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 Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??

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frunkstar
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PostSubject: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2011 6:12 am

Got this figure of evilbay the other day, I have never seen it with this variation in pain job b4, grey legs & green shorts??.

Has any one else here got the form on this figures background??, He is a Taiwan COO - LFL 1984, please have a look at the photos.

Hope I have put this post in the right section.

I have this on 3 other forums already & not a reply in over 100 views - hoping for better luck here guys!

Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6810
Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6811
Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6812
Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6813
Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6814
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aussiejames
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2011 7:00 am

some Rancor keeper discussion here : https://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t1541-rancor-keeper-variations?highlight=rancor

IMO degredation

EDIT, just like this
Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? CSC_0645


Last edited by aussiejames on Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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frunkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2011 7:18 am

Thanks for the link, I have replied to the thread, I do not think this is degradation IMHO as its much to even.

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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2011 7:32 am

Just becuase it's even doesn't mean it's not degredation. Even seen a pink limbed Leia??

I'm with AJ. It's likely the result of light damage, sun damage, etc.

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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2011 7:32 am

fraunkstar wrote:
Thanks for the link, I have replied to the thread, I do not think this is degradation IMHO as its much to even.


Hi fraunkstar and welcome to TIG

Degradation is mostly down to the mix of the plastic and the amount of preserver added IMO, if the legs where made with a well mixed plastic with little preserver then I think this would be the result.
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2011 7:43 am

Thanks for the replies guys & the welcome (must get on to the mods & get my username sorted as I only bloody miss spelled it & did not notice :I am stupid: )

I have indeed seen pink limed Leia's, & have thought to factor in the sun light & preserver equations, but I still don't think that that is it as I have seen a lot of beater figures & never come across a RC that's this colour b4.

The colours still seems vibrant & totally uniform, anyone else got a light damaged Rancor keeper thats gone this colour then?, as I just don't feel that that is the answer, though I see what you are getting at & if I had not had the figure in my own hands may well have presumed the same thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2011 8:36 am

I think he is a bit strange as he's only discoloured from the waist down, do you think he has been discoloured using some kind of chemical or some thing?
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2011 7:09 pm

Guys, lets reel this in.......

We've seen figures with only 1 limb discolored. We've seen yellow stormtroopers. We've seen Boba Fett bodies that are 3x paler than the limbs. It happens. Uniformity doesn't mean squat.

I think you're hoping for some uber variant, and I understand, but you've got a discolored Rancor Keeper. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly possible it's some rare variation but you've said yourself it's posted on multiple sites with no realy replied. I think you've got your answer right there. Occams razor at work

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frunkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04, 2011 6:35 pm

@snaggletooth wrote:
I think he is a bit strange as he's only discoloured from the waist down, do you think he has been discoloured using some kind of chemical or some thing?

Sorry for the late reply, been away for a few days.

That may indeed be a possibility, but I am unsure how this may have been archived as there are paint rub's here & there with no sign or the usual colours present.

The legs I think (99% sure) are in fact moulded grey as the colouration is the same inside the peg holes.

Some further photos here -

Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6935
Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6936
Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6937
Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6938
Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6939
Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6940
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frunkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04, 2011 6:46 pm

@Darthberizing wrote:
Guys, lets reel this in.......

We've seen figures with only 1 limb discolored. We've seen yellow stormtroopers. We've seen Boba Fett bodies that are 3x paler than the limbs. It happens. Uniformity doesn't mean squat.

I think you're hoping for some uber variant, and I understand, but you've got a discolored Rancor Keeper. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly possible it's some rare variation but you've said yourself it's posted on multiple sites with no realy replied. I think you've got your answer right there. Occams razor at work

I hear where you are coming from but don't think this is a simple case of discolouration or degradation IMO & E as the legs as said above do seem to be moulded in grey, the other items - wrist straps/arm bands & "nappie" are all a uniform colour which is not the norm, the boots are a darker green though.

I am not looking to have found a first shot/prototype or 1 off figure, not that it wouldn't be nice, but I would like to find out more about it as I am of the firm opinion that this is not a custom etc, there are no tell tale signs of boil & pop or re painting etc.

