The Imperial Gunnery Forum


International Vintage Star Wars Collector Forum
 
HomeTIG.comSearchRegisterLog in

Share
 

 Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 6, 7, 8 ... 11, 12, 13  Next
AuthorMessage
snaggletooth
Grand Moff
Grand Moff
snaggletooth

Posts : 997
Join date : 2010-12-06
Location : North Wales

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 03, 2012 5:41 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:
I added the underlined text on the 1st page. Is this more clear now?

@Dr Dengar wrote:

Look at the left prune Face below. The green paint which is mixed within the plastic of the legs, is composed of yellow and blue pigments. The yellow pigments have degraded more over the course of time. We see two things: the green is shifted to blue (less yellow), and the colour is less intense (faded).

------------------------------------

@snaggletooth wrote:

Maybe yellowing is the wrong word to Marco but Proonface's legs are molded in green plastic and not painted. That's the same type of discouloration as the Stormtrooper turning yellow is it not?

No it is not. Very Happy I added some underlined text as well, to hopefully make it more clear.

@Dr Dengar wrote:


Yellowing is something else then discoloration. It is caused by chemical oxidation reactions within the plastic (not the pigments within the plastic!), either spontaneously or initiated by visible/UV light or heat. And once started probably accelerated by temperature fluctuations and humidity. To make a long story short, in the end you have more molecules in the plastic which absorb blue light giving the plastic a yellow appearance. The chemical reaction can even proceed further, meaning that in the end plastics can even turn pink.


Ok so figures can discoulor or yellow or both?

@Dr Dengar wrote:
@snaggletooth wrote:


Maybe yellowing is the wrong word to Marco but Proonface's legs are molded in green plastic and not painted. That's the same type of discouloration as the Stormtrooper turning yellow is it not?

True, I meant the green paint mixed within the plastic. Is paint the wrong word in this case? If it is unclear, how to describe it better?

I think the "colouring agents" works fine for both but you need to add "within the plastic" after it to make it clear.

The green colouring agents within the plastic of the legs is composed of yellow and blue pigments

Different pigments in the colouring agents within the plastic are expected to have a different vulnerability towards light induced and/or chemical degradation
Back to top Go down
Chris_J
Force Addict
Force Addict
Chris_J

Posts : 4227
Join date : 2009-11-19
Age : 48
Location : US

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 03, 2012 5:45 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:
@snaggletooth wrote:


Maybe yellowing is the wrong word to Marco but Proonface's legs are molded in green plastic and not painted. That's the same type of discouloration as the Stormtrooper turning yellow is it not?

True, I meant the green paint mixed within the plastic. Is paint the wrong word in this case? If it is unclear, how to describe it better?

Its called pigment. You can go to any paint store and they'll tell you the same thing. Thats a simple one. Its an Optimis Prime. Oh sorry, thats a Transformer. lol!

And by the way, a friend of mine had a duck they called Gus. cheers
Back to top Go down
http://alter-egos.forumotion.com/
Dr Dengar
TIG Benefactor
TIG Benefactor
Dr Dengar

Posts : 7048
Join date : 2010-05-07
Age : 48
Location : The Netherlands

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 03, 2012 5:45 pm

@snaggletooth wrote:


Ok so figures can discoulor or yellow or both?


Yup, these are two separate processes!!
Back to top Go down
http://TantiveXI.com
Dr Dengar
TIG Benefactor
TIG Benefactor
Dr Dengar

Posts : 7048
Join date : 2010-05-07
Age : 48
Location : The Netherlands

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 03, 2012 5:53 pm

@Chris_J wrote:
@Dr Dengar wrote:

True, I meant the green paint mixed within the plastic. Is paint the wrong word in this case? If it is unclear, how to describe it better?

Its called pigment. You can go to any paint store and they'll tell you the same thing. Thats a simple one. Its an Optimis Prime. Oh sorry, thats a Transformer. lol!

So something like: The green pigment which is mixed within the plastic of the legs, is composed of yellow and blue pigments. :scratch:

@Chris_J wrote:

And by the way, a friend of mine had a duck they called Gus. cheers

lol!
Back to top Go down
http://TantiveXI.com
snaggletooth
Grand Moff
Grand Moff
snaggletooth

Posts : 997
Join date : 2010-12-06
Location : North Wales

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 03, 2012 6:02 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:


Yellowing is something else then discoloration. It is caused by chemical oxidation reactions within the plastic (not the pigments within the plastic!), either spontaneously or initiated by visible/UV light or heat. And once started probably accelerated by temperature fluctuations and humidity. To make a long story short, in the end you have more molecules in the plastic which absorb blue light giving the plastic a yellow appearance. The chemical reaction can even proceed further, meaning that in the end plastics can even turn pink.


