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snaggletooth
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PostSubject: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 02, 2011 4:31 pm

Just wondering what Nein numb Variants people on here have and thought I'd share mine, I'm also interested in my 5th from the Left if anyone has any ideas on him, I'll get some pics of the COO's up soon.

from left to right.
(LL) LFL 1983, (RL) MADE IN HONG KONG (Larger Detail)
(LL) L.F.L 1983, (RL) MADE IN HONG KONG
(LL) NO COO (RL) L.F.L 1983, NO COO (Mexico/Lili Ledy/ESB)
(LL) NO COO (RL) L.F.L 1983, NO COO (Mexico/Lili Ledy/ESB)(unpainted mouth error)
(LL) L.F.L 1983, NO COO (Tri-Logo?)
(LL) LFL 1983, (RL) NO COO (smoothed over, only ONG visable)
Nein numb Variants 100911065
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pomse2001
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 02, 2011 4:48 pm

Hi snaggletooth, I love the pictures and the info. Sorry I can't help at the moment, because I do not know how many Nien Nunb I have at the moment.

I never thought there was so many variants of Nien Nunb, great work mate cheers
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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 02, 2011 11:02 pm


Nice overview Scott!

I especially like the Ledy figure with unpainted mouth. Not sure why you label this figure "Mexico/Lili Ledy/ESB" (I mean the "ESB" part).

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 03, 2011 3:44 am

@pomse2001 wrote:
Hi snaggletooth, I love the pictures and the info. Sorry I can't help at the moment, because I do not know how many Nien Nunb I have at the moment.

I never thought there was so many variants of Nien Nunb, great work mate cheers

Add them here when you get round to going through yours mate, I'm sure there must be a few more out there.
@Dr Dengar wrote:

Nice overview Scott!

I especially like the Ledy figure with unpainted mouth. Not sure why you label this figure "Mexico/Lili Ledy/ESB" (I mean the "ESB" part).

Cheers

I love the unpainted Numb to mate, I'm not sure about that label either and it should be ROTJ. Maybe copy and paste is the culprit, thanks for pointing that out.
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 03, 2011 4:07 am

Here are just a few of the Polish Unarticulated variations out there for your Nien Nunb enjoyment.

Nein numb Variants Polish_NienNunb_4-1

Cheers
Joe
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 03, 2011 4:26 am


Thanks for the pic Joe, some strange looking Numbs there mate Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 03, 2011 5:16 am

Nein numb Variants Nien_n11
IMO there are 5 variants, not including bootlegs Shocked Smile


Here's 1,2,3 & 5
I really don't like this 'name the variant game'
Nein numb Variants SDC12047-1


edit:
Nein numb Variants SDC12048
tape sealed baggie- number 1 variant (small font Hong Kong) which seems to be the most common, & an articulated bootleg Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 03, 2011 6:08 am

@snaggletooth wrote:


I love the unpainted Numb to mate,

Well Scott,...I also like the unpainted Numb, but...erh...I think there are also some limits, at least for me. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 03, 2011 6:23 am

I always love your pic posts Scott! They look awesome.
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 03, 2011 8:49 am

@Joseph_Y wrote:
Here are just a few of the Polish Unarticulated variations out there for your Nien Nunb enjoyment.

Nein numb Variants Polish_NienNunb_4-1

Cheers
Joe

WOW! Never knew there was so many of those things. The joys of bootlegs. Very Happy And that green one on top is freaky with the fish eyes.
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 03, 2011 3:43 pm

@aussiejames wrote:
Nein numb Variants Nien_n11
IMO there are 5 variants, not including bootlegs Shocked Smile


Here's 1,2,3 & 5
I really don't like this 'name the variant game'
Nein numb Variants SDC12047-1


edit:
Nein numb Variants SDC12048
tape sealed baggie- number 1 variant (small font Hong Kong) which seems to be the most common, & an articulated bootleg Suspect

Thanks for your input James, i have all the numb variants then as I think my figure(5th from left)is number 4 in the guide.

