TABLE OF CONTENTS

• Introduction
  
• Discolouration
  
• Yellowing
  
• Can it be reversed?
  
• A special transformation....Biotransformation
  
• Definitions: Variants, Transformants & Factory Errors
  
• Examples of Transformants
  
• Interesting Links
  
• Contributors
  

INTRODUCTION

Discussions about loose vintage figure variants having 'unique' paint schemes tend to pop up on the boards sometimes. Also eBay seems flooded with these rare and unique variants.
Most of the time these 'variants' are in fact degraded figures with discolored paint and/or yellowing.

This thread summarizes some facts about colour degradation and yellowing.  

I hope it will help any future discussions about so called rare variants which are in fact nothing more (and less) than degraded figures, or transformants as I like to coin them.  






DISCOLOURATION

The different paints used for a vintage figure have different sensitivity towards degradation by UV/visible light and chemical breakdown. So during time, some of the paint can appear 1) less intense (fading), and 2) changed in colour.
This is true for paints applied to the surface of plastic figurea, or those which have been mixed throughout the plastic.

How to explain these changes in colours? How can a brown paint turn green for instance?

There are different theories which might all fit depending on the discussed paint. Let's go through them briefly:  

#1: Chemical Breakdown

Some pigments within paints can change or loose colour by chemical breakdown - for instance oxidation or light.
This explains for instance why pink paints used for hands, face, neck sometimes turn pale.
Also the varnish used to cover metalic paints is prone to degradation sometimes, causing it to yellow. This results for instance in golden R2 domes or golden Death Star Droids.    


#2: Green Orange Purple Theory

Some paints can be composed of different pigments, e.g. Green (yelow+blue pigments), Orange (red+yellow pigments), Purple (red+blue pigments). You can imagine that degradation causes the relative amounts of the pigments in a paint to be changed, as one pigments degrades faster than the other.  

Take for instance a look at the Prune Face at the left in the pic below. Suppose that the green paint within the plastic of the legs is composed of yellow and blue pigments. And that the yellow pigments have somehow degraded more over the course of time. We can then understand the two things which we actually see here: the green is shifted to blue (less yellow), and the colour is less intense (faded).

Green pants turning blue.


More examples:

• green (=yellow + blue) to blue: yellow fades away, blue remains (Prune Face blue pants)
  
• orange (=red + yellow) to yellow: red fades away, yellow remains (Boba Fett yellow patches)
  
• brown (= red + yellow + blue) to green: red fades away, yellow + blue = green remains  (Chewbacca green limbs, Yoda green snake)
  
• dark blue to  light blue/grey: faded blue (faded Boba Fett limbs)
  
• .... and many other examples, see picture list of "transformants" further below
  

Now, how to explain the mixed limbs Chewbacca below?

Chewie: One Green and Brown Leg.


Simply. . Different pigments in the brown paint mixed through the plastic are expected to have a different sensitivity towards degradation, resulting in a color shift during time (here brown to green as the red pigment decays). Assuming the same light exposure during time, the extent to which a pigment in the brown plastic was prone to degradation depended on the direct chemical ''environment'' which can accelerate degradation reactions and therefore makes things worse. Think for instance about the concentration of neighboring plastifiers, or flame retardants (producing free radicals, chemically highly reactive species) within the plastic. Different batches of plastic might have slightly different compositions, and therefore the colour shift might process at different speeds.
In case you would mix up the limbs from two different batches (which might be common practice in the Kenner factories) you could thus end up with the mixed green/brown limbed Chewie as shown in the pic.


#3: Cyan Magenta Yellow Theory

The subtractive color theory explains the observed colour differences even better. This theory uses Cyan, Magenta, Yellow rather than Red, Yellow, Blue.

TIG member _Rog_ gave a few examples, discussed further in this thread:

- Ugnaught's cape: 'Neutral' coloured cloth dyed blue - magenta & cyan (1:1?). The cyan 'fades' leaving a magenta cape.

- Dengar painted torso: Dark purple made from magenta, some cyan and some yellow (2:1:1?). This time the magenta fades leaving the paint green.

- Luke / Rebel Soldier & Commander / Bossk painted legs & feet: Brown made from magenta, yellow & some cyan (something like 2:2:1 or 1:2:1?). Magenta fades leaving green again.




