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 Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0

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wbobafett
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PostSubject: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeWed May 16, 2012 3:15 pm

Hey lads,


I have the feeling the coo gude 2.0 Im working now over years is really wanted!

There is follwing problems:

1. I want to change the whole template. My newest theories have become true ...lets say they are prooven. I spoke to the all the great coo collectors like Rog, Lee and Mirco (etc) and we have to change the whole template to make it complete and bring sense into it! That means....the whole work is for the trash bin!!!!!! I wont work further with the old templates!


2. My time is very limited. At the moment I work 70 hours a week...7 days a week...no matter if sunday...holiday or whatever!! So time for SW isd nearly zero!


I see now the urge is huge....the old guide is more then a bit false and incomplete!...its a mess!

My solution/suggestion:

I will upload all I have done by now on the coo guide! Just as it is. Anybody would be interested in this??

It would contain all main coos in existance.....most coos I think of all secondary stuff.

I would do a few pictures more to make it complete......

BUT...and there is always a "but"....I will NOT finish:
a) describtions (you know...LL, Mec, PBP etc.....)
b) differneces (you know....making lines where to look to see the differences)


I will try to put the numbers correctly......as said...my time is limited!


To me (personally) this is a waste of time...dont get me wrong.....I know all the stuff and Im very dissatisfied with the templates right now.....but I think the help to the community is huge!

You get nothing complete...but picture are all there!!!


Thoughts???


BTW: I dont want this to be an TIG exclusive......Im really nbot satisfied with it, how it is now! I would also apreciate the old coo guide to be gone......Its a real shame today to look at this Embarassed ....but thats another story!


Last edited by wbobafett on Wed May 16, 2012 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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curch
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeWed May 16, 2012 3:20 pm

Not a COO guru, but you always do fantastic work and your pics are awesome!
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wbobafett
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeWed May 16, 2012 3:24 pm

THX for the input!

I will upload them on RS.....so solution isnt the greatest!

Here is some examples:

Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 BEN_KENOBI7

Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 C_3PO

Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 BOBAFETT19

Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 CHEWBACCA_Kopie


Not the best examples.....these are pretty far in process..... Very Happy


Last edited by wbobafett on Wed May 16, 2012 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeWed May 16, 2012 3:27 pm

Wolff,

It would be a fantastic thing, if you want to share your current state of the art with us. Very Happy

I am sure there are enough volunteers around here which would like to indicate the small differences between different COOs and designations like Ledy/PBP/Mec (only when there is 100% certainty) in your file.

In this way we could have a Wolff guide 2.0 very fast.

Would you have time to review parts while work is in progress?



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wbobafett
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeWed May 16, 2012 3:29 pm

I cannot get higher solution on RS......Im too lazy to upload elsewhere to be honest!

The 2-row templates are good I think....the ones with 3 rows make me headaches!....a bit tziny and blurry!


My main problem with this is: They arent sorted after mold familys......coos groups etc......Its a mess....but pretty complete....at least the main coos are all in!
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curch
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeWed May 16, 2012 3:32 pm

My question is this, and again, I am not a COO guy, but I do find it interesting. And maybe this has been asnwered before. But is there anyway to tell what kind of card the figure came off. I don't mean ESB or ROTJ. What I do mean is international card. I know the Ledy stuff is pretty much figured out, but what about the other stuff. Or is that a mystery that we will never know? Again, not very knowledgable about COO's. So I am sorry in advace if this has already been said.

Joe
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wbobafett
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeWed May 16, 2012 3:37 pm

@Dr Dengar wrote:


I am sure there are enough volunteers around here which would like to indicate the small differences between different COOs and designations like Ledy/PBP/Mec (only when there is 100% certainty) in your file.

Im not sure if I like this.....

You have to understand I have it all in mind....correcting everything all the time or having false descriptions again would me cost more time then doing it on my own.

I hope you understand Marco. But of course LL i.e. can be labeled easily from you and there is other "easy" stuff....but there is lots of complicted stuff! An labeling in the old guide make it all wors IMO.