& just the fact that I have had no difinative answers on all the forums I have posted on only fuels my interest regarding this figures background, rather than your view of it being of little interest, call it instinct or a vibe etc, but I do feel there is something about this figure that we are missing (apart from some paint that is).

Living in hopes of enlightenment
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04, 2011 6:59 pm

fraunkstar wrote:
@snaggletooth wrote:
I think he is a bit strange as he's only discoloured from the waist down, do you think he has been discoloured using some kind of chemical or some thing?

Sorry for the late reply, been away for a few days.

That may indeed be a possibility, but I am unsure how this may have been archived as there are paint rub's here & there with no sign or the usual colours present.

The legs I think (99% sure) are in fact moulded grey as the colouration is the same inside the peg holes.

Some further photos here -

Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6935
Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6936
Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6937
Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6938
Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6939
Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6940

Hey Frank! Nice to see you made it over here too! Smile

I think judging by these pics, this figure has been repainted. It looks like it was paint stripped at one point and repainted. These photos, at least in my eyes, seem to suggest that. I think the legs are either degraded or a slight color variance, but the rest of it looks repainted to me. The shots of the bottom of the feet are the giveaway IMO.

I could be totally off base, but that's what I'm leaning towards.

EDIT: P.S., you're welcome on the name change! Wink


Last edited by RebelChris on Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04, 2011 7:04 pm

Henrik (HWR) over on RS told you what it was, discolored.

"I actually think it's due to discoloration, how weird it might sound. If it was a variation, it would have been discovered and more would have popped up a long time ago. "

Theres nothing special about it besides it being discolored or deteriated. Believe what you want, but thats all it is.
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04, 2011 7:08 pm

Nice of you to input Chris & also good to know your on here as well, but I have had a real good look at the feet just now as well as the rest of the painted parts & do not think its a re paint in all honesty, also the legs on a standard RC are moulded green looking at the colour inside the peg holes on others as a reference point??.

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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04, 2011 7:13 pm

@Chris_J wrote:
Henrik (HWR) over on RS told you what it was, discolored.

"I actually think it's due to discoloration, how weird it might sound. If it was a variation, it would have been discovered and more would have popped up a long time ago. "

Theres nothing special about it besides it being discolored or deteriated. Believe what you want, but thats all it is.

I am full aware of the reply made on RS by HRW, but I am not of the same opinion - why would the colouration be the same inside the peg holes & if a simple case of discolouration/degradation why have no other ones been found with the same the same discolouration issues??

You seem pretty convinced, so please do show me another example & I will concede that it is in deed a simple case of time taking its toll on the plastic.
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04, 2011 7:28 pm

@frunkstar wrote:
why would the colouration be the same inside the peg holes & if a simple case of discolouration/degradation why have no other ones been found with the same the same discolouration issues??


take the olive limbed hammerhead for example, it's discoloration is consistent the plastic turned brown to green to a point where you can break it's limbs an the discoloration is all the way through. Why have no other Rancor keeper's showed up like this one? No degredation is 'simple' it is a result of many factors so this one was exposed to a few different unique combination of factors ie. kids spit after eating oranges, put in dirt with a high/low PH level, used as a sex toy, put in a dark cupboard with mothballs, washed with bleach........
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04, 2011 7:34 pm

Rolling Eyes Whatever. Like I said, believe what you want to believe. The reason why its the same color in the peg holes is because the plastic the legs are made of its deteriating all around. Why havent more showed up? Who the hell knows. And if I had a sample of it, I would be glad to show it. But since you have the only known sample WOO HOO, go with what you want on it. You wont believe no ones elses input. You didnt even consider Chris', so if it makes you fell better...

WOW! You got the ultra rare faded leg variant! Congrats great find. cheers


And I know your aware of Henrik's response on RS, you didnt consider his opinion on it either, along with a few others here. So go with the flow. I give up trying to help you guys out with info. You believe what ever you want and dont even consider other options because you want to have the ultimate find. Sure everyone would love to find that hidden gem, but your not going to find one in 30+ year old figures that deteriate like these do.
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frunkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 04, 2011 9:34 pm

@Chris_J wrote:
Rolling Eyes Whatever. Like I said, believe what you want to believe. The reason why its the same color in the peg holes is because the plastic the legs are made of its deteriating all around. Why havent more showed up? Who the hell knows. And if I had a sample of it, I would be glad to show it. But since you have the only known sample WOO HOO, go with what you want on it. You wont believe no ones elses input. You didnt even consider Chris', so if it makes you fell better...