TAKE HOME MESSAGES:
- No matter what colour theory (#1, #2, #3 or something else), the underlying mechanism - colour change of paint by degradation of different pigments - stays the same.  
- Also be aware that limbs and torsos are made from different plastics. The torso is usually made from a harder type of ABS plastic (acrylonitrile butadiene styrene), whereas the limbs are made from a softer PVC plastic (polyvinyl chloride). These two types of plastic may discolour differently in time. Sometimes you read in threads: "The limbs have a different colour compared to the torso, so it can't be degradation cause you would expect the same colour change everywhere then!." After reading this thread, you know better.







YELLOWING

Yellowing is something different than discolouration. It is caused by chemical oxidation reactions within the plastic (not the pigments within the plastic!), either spontaneously or initiated by visible/UV light or heat. And once started, probably accelerated by temperature fluctuations and humidity. To make a long story short, in the end you have more molecules in the plastic which absorb blue light giving the plastic a yellow appearance. The chemical reaction can even proceed further, meaning that in the end plastics can even turn pink.  






CAN IT BE REVERSED?

In general: Degradation of pigments is caused by light and/or chemical reactions.
It can not be reversed, we are talking irreversible chemical reactions. It is like rebuilding burnt trees from their ashes.

Yellowing can be reversed by strong oxidizing agents like hydrogenperoxide or bleach. Basically you destroy the newly formed molecules which absorb the blue light. So you end up with a bright white figure. However by doing so, the plastic is exposed to some aggressive oxidizing agents, thereby laying the seeds for (even more) future yellowing. On different fora, I have seen pictures of yellow Stormtroopers becoming minty white after a peroxide bath. Always amazing to see, but I would like to see pictures of the same treated Stormtroopers 2 years later. The treatment might be worse than the illness in this case.






A SPECIAL TRANSFORMATION....BIOTRANSFORMATION!!!


Providing the right conditions (temperature, humidity) fungi/molds can use many organic stuffs as food, not only the bread and marmalade in your kitchen cabinet, but also more harsh materials like wood (think about the mushrooms in autumn forests), and as it seems even (horror!) plastics of your beloved Star Wars items.
Colonies of fungi can be observed as spots on Star Wars figures and give rise to a speckled appearance.

Fungi can be killed by bleach and UV but keep in mind that such treatment might also affect the plastics/pigments.

Moreover fungi have spent a few billion years longer on this planet than us and have successfully developed spores which are more resistant to antifungal treatments. Spores serve to spread the fungi to other areas and start a new life there. In this way fungi could in principle infect neighbouring figures. I sincerely hope this remains theory and won't happen in real life collections. To be sure I put the few molded figures in safe quarantine from the rest of my collection. Below is my childhood Snowtrooper affected by pinkish molds.  


Biotransformant: my poor childhood Snowtrooper affected by fungi/molds.  







SOME DEFINITIONS: VARIANTS, TRANSFORMANTS & FACTORY ERRORS


VARIANT:

Figure that left the factory in its present appearance and which met the Quality Control standards at the time of production. A variant deviates from the "standard" more common figure.
The variation might refer to:
- paint application (Ben Kenobi with white and grey hair, Cloud City Pilot with pale and bright yellow boots,....)
- COO (Taiwan, Hong Kong, 2 line, 3 line,....)
- sculpt (Han Solo small and big head, Blue Snaggletooth, but also smaller differences mostly connected to COO families).
- accessories (single and double telescoping light saber, vinyl and soft goods Jawa cape,...)

Normally variants were produced in high numbers, but there can be exceptions when the QC standards were changed during production. This is probably the case for the Lili Ledy Removable Rocket Boba Fett with loose non welded rocket, Orange Hair Luke, even Blue Snaggletooth.



TRANSFORMANT:

Figure that got its present appearance after a visual change during time (green limbed Chewie, yellowed Stormtrooper, etc.).    
Consequently, a transformant did not leave the factory in its present appearance and is therefore NOT a variant.

Some transformants have an interesting visual appearance and are well established among collectors, think purple smock Ugnaught, green limbs Chewie,... IMO these transformants have a place in collections, but just keep in mind they should not be considered true variants.

IMPORTANT: The appearance of a transformant figure might be traced back to a specific batch of factory-used materials (plastic, paint) in combination with an used mould, COO. Still that doesn’t make them true variants as they did not leave the factory that way.