And also the argueing would start again....what is a Mec Fett??...true trilogo Fett??...etc......makes me nuts.....I will stop naming things as long as the community just starts mixing and argueing every tiny bit of an "good old name" thats in existance even longer as most of the guys talking about it are in the hobby!

Its hells kitchen IMO!


Last edited by wbobafett on Wed May 16, 2012 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeWed May 16, 2012 3:42 pm

I know there have been numerous times that you have requesed that your current coo guide be dismissed & removed from TIG. For many variant collectors your V1 is the only reference we have to go on. So I think replacing it with version 2 is a great idea.
V2 may not currently be completed / presented to your satisfaction but there are a lot of people who will be very greatful for any additinal information that you are able to provide.
Unfortunately whatever guide is produced I think people will always argue / question the origins or legitamacy of variants.
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wbobafett
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeWed May 16, 2012 3:47 pm

@curch wrote:
My question is this, and again, I am not a COO guy, but I do find it interesting. And maybe this has been asnwered before. But is there anyway to tell what kind of card the figure came off. I don't mean ESB or ROTJ. What I do mean is international card. I know the Ledy stuff is pretty much figured out, but what about the other stuff. Or is that a mystery that we will never know? Again, not very knowledgable about COO's. So I am sorry in advace if this has already been said.

Joe

Please read here:
http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1072470/

Its also not the best article....but 90% are still up to date! Wink

@cantina_patron wrote:
I know there have been numerous times that you have requesed that your current coo guide be dismissed & removed from TIG. For many variant collectors your V1 is the only reference we have to go on. So I think replacing it with version 2 is a great idea.
V2 may not currently be completed / presented to your satisfaction but there are a lot of people who will be very greatful for any additinal information that you are able to provide.
Unfortunately whatever guide is produced I think people will always argue / question the origins or legitamacy of variants.

Appreciated...THX!!.....
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aussiejames
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeWed May 16, 2012 5:40 pm

cheers
Having all the pictures will be great. No labels or not in order is not important.
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeWed May 16, 2012 5:44 pm

I agree with James, having the pictures would be great! I think the labels are what caused a lot of the confusion (at least with the Ledy).
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Chris_J
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeWed May 16, 2012 7:53 pm

Wolff, Ive said this else where here, but Ill say it here for all to see. The COO guide has been and always will be your crowning moment in the hobby (along with a few select posts of yours Wink ). You do with it what you want. It is much wanted here, I cant stress that enough. But at the end of the day, its yours to do what you want with it. I know its a long road to complete, but I would rather have you and the ones youve been working with on it to finish it before you put it out there. If all else, let Lee, Mirco, and the others help you to finish it, then send it to us to replace the old one in the members only section. No disrespect Pat with what your working on now, but I would prefer Wolffs guide be his. He put too many hours in making it what it is, so out of respect, he should be the one to finish it.

I know what you mean, buddy. Im working the same hours you are and it is hard to be able to do the work away from your normal job like you want to do. But chug another beer with me and we can get it finished. lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeWed May 16, 2012 7:54 pm

Well I think it's very kind of you Wolff to provide all your hard work to the community. When people have coo questions your name seems to pop up constantly. It's great you were able to collaborate with others like Lee, Micro ect... to put this all together. So I just wanted to say thanks. I do think having your updated guide would be extremely helpful for many, especially collectors like Pat (Retrorewindtoys) that are trying to complete their entire coo collection. I wanted to also say, I apologize for the whole Meccano Fett/True Trilogo French Fett debate being brought up. That was never my intention of my threads. I think MOC collectors were more interested in the change of the name that posted on my Fett threads. I'm sure debate will always be around though and that will never change. But again, thanks for all your hard work and for even considering displaying your new guides for others to educate themselves with....
All my best, -Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeWed May 16, 2012 8:07 pm

Hey Chris,
You must have confused my intentions, I am not working on a guide or trying to finish anything Wolffe or anyone else has done. I only made a thread to put COO's not found in Wolffe's guide, I posted the ones I had and was done with it. I was under the impression that no new guide was being made, so the thread makes sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeWed May 16, 2012 8:15 pm