WOW! You got the ultra rare faded leg variant! Congrats great find. cheers


And I know your aware of Henrik's response on RS, you didnt consider his opinion on it either, along with a few others here. So go with the flow. I give up trying to help you guys out with info. You believe what ever you want and dont even consider other options because you want to have the ultimate find. Sure everyone would love to find that hidden gem, but your not going to find one in 30+ year old figures that deteriate like these do.

I have indeed considered all the information provided by others here on the forum & on the other forums it was posted, I have had various opinions regarding its identity & or history, the possibilities are various, I am not assuming that I have any ultra rare variation on the standard RC, but I did want to see what turns up regarding its unusual appearance as I found it most unusual, I only had 1 reply on RS in over 100 views so thought it best to expand the thread to further avenues.

The point of my reply to you which I think you fail to see is that for all of your supposed understanding of the hobby, you come across rude brash & opinionated, not the best formula for a public forum, as stated b4 - I am happy with the figure & found it of interest, if like that from word go or as a time affected issue in the paint or plastic, as I understand it this is supposed to be a forum for collectors to share their interest of the hobby & learn new things about that hobby, with the negativity you are showing no one would learn a thing.

Just my opinion at how you come across - I am always open to varying opinions hence posting the find in the first place.

We shall just have to agree to disagree.

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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 05, 2011 12:16 am

Well, if I seem brash and all, its just that when things are explained 9 times out of 10 it gets swept under the rug and ignored when it comes down to what is or isnt a variant. There was several responses to your question the same as mine that it was discolored. Sure you dont have to agree to it, but its just what the concensus thinks it is. But when info is handed out like it was for the last 2 days (3 now) and it gets ignored and the questioner wants to have a snappy response back, sure Im going to snap back. Thats just me. We dont have to agree on everything, but like I said before, Im trying to help out where I can with what I learned from my time in the hobby. And what I base my responses on is what leading collectors of variants have said over the years, and that is that 99% of the so called variants out there are nothing but deteriated plastic or discolored figures. Most variant collectors dont want to hear that because they dont want the new find to turn out to be a damaged figure. Sure, it would be nice for a new thing to come out of the wood works, but when your dealing with 30 year old plastic, your not going to find much of anything new out there. And alot of times when the proof is in front of everybody, some still dont want to accept it.

Believe me, I was in the same boat as you when I got into the hobby. I thought a slight difference in a color of paint or the figure itself was a variant. But I learned to read and listen to those who were in the hobby alot longer than me on what they had to say. I realized I was dropping good money on these damaged figures for nothing. Some of it was cheap, some not so cheap. But at the end of the day, when I asked a question of "What is this?" I took to heart what the responses were because I knew the guy who gave it to me was wanting me to learn whats going on in the hobby. Not once did I say to them that they were wrong and show me proof that what I got is damaged. What I did was ask them what made them come to their answer so I could better myself in spotting these. And everyone of them was glad to give me the info it took them years to come up with to help me along in my quest. And as you said, you only got one response on RS. The reason why you only got one was because you got the answer to your question. There was no need in going on 4-5 pages about it. "Variants" like these are old news over there because its all been said before and no one wants to talk about them anymore. I posted a link in the other thread the other day showing 159 posts for variants, couldve been more I didnt go through it all. Look at all the responses in those and you'll see why you only got one. And Chris posted one after mine about the production of the figures to show how these things are made. That one should answer alot of questions on all these different colored variants out there.
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 05, 2011 11:14 am

@aussiejames wrote:


...kids spit after eating oranges, put in dirt with a high/low PH level, used as a sex toy, put in a dark cupboard with mothballs, washed with bleach........