I've had a leah and stormtrooper where the limbs have gone slightly pink but without going yellow first, is that also yellowing to then?
Back to top Go down
Chris_J
Force Addict
Force Addict
Chris_J

Posts : 4227
Join date : 2009-11-19
Age : 48
Location : US

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 03, 2012 6:04 pm

In a way, yes. Or you could say it was dye, since plastic is originally clear. So when you add a color to it, your dyeing it. When you mix paint together, your adding pigments to it. Take it from someone whos been dealing with construction work for awhile whos dealt with things like that. Colors fade and materials deteriate. Thats why you always hear that the brick on 100 year old buildings are deteriating away and that the plastic used outside on a sign has sun faded.


Last edited by Chris_J on Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
http://alter-egos.forumotion.com/
Chris_J
Force Addict
Force Addict
Chris_J

Posts : 4227
Join date : 2009-11-19
Age : 48
Location : US

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 03, 2012 6:05 pm

Scott, what was those 2 figures laying next to? Anything red, by chance?
Back to top Go down
http://alter-egos.forumotion.com/
snaggletooth
Grand Moff
Grand Moff
snaggletooth

Posts : 997
Join date : 2010-12-06
Location : North Wales

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 03, 2012 6:12 pm

@Chris_J wrote:
In a way, yes. Or you could say it was dye, since plastic is originally clear. So when you add a color to it, your dyeing it. When you mix paint together, your adding pigments to it. Take it from someone whos been dealing with construction work for awhile whos dealt with things like that. Colors fade and materials deteriate. Thats why you always hear that the brick on 100 year old buildings are deteriating away and that the plastic used outside on a sign has sun faded.

Hay Chris I'm not trying to dispute that its deterioration in any way I'm just trying to work out whats discoloration and whats yellowing.
Back to top Go down
snaggletooth
Grand Moff
Grand Moff
snaggletooth

Posts : 997
Join date : 2010-12-06
Location : North Wales

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 03, 2012 6:14 pm

@Chris_J wrote:
Scott, what was those 2 figures laying next to? Anything red, by chance?

Nothing red, just bagged separately and then bagged with all my other leah's or stormtroopers.
Back to top Go down
Chris_J
Force Addict
Force Addict
Chris_J

Posts : 4227
Join date : 2009-11-19
Age : 48
Location : US

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 03, 2012 6:16 pm

The part you quoted was to Marco. Thats why I address you in the second post. If your figures were next to something red, like a clothe or the red trays in the carry case, the dye from them (yes I said dye) will bleed into the figures and make them pink like that. Ok, with your last post, are they childhood or from someone else making it that you dont know for sure? Im just trying to help you get your answer by NOT confusing you.
Back to top Go down
http://alter-egos.forumotion.com/
snaggletooth
Grand Moff
Grand Moff
snaggletooth

Posts : 997
Join date : 2010-12-06
Location : North Wales

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 03, 2012 6:24 pm

@Chris_J wrote:
The part you quoted was to Marco. Thats why I address you in the second post. If your figures were next to something red, like a clothe or the red trays in the carry case, the dye from them (yes I said dye) will bleed into the figures and make them pink like that. Ok, with your last post, are they childhood or from someone else making it that you dont know for sure? Im just trying to help you get your answer by NOT confusing you.

I understand where your coming from Chris, they where both from lots I'd picked up, something I thought was interesting is that I have also seen another Leah with pink limbs, worse than mine but she was sealed in a baggie and was also was the same figure.
Back to top Go down
Dr Dengar
TIG Benefactor
TIG Benefactor
Dr Dengar

Posts : 7048
Join date : 2010-05-07
Age : 48
Location : The Netherlands

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 04, 2012 1:26 am

@Chris_J wrote:
In a way, yes. Or you could say it was dye, since plastic is originally clear. So when you add a color to it, your dyeing it. When you mix paint together, your adding pigments to it. Take it from someone whos been dealing with construction work for awhile whos dealt with things like that. Colors fade and materials deteriate. Thats why you always hear that the brick on 100 year old buildings are deteriating away and that the plastic used outside on a sign has sun faded.

