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The_Dark_Artist
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PostSubject: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 12:57 am

I am curious how many members here own a DT Luke Circle Variant? I did a study of his saber and wanted to post a report of my findings. I own this one and a regular DT Luke with letters on his hilt. The emphasis is the Circle Variant though (with no letters on the hilt). The color of his saber is more vibrant, and the plastic is different which makes most collectors think it's a fake. I don't! Bill McBride has examples in his collection also that date this back to a pre DT Luke. Examples in his collection are from DT Vadar and Luke. Curious of your thoughts....
One other question. I have two Early Bird Lukes with a mold line on the bottom of one foot. They match exactly. I checked my other Lukes and none have this, just the Early Birds. Does anyone know anything about these mold lines, or if your Early Bird Lukes have them also?
Thanks for looking and sorry for my crude renderings but they explain what I am seeing through a magnifying glass better. Pics also attached....
-Steve


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DT Luke Circle Variant Circle12

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wbobafett
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 3:00 am

You know, this DT saber is called "circled" varaint because it has slight cricles all over the saber,!!!
Not because it has some dents and dots on he handle/hilt!!

Here is a pic where you can assume this, but i also can see it on your example!
DT Luke Circle Variant IMG_011

Ill have one too (pictured one is mine) and Ill check for that foot thing later!


BTW: THIS AVATAR IS A RESULT FROM CHATTING LAST NIGHT!!! SO DONT MESS WITH THE MODS HERE!! lol!
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The_Dark_Artist
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 7:32 am

Yup, picture two shows the circles along the saber. Thanks. I always thought it was the markings on the hilt. By the way, they are not dents but very hard to see mold marks in the hilt.....
-Steve
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 8:07 am

Is it true Tom Derby won't grade these? My question is why? The point of my pics was to show the mold marks in the hilt. No repro saber has ever been made with those precise markings on it.
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 8:50 am

stevefdwyer wrote:
Is it true Tom Derby won't grade these? My question is why? The point of my pics was to show the mold marks in the hilt. No repro saber has ever been made with those precise markings on it.

I've never heard that before. If it's a legit saber, it gets graded. The way to tell a correct saber vs repro is in certain details that are almost impossible to get by someone who has it in hand , along with the documented knowledge.

If you were thinking of having Luke graded, I wouldn't let the saber stop you.

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The_Dark_Artist
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 9:21 am

I'm pretty sure Tom Derby won't grade these because of the plastic used in the circle variant saber is different from the DT saber with letters on the hilt. Talking to Bill McBride, he believes these were some of the early models leading up to the final DT saber. That's why I blew up on the small marks on the hilt (circle bump and inscription). I probably won't get it graded but heard of others that sent in similar ones got rejected. Now I never took a close look at those sabers and they may have been repro.... But I'm 100% positive mine is a legit Circle DT Saber.
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 9:40 am

stevefdwyer wrote:
But I'm 100% positive mine is a legit Circle DT Saber.

Famous last words........

If you want to be certain, have it looked at. If you can send really good macro photos (and I mean really good) , TIG can give you some idea on authenticity. Without having it in hand it won't be a definitive yes or no, but at least point you in a direction.

Don't assume anything. If you aren't an expert on DT sabers then you can't say you're 100% sure. It will absoluetly bite you in the rear at some point. Personally I'd like to know if I had a real saber, I wouldn't just want to believe I did.

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The_Dark_Artist
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 9:45 am

Bill McBride's word is good enough for me. I never said I was an expert and I appreciate the advice and comments. Don't want to get into a "nasty" debate either.... Not worth my time. I'd rather like to have a nice discussion.....
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 10:02 am

Steve I think you misunderstood my comment.

I simply meant to say that if there is ever any hint of doubt you should get it authenticated. If you didnt buy it from a known source, even more so. I'm sure Bill wouldnt give you a 100% all clear without seeing it in person.