- Example 1: Take the green limbs Chewie for instance. I am not an expert on this, but I think he was found only with certain Hong Kong COOs. So probably the green limbs Chewie can be traced back to a factory which used batches of brown plastic with a (slightly) different composition in which the red pigment was more prone to degradation, giving rise to green limbs after 30 years. Still this figure is a transformant not a true variant IMO. Why? Because he did not leave the factory with green limbs thirty years ago.

- Example 2 (a tougher one ): The green neck Leia Bespin. In this figure the metals in the applied gold paint reacted chemically over the years resulting in a green neck. In this case the green neck can be linked directly to the used gold paint, so you might argue, this is a true variant. But it is not IMO. Why? Cause the green neck Leia never left the factory in her current condition thirty years ago, so this figure is a transformant too. If you would have a gold neck Leia in your present collection, it would off course be a different story, that figure would be a true variant, as she represents the Leia that the factory intended to produce in the 80s.


Green neck Leia Bespin (source: Rebelscum.com)





FACTORY ERROR:

Figure that left the factory in its present appearance but which did not met the QC standards at the time of production, and instead accidently slipped through. For instance paint errors, Ledy RR Boba Fett with loose wrongly welded rocket.
By nature factory errors are produced in very low numbers.

Like transformants, factory errors are NOT variants.  











EXAMPLES OF TRANSFORMANTS

Below you see the transformants which have been discussed in this thread. You can help by posting pics of yours as well.  


A. FIGURES



2-1B



#1: YELLOWED TORSO.


4-LOM



#1,2: PINKISH ARMS AND LEGS (LEFT FIGURE).



8D8



#1: YELLOWED TORSO.
#2: GREEN LIMBS AND HEAD.



ANAKIN SKYWALKER



#1: GREEN BODY WARMER.  



AT AT DRIVER



#1: YELLOWED TORSO.



BARADA



#1: YELLOWED PANTS.  




BEN KENOBI



#1: GREEN PANTS.



BOBA FETT



#1,2: YELLOWED ARMS AND LEGS (13 INCH FIGURE).
#3,4: FADED HEAD AND LIMBS (BOTH LEGS AND ONE ARM).



CHEWBACCA



#1: GREEN LIMBS.
#2,3: THE MISSING LINK: CHEWBACCA WITH LEFT ARM TURNING GREEN, HALF BROWN, HALF GREEN.  



FX-7



#1: YELLOWED BODY ("GOLDIE"). (FIGURE ON THE RIGHT).



GREEDO



#1: DARK GREEN TORSO.



HAMMERHEAD



#1: GREEN LIMBS.


HAN SOLO BESPIN



#1: GREEN PANTS.




LANDO CALRISSIAN



#1: YELLOWED TORSO, CAUSING A GREEN APPEARANCE IN COMBINATION WITH THE BLUE PAINT: YELLOW + BLUE = GREEN.



LEIA BESPIN



#1: GREEN DRESS.
#2: GREEN NECK.



LEIA BOUSHH



#1,2: PINKISH ARMS AND LEGS.



LEIA ENDOR



#1: YELLOWED TORSO AND EVEN SOME PURPLE.


LOBOT



 



#1,2: PALE HANDS (WERE PINK WHEN THEY LEFT THE FACTORY, SEE CLOSE-UP)
#3,4,5: BIOTRANSFORMANT HAVING MOULDS ON HEAD AND LIMBS
#6: WHITE ARM (PROBABLY DUE TO MIX UP OF ARMS MADE OUT OF GOOD AND BAD QUALITY PLASTIC, THE BAD PLASTIC HAS DEGRADED DURING TIME)




LUKE BESPIN



#1: GREEN BOOTS.
#2: PURPLE ARMS, LEGS, AND HEAD. PROBABLY SPENT TOO MUCH TIME WITH THE LEIA ENDOR ABOVE.  
#3,4: PALE ARMS AND LEGS.



LUKE FARMBOY

 

#1: PALE HEAD.
#2: PALE HANDS AND NECK. YELLOWED TORSO.



LUKE X-WING PILOT



#1: DARK RED ARMS AND LEGS (''LUKE B-WING PILOT" ).
#2: DARK RED RIGHT LEG.