Thanks Chris. Very Happy

I wrote this now.

@Dr Dengar wrote:

Most paints are composed of different pigments, e.g. green (yelow+blue), orange (red+yellow), purple (red+blue). Each pigment within a paint has a different vulnerability towards degradation by UV/visible light and chemical degradation. The paint can be applied to the surface of the plastic figure, or mixed through the plastic. For instance Han Solo molded legs (black paint is mixed through the plastic), and Han Solo painted legs (black paint on top of white plastic legs). Other examples are Luke Jedi molded and painted face, General Madine molded and painted face.

Back to top Go down
http://TantiveXI.com
Dr Dengar
TIG Benefactor
TIG Benefactor
Dr Dengar

Posts : 7048
Join date : 2010-05-07
Age : 48
Location : The Netherlands

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 04, 2012 1:31 am

@snaggletooth wrote:


I've had a leah and stormtrooper where the limbs have gone slightly pink but without going yellow first, is that also yellowing to then?

In a technical sense YES. Colourless white plastic reacts chemically in a way that it starts to get colour (yellow, pink). I don't know whether plastic which turns pink first has to go through a yellow phase.
Back to top Go down
http://TantiveXI.com
Lee_m
Imperial Commander
Imperial Commander
Lee_m

Posts : 430
Join date : 2010-01-03
Location : Norfolk, UK

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 04, 2012 6:33 am

Just wanted to throw this snaggletooth picture into the mix to get a perspective on
belt colours. Picture isn't great but... The 2 top left are both HK coo - grey/silver belt on the left, white on the right.

The 2 top right are both half scar snags, both with white belt (notice painted and unpainted cuffs same as HK)

The bottom row are all full scar no coo's in no particular order but all variants in one way or another.

The 1st and 3rd from the left are grey/silver, the rest are white.

Now, i am/was a believer in white and grey/silver buckle but, after getting mine out for this picture,
the 3 grey ones i would say could have gone that colour from white to grey. Maybe some of the
white belt paint was mixed with the black of the belt making the grey?

Only a theory but....who knows?

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Picture821[i]
Back to top Go down
wbobafett
Force Addict
Force Addict
wbobafett

Posts : 2515
Join date : 2009-11-20

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 04, 2012 8:11 am

you ever noticed some metallic pigments in your belt color???

I would believe you if you say yes Lee my friend but I doubt that the color on these can called "silver"!!!

I agree that some look greyish, because of:
1. Sprayed thin...black underneath looks through
2. Color can be not real white or maybe really mixed up because the black wasnt that dry!!
Back to top Go down
aussiejames
Admin
Admin
aussiejames

Posts : 7731
Join date : 2009-11-12
Age : 46
Location : Western Australia

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 04, 2012 8:24 am

@wbobafett wrote:


I agree that some look greyish, because of:
1. Sprayed thin...black underneath looks through
2. Color can be not real white or maybe really mixed up because the black wasnt that dry!!

@aussiejames wrote:
I think not enough white paint was applied on the dots making the black show through & look grey or the white paint was applied when the black paint was not dry and became grey?
Shocked


these are great:
Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Swfslukebespin
Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 IMG_12512
Back to top Go down
Lee_m
Imperial Commander
Imperial Commander
Lee_m

Posts : 430
Join date : 2010-01-03
Location : Norfolk, UK

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 04, 2012 9:14 am

@wbobafett wrote:
you ever noticed some metallic pigments in your belt color???

I would believe you if you say yes Lee my friend but I doubt that the color on these can called "silver"!!!

I agree that some look greyish, because of:
1. Sprayed thin...black underneath looks through
2. Color can be not real white or maybe really mixed up because the black wasnt that dry!!

No, i was using the word silver broadly speaking as others have mentioned silver before Wink

Mine are greyish - you just explained it all better than me!
Back to top Go down
_Rog_
Imperial Officer
Imperial Officer
_Rog_

Posts : 105
Join date : 2010-11-05
Age : 44
Location : Wirral, UK

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 04, 2012 10:21 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:

Most paints are composed of different pigments, e.g. green (yelow+blue), orange (red+yellow), purple (red+blue). Each pigment within a paint has a different vulnerability towards degradation by UV/visible light and chemical degradation. The paint can be applied to the surface of the plastic figure, or mixed through the plastic.
I have no knowledge of the colouring process of these figures but shouldn’t we think of it more like printer ink? Cyan, Magenta, Yellow rather than Red, Yellow, Blue? Eg. A subtractive color model?

