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 Who likes yellowing figures??

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robbiezombbie
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PostSubject: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 13, 2011 11:48 pm

So for the past few weeks I have been religiously reading all about the theory and background of “Retrobrite”. The idea and theory behind retrobrite are great and genius at the same time. As I’m sure most of you on the forum already know the development behind retrobrite is for a different purpose but the concept is the same for toy collectors. I recently decided to test Retrobrite but, not the full mixing formula and methods the site provides. To save money I went my own route on formula and elements.

Below are pics of the beginning stages of my experiment and while my Luke wasn't yellowing too bad it serves as a easy base test.

I’ll also be posting updates daily (hopefully) of the progress. My guess is that with my straying from the “formula” I should see the results I want within (at the most) 3 days.

Lastly…Has anyone else tried retrobrite? If so what were your results? I’m also curious given the right elements if it could reverse the yellowing bubbles on carded figures. I’m not sure the plastic is the correct kind to react with the chemicals though… That will have to be a topic for a different day.

Pic 1 is the figure striaght how I recieved him in the mail. No cleaning no nothing. Dirty and makered up. I lined up the yellowing figure with a pretty clean / white Luke for photo reference.
Pics #4, 2, and 3 are once I gave the figure a cleaning with soap and water and a bit of rubbing alcohol on the marker spots to lighten them up.
Pics 7,5, & 6 are 24 hour later photos. Tomorrow I'll have 48 hour later photos.
[img]Who likes yellowing figures?? Luke_o10[/img]
[img]Who likes yellowing figures?? Luke_s10
[/img]Who likes yellowing figures?? Luke_s11Who likes yellowing figures?? Luke_s12
Who likes yellowing figures?? Luke_s14 Who likes yellowing figures?? Luke_s13
Who likes yellowing figures?? Luke_s15[img]
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aussiejames
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PostSubject: Re: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 14, 2011 12:38 am

@Rawlin wrote:
I have done a lot of experimentation and restoring yellowing of figures and ships the past year. Where the largest have been a Imperial Shuttle.


Who likes yellowing figures?? Xwing1
Who likes yellowing figures?? Xwing6
(A little proof of concept I did soon a year ago, where half is restored. My photoskills also evolved during this time lol)

Though I have trouble to see how this Boba and the "very" many others could get the exact same results with fading. Fading in sunlight should be a long process and yellowing should then occur before that, so far nothing I have had in for restoring that is yellowed have become a lighter color then it originally was, because adding the color yellow into the plastic does only darken colors.

It would though make sense if it was a trilogo boba that had started yellowing but since the coo is wrong it isn't. The problem that I see is that a dark blue figure does not get bright blue by yellowing, instead it would become green.

The source of the yellowing I believe is flame protective chemicals which cause the yellowing to exposure to heat, uv-light and many other factors. This was used in all vintage toys sadly. It was also poorly mixed resulting in some yellowing faster then others, and even different parts on the same figures yellowing at a faster speed.

So if fading really is the case and occur faster then yellowing it must be something special in Bobas paint that was used for the plastic, because I have seen very many yellowed figures with non faded paint.

I don't like yellowing figures if I can help it, but I hate chemically altered figures more.
The main issue with the reaction is that it is quite specific & yellowing is not from one specific factor (ie not just oxidation)
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cantina_patron
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PostSubject: Re: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 14, 2011 5:04 am

It bugs me to have figures with yellowing in my collection. However, I would rather have a slightly off colour stormtrooper than one which has been chemically 'restored' as to the best of my knowledge no one knows what long term harmful effects the treatment can have on the plastics. Also some sellers will be tempted to do it in order to increase the value of the figures (but not disclose the restoration).
I have heard of people using Hydrogen peroxide solution, but apparantly the plastics can turn yellow again within a matter of months.
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robbiezombbie
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PostSubject: Re: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 14, 2011 10:05 am

I believe it is true there is no solid reason why the plastics turn yellow or what not but everything I have read or heard is the yellowing is based off the CHEMICALS in the plastic that were used to make the toy, mixing with other natural element such as the sun or UV rays. I personally do not see a concern with using natural agents (Chemicals) to reverse this process even if the effects are only temporary (for some ones personal collection).

The word CHEMICAL is used and looked at like a Scarlet Letter. Sure there are chemicals that are stronger and more “harmful” than others. I don’t know what other people used for their solution but I didn’t use any CHEMICAL that is “harmful” or “dangerous”. Besides…If you think about it, anyone who gives their toys a cleaning with a brush and soapy water is using chemicals to do so. Although this might come as a devastating blow to the genitals, there really are chemicals in hand soap & dish soap. jawdrop

And please don’t get me wrong, I’m not doing this experiment so I can turn around and sell stuff because it’s going to make me millions. I didn’t even have a yellowing loose figure to do this. I had to break down and buy one.
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pomse2001
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PostSubject: Re: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 14, 2011 11:10 am

Great thread guys. I also have some yellow figures and ships.