Please don't take this wrong as I'm not looking to argue or ofend and i'm always open to learn. Why don't you like 'name the variant game'? It's not a game to me and IMO the best way we can work out the history. I dont see what the problem is saying what figures where found mainly on what cards. If you or anyone else has good peice of information which you think may change my mind please do share this as I just can't see it.

@Dr Dengar wrote:
@snaggletooth wrote:


I love the unpainted Numb to mate,

Well Scott,...I also like the unpainted Numb, but...erh...I think there are also some limits, at least for me. Very Happy

Hi marco, the way i look at it is the word Variant is just another word for difference so IMO no matter how small the difference, if there is one then that makes it a variant and therefore has a place within the limits. Collectors can decide there own limits once they know all the info on what's out there.
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 03, 2011 6:49 pm

Scott , some of the reasons I don't like 'naming' variants were discussed here : https://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t3410-palitoy-and-pbp-figures
The other reasons are it causes arguments between variant collectors ( & then 1 or more stop posting ), it confuses the shit out of 'newer' collectors (myself included), sometimes we discuss things & during the discussion process incorrect things are mentioned & ebay sellers use this wrong info to increase values of their stuff. There are quite a few examples where variants have been incorrectly named for years & now we're stuck with this.

I agree with collecting anything with a difference but prefer to use the term "version" instead of variant when describing odd ball errors etc. But trying to define a 'variant' is impossible.

I still prefer 'European' variant over Tri/Pal or Tri/Mec or Tri/PBP etc.


Last edited by aussiejames on Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 03, 2011 11:45 pm

@snaggletooth wrote:

@Dr Dengar wrote:
@snaggletooth wrote:


I love the unpainted Numb to mate,

Well Scott,...I also like the unpainted Numb, but...erh...I think there are also some limits, at least for me. Very Happy

Hi marco, the way i look at it is the word Variant is just another word for difference so IMO no matter how small the difference, if there is one then that makes it a variant and therefore has a place within the limits. Collectors can decide there own limits once they know all the info on what's out there.

LOL Scott, you got me wrong here, the devil is in the detail here. Twisted Evil

Read carefully what you wrote including the small typo and you will understand: the love for the hobby can sometimes go too far. Very Happy



[justify]
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 04, 2011 10:29 am

@aussiejames wrote:
Scott , some of the reasons I don't like 'naming' variants were discussed here : https://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t3410-palitoy-and-pbp-figures
The other reasons are it causes arguments between variant collectors ( & then 1 or more stop posting ), it confuses the shit out of 'newer' collectors (myself included), sometimes we discuss things & during the discussion process incorrect things are mentioned & ebay sellers use this wrong info to increase values of their stuff. There are quite a few examples where variants have been incorrectly named for years & now we're stuck with this.

I agree with collecting anything with a difference but prefer to use the term "version" instead of variant when describing odd ball errors etc. But trying to define a 'variant' is impossible.

I still prefer 'European' variant over Tri/Pal or Tri/Mec or Tri/PBP etc.

I don't agree with most of what was said in that thread mate but I do believe that we can't work out all the information for all the figures out there. I also think we can work out a lot more than is thought, especially with the European figures. I'm not here to argue either I just want to find out where figures where made and where they where sent to be carded. We can't let history slip away from us just because a few collectors have fallen out with each other. IMO the technique used to remove Euro variant COO's is the Key to finding out where they where made, and cards are the best way of finding out where they where sent.

Your other reasons are the exact reason I set out to do this in the first place, the amount of wrong information out there is massive, what's wrong with working out the facts and then adding the information to my limelite for all to see. If you look at my variants all the labels without a ? are correct so how can it be said that it's impossible to work this information out.

IMO every figure with a difference is a variant, errors are errors and have there own place but are also different so are also variants, this is just the way I've allways thought about it since I started this collecting game.

Tri/pal etc is not ideal and why I label mine like I do but to only use the term European variant for all the euro figures is wrong IMO, how can Meccano/Palitoy/Parker/PBP/POCH etc all be classed under one term.