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The_Dark_Artist
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 10:09 am

I see your point and I respect that. I'm sorry if I came across abrasive. I just thought the photos shown would be pretty reasonable proof but I understand without having an expert actually having it in hand leaves the possibilities of it being not real. Even though I truly believe it's legit...
Again, thanks for your opinion Smile
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 10:38 am

As John said, there are certain things that a real DT saber must demonstrate and possess in order for it to be real. Again, like John said, without it being in the hands of someone with this knowledge, you'll never know for certain.

Bill is certainly a good sounding board and is the first expert I would go to with any DT questions. But I'm sure he would agree that without it in hand, it's really tough to tell from just pics. You would need to take some tremendous macro shots with very specific angles.

I also know that Tom and Bill work closely together on DT's when there are questions. I think for definitive proof, you should send it in. You don't necessarily have to have it graded, but for me, it would be worth the peace of mind to know 100%. There are a LOT of very good fakes out there.
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 11:19 am

@Darthberizing wrote:
stevefdwyer wrote:
Is it true Tom Derby won't grade these? My question is why? The point of my pics was to show the mold marks in the hilt. No repro saber has ever been made with those precise markings on it.

I've never heard that before. If it's a legit saber, it gets graded. The way to tell a correct saber vs repro is in certain details that are almost impossible to get by someone who has it in hand , along with the documented knowledge.

If you were thinking of having Luke graded, I wouldn't let the saber stop you.

Its true to my knowledge! Afa and Tom dont grade those circled ones!

Rasmus said it too...have a look here:
http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1035381-6/

It could be that it has changed by now!

The circled ones are quite rare!!! They can cost double like a lettered one!!!

If its about authentification! The pictures Steve provided here look very good! IMO this is 100%!

There is no repros known with thse circles and every circle matches the example I have! Too much work if you can do a simple lettered one (if you ask me). In addition the surface and the color is spot on IMO!

Ill give it a go (means I would buy it if I would need one Wink )

Hope that hepls!!

Wolff

On a side note: AFA grades Repros...see Watch out area!! I would send it to Bill-McBright, if I would send it anywhere...... Wink
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 1:46 pm

A pic to show the circles on the outer shaft of the saber a little better....

DT Luke Circle Variant New_ci10
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 2:29 pm

I think the outer saber is probably ok, but the inner saber I have some questions about. That's just me though.

If you read Bill's latest reply over on RS, he sheds some light on the various issues of AFA, which we've discussed here.

Steve, I would still get Bill to take a very close look at your saber. I'm sure he would be more than happy to help you out. And if it is truly a pre-production saber as is being guessed at, the provenance of such a piece is very important.
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 2:34 pm

Good advice.
But why do you question the inner saber? It matches the color exactly as the outer saber. And it has the break point in the back as it should.....
-Steve
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 2:39 pm


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Last edited by Starwizz on Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 2:51 pm

Again, mine seems to match Wolff's exactly except for the small piece from the branch on the end of the inner saber....

DT Luke Circle Variant Circle12

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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 2:56 pm

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Last edited by Starwizz on Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 3:35 pm

@RebelChris wrote:



Steve, I would still get Bill to take a very close look at your saber. I'm sure he would be more than happy to help you out. And if it is truly a pre-production saber as is being guessed at, the provenance of such a piece is very important.

Its not preproduction.....its just a rare version and assumed to be the same as some preproduction sabers! Thats important IMO. These sabers are rare, but still they seem to be at last early production sabers!

I know the inner part is always dangerous. Its difficult to say that because they can be "cut" differnetly at the end! But In one of your pics steve I think I can see the same surface as on the outer saber. Also the color does match very good!

Imo its real....but sharp pics would help a lot!
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 4:00 pm

stevefdwyer wrote:
Good advice.
But why do you question the inner saber? It matches the color exactly as the outer saber. And it has the break point in the back as it should.....
-Steve

I'm not saying it's fake... so please don't think that. However, I am saying, that from my point of view there are some question marks on the inner saber. You say there's a break point in the back, however, I can't see it at all.

