to its “Hong Kong” brother!

@Craig T wrote:
You could well be right James mate - as one Hong Kong factory which made Luke Jedi figures actually made one version for the USA market and one for the European/Palitoy market.

Both version were made at the same time so there must of been a geniune reason why they would run two seperate figures lines. I use the word "version" as the Lukes have different boot sculpts as well as the COO differences.

The Hong Kong factory that I am talking about has "HN" wriiten on the back of MOCs

COO = "Hong Kong" on Kenner Luke Jedi Figures and NCOO on European/Palitoy Luke Jedi Figures.

I wonder if it did have something to do with the export laws between Hong Kong and britain at the time
I personally don’t have too much faith in countries of origin printed on cardbacks from around ROTJ onwards (especially Trilogo’s, Palitoy’s and some later Kenner cards). IMO Kenner, Palitoy etc got a bit ‘lazy’ Wink (Meccano at least made a bit of an effort with their little stickers covering the printed coo & Kenner made a token gesture on a few of their cards too!). My main reason for doubting them is that a lot of no coo figures have been found in baggies where the coo on the baggie differs from the coo on the ROTJ cardback they can also be found on (in many cases there was no cardback printed with the ‘correct’ baggie coo). I’m with JC on baggies, their coo’s are generally ‘better’ IMO as they came directly from the figure manufacturers, not from the packing factory.

In Luke Jedi’s case, I don’t think the no coo variant is from Hong Kong. Hasn’t the no coo figure that’s on (HK) Palitoy & Trilogo cards been found in blue text Macau baggies. That to me would suggest that Luke’s production was moved over to Macau where they cleaned up & tweaked the mould. These figures then got packed on ‘Hong Kong’ cards which ‘Palitoy’ didn’t bother altering.

It would be interesting to know the exact reason why the figures had to have their coo’s removed but I’ve yet to see a definitive answer.

Rog.
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 04, 2011 3:12 pm

@_Rog_ wrote:
@snaggletooth wrote:
I beleve that these figures "MECCANO Boba Fett and the assocciated figures unique to this line with no coo and unique copyright markings (Leia hoth, all in one line)" Where made in the HK factory specifically for Meccano to Distribute, like they did with the Luke Jedi and all the other PAL variants for Palitoy. I'm sure there will figures out there with the same date stamp but Hong Kong underneath.
I’m probably reading this wrong, but just because there’s a similar figure to a no coo variant but with the “Hong Kong” mark doesn’t necessarily mean the no coo figure was made in Hong Kong. As JC said the moulds got shipped around to different factories so the no coo variant could have been made in a completely different country to its “Hong Kong” brother!

@Craig T wrote:
You could well be right James mate - as one Hong Kong factory which made Luke Jedi figures actually made one version for the USA market and one for the European/Palitoy market.

Both version were made at the same time so there must of been a geniune reason why they would run two seperate figures lines. I use the word "version" as the Lukes have different boot sculpts as well as the COO differences.

The Hong Kong factory that I am talking about has "HN" wriiten on the back of MOCs

COO = "Hong Kong" on Kenner Luke Jedi Figures and NCOO on European/Palitoy Luke Jedi Figures.

I wonder if it did have something to do with the export laws between Hong Kong and britain at the time
I personally don’t have too much faith in countries of origin printed on cardbacks from around ROTJ onwards (especially Trilogo’s, Palitoy’s and some later Kenner cards). IMO Kenner, Palitoy etc got a bit ‘lazy’ Wink (Meccano at least made a bit of an effort with their little stickers covering the printed coo & Kenner made a token gesture on a few of their cards too!). My main reason for doubting them is that a lot of no coo figures have been found in baggies where the coo on the baggie differs from the coo on the ROTJ cardback they can also be found on (in many cases there was no cardback printed with the ‘correct’ baggie coo). I’m with JC on baggies, their coo’s are generally ‘better’ IMO as they came directly from the figure manufacturers, not from the packing factory.

In Luke Jedi’s case, I don’t think the no coo variant is from Hong Kong. Hasn’t the no coo figure that’s on (HK) Palitoy & Trilogo cards been found in blue text Macau baggies. That to me would suggest that Luke’s production was moved over to Macau where they cleaned up & tweaked the mould. These figures then got packed on ‘Hong Kong’ cards which ‘Palitoy’ didn’t bother altering.

