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RebelChris
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PostSubject: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 4:14 pm

Since there were a few suggestions for a specific variation section on TIG in the recent discussion, I thought I'd put it to a vote and take the pulse of the community.

Personally, I don't think a separate section is needed, if we were to do that, then we might as well create a separate section for each category in vintage (bootleg, MOC, variations, John's favorite Underoo, etc.). I think it will kill conversation as a whole and lead to even more segregation which isn't good for the community as a whole.

I would, however, support creating a Variation Thread similar to how we do the Bootleg, LL Discussion and Recent Purchases threads, but I want to leave it up to you guys to pick.

I'm open for any other ideas that you guys may have.
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 4:17 pm

My vote goes for a thread personally rather than an entire new section. We've seen it before with other boards that have too many sections and spread themselves way too thin that it hurts them in the long run. However, I'll leave it for the TIGers that this applies with to decide.
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 5:04 pm

i think you should make a variation thread were people can post there pictures,theorys,questions and of course answers and facts.
much easier to find answers if its collected in one thread and you can lock the search function at it.
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 5:09 pm

My vote also goes towards a variant thread.
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 5:20 pm

A "Variation Thread" would be great! : )
-Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 5:23 pm

I don't see the point in submitting all possible variant questions into one Variant Thread.

One technical concern is that you will have difficulties securing the fast retrievability of the given answers.
Off course a compromise might be to have variants threads for each separate figure so the answer can be found in a somewhat smaller haystack.

Also it seems to me that in this way we are just combating the symptoms instead of the cause of the disease.
The debat which is currently going on here on TIG makes it clear that there are some issues between veterans and newer members. But the cause of this turmoil are not the variants threads per se, but rather the lack of (mutual) respect, openmindness, and ability to deal with criticism which seem to predominate the variant threads in the last half year. Deal with these aspects first before trying cosmetic solutions. Very Happy

As a side note: I don't see the point that members are driven away from the forum just by these pittyful variant threads. If I don’t like a thread, I just neglect it. Why step into dogshit if you can walk around it? Probably there are also some other reasons that some well known variant collectors have left the boards or post only very little. From my own personal experience the last weeks, I can think of a few things.


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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 5:28 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:
I don't see the point in submitting all possible variant questions into one Variant Thread.

One technical concern is that you will have difficulties securing the fast retrievability of the given answers.
Off course a compromise might be to have variants threads for each separate figure so the answer can be found in a somewhat smaller haystack.

Also it seems to me that in this way we are just combating the symptoms instead of the cause of the disease.
The debat which is currently going on here on TIG makes it clear that there are some issues between veterans and newer members. But the cause of this turmoil are not the variants threads per se, but rather the lack of (mutual) respect, openmindness, and ability to deal with criticism which seem to predominate the variant threads in the last half year. Deal with these aspects first before trying cosmetic solutions. Very Happy

As a side note: I don't see the point that members are driven away from the forum just by these pittyful variant threads. If I don’t like a thread, I just neglect it. Why step into dogshit if you can walk around it? Probably there are also some other reasons that some well known variant collectors have left the boards or post only very little. From my own personal experience the last weeks, I can think of a few things.



You run a variant thread yourself with the Ledy discussion. We very well could set it up just like yours with links to the individual figure discussions as they come up on the thread. I don't think it would be that different.
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 5:33 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:
I don't see the point in submitting all possible variant questions into one Variant Thread.

One technical concern is that you will have difficulties securing the fast retrievability of the given answers.
Off course a compromise might be to have variants threads for each separate figure so the answer can be found in a somewhat smaller haystack.

Also it seems to me that in this way we are just combating the symptoms instead of the cause of the disease.
The debat which is currently going on here on TIG makes it clear that there are some issues between veterans and newer members. But the cause of this turmoil are not the variants threads per se, but rather the lack of (mutual) respect, openmindness, and ability to deal with criticism which seem to predominate the variant threads in the last half year. Deal with these aspects first before trying cosmetic solutions. Very Happy

As a side note: I don't see the point that members are driven away from the forum just by these pittyful variant threads. If I don’t like a thread, I just neglect it. Why step into dogshit if you can walk around it? Probably there are also some other reasons that some well known variant collectors have left the boards or post only very little. From my own personal experience the last weeks, I can think of a few things.