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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 04, 2011 10:50 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:
@snaggletooth wrote:

@Dr Dengar wrote:
@snaggletooth wrote:


I love the unpainted Numb to mate,

Well Scott,...I also like the unpainted Numb, but...erh...I think there are also some limits, at least for me. Very Happy

Hi marco, the way i look at it is the word Variant is just another word for difference so IMO no matter how small the difference, if there is one then that makes it a variant and therefore has a place within the limits. Collectors can decide there own limits once they know all the info on what's out there.

LOL Scott, you got me wrong here, the devil is in the detail here. Twisted Evil

Read carefully what you wrote including the small typo and you will understand: the love for the hobby can sometimes go too far. Very Happy



[justify]

Finnaly with ya mate and your probably right Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 04, 2011 10:58 am

Hi snaggletooth, I agree with you and support you about the variants cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 04, 2011 11:09 am

@pomse2001 wrote:
Hi snaggletooth, I agree with you and support you about the variants cheers

Thanks Lars, I'm glad I'm not the only one this makes scene to.
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 04, 2011 2:26 pm

[quote="snaggletooth
I don't agree with most of what was said in that thread mate but I do believe that we can't work out all the information for all the figures out there. I also think we can work out a lot more than is thought, especially with the European figures. I'm not here to argue either I just want to find out where figures where made and where they where sent to be carded. We can't let history slip away from us just because a few collectors have fallen out with each other. IMO the technique used to remove Euro variant COO's is the Key to finding out where they where made, and cards are the best way of finding out where they where sent.

Your other reasons are the exact reason I set out to do this in the first place, the amount of wrong information out there is massive, what's wrong with working out the facts and then adding the information to my limelite for all to see. If you look at my variants all the labels without a ? are correct so how can it be said that it's impossible to work this information out.

IMO every figure with a difference is a variant, errors are errors and have there own place but are also different so are also variants, this is just the way I've allways thought about it since I started this collecting game.

Tri/pal etc is not ideal and why I label mine like I do but to only use the term European variant for all the euro figures is wrong IMO, how can Meccano/Palitoy/Parker/PBP/POCH etc all be classed under one term.


[/quote]

History isnt slipping away. To me, it seems like its trying to be re-written lately. By that I mean coming up with new names (labels) and new catagories to place the figures in. Like Marco said, theres limits, and most of those lines are crossing into the obscene. Dont get me wrong, Im all for learning something new, but theres not much left out there to learn on the figures that hasnt been found out all ready. That includes where the figures were made (Hong Kong, Taiwan, China, Macau, Mexico, and Japan). Those are the main places they were made and then shipped out to all over the place to be packaged. As for the scar COO's, that was done most likely at the packaging areas where the figures was sent to.

So what are you saying Scott when you said cards are the best place to find out where the figures are made? The COOs on the back of the cards will say one of the above, so hows that going to help find out where the figures were made? Like Wolff said, no COO's have been found on various cards. So what are you going to do, start opening figures to see what COO is on it? Thats the only way you'll find out that info. And as I stated before, unless an actual factory worker who can come forward and say "yhea, we shipped these figures here and these there" no ones going to know for sure.

"Tri/pal etc is not ideal and why I label mine like I do but to only use the term European variant for all the euro figures is wrong IMO, how can Meccano/Palitoy/Parker/PBP/POCH etc all be classed under one term. "

Because they were sold in Europe. Very Happy Cant call them Kenner or US versions now can you?

And I completly agree with AJ on what he said. I looked the other day to see who was online here. There was 12 members, 3 guests, and 32 lurkers. What do those lurkers do? Lurk for info, and thats all they do. Then they go to Ebay and use all this mis-information thats thrown around to screw people out of their cash that dont come to sites like here or RS. Thats why we are trying to (or use to anyway) help guys like you, Tim Vader, curch, and the others with info to help you understand it and get rid of all this bad info. But like the other day in that one thread, we are now the bad guys. And I know what Ive said before and now will just get by passed like most of the threads I linked up to help out, but its cool.
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 04, 2011 3:47 pm

@Chris_J wrote:
[quote="snaggletooth
I don't agree with most of what was said in that thread mate but I do believe that we can't work out all the information for all the figures out there. I also think we can work out a lot more than is thought, especially with the European figures. I'm not here to argue either I just want to find out where figures where made and where they where sent to be carded. We can't let history slip away from us just because a few collectors have fallen out with each other. IMO the technique used to remove Euro variant COO's is the Key to finding out where they where made, and cards are the best way of finding out where they where sent.