It would be interesting to know the exact reason why the figures had to have their coo’s removed but I’ve yet to see a definitive answer.

Rog.

Hi Rog,

Thanks for your reply. To see the big picture on the Hong Kong Luke Jedi you have to take in to account the various time-lines and stages of production.

The original NCOO Luke Jedi was from Hong Kong! If you you take a 65-A Palitoy and a Kenner 65-A you can confirm that both were factory carded in the "HN" Hong Kong factory. Here's comparision shot of the back of the card from my collection:

Erased coo's Compar12

In the Photo above look at the bootom RHS corner there you will see the factory stamp for the "HN" Hong Kong factory proving my point. (Much later on ... Palitoy cards lack this stamp as the figures were carded in the UK with figures not necessarly from "HN")

If you look at the figures contained within, then both are "HN" Luke but the Kenner contains a COO "Hong Kong" and the other is a NCOO Luke Jedi.

Erased coo's Compar11


If you get these cards and closely examine them then you will find that the Luke inside are different - you don't need to open the cards just look at the boots:

Erased coo's Hn_hee10


My Luke Jedi guide gives more info on the "HN" factory for these figures, but essentially both are different figures (The boots on the NCOO are a different sculpt) making the NCOO slightly shorter when you stand them side by side. However, both were carded in Hong Kong which is why you get the "HN" factory stamp on the back of the MOC.

So to summarise: Hong Kong DID create the first NCOO Luke Jedi.


Moving onwards...

As time past, Palitoy and other european factories were carding loose figures at their own premises and not where the figures were moulded in the far east. There are a number of reasons for this: to keep up with demand, it is cheaper to send a box of 100 loose figures than it would be to send them all carded (space restrictions), and towards the end of the vintage era in 84/85: to deal with the overstock when interest in the USA was dying down.


These MOCs do not have the factory's code stamped on the card. You right here that it could be any Luke Jedi inside regardless of the standard "Made in Hong Kong words stamped" on the front. This was because they use a single genric card. In the case of Palitoy these cards are the 65-B, 65-C, and Trilogos. (The Palitoy 65-A was always carded in Hong Kong).



I wasn't going to mention the Macau factory to avoid confusion in the post, but you are not correct.

There is more than one NCOO Luke (I have found at least three).

One (the first) is the original "HN" Luke, and another is a Macau Luke and you are getting confused because the Macau is from a Hong Kong "HN" mould. There are a few details I have noticed which I am working on in my own research, but if you compare a Macau and "HN" Hong Kong Luke side by side you should notice they are slightly different.


But you are right in that the NCOO moulds were sent from the "HN" factory to Macau (at a later stage of the vintage era) to increase production. However the figures were never carded at the Macau factory and can only be found on later production cards when european factories starting carding their own Lukes. Some Macau's have been found in the UK on Trilogo cards and on French cards. But these cards were produced much later than the original NCOO lukes on "HN" Palitoy factories.

I suppose it the later release of ROTJ lukes which can cause the most confusion in detemining the demographics of Luke Jedi figures. Especially the Tri-logo release which carded figures from 3 different far east locations all on one gereric card.



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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 04, 2011 9:01 pm

@Craig T wrote:
@_Rog_ wrote:
@snaggletooth wrote:
I beleve that these figures "MECCANO Boba Fett and the assocciated figures unique to this line with no coo and unique copyright markings (Leia hoth, all in one line)" Where made in the HK factory specifically for Meccano to Distribute, like they did with the Luke Jedi and all the other PAL variants for Palitoy. I'm sure there will figures out there with the same date stamp but Hong Kong underneath.
I’m probably reading this wrong, but just because there’s a similar figure to a no coo variant but with the “Hong Kong” mark doesn’t necessarily mean the no coo figure was made in Hong Kong. As JC said the moulds got shipped around to different factories so the no coo variant could have been made in a completely different country to its “Hong Kong” brother!

@Craig T wrote:
You could well be right James mate - as one Hong Kong factory which made Luke Jedi figures actually made one version for the USA market and one for the European/Palitoy market.

Both version were made at the same time so there must of been a geniune reason why they would run two seperate figures lines. I use the word "version" as the Lukes have different boot sculpts as well as the COO differences.