We also tried a variant of the week thread with Uli, but that quickly died in 2010 by the looks of things.

VOW - Variant of the Week Threads

I agree that there's a larger issue at hand here, but I'm not sure there's an "easy" solution for it. This would be a way to appease both sides and possibly smooth the waters a little bit.

I'm open to ideas, which is what this thread is for. Hopefully we can come together as a community and iron this out.
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 5:39 pm

@shawn_k wrote:


You run a variant thread yourself with the Ledy discussion. We very well could set it up just like yours with links to the individual figure discussions as they come up on the thread. I don't think it would be that different.

That's true.

The discussions go from left to right in the LL thread. So what I do once a while is gathering all useful information from the newest discussions to update the figure entries which are hyperlinked at the first page.

It will be a challenge to organize a Variant Thread likewise, where possibly a lot more variants are discussed compared to the 50 discussed in the LL thread.

Well OK, let's think in solutions. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 6:04 pm

I may be and am probably wrong, but didn't someone already start a variant thread??
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 6:08 pm

@kisstour03 wrote:
I may be and am probably wrong, but didn't someone already start a variant thread??
Yep VOW (variant of the week) will probably get restarted, I'll even throw some bootlegs in there Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 6:10 pm

@aussiejames wrote:
@kisstour03 wrote:
I may be and am probably wrong, but didn't someone already start a variant thread??
Yep VOW (variant of the week) will probably get restarted, I'll even throw some bootlegs in there Smile

lol! lol! lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 6:11 pm

@aussiejames wrote:
@kisstour03 wrote:
I may be and am probably wrong, but didn't someone already start a variant thread??
Yep VOW (variant of the week) will probably get restarted, I'll even throw some bootlegs in there Smile

That's exactly what I meant. Maybe we get Uli back that way.

@Dr Dengar wrote:

Off course a compromise might be to have variants threads for each separate figure so the answer can be found in a somewhat smaller haystack.
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 6:16 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:
@aussiejames wrote:
@kisstour03 wrote:
I may be and am probably wrong, but didn't someone already start a variant thread??
Yep VOW (variant of the week) will probably get restarted, I'll even throw some bootlegs in there Smile

That's exactly what I meant. Maybe we get Uli back that way.

@Dr Dengar wrote:

Off course a compromise might be to have variants threads for each separate figure so the answer can be found in a somewhat smaller haystack.

I think a separate thread for each figure is the way to go or maybe one for each Movie, there's a lot of variants per figure, maybe an average of about 10 or so, that's about 800 without the POTF figs.
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 6:21 pm

It's a tricky one. :scratch:

On the one hand, I agree that creating too many sub-sections can ruin a forum. On the other hand, there are so many variants that a single thread would become extremely unwieldy. You'll end up in the classic situation where the same thing gets discussed again and again in the same thread because the thread becomes so long that no one reads what has come before.

There would be two reasons to have a separate section for variants. The first is to keep it off the main board as lots of people don't like it. The second is to have a more organised and accessible place for people to find and add information. The first can be achieved with either a section or a single thread. The second would probably require it's own section (imho)

For the record, I would vote for a separate section (I say that as someone who is extremely interested in variants.) but I fully acknowledge that my vote shouldn't count for much. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 6:26 pm

I just wanted to add that I think the ideas of having a thread for each figure and sections for each movie are ones I agree with. Looking at it purely in terms of convenience, I think a sub-forum for variants, divided into Star Wars, Empire, Jedi and Last 17 figures and then a thread for each figure within those sections would be fairly intuitive.

You are still left with the risk of spreading discussion between too many sections, but I'm sure wiser heads than mine will make the correct decision here.

-J
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 6:35 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 6:54 pm

Heres my take on it all.