Ugnaughts cape: 'Neutral' coloured cloth dyed blue - magenta & cyan (1:1?). The cyan 'fades' leaving a magenta cape. – I think it’s almost certainly the case here.

Dengar painted torso: Dark purple made from magenta, some cyan and some yellow (2:1:1?). This time the magenta fades leaving the paint green?

Luke / Rebel Soldier & Commander / Bossk painted legs & feet: Brown made from magenta, yellow & some cyan (I’m not great on the exact brown mixes but something like 2:2:1 or 1:2:1?). Magenta fades leaving green again?
Here there may also be some "Yellowing" which is something different to pigment fade? – eg yellowed Stormies.

Luke Bespin: Light brown plastic 2M:2Y:1C. Some yellow goes leaving James' purple guy!?!

Luke Orange Hair Wink : Brown 2M:2Y:1C – Cyan fades leaving a nice red haired Luke (not 100% serious here but something to think about) tongue

Again, no proof that this is how it works, just an alternative way of looking at it!

Rog.




Edit: Just to make it clear that I don't think Kenner used, or that there are, only three pigments Cyan, Magenta & Yellow, but that looking at discolouration using this printer ink analogy is better than thinking of it in terms of Red, Yellow & Blue.


Last edited by _Rog_ on Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:35 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
Dr Dengar
TIG Benefactor
TIG Benefactor
Dr Dengar

Posts : 7048
Join date : 2010-05-07
Age : 48
Location : The Netherlands

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 04, 2012 10:50 am

Rog, this is the kind of input I was hoping for. Thanks on your way. Very Happy

The model I proposed seems a bit too simple to explain all colour changes, your subtractive colour model does a much better job.

The underlying mechanism - colour change by selective degradation of different pigments - stays the same. You agree?

Time to adjust the first post a bit.
Back to top Go down
http://TantiveXI.com
_Rog_
Imperial Officer
Imperial Officer
_Rog_

Posts : 105
Join date : 2010-11-05
Age : 44
Location : Wirral, UK

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 04, 2012 11:04 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:
The underlying mechanism - colour change by selective degradation of different pigments - stays the same. You agree?

Yup, I agree. Your theory's sound IMO Smile

Rog.
Back to top Go down
wbobafett
Force Addict
Force Addict
wbobafett

Posts : 2515
Join date : 2009-11-20

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 04, 2012 2:22 pm

@_Rog_ wrote:
@Dr Dengar wrote:
The underlying mechanism - colour change by selective degradation of different pigments - stays the same. You agree?

Yup, I agree. Your theory's sound IMO Smile

Rog.

....as I wrote a hundreds years ago: some pigmnets are more instabil then other!s......agreed 100%!!! I have pretty good knowledge about oilbased colors...but not sure which pigments are used on plastics!

If someone knews......I know pretty much about pigments....just post or drop me a line!!!

(seriously.....if you have chemical informations....not "standard fantasy" names about pigments used for Kenner toys......just let us know!)
Back to top Go down
Dr Dengar
TIG Benefactor
TIG Benefactor
Dr Dengar

Posts : 7048
Join date : 2010-05-07
Age : 48
Location : The Netherlands

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 07, 2012 6:08 am



@Rog: Added the subtractive color theory in the Introduction.

@Chris: Consequently used "Transformants/Degraded Figures" in the headings, so there is no chance for misinterpretation.

@Wolff: Good idea trying to get some input about the pigments which were used to paint the figures. Maybe that helps us to understand why some colour chances happen during time.
Back to top Go down
http://TantiveXI.com
wbobafett
Force Addict
Force Addict
wbobafett

Posts : 2515
Join date : 2009-11-20

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 07, 2012 1:03 pm

@_Rog_ wrote:
@Dr Dengar wrote:

Most paints are composed of different pigments, e.g. green (yelow+blue), orange (red+yellow), purple (red+blue). Each pigment within a paint has a different vulnerability towards degradation by UV/visible light and chemical degradation. The paint can be applied to the surface of the plastic figure, or mixed through the plastic.
I have no knowledge of the colouring process of these figures but shouldn’t we think of it more like printer ink? Cyan, Magenta, Yellow rather than Red, Yellow, Blue? Eg. A subtractive color model?