I would love to see them white again.
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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 14, 2011 12:03 pm

In this thread https://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t3379-everything-you-always-wanted-to-know-about-discolored-figures-but-were-afraid-to-ask, Dr Dengar wrote:

Yellowing
Yellowing is something else. It is caused by chemical oxidation reactions within the plastic (not the pigments!), either spontaneously or initiated by visible/UV light or heat. And once started probably accelerated by temperature fluctuations and humidity. To make a long story short, in the end you have more molecules in the plastic which absorb blue light giving the plastic a yellow appearance. The chemical reaction can even proceed further, meaning that in the end plastics can even turn pink.


Can it be reversed?
In general: Degradation of pigments is caused by light and/or chemical reactions.
It can not be reversed, we are talking irreversible chemical reactions. It is like rebuilding burnt trees from their ashes.

Yellowing can be reversed by strong oxidizing agents like hydrogenperoxide or bleach. Basically you destroy the newly formed molecules which absorb the blue light. You end up with a bright white figure. However by doing so, the plastic is exposed to some aggressive oxidizing agents, thereby laying the seeds for (even more) future yellowing. On different fora, I have seen pictures of yellow Stormtroopers becoming minty white after a peroxide bath. Always amazing to see, but I would like to see pictures of the same treated Stormtroopers 2 years later. The treatment might be worse than the illness in this case.


I would be vey carefull using oxidizing chemicals (peroxides, bleach,..) to restore yellowed figures.

Did you dip your figure into Retrobrite? It contains an active peroxide as well.

In that case I am very curious to see the results after one year from now. if the figure is still white there is probably no harm in doing so, but I doubt. Very Happy


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robbiezombbie
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PostSubject: Re: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 14, 2011 1:45 pm

For my testing I didn’t go with the full Retro formula. I only used 12% Hydrogen Peroxide and perfume & dye free Oxy Clean as the catalyst. Luke has been sitting in a jar, in a box lined with foil with a non heat emitting reptile UV light shining down on him. I personally didn’t feel it necessary to make the actual gel as the site suggests. I figured it would have been a waste of extra money and time. Plus I can re-use the solution if I ever wanted.

Once I’m at the stage I want with the white, I will wipe him with some armor all to step up UV protection for the future. And to go further with the experiment, I will sit this Luke with my others and post new pics throughout the year. No special placement for him either, he will get just as much exposure to the regular elements as all his buddies on the shelves as well.

So far there has been zero loss of gloss to the shine of the figure. And there has also been zero effect to any of the other colors of the figure, painted or molded.
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Dr Dengar
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PostSubject: Re: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 14, 2011 2:26 pm

@robbiezombbie wrote:


Once I’m at the stage I want with the white, I will wipe him with some armor all to step up UV protection for the future.


UV light only helps to initiate the yellowing proces. Once the chain reaction in the plastic (causing the yellowing) has started, the yellowing continues even in the dark. For example, my childhood MTV-7 and MLC-3 were totally yellowed, 25 years after storage in the dark at my parent's place.

Please keep us updated about this interesting experiment, Rob!
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ratherchildish
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PostSubject: Re: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 16, 2011 6:35 pm

Interesting stuff. Definitely looking to see more.


Last edited by ratherchildish on Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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robbiezombbie
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PostSubject: Re: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 16, 2011 7:35 pm

I'm gonna post newer pics tonight since I missed out on posting them last night. Championship Midget Wrestling was in town last night and that took presedense over pictures. Hahaha
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robbiezombbie
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PostSubject: Re: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 17, 2011 5:30 pm

Here he is 48 hours later. I don't think I need to go for 72 hours. 48 seemed plenty. And like I stated before, No discolor or other paint colors, no loss of gloss.
Who likes yellowing figures?? 48_hou10
Who likes yellowing figures?? 48_hou11
Who likes yellowing figures?? 48_hou12
Who likes yellowing figures?? 48_hou14
Who likes yellowing figures?? Side_b10
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Johnny U
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PostSubject: Re: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 17, 2011 9:29 pm

Scary stuff...I'm very interested to see the long term effects. I personally don't want to own chemically altered figures, but thats's just me.
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pomse2001
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PostSubject: Re: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 18, 2011 3:59 pm

That is so cool mate, I also want to see how the figures look after 1 week, 1 month or more.
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robbiezombbie
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PostSubject: Re: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 07, 2012 10:42 pm

Well here's a update. almost 3 months later and still no changing back to yellowing. Sometime in January I did wipe the Luke up with a plain old Armor All wipe to help prevent any UV damage. Other than that he's been sitting on the shelf with the rest of his buddies.
The middle pic was taken with natural sunlight the other 2 with a flash and light box. This weekend I'll try and get another shot of him in natural light to compare better.
Who likes yellowing figures?? Side_b11
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Johnny U
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PostSubject: Re: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 08, 2012 5:24 pm

Yikes he's still white Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 09, 2012 10:50 am

welcome back robbiezombbie and thanks for sharing this with us.

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Rawlin
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PostSubject: Re: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 10, 2012 7:19 am

They don't turn back as some claim, at least not in my experience. Unless you threat them wrong, put them in the window and I'm sure they will get yellow eventually.
It does not prevent them from getting yellow again.
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PostSubject: Re: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 10, 2012 7:51 pm

I like the idea of minty white, but the long term effects worry me
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PostSubject: Re: Who likes yellowing figures??   Who likes yellowing figures?? I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 11, 2012 5:09 pm

I hope you will update again in 6 months a years etc. etc. to see if it changes back to yellow Very Happy
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