1. Should there be a special section on variations?

NO. We tried that concept on RS and it went no where. My reason why it shouldnt be is if there was, alot of people wouldnt go to that section that do know the answer to the questions asked. Then where will everybody be? thinking that every discolored and re-painted figure was original like now. And that would be disastrous to the hobby and for the next new guy/gal who shows up.

Solution:

Every thread that pops up for a certain figure combine them into one. that way we dont have to see 20 posts on the same thing over and over. And if someone decides to make a new one, show them the original one and move the link to it. If it happens again, use your imagination. Make a new sticky with the links in it for anybody to find. That way it would all be combined in one almost like its own section without making a new section.

2. If there is a new section started, where would it end?

It would be endless cause you would have to have a section for everything. Look at bootlegs. The would have to be a seperate section for the Polish Unarts, 1st Gen, 2nd Gen, etc, etc. That would be a waste of forum space to do sections for everything. Just like making sections for figures by movies. Total waste.

Solution:

Theres already plenty of threads started for certain areas. Theres one for bootlegs, comics, G.I. Joes etc. And as far as I can see theres no problem with that. and theres also a thread for discolored figures going I help Marco with. Why couldnt all those questions on that not go into that thread to save space?

3. Will everybody go into a variation area?

No, not everybody will. The only ones who will will be the ones who are asking and those who will be answering. And those who wont do either will stay away from those threads. I have no problem with variants, as long as its an actual variant, not one of these so-called or want to be's. Ill still give my opinion on them when I know the answer to the question like always. The more help out there the better in the long run.

Solution:

There really isnt one for that. If you dont want to talk about variants, dont. Simple as that. If I see a thread Im not inerested in, I dont even look in it. Why should I? I dont have anything to say on the subject, so why put my 2 cents/pence into it. Even though it looks cool, and I dont know anything about it, why should I comment on it. If I cant answer the OP's question, no need in saying anything. And I know alot say they dont like a certain area, but I can guarentee, they still look to see whats going on. Very Happy Curiosity gets the best of them in the end.
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 8:02 pm

I realise I'm new to the foram & my opinion may not count for much, but:
Variant collecting is clearly a growing area of the hobby & a natural thing to get into once you have a collection of all the basic figures. (That's how I got started).
Reference has already been made to 'Variant Of The Week'. When VOW started I was quite excited because I hoped it would build into a source of reference for those variants deliberately produced by the factories. I have only recently learnt Uli has left which explains why VOW has not developed further. A lot of what he started has been suggested here this evening.
If the work started by Uli could be continued it may be possible to build up a database combining COO, sculpting & intented paint apps. for each character (along the lines of what has been done for Ledy figures). If someone still believed they have something different or needs to ask a question not answered there they could post it in the normal way for all to see.
I realise this would be a massive undertaking, but if this were possible, and people actually used it, the issue with the same questions on this subject regularly coming up may be partly addressed. While I am sure there would be plenty of contributors, the bigger issue with this is who would be willing to orchestrate it.

For those interested in differences caused to figures post production, by degrading etc. there is already a discussion thread for you to use. Perhaps it could be made a sticky.


Last edited by cantina_patron on Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:42 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 27, 2012 9:42 pm

So I'm getting a vibe that a separate section would be a good thing. I'm also getting a vibe that restarting the variant if the week threads would be a good thing as well.

I would still like some opinion and debate in this. I know which way the mod team is leaning but I still want more consensus from the rest of the board before we put anything into motion.

I am NOT in favor of a separate thread for each figure or line. Unless its in a controlled environment like VOW or something similar.

We still need to iron out some details but I think it could work. It would also take a single person to keep things organized and on track. So who ever did this would A) have to be patient and be able to stay on top of things and B) keep the amount if threads/questions reined in. They wouldn't be a mod but a community member.

If we started a separate section there would have to be enough discussion and topics in order to make it thrive, which I font know that there would be.
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 28, 2012 9:34 am

section or thread/threads
i will be glad one way or the other,im not a variant collector but i love to collect the ones i can see the difference right on.
so i will read and look at every post on the subject to try to educate me.
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 28, 2012 12:17 pm

I don't relly have any thing to say about all this . I like TIG and you guys as your are .