I know what it was meant as. Sorry if it sounded like I meant you were trying to do a new version of it. Its just that Wolff has all this wrapped up in his warped little mind and hate to see it all go to waste, know what I mean? There has been a new version of it in the works for awhile now, but I think you might have missed all the drama that went down about it. There was a few members here who pretty much said Wolff didnt know what he was talking about, so he said fuck it. no ones going to get the new version except his closest friends. I shouldve made that point in my other post so it wouldnt have been confusing. As you can see from your thread, there was some info Wolff gave you on what you did post up that you didnt know of at first. Its always good to get info out there, if its correct. Thats why the new COO guide hasnt hit mainstream yet cause its still being fine tuned. As Ive said before, all good things come to those who wait. So if all else, you could ask Wolff if theres anything yopu could help him with on finishing the guide off.
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeWed May 16, 2012 8:17 pm

@wbobafett wrote:
I cannot get higher solution on RS......Im too lazy to upload elsewhere to be honest!



Couldn't you upload the pictures to a webshot account? That way you have full control of your own work.
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeThu May 17, 2012 1:09 am

@aussiejames wrote:
@wbobafett wrote:
I cannot get higher solution on RS......Im too lazy to upload elsewhere to be honest!



Couldn't you upload the pictures to a webshot account? That way you have full control of your own work.

Any experience when they "get lost" on Imageshack for example??...or do they stay forever??...LOL
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeThu May 17, 2012 1:24 am

Apreciated all thoughts in here!

Chris.....I know what your intends are....exactly! The problem is....the way it is it wont be completed ever!

The new template is difficult and havent figgured it out yet. And I wont go for the missing coos anymore, because its sensless for me!

The fact is: Every "main" coo appeared as minimum as a pair. So you have slight differences on ALL MAIN COOs.

Let me explain on Luke how it should be sorted:

1. Mold family (same steelmolds but altered coo in time):

3-line HK Luke (2 different), --> Raised bar china Luke (2 different) --> blank raised double bar Mec/GL Luke (2 different)

2. Mold family

2-line small HK Luke (2 different) --> no coo Luke (2 different)

3. Mold family

2-line big HK (2 different) --> no coo scar PBP (2 different)

4. Mold family

Taiwan coo Luke (2 different)


Thats an more easy one. There is figures with coos split up on 2 legs. Because of the pair steelmolds that go together with slight stamp differences the limbs of course got mixed up and you have 4 coos on these figures!

Lets take Mec Fett or Trilogo Fett! Both have 2 different scars, but also two different copyright legs! This makes 4 combinations possible!

So you see: I wont go for 4 Mec Fetts. Or having all 4 main paint variants on Tri Fett each with 4 different coos.....LOL....Thats 16 Main Tri Fetts....thats crazy!

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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeThu May 17, 2012 4:13 am



Wolff mentioned a total of 16 possible Trilogo Fetts when regarding the combinations of paint apps and differences within a COO type.

It can even be more crazy....

@Dr Dengar wrote:

  • Right leg: 9 possibilities (-, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 on heel). Note: just assuming all these numers exist on the heels.
  • Left leg: 9 possibilities (-, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 on heel)
  • Torso: 3 possibilities (4,5,7 belly wrinkles). Note: there might be even more than 3 torso versions, see Javi´s post.


So in total: 9 x 9 x 3 = 243 new Ledy Biker Scout variations. affraid

Bored variant collectors can now enter a whole new field of ´number´ variants which will be almost impossible to complete and give you a lifetime challenge. Very Happy

Personally I pass, I am already satisfied when I have all torso variantions.

Besides it would also take too much space, in the end the complete Ledy Biker Scout variants collection, would look something like this:

Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 Arrival-ROTJ


……..and that was even before Ozio’s discovery of a fourth torso type, two weeks ago (324 possibilities right now)

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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeThu May 17, 2012 4:18 am

Sorry, I didn’t want to bore you with my maths in the previous post, just wanted to make a point.