The Hong Kong factory that I am talking about has "HN" wriiten on the back of MOCs

COO = "Hong Kong" on Kenner Luke Jedi Figures and NCOO on European/Palitoy Luke Jedi Figures.

I wonder if it did have something to do with the export laws between Hong Kong and britain at the time
I personally don’t have too much faith in countries of origin printed on cardbacks from around ROTJ onwards (especially Trilogo’s, Palitoy’s and some later Kenner cards). IMO Kenner, Palitoy etc got a bit ‘lazy’ Wink (Meccano at least made a bit of an effort with their little stickers covering the printed coo & Kenner made a token gesture on a few of their cards too!). My main reason for doubting them is that a lot of no coo figures have been found in baggies where the coo on the baggie differs from the coo on the ROTJ cardback they can also be found on (in many cases there was no cardback printed with the ‘correct’ baggie coo). I’m with JC on baggies, their coo’s are generally ‘better’ IMO as they came directly from the figure manufacturers, not from the packing factory.

In Luke Jedi’s case, I don’t think the no coo variant is from Hong Kong. Hasn’t the no coo figure that’s on (HK) Palitoy & Trilogo cards been found in blue text Macau baggies. That to me would suggest that Luke’s production was moved over to Macau where they cleaned up & tweaked the mould. These figures then got packed on ‘Hong Kong’ cards which ‘Palitoy’ didn’t bother altering.

It would be interesting to know the exact reason why the figures had to have their coo’s removed but I’ve yet to see a definitive answer.

Rog.

Hi Rog,

Thanks for your reply. To see the big picture on the Hong Kong Luke Jedi you have to take in to account the various time-lines and stages of production.

The original NCOO Luke Jedi was from Hong Kong! If you you take a 65-A Palitoy and a Kenner 65-A you can confirm that both were factory carded in the "HN" Hong Kong factory. Here's comparision shot of the back of the card from my collection:

Erased coo's Compar12

In the Photo above look at the bootom RHS corner there you will see the factory stamp for the "HN" Hong Kong factory proving my point. (Much later on ... Palitoy cards lack this stamp as the figures were carded in the UK with figures not necessarly from "HN")

If you look at the figures contained within, then both are "HN" Luke but the Kenner contains a COO "Hong Kong" and the other is a NCOO Luke Jedi.

Erased coo's Compar11


If you get these cards and closely examine them then you will find that the Luke inside are different - you don't need to open the cards just look at the boots:

Erased coo's Hn_hee10


My Luke Jedi guide gives more info on the "HN" factory for these figures, but essentially both are different figures (The boots on the NCOO are a different sculpt) making the NCOO slightly shorter when you stand them side by side. However, both were carded in Hong Kong which is why you get the "HN" factory stamp on the back of the MOC.

So to summarise: Hong Kong DID create the first NCOO Luke Jedi.


Moving onwards...

As time past, Palitoy and other european factories were carding loose figures at their own premises and not where the figures were moulded in the far east. There are a number of reasons for this: to keep up with demand, it is cheaper to send a box of 100 loose figures than it would be to send them all carded (space restrictions), and towards the end of the vintage era in 84/85: to deal with the overstock when interest in the USA was dying down.


These MOCs do not have the factory's code stamped on the card. You right here that it could be any Luke Jedi inside regardless of the standard "Made in Hong Kong words stamped" on the front. This was because they use a single genric card. In the case of Palitoy these cards are the 65-B, 65-C, and Trilogos. (The Palitoy 65-A was always carded in Hong Kong).



I wasn't going to mention the Macau factory to avoid confusion in the post, but you are not correct.

There is more than one NCOO Luke (I have found at least three).

One (the first) is the original "HN" Luke, and another is a Macau Luke and you are getting confused because the Macau is from a Hong Kong "HN" mould. There are a few details I have noticed which I am working on in my own research, but if you compare a Macau and "HN" Hong Kong Luke side by side you should notice they are slightly different.


But you are right in that the NCOO moulds were sent from the "HN" factory to Macau (at a later stage of the vintage era) to increase production. However the figures were never carded at the Macau factory and can only be found on later production cards when european factories starting carding their own Lukes. Some Macau's have been found in the UK on Trilogo cards and on French cards. But these cards were produced much later than the original NCOO lukes on "HN" Palitoy factories.