One thing i use very much is the "View posts since last visit" that are on main page https://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/

But i "always" come in though a email to a thread that i follow . So when i'm done reading it . I have to go to the main page and then click on the "View posts since last visit" to go to the list . If that butten was on the toolbar i would save a page view .

And the people that feel there are to many noob posts here can easy see and skip all the post they don't like in one page Very Happy And quick be on there way to the all the other forums that don't have any noob questions at all. Instead of hanging out with all us noobs

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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 28, 2012 2:41 pm

@RebelChris wrote:
So I'm getting a vibe that a separate section would be a good thing. I'm also getting a vibe that restarting the variant if the week threads would be a good thing as well.

I would still like some opinion and debate in this. I know which way the mod team is leaning but I still want more consensus from the rest of the board before we put anything into motion.

I am NOT in favor of a separate thread for each figure or line. Unless its in a controlled environment like VOW or something similar.

We still need to iron out some details but I think it could work. It would also take a single person to keep things organized and on track. So who ever did this would A) have to be patient and be able to stay on top of things and B) keep the amount if threads/questions reined in. They wouldn't be a mod but a community member.

If we started a separate section there would have to be enough discussion and topics in order to make it thrive, which I font know that there would be.

I think if you did start a new section for variants there would be enough discussion and topics in there for it to thrive.

Another way apart form a separate thread for each figure or line would be to have them all in one place, each figure could then have its own link added to the VOW thread.
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PostSubject: No to segregation ;)   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 29, 2012 9:23 am

So we’re about to dump all the annoying variation chat & collectors into their own sub-section Sad Wink

Or are we talking about turning this main forum into the variation one (seeing as there are sooo many variation threads) and all other chat can go elsewhere... Very Happy
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Being serious, I agree with all the points Chris has made for not splitting up the forums. A lot of variation questions are along the lines of “Where is this variant from?” which are best answered by collectors who have them on cards / in baggies, collectors who may not visit a variation forum regularly.

I also think it’s valuable for collectors to read threads about stuff that they don’t specifically collect. I know a lot of people don’t like the variation threads but I enjoy reading those about bootlegs, MOC threads, prototype discussion, etc. and learn something new about our hobby by doing so. I can see me reading less of these type of threads in the future if I had to leave the forum of my main interest to do so.

If the forums were to be split, it would be up to the moderators to move all the new variation threads posted in the ‘MOC, baggies, bootlegs etc.’ forum to the variation forum.

Apart from creating more work for them, they would have to decide which threads should be moved. Would threads on figure manufacturing (such as noob question: were the toys also packaged in their COO?) be moved? Discussions about baggies / cards that contain variations (Bespin Luke - Mail In???? & Question about factory mark on jawa cardback & coo on figure), discolouration threads (yuk!) etc? What about threads posted in the new variant section that start off about variations but go a bit ‘off topic’ discussing other non-variation stuff (Erased coo's)

Would all the existing variation threads from this forum be included in any new variation forum? If the split was to happen I would hope so, otherwise all the info contained in them would be pretty much lost – in a year or two would new variation collectors search for existing answers to their variant questions in the non-variation section?


I am much more in favour of restarting the Variant Of the Week threads instead. Perhaps links to all previous discussion on that figure could be included, creating one master thread per figure, much like Chris is suggesting in the solution to his 1st point. IMO a VOW thread per figure containing information as well as pictures is the way to go.

Rog.

PS. Uli should be forced to come back and finish off his VOW threads Wink Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Section Restructure Ideas   Section Restructure Ideas I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 29, 2012 10:32 am

Rog, you brought up a great point. Which thread would be considered a variation thread. Alot of non-variant threads have a tendency to end up as one in the end, on purpose or not. So would all threads on figures have to be moved or not? If they do, then why not re-name the vintage chat section as the vintage variant section and get it all over with? Add the vehicles and playsets with it as you go, cause theres also variants of those too. So what would be left of the vintage chat section? Nothing.
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