MAX REEBO





#1: PALE LIMBS AND HEAD.
#2,3: PALE LIMBS AND HEAD PLUS YELLOWED TORSO DUE TO EXPOSURE TO SUNLIGHT.



PRUNE FACE



#1: GREEN PANTS.
#2: GREEN PANTS



R2D2

 

#1: GREEN DOME (FIGURE ON THE LEFT).
#2: GOLDEN DOME.



RANCOR KEEPER




#1: PALE HEAD AND ARMS ("ZOMBIE KEEPER").



REBEL COMMANDO



#1: GREEN ARMS AND PANTS.



REBEL SOLDIER



#1: YELLOWED ARMS.



REEYEES



#1: GREEN DISCO BOOTS.
#2: GRAY TORSO.



WICKET



#1: GREEN LIMBS.



ZUCKUSS



#1: GOLDEN (YELLOWED) TORSO.



OTHER TRANSFORMANTS (NO PICS YET)

* Death Star Droid golden torso + limbs
* Jawa speckled limbs (Toltoys)
* Leia Organa pale yellow hands
* Leia Organa green metalic hair
* Blue Snaggletooth with green torso
* Wicket Green speckled limbs
* ......(pls add more)



B. ACCESSORRIES


4-LOM GREEN ARMOUR





UGNAUGHT PURPLE SMOCK

wbobafett wrote:

The one on the left is another fabric. he cannot be found purple because this fabric is quality and doesn't discolor so fast!
The one in the middle and the one on the right are made from a different material compared to the left one!!!
The right one is clearly discolored! But whats with the one in the middle??? He starts to discolor on the outer parts, but was this smock ever bright blue over all like the left one??? I dont think so...and nobody could have proven me till today that this kind of fabric ever was blue!

SQUID HEAD ORANGE CAPE





OTHER TRANSFORMED ACCESSORIES (NO PICS YET)

* Tusken Raider dark brown cape

Source: theswca.com

* Yoda green snake
* .....(pls add more)





INTERESTING LINKS


General

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t965344/

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1056169/

https://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t2076-variant-collectors-your-thoughts-on-tan-green-limbs?highlight=green

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1047754/ (pink figures caused by plastic degradation)

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1048112/  (speckled = molded figures)



Famous Transformants.

- Chewbacca green limbs
http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1060683/


- Boba Fett faded limbs
http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1001515/


- Hammerhead green limbs
http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1025675/


- Klaatu gray/tan limbs
http://forum.rebelscum.com/t919195/


- Squidhead Orange Cape
http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1004981/


- Tusken Raider Darkbrown Cape
http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1098116/


- Ugnaught purple smock
http://forum.rebelscum.com/t965822/#post16230726

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1006330/

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1032978/


- Yoda green snake
http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1067696/

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t935672/\





CONTRIBUTORS

Here we like to thank all those who contributed their pictures to this project. Thanks you very much guys, you all deserve a TIG medal of honor.


Contributors sofar:

• aussiejames
  
• cantina_patron
  
• chris.75
  
• crealkilla
  
• Dr Dengar
  
• jason11272stacey
  
• Jedi Blueberry
  
• Jetson
  
• Joe_O
  
• Ourchickensack
  
• Rawlin
  
• Starwizz
  
• Walkie
  
• wbobafett
  

The list is still growing. If you don't see your name yet, please send us some pics of a transformant that we haven't covered yet.

Great idea Marco.
Tbh the recent discussions had been annoying me enough not to even bother reading them recently. Real shame.
Hopefully this will help sort out the problem.

Thank GOD! Long overdue this was, I will copy paste this forum thread with joy into the next silly debate lol

Very good thread! Now lets hope it gets used and clears space for more exciting topics!

Congrats and excellent initiative and straight to the point . Just one question regarding discoloration of the prune face in the pic above. Why is the "pelvis" zone not discolored as on the legs? It seems that the colors on the body are more stable (I also have also other figs with discolored legs but intact bodies)...any explanation? Can' t remember reading an explanation for that, so sorry if this has been already replied...

Limbs & torsos are made from different plastics & hence can discolour differently.

As allways great threads You made Marco.
I am 100% agree with all you have say.
Cheers

aussiejames wrote:

Limbs & torsos are made from different plastics & hence can discolour differently.

Thanks James.

Another great thread Marco, although those listed are the main and common Transformants it can and does happen to all the figures out there, maybe not all but the majority.