I suppose it the later release of ROTJ lukes which can cause the most confusion in detemining the demographics of Luke Jedi figures. Especially the Tri-logo release which carded figures from 3 different far east locations all on one gereric card.



Twisted Evil Laughing



Hi Craig,

I meant to thank you in my previous post for your Luke Jedi guide which I've read through a few times Smile Thanks for both taking the time to write it and also for explaining about the different no coo Lukes and how they correspond to different cardbacks/factories/times here it this thread.
Whilst putting together my set of variants I have only saved a couple of no coo Lukes that are slightly different (HN no coo 1 & 2 on your guide), they are both the version with the shorter heel mould. To me they look as though they're from the same physical mould as the "Hong Kong" marked HN variant but with the length of the heel changed (the only difference I can see right now?). If I understand what you're saying correctly, the figure from the Macau baggie is the same (from a HN mould) but is back to the original large heel? (Looking closely now at the pictures I have, the heels do seem larger). I'm generally sceptical of small coo & minor mould differences signifying completely different countries of origin but it does happen so I'm happy to accept that there could be different no coo Luke Jedi's from HK & Macau.

Thanks as well for the explanation about the Hong Kong factories actually carding their figures! This is the important piece of info that I wasn't aware of, & it should go a long way to convince me of your classification of these Lukes. I always thought that the carding was done elsewhere and thus all Palitoy 65 backs for example could contain figures from different countries other than that marked on card. (Hopefully this info will help classify some other no coo figures too). (I don't mean to sound as though I'm disputing it, I am genuinely interested Wink but) how do we know that the Hong Kong factories carded their figures? (Are there other tells apart from the HN etc, unique bubbles, paperwork from the factory? etc?). If they stopped after Palitoy 65A's, did 'factory carding' stop around the same time for Kenner cards too? As I mentioned above I'm not 100% convinced that the coo's on later Kenner cards match up with the figures either (not particularly Luke Jedi) but many of these cards still have the "Factory Stamp - HN, HT" etc. Does the presence of this stamp mean that they were definitely carded by that factory?

I know this has got a little off topic, but I'm hoping it will help to figure out origins of variants in the future.

Thanks,
Rog Smile

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snaggletooth
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2011 1:28 pm

@_Rog_ wrote:
@snaggletooth wrote:
I beleve that these figures "MECCANO Boba Fett and the assocciated figures unique to this line with no coo and unique copyright markings (Leia hoth, all in one line)" Where made in the HK factory specifically for Meccano to Distribute, like they did with the Luke Jedi and all the other PAL variants for Palitoy. I'm sure there will figures out there with the same date stamp but Hong Kong underneath.
I’m probably reading this wrong, but just because there’s a similar figure to a no coo variant but with the “Hong Kong” mark doesn’t necessarily mean the no coo figure was made in Hong Kong. As JC said the moulds got shipped around to different factories so the no coo variant could have been made in a completely different country to its “Hong Kong” brother!


Hi Rog, these are just my thoughts mate, when I wrote that I was actually thinking about the figures with the smoothed over COO's under the date stamp. The Meccano Fett was probably made by PBP. After reading Craig's limelite and everything else over the last year it made total sense to me that the coo's where removed in the HK factory for palitoy, meccano and other European distributors (I also didn't know some of these where made in Macau) Other figures where also made for these company's by different factory's but they have different COO's like the MADE IN NO COO(any ideas?) and the Scar variants(PBP). Craig's proved it with the Luke jedi so to me it's probably what happened with all the smoothed over figs, originally anyway. The question is why remove them in the first place?

What other smoothed over coo figs appear in Macau baggies?

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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2011 2:19 pm

@snaggletooth wrote:
Hi Rog, these are just my thoughts mate, when I wrote that I was actually thinking about the figures with the smoothed over COO's under the date stamp. The Meccano Fett was probably made by PBP. After reading Craig's limelite and everything else over the last year it made total sense to me that the coo's where removed in the HK factory for palitoy, meccano and other European distributors (I also didn't know some of these where made in Macau) Other figures where also made for these company's by different factory's but they have different COO's like the MADE IN NO COO(any ideas?) and the Scar variants(PBP). Craig's proved it with the Luke jedi so to me it's probably what happened with all the smoothed over figs, originally anyway. The question is why remove them in the first place?
If we can 'now' say that the coo's on Palitoy 65A cards are accurate to the figures inside hopefully a few more no coo Pal variants can be classified. The trick now is spotting which figures appeared on these cards! For the no coo figures that don't come on 65A's I'm afraid it's back to checking baggies, production samples etc etc.