Your other reasons are the exact reason I set out to do this in the first place, the amount of wrong information out there is massive, what's wrong with working out the facts and then adding the information to my limelite for all to see. If you look at my variants all the labels without a ? are correct so how can it be said that it's impossible to work this information out.

IMO every figure with a difference is a variant, errors are errors and have there own place but are also different so are also variants, this is just the way I've allways thought about it since I started this collecting game.

Tri/pal etc is not ideal and why I label mine like I do but to only use the term European variant for all the euro figures is wrong IMO, how can Meccano/Palitoy/Parker/PBP/POCH etc all be classed under one term.


History isnt slipping away. To me, it seems like its trying to be re-written lately. By that I mean coming up with new names (labels) and new catagories to place the figures in. Like Marco said, theres limits, and most of those lines are crossing into the obscene. Dont get me wrong, Im all for learning something new, but theres not much left out there to learn on the figures that hasnt been found out all ready. That includes where the figures were made (Hong Kong, Taiwan, China, Macau, Mexico, and Japan). Those are the main places they were made and then shipped out to all over the place to be packaged. As for the scar COO's, that was done most likely at the packaging areas where the figures was sent to.

So what are you saying Scott when you said cards are the best place to find out where the figures are made? The COOs on the back of the cards will say one of the above, so hows that going to help find out where the figures were made? Like Wolff said, no COO's have been found on various cards. So what are you going to do, start opening figures to see what COO is on it? Thats the only way you'll find out that info. And as I stated before, unless an actual factory worker who can come forward and say "yhea, we shipped these figures here and these there" no ones going to know for sure.

"Tri/pal etc is not ideal and why I label mine like I do but to only use the term European variant for all the euro figures is wrong IMO, how can Meccano/Palitoy/Parker/PBP/POCH etc all be classed under one term. "

Because they were sold in Europe. Very Happy Cant call them Kenner or US versions now can you?

And I completly agree with AJ on what he said. I looked the other day to see who was online here. There was 12 members, 3 guests, and 32 lurkers. What do those lurkers do? Lurk for info, and thats all they do. Then they go to Ebay and use all this mis-information thats thrown around to screw people out of their cash that dont come to sites like here or RS. Thats why we are trying to (or use to anyway) help guys like you, Tim Vader, curch, and the others with info to help you understand it and get rid of all this bad info. But like the other day in that one thread, we are now the bad guys. And I know what Ive said before and now will just get by passed like most of the threads I linked up to help out, but its cool.
[/quote]

I'm not trying to re-rite history at all Chris and I haven't come up with any new names (labels) or new catagories to place the figures in, All I've done is made it simple for me by adding the maker/distributor/1 known card back. I respect your oppinin mate and like I said before I'm not here to argue but I still have one of my own. To me there's still a lot to learn and I think the COO scars where made by altering the molds before the plastic was injected.

to answer your question's "So what are you saying Scott when you said cards are the best place to find out where the figures are made?"

I mean if we can work out where the COO's where removed we can work out where figures where made. Then by the card backs that these figures appear on we'll know who they where made for. I think with regards to what COO's are on the cards, arn't they they pretty accurate?

I know you quote Wolf saying "no COO's have been found on various cards" I know anything is possible with overstock etc but there is patterns to a lot of MOC's IMO and the figures that are found on them.

where you say "Because they were sold in Europe. Very Happy Cant call them Kenner or US versions now can you?" What I mean is Europian variants is fine when your talking about all the Europian variants but a lot of the time we can cut it down to Palitoy, Meccano, PBP etc so why not if that's what they are.