There are also some other smaller details on the inner saber that I'm not seeing in your photos that I would like to see. Again, I'm not saying it's fake or these aren't there. But from where I sit, looking at the photos you've provided, there isn't enough evidence for me to feel 100% comfortable with it. If it were my DT, I would definitely be doing what I could to get it checked out and verified.

I think an email to Bill asking some very honest questions with some very good photos would help ease your mind a lot. There is a lot of information about these sabers that Bill, Tom and very few others know about (on purpose). So definitely speaking openly and candidly with Bill is a great avenue to go down. All I can do is offer my very semi-educated opinion about DT Luke sabers. Wink

I also think it's important to remain calm in instances like these. Everyone here is trying to help you with your saber and providing you with a lot of opinions and thoughts. I'm not saying that you aren't calm (in fact you seem to be quite calm), I just thought it would be a good point to throw my two cents in on this point as we go forward. It can serve as a lesson and example to others out there if we all remain calm and look at this as a chance to gain knowledge and help each other learn.
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 4:02 pm

Where is the "like" button Very Happy

edit: Seriously Steve...Chris is right! Its never good to hear just one opinion on such things! I agree that the end is not looking good at all, but these were not broken of the tree...these were cut! And they can be cut quite differently.

Just get a good picture and show it to Bill (in this case one opinion is enough...well Bill is an extraordinary expert!)
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 4:05 pm

@wbobafett wrote:
@RebelChris wrote:



Steve, I would still get Bill to take a very close look at your saber. I'm sure he would be more than happy to help you out. And if it is truly a pre-production saber as is being guessed at, the provenance of such a piece is very important.

Its not preproduction.....its just a rare version and assumed to be the same as some preproduction sabers! Thats important IMO. These sabers are rare, but still they seem to be at last early production sabers!

I know the inner part is always dangerous. Its difficult to say that because they can be "cut" differnetly at the end! But In one of your pics steve I think I can see the same surface as on the outer saber. Also the color does match very good!

Imo its real....but sharp pics would help a lot!

I also think we are both right on this one Wolff. Here is Bill's quote on RS:

Bill McBride wrote:

There are only two known Vaders, and are both marked EPs. I don't think it means if another example surfaced it would mean it would automatically be a prototype, but I do think that
if another one did turn up, or a Ben, it's a high probability that it would be from a Kenner source and would most likely be an EP. At this point of product development, the figure itself
was finalized, and the only thing that did change was the saber. So finding an earlier stage prototype with this type of saber wouldn't really "match up". For Luke, I think there are a lot
more options to look at. I think would be entirely possible to find one in an EB kit, or as a sample baggie for example. I think that Luke was certainly a production figure, albeit a very early
one. At the same time, finding an EP Luke with this saber would also be expected and I'm actually surprised one hasn't surfaced.

The way I read this is that known examples of the circle saber have appeared on Engineering Pilot (EP) DT Vader's. And that while the Luke version could certainly show up in an Early Bird Kit (EB Kit) it's still a very early version of that figure. And that it's more likely still a "pre-production" phase for the saber.

Unless of course, I'm totally reading that wrong... which may be the case! lol!
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 4:08 pm

I just want to "save" Steve and Starwizz and other to think they have a preproduction item! You know what real once are worth......thats all I wanted to say Wink Very Happy

Its not a "real" premium, but on the other hand last on described as such sold for about 400 USD if I remeber right....maybe just a one-hit-wonder.......though

edit: And heck...why do I care...Bill said mine is c9 overall Very Happy Very Happy Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 4:26 pm

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Last edited by Starwizz on Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: DT Luke Circle Variant   DT Luke Circle Variant I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 28, 2011 4:27 pm

I totally agree. I appreciate all your opinions and help regarding this matter. Here are some pics. Let me know at all if these help with the inner saber mystery. Thanks again guys, -Steve
ps- If you have better ways of getting the shot of the back of the inner saber please give me your opinion. Thanks : )

DT Luke Circle Variant Final_10

DT Luke Circle Variant Final_11

DT Luke Circle Variant Final_12
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