LOL... BTW, These are all techniques I use to make my rare variants. My girlfriend is partial to a Snowtrooper helmet. J/K
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 05, 2011 11:16 am

LOL. Dallas, I thought it was red wine you used. Now I know the REAL secret. thinking lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 05, 2011 11:20 am

@Chris_J wrote:
LOL. Dallas, I thought it was red wine you used. Now I know the REAL secret. thinking lol!

OH NASTY! Yes, the red wine variants are unique by themselves. They fall under "Natural Disaster Variants." The other others just have a shiny gloss to them and smell funny...

OK, let me quit hijacking this thread before I piss someone off...
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 05, 2011 11:40 am

@frunkstar wrote:

Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6938
Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Th_IMGP6939

It's these two pics that make me think repaint. If you look, you can see that the discoloring (or whatever it is) is consistent all the way through, and you can definitely see it inside the peg hole. However, you can also see that the boots are painted over the top of it. And they tried to get some down in the peg hole. Not only that, but it looks like you can sort of see some brush strokes and bubbles in the paint.

I think (grant it, I haven't looked at a loose figure in awhile), that most of the time, the paint on the feet go all the way in the peg hole and it's completely painted in there. This guy seems to lack that characteristic.
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 05, 2011 12:04 pm

Me and Josh_T was just talking about the same thing awhile ago, Chris. He has a figure (cant remember which one now), that when the feet was painted, it went in the peg holes like you said. When I go pick him up from school, I'll get him to post a pix of the one he has. I would, but I dont have the figure in hand and he can take better shots than I can anyway. But if you look in the peg holes of a Tie Fighter Pilot, you can see it there also. I just checked one I got here on the desk and its painted in the holes also. I'll see if I can get a shot of that one.

Heres the best shot I can get of it with my crappy camera.

Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Img_1846
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PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 05, 2011 4:18 pm

Frank you really need to listed to what you're being told. Ever heard of Occums Razor? It's the premise that the simple explanation is usually the right one. In this case, everyone is telling you that the figure is discolored or repainted. You seem veey confident in it being something bigger. That's fine if you want to beleive it.

That said, I will not allow any nasty remarks from ANYONE. Next person to make a remark that's rude or anythnig I deem inappropriate is getting a 2 week ban.

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Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 05, 2011 5:56 pm

Wow! a lot of replies in the last 12 hours guys, I thank you for getting back to me regarding the RC & my concerns over your apparent frustration over what I thought to be just an easy going thread about something not overly important, but interesting all the same, hence my posting it, & its good to see we are communicating on a better level & can understand where you were coming from just was not convinced, now from all the reading I have done in the last 24hrs I would also conclude that the "Occums Razor" principal is more than likely the answer, it just seems so odd that the colouration is so 100% uniform & I have in all my years of collecting never seen such a curious form of discolouration, I must admit I would fall more in to the thinking of the possibility of a paint strip & re paint as Chris has brought up, but I have had a really good look at the figure & if indeed it has had a re paint its been done well, as I used to paint D&D miniatures & the paint job is most convincing, I think the paintbrush marks you (Chris) refereed to are actually scratched marks in the foot of the figure if you look very closely at the photo it is quite deeply gouged with the grey of the legs as said viable through the paint of the boots, there is some pimpling/bubbling on the feet as well but nothing I have not seen b4 on a figure that if factory painted.

I have had a member on another UK board I use suggest that I try to get the figure under a black light & see if it shows us any more tell tale signs, I will take photos when I do if anything shows & post findings.

Chemical fading is another option that maybe the culprit as has been stated in the post.

I just want it know I did not post in the assumption that this a first shot or proto etc & I could maybe have used an alternative definition to variant, but it seems the correct wording at time of posting.

It would however be nice to know how this figure ended up the way he did.

I have listened to the points which all of you have raised & greatly appreciate all of your input & have learned new things to consider when looking at variations on figures in the future so IMO the post has though a little miss directed, been both informative & interesting, which is if I am not mistaken what we are all here for - to learn new things & consider all possibility's.

Chris - not all figures are painted in the peg holes, some more than others but also a good point worth consideration, not something everyone would think of looking at.



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Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it??   Never seen this variant b4 - anyone else seen it?? I_icon_minitime

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