@snaggletooth wrote:
What other smoothed over coo figs appear in Macau baggies?
Off the top of my head and excluding the dull Wink two dozen or so figures released prior to the 'Last 17' there's Bib, Imperial Commander, Leia Bespin, I guess Chirpa (he has the coo on the raised bar 'smoothed over') probably a few more I can't think of right now...

Rog Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2011 6:21 am

@Craig T wrote:


Nice work Craig and usefull post,

I am just sceptical about the fact that some Palitoy action figures were packaged in the Far-East factories...I really doubt. Seeing that the first Palitoy JEDI 45 back still packaged in the UK, i have hard to accept this punctual change. As you said, there were too much reasons to keep carding the figures in the UK.

I would like to bring some more info about the far-east factories. It may help you in your search and may highlight some obscure point.

In May 1977, Palitoy hooked up its own department in Kowloon (Hong Kong). A staff of seventeen employees, including inspectors and engineers were appointed for Quality Control Engineering, Research and Development. The first point was to reduce its suppliers to a very few large and reputable companies. Some of these companies were; Kader Industries (the largest compagny involved in the toy business in HK), Cheung Kong Industries and other old-established suppliers as Mego, Perfekta and Playmates. Tomy Corporation was also a strong partener in plastic injection and small pieces provider.
From a geographic and historical point of view, Hong Kong was the first place of production. Hong Kong was a British colony untill 1997, but till an an agreement signed in 1984 to transfer sovereignty to the Republic of China, production slowly moved to other countries. Macao was another colony under Portuguese control and Portugal also signed this transfert agreement the same year in the same conditions... Notice that Macao is just 70Km south-west from Hong Kong.

Understand that many late "Made in China" production are from these same HK and Macao factories. Just the name changed.
EDIT: Also i would like to highlight that a "MADE IN HONG KONG" mention designated a location, NOT a factory. There was at least 2 or 3 factories in HK producing the same action figure in several periods. It means 2 or 3 variants with HK mention and alternate details... Complicated, isn't it!!!! Very Happy

The island of Taiwan suffered a long time period of dictatorial government history. Until mid-1980, the new established government began to liberalize the political system and promoted a new industry era. Many companies opened new factories plants in the island mainly due to a low tax sytem and a cheap workforce.

Hope that can help a little.

JC
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2011 7:53 am

@Panastur wrote:
Also i would like to highlight that a "MADE IN HONG KONG" mention designated a location, NOT a factory. There was at least 2 or 3 factories in HK producing the same action figure in several periods. It means 2 or 3 variants with HK mention and alternate details... Complicated, isn't it!!!! Very Happy



JC

it is possible for "Made in Hong Kong" to designate a location: one HK factory(HT) produces one figure labelled "Made in Hong Kong" & the other factory(HN) labels it "Hong Kong" This probably only aplies to a few figures & may not have been a planned thing?
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2011 8:04 am

@_Rog_ wrote:


@snaggletooth wrote:
What other smoothed over coo figs appear in Macau baggies?
Off the top of my head and excluding the dull Wink two dozen or so figures released prior to the 'Last 17' there's Bib, Imperial Commander, Leia Bespin, I guess Chirpa (he has the coo on the raised bar 'smoothed over') probably a few more I can't think of right now...

Rog Smile

Thanks Rog, If you think of any more would love to know about them.

Do the No COO Pal variants appear on cards Earlier than the ROTJ line and are there any no COO Pal variant's of Bib, Imperial Commander, Leia Bespin. Do you know the different to the Macau?

I've also got a no COO Cloud car pilot(same COO'ish as Ledy) but in the COO Guide the pal variant has the date stamp on the opposite leg. Do you think that mine was made a Macau?

Sorry about all the questions mate but all this info on COO's is right up my street, Scott
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PostSubject: Re: Erased coo's   Erased coo's I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2011 8:22 am

@Panastur wrote:
Understand that many late "Made in China" production are from these same HK and Macao factories. Just the name changed.

Thats good to know mate, so we can match up the HK and Macao molds to the china ones and get a more accurate production date/card back. I presume there wasn't any China factorys before 1984.
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