Also can any one explain briefly how the Ugnought smock discolours?

Great stuff Marco, much needed and well put together

snaggletooth wrote:

Also can any one explain briefly how the Ugnought smock discolours?

Here you go Scott-

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t965822/#post16230726

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1006330/

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1032978/

snaggletooth wrote:

Also can any one explain briefly how the Ugnought smock discolours?

Fading from the sun is the main thing. Look at the 11th post down in this threrad and you can see one where its half blue and half purple.

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1006330/

Marco, great idea. I was going to do something similar to this yesterday with nothing but links from RS, but couldnt get into the mood for it. Dont know if it will help or not, but do you think we should have a list of links to go with this? If so, I'll sit down and hunt for some to post in here.

Dang it Joe. Im slow this morning.

Lol np Chris- good intention just slower hands lol

Another thing to add regarding the anger towards these discussions/people starting them is that people should remember that this forum is relatively new in the grand scheme of things yet the members who make up the ranks are all mostly from other forums where these subjects have been discussed to death.

Having an escape route to the variation madness was a good thing in the beginning but lately this place is turning into The Imperial Variant Gunnery, which quite rightly feels like when you move from one area because of bad neighbours and then similarly annoying neighbours move in right next door... I know variants are collected and are still "hot" but I guess some of us are just bored of nice and interesting forums turning into discussions about crap like this.

I believe people have taken variant collecting way too far although I still support genuine research and work especially regarding tracing COO markings back to their respective and original packaging- I do find that interesting but all this other stuff just bores the shit out of me and others, so when you couple that with the lack of common sense shown by newer members even when faced with 3-4 or more people telling someone it's not what they want it to be and you get all this anger and confrontation.

I am sorry to all the people I have given a hard time to..but in all fairness the information IS out there if you dig a little or ask a question with an open mind and don't always fight the replies of others trying to help.

Thanks for the links Joe and Chris, Thats a great picture of the blue turning, I'd heard about it but not seen anything on the forums.

I know how you Guys feel about variants but I hope that you both keep posting your thoughts and opinions in the variant threads. COO's and figure sculpts are the best way to work out the History of these loose figures IMO and that combined with the knowledge of all the collecting community is a winning formula.

snaggletooth wrote:

Also can any one explain briefly how the Ugnought smock discolours?

A picture says it all: discoloring from blue to purple due to light exposure; I just wonder if the 3rd figures also discolored together with his smock because he has greenish hairs

Alex, the head on the 3rd ones does look alot lighter in color compared to the other 2. Its possible that it is. But I do know the first one is scary looking as hell. Evil looking thing.

Jedi Blueberry wrote:

snaggletooth wrote:

Also can any one explain briefly how the Ugnought smock discolours?

A picture says it all: discoloring from blue to purple due to light exposure; I just wonder if the 3rd figures also discolored together with his smock because he has greenish hairs

Great picture Alex, if the COO on the right one is different, even slight position he could be a different paint job or plastic head. If the COO's the same then I'd say discoloured, his hands look fine though

first of all: good thread. I thought of it for years, but my english is maybe to poor and I recognized that people just dont listen to me....so I simple gave up!

May I add some facts and problematic situations here?


First of all we have mainly 3 "components" on a figure:
1. the torso
2. the limbs
3. the paint on the figure!

All three have something in common: the can react in lots of ways...among each other or to the eniviroment!

So generally we have following things that can react on a figure:
- pigments of a color from the paint
- adhesives of the color from the paint
- the soft palstic
- the pigments in the soft plastic
- the hard plastic
- the pigments in the hard plastic
- the flexibilizers in both plastics


Plus there is the accessories with lots of materials too!


BTW: The old lie of the flame retardants I personally dont believe. Nobody thought about that in the 70s!


2. The case of mixed limbs!
In generall you can think of decoloration of the plastic as a chain reaction! Once started no way to stop it! The first initiation can happen by "accident" or a "weak structure" or another batch of plastic.


3. The case of variants that are discolored but IMO are variants
You have the prune and the lightlimbed Boba fett! There is special variants of these discolorations with certain coos and color sheme in the face that cannot be found undiscolored. I have to think of more examples but there is definatley some figures you wont find undiscolored! So these are variants...coo...whatever....and these are discolored...of course....but can you find them like they left the factory??? NO...YOU CANT! So how to deal with these??
A huge problem IMO.