Also about the help you refer to in your last paragraph, I appreciate what you have done Chris and believe me when I say that I get it, because I really do and that's exactly what I'm trying to do, get rid of all this bad info. I just don't believe there can be a limit to variants when there is differences to be seen. Who can say where that limit is.




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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 04, 2011 4:39 pm

I have only one thing to say....
















Nein numb Variants Nien_nunb

My name is Nien NuNb bitches! lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 04, 2011 5:08 pm

Embarassed I learn some thing new every day Joe Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 04, 2011 5:24 pm

As far as I know of, the only COO that was removed in the mold was the smooth ones. The ones with scars were hand done. If I can hunt the thread down, Ill post it for you. I know its been brought up in the past before.

And for the re-writing history part, that wasnt directed to you solely. That is for anybody trying to relabel anything. I'll stick with the terminology thats been used for the last 30 years that the guys who put alot of time researching the stuff has used. Theres a guy on RS who tried to come up with new catagories for bootlegs. The only catagory those are is where they are from and/or gen. See what Im getting at with that? You start calling something new and it will all get confusing. Hope that clears that up some.

Heres a list for the known true variants to make this alot easier. These I do go by, even though the list needs to be updated. And it does list other companys besides Kenner like PBP, Meccano, and Palitoy. Anything beyond this, except the known Euro variants like Toltoys Jawa and a few others , is going over the line to me. Its a case of wanting something to be a variant when its not. Factory errors I wouldnt consider variants, to be honest, because you got to be careful with those in case the limbs have been swapped. Which has been known to be done with shady sellers on Ebay. And as for non-painted parts. Those could slip by unnoticed, but still doesnt make it a variant. All figures were hand painted using a paint mask so some couldve slipped by. The word variant just gets tossed around way to easy anymore compared to a few years ago.

http://theswca.com/textf/sw-figure-variations.html

And Joe, lol! . Good one, bud.
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 04, 2011 6:03 pm

Most importantly I want to support & encourage your passion for variants Scott but sometimes I think it's ill directed.
Firstly :
http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1072470/

"To determine where or when these figures appeared is in most cases nearly impossible."

yes not impossible, but do we really want to 'classify' a figure as eg. SW 12,20B,12E, ESB41A,E, ROTJ77A,B...... instead of Hong Kong small font Left thigh .

To do this properly you would need focus collectors like Craig T for every character to even come close to saying this figure from this mold was available on these 3 cards, but so was this figure variant & this figure..... Now Craig spent years on a Jedi character, imagine how long it would take on the SW characters?

The imperial gunnery weapons site tried to explain which cardbacks certain versions of weapons were released on- freakin impossible, & there are less weapons to worry about & you can see them in a MOC.

Why impossible? Because there is no set pattern, I wish I could find the Kenner employee quote. I'm pretty sure it was Tom N (the one with the coins for sale, & who was allowed to dumpster dive ) that said variants were randomn.

Paint errors, production flaws, short pours etc are NOT variants.( by all means collect them I do )
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 04, 2011 7:55 pm

I personally enjoy Scotts pics and variations. I think its awesome when anyone posts pics of anything on here. To me, no questions is a dumb question. No matter how many threads were brought up about whatever. I was scolded a few weeks ago and since then I really don't say to much. I was posting pics of things I had questions about and was basically told I was wasting me time and my thread was a waste of everyone elses time. Since then I linger and support but pretty much keep it at that. Keep up the good work Scott.

Joe
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Posts : 296
Join date : 2011-07-20
Age : 46
Location : Reading, PA

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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 04, 2011 8:28 pm

@curch wrote:
I was scolded a few weeks ago and since then I really don't say to much. I was posting pics of things I had questions about and was basically told I was wasting me time and my thread was a waste of everyone elses time. Since then I linger and support but pretty much keep it at that.

Joe


Hey Joe,
I wouldn't let a few peoples remarks turn you off to posting, if no one posted these boards would be dead & that wouldn't be good! I personally don't get why people on here act like it pains them to reply or leave snarky responses anyway. Post away, that's why I come to these boards!
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PostSubject: Re: Nein numb Variants   Nein numb Variants I_icon_minitime

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