Ugnaughts cape: 'Neutral' coloured cloth dyed blue - magenta & cyan (1:1?). The cyan 'fades' leaving a magenta cape. – I think it’s almost certainly the case here.

Dengar painted torso: Dark purple made from magenta, some cyan and some yellow (2:1:1?). This time the magenta fades leaving the paint green?

Luke / Rebel Soldier & Commander / Bossk painted legs & feet: Brown made from magenta, yellow & some cyan (I’m not great on the exact brown mixes but something like 2:2:1 or 1:2:1?). Magenta fades leaving green again?
Here there may also be some "Yellowing" which is something different to pigment fade? – eg yellowed Stormies.

Luke Bespin: Light brown plastic 2M:2Y:1C. Some yellow goes leaving James' purple guy!?!

Luke Orange Hair Wink : Brown 2M:2Y:1C – Cyan fades leaving a nice red haired Luke (not 100% serious here but something to think about) tongue

Again, no proof that this is how it works, just an alternative way of looking at it!

Rog.




Edit: Just to make it clear that I don't think Kenner used, or that there are, only three pigments Cyan, Magenta & Yellow, but that looking at discolouration using this printer ink analogy is better than thinking of it in terms of Red, Yellow & Blue.

Please please please totally forget this theorie!

1. The colors are not mixed on brown etc ...this would be throwing money out the window. Of course you can mix every color with CMY or RGB system. But nobody would do that! Ie brown pigments are the cheapest you can get.

2. It depends on the price of a pigment if its mixed (green colors are often mixed of blue and yellow)

3. Not mixed colors are more brilliant then mixed colors!

4. Which pigments can be used depends of the "index of refraction" of the medium (in this case plastic.
A good example in painting is chalk. If you use it in a waterbased color you have a white paint....if you use it in oil you get only a transparent paint....thats why there is no chalk oil paint. The refraction index is too close what makes it invisble!

5. Chemical reactions can do crazy stuff to pigments! You cannot just say orange gets reddish because the yellow goes out! You can get certain yellow pigments to red in certian reactions. Red to brown...green to blue.....white getting invisble.....etc! It depends on the chemical reaction.

6 Roughly you can say:
a) in Color mixtures one pigment or more can fade and the other not (like you said)
b) Colors can react chemically and transform into another color...fade....get transparent....etc
c) In color mixtures you can get one pigment "bleeding" out into deeper or other areas! You can often see it on Dengar. The red pigments are still kind of "movable"...they "bleed out" in time into other areas!

There is more...but I also have to say that my english is to bad to go deeper!

We need exact chemical describtion of the pigments! I have a lot of books were I can have a look what can happen to these pigments!!



Back to top Go down
_Rog_
Imperial Officer
Imperial Officer
_Rog_

Posts : 105
Join date : 2010-11-05
Age : 44
Location : Wirral, UK

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 07, 2012 4:13 pm

Hi Wolff,

As I tried to make clear in the mini-edit at the bottom of my post,

I know for example to get the Blue Ugnaught apron, Kenner (or whoever dyed the cloth) wouldn't have mixed Magenta & Cyan, they would have used Blue dye - mixing blue would have been silly!

I was using printer ink as an example to explain 'Subtractive Colour' or 'the CMYK colour model'?

I was proposing for example that:

White light hits Poch Bossk's feet! the 'pigment' in the paint (whichever was used) absorbs long wavelengths of the light (like Cyan ink would do), absorbs short wavelengths (like Yellow ink) but because something has gone wrong with the 'pigment' it no longer absorbs the medium wavelengths (like Magenta ink would do). Once this light is reflected back into our eyes, our brains 'see' Green!

I thought this Cyan, Magenta & Yellow model better explained why a blue apron went purple rather than the Red, Yellow & Blue model, which was the purpose of my post - not to suggest every figure had C,M,Y pigments (perhaps I should have been clearer previously).

Rog Smile
Back to top Go down
Rawlin
Grand Moff
Grand Moff
Rawlin

Posts : 993
Join date : 2011-01-17
Location : Sweden

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2012 1:53 pm

By request here it is, best pics I could get of it. And the sensorscope has had a sticker change.
Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Greenr2
Back to top Go down
http://www.leksaksdoktorn.se
Sponsored content




Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.    Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.  - Page 7 I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Discolored Figures But Were Afraid to Ask.

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 7 of 13Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 6, 7, 8 ... 11, 12, 13  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
The Imperial Gunnery Forum :: Vintage Star Wars Chat
-