4. Yellowing
Plastic is an organic material! The "color" appears (without pigment) if you have alternating double bonds on c-chains! The color that it looks like depens on the number of aleternating double bonds. So a plastic can also discolor red or in another color. the fact that most white plastics go yellow is this is the easiest way and need less energy!
By bleaching you destroy these double bonds....the white comes back...but the chemical composite is different as it was ever before! You harm the plastic...make it easy for enviromental issues to yellow again and you make it more brittle!

5. The list:

This list is endless! So Imo its not worth to start, but for sure have a try!
Besides the common discolorations, you can have massive and also rare and heavy strange apperiences on some characters! If we keep it common Ill have for sure another 50 to add.....but I need some time to gather it! LOL

In generall:
Every Torso and every limb can:
a) yellow (add yellow to the color it has)
b) fade

And so on and so on! Also: Plastic degradation does sometimes harm the colors above!


6. Fading:
Organic materials are mostly colored with organic pigments! Means: the plastic was normally colored with organic pigments! Lots of organic pigments are very sensetive regarding light! Especially red and blue!

7. Spotty figures
This has nothging to do with degradation or fading! This is simply something you can spot on your shower curtain! Its mushrooms destroying the plastic! The recrement of these discolors the plastic!





At least: This thread is good and will maybe getting better and better in time...but if people dont have common sense you will never reach these guys. Comon...if someone believes Chewie could have left the factory with green limbs...who can help such people???

COMMON SENSE!!! ITS JUST COMMON SENSE THAT KEEPS YOU AWAY FROM EVERYTHING DEGRADED/DISCOLORED!!!


so Ill now go on with a list if you want?


edit: saw marco did already edited his thread...so some of this is now worthless

You are right Scott! Three figs with 3 different coos. From left to right:
1/
left leg (2 lines)
(c) 1980 L.F.L
HONGKONG

2/
left leg (2 lines)
(c) L.F.L
1980
right leg (2 lines)
Made in
Hong Kong

3/
Left leg (1 line)
(c) 1980 L.F.L
Right leg (2 lines)
Made in
Hong Kong

So it might ben then real variations and not a discoloration, thanks Scott for the hint!

Jedi Blueberry wrote:

A picture says it all: discoloring from blue to purple due to light exposure; I just wonder if the 3rd figures also discolored together with his smock because he has greenish hairs

This is another famous example! But the analogy here is not fair!
The one on the left is another fabric. he cannot be found purple because this fabric is quality and doesnt dicolor so fast!
The one in the middel and the one on the right are made from a differnt material compared to the left one!!!
The right one is clearly discolored! But whats with the one in the middle??? He starts to discolor on the outer parts, but was this smock ever bright blue over all like the left one??? I dont think so...and nobody could have proven me till today that this kind of fabric ever was blue!

So Im generally against all this noob questions and these very straining threads with dicolorations which are no variants, but I think its also important to see the differences on materials while comparing and to check and research the history! The second fabric never appeared in bright blue! Thats a fact...so please tell me if Im wrong....but I dont think so!

Jedi Blueberry wrote:

You are right Scott! Three figs with 3 different coos. From left to right:
1/
left leg (2 lines)
(c) 1980 L.F.L
HONGKONG

2/
left leg (2 lines)
(c) L.F.L
1980
right leg (2 lines)
Made in
Hong Kong

3/
Left leg (1 line)
(c) 1980 L.F.L
Right leg (2 lines)
Made in
Hong Kong

So it might ben then real variations and not a discoloration, thanks Scott for the hint!

It is definitely a variant mate as it has a unique COO, the only way you'll know if its discoloured is to compare it to another figure with the exact same COO. It could still be discoloured though but It's still a variant.

Wolf, Thats a great post for me mate, please keep going.

snaggletooth wrote:

It is definitely a variant mate as it has a unique COO, the only way you'll know if its discoloured is to compare it to another figure with the exact same COO. It could still be discoloured though but It's still a variant.

Thats definatley dangerous mate! A different coos doesnt say its a variant. Remember lots of steelmolds went together and can be stamped individually. Another coo doesnt mean another place of manufacture!

Ill check my ugnaughts when I have the time! There is indeed a few different haircolors...but nevertheless....BTT!

wbobafett wrote:

snaggletooth wrote:

It is definitely a variant mate as it has a unique COO, the only way you'll know if its discoloured is to compare it to another figure with the exact same COO. It could still be discoloured though but It's still a variant.

Thats definatley dangerous mate! A different coos doesnt say its a variant. Remember lots of steelmolds went together and can be stamped individually. Another coo doesnt mean another place of manufacture!

Ill check my ugnaughts when I have the time! There is indeed a few different haircolors...but nevertheless....BTT!

In my eyes it's a variant mate, even if its made at the same factory but with a different mold or newly stamped mold, as that produces a unique COO.

Good idea for a thread Marco / Joe, perhaps a link to the RS Discoloration – a.k.a. "prototypes and variations" thread may be useful here it’s a pity a few pictures are missing.

I do feel bad for new collectors turning up on the boards who own figures with no obvious (to them) signs of discolouration that look completely different to others of the same character. I can remember not being convinced when first told that some of my figures were discoloured and not variations. I can also recall other well-known collectors who thought the same when informed about figures they believed to be variations. However when more experienced collectors are all in agreement about discolouration, you just have to accept what they are saying. IMO arguing / disagreeing with them only causes problems for you, and unfortunately for other variation collectors. Six months down the line people will remember the big discussion about a discoloured figure where a variation collector insisted it was a real. It’ll be referred to as extra ‘proof’ that all variation collectors hunt out and are willing to spend prototype money on ink stained, discoloured, tiny coo different figures, when we all know this is far from the truth.

I also agree that recently there has been an overkill of discolouration threads. I was surprised when I checked the boards today after not logging in for a week or so to see half a dozen threads discussing the same thing. I know discussions like these just annoy collectors who have seen it many times before (variation and non-variation guys alike). Hopefully this thread will ‘solve’ ‘the problem’
I was also a little surprised with the complaints about variations, threads & their collectors (especially on a site built around variation to fake weapon comparison). I know this is a bit off topic for this thread but I don’t understand why it’s okay to comment on how a collector chooses to pursue their chosen area of collecting. If a variant collector knows tiny changes in coo markings are often unimportant changes to the figure mould then why can’t they be collected? If someone sets out to have a collection of discoloured figures then fine. I might have my own opinions about it but I’m not going to criticise. If however they want a set of unique variants but are mistakenly buying discoloured figures then perhaps that’s not okay.
I’m also not too keen on “variations suck” posts, or “variation collecting is mad” sometimes followed by “hear hear” or “x2”s, or being called a “bad / annoying neighbour” Joe lol. I’m not about to lose sleep over it but it just creates the wrong atmosphere IMO and makes variation collectors feel more apathetic about contributing. There seems to have been a drop off over on RS of active variation guys posting after similar comments in threads about variation collecting. Over there a lot of variation threads IMO are now answered poorly, it would be a shame if in a year or so it was the same here on TIG.

Anyway, back on topic, my ‘favourite’ discoloured figure to be added to the list is the green Dengar pictured in the RS discoloration thread. I also quite like the metallic figures.
It has been suggested however (in that thread) that compiling a list of ‘Degradants / Transformants’ helps legitimise said figures and will make collectors waste more money trying to collect them. I guess it’s up to you Marco to make the judgement call...

Rog

snaggletooth wrote:

wbobafett wrote:

snaggletooth wrote:

It is definitely a variant mate as it has a unique COO, the only way you'll know if its discoloured is to compare it to another figure with the exact same COO. It could still be discoloured though but It's still a variant.

Thats definatley dangerous mate! A different coos doesnt say its a variant. Remember lots of steelmolds went together and can be stamped individually. Another coo doesnt mean another place of manufacture!

Ill check my ugnaughts when I have the time! There is indeed a few different haircolors...but nevertheless....BTT!

In my eyes it's a variant mate, even if its made at the same factory but with a different mold or newly stamped mold, as that produces a unique COO.

When i wrote my last post I didn't realize that within the collecting community the term variant was only associated with one figure per mold stamp.

That above statement is just the boundary's I personally put on my collection. I try and stay away from discoloured figs but different positions COO's are in.

I still think this is a great thread and would be a shame if people chose not to share this information. Once all the information is out there then its up to the collector to decide what's worthy of a place in there's.