I like to collect different COOs, but abandoned the idea to collect all possible subtle differences with a certain COO type a while ago. These small differences were never that appealing to me in the first place but realizing these merely indicate differences between pairs of otherwise identical steel moulds (kudos to Wolff! Very Happy), interest was lost to collect them all.
Personally it is not so appealing whether the “8” in “1980” is shifted upwards or downwards, within a certain COO type. Or what is the exact shape of the scar within a COO type. Unless such types of differences - so differences within a COO type - can be exclusively linked to a certain figure line (PBP, Ledy,..), which is (almost?) never the case.

Focus is now on the main COO family lines and trying to get just one figure for each released COO type within these families. When there are other types of appealing variations for a certain COO type, think paint (brown/blond hair, Ledy variants cheers ), type of moulding (moulded hair or face), they will be collected as well.
Off course this is a personal choice, everyone should collect what he/she likes. And I have to stress that I have much respect for the endurance of fellow collectors when trying to master the complete range of COOs, including the small differences within the same COO types. It is just not my thing anymore.

That being said, how about the release of a slim version of the COO guide, showing the main COO families lines and having only one picture per COO type. Not as a replacement for Wolff 2.0 but more like a quick reference guide which can provide focus. It might also cost less time to complete.

What are your thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeThu May 17, 2012 5:56 am

I want to give a plus but I can't for some reason!
Very good initiative wolf! Can't you just zip em down and upload them to a file sharing site, that shouldn't take to long? Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeThu May 17, 2012 10:01 am

Incredible work Wolff.
This will be very helpful to COO collector even if it's not finish.

Congrats
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeThu May 17, 2012 10:09 am

@Rawlin wrote:
I want to give a plus but I can't for some reason!

That's because you can only give a plus (or neg) to others, Claes. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeThu May 17, 2012 11:44 am

@Dr Dengar wrote:
@Rawlin wrote:
I want to give a plus but I can't for some reason!

That's because you can only give a plus (or neg) to others, Claes. Very Happy

LoL darn I was trying hard there for a while, but I also can't leave plus for wolf. Maybe I've already left somehow :S
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Lee_m
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PostSubject: Re: Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0   Kind of a Poll----COO Guide 2.0 I_icon_minitimeThu May 17, 2012 4:48 pm

@wbobafett wrote:

I see now the urge is huge....the old guide is more then a bit false and incomplete!...its a mess!
Firstly Wolff, don't ever beat yourself up over the original coo guide. Purely speaking from my own
point of view (but i'm sure others would agree) this guide was and is still a bible to coo variant collectors.
Without this awesome reference i would still be scratching my head over certain coo's etc....Sure, there
are a couple of iffy coo's in there and some awesome missing variants (no coo DSD for example) BUT,
the fun (for me anyway), is getting the buzz from finding stuff online that wasn't in your guide as well as filling
up all the spaces and ticking them off was and is still a real thrill for me!! You've seen what i did with the guide
making it into a handy reference book and it still sits next to my pc for quick and easy reference.

The first coo guide is a piece of pure (pop) ART. Simple.

Now, i would actually like to see the second guide completed properly as you pictured it in your head
originally. I don't think you would be 100% happy with putting out (in your mind) incomplete work...BUT,
i do understand the need and want in the community for this AND your lack of time to put it together properly and
fully. So it's really your shout on this - it's your work. You can do as you please with it.

EDIT: I must just say that, although my name has been mentioned in some of the posts, i never had any input
certainly on Wolff's original guide and probably very minimum on the second guide as far as pictures etc goes.
I have been there to help/confirm/deny/check some figures and always for moral support (i hope) Smile

Lastly, i think how you have explained the coo Mold family is great and all coo/variant collectors new and old
should understand this and how it works. I think it's invaluable knowledge. Here are your words again...


The fact is: Every "main" coo appeared as minimum as a pair. So you have slight differences on ALL MAIN COOs.

Let me explain on Luke how it should be sorted:

1. Mold family (same steelmolds but altered coo in time):

3-line HK Luke (2 different), --> Raised bar china Luke (2 different) --> blank raised double bar Mec/GL Luke (2 different)

2. Mold family

2-line small HK Luke (2 different) --> no coo Luke (2 different)

3. Mold family

2-line big HK (2 different) --> no coo scar PBP (2 different)

4. Mold family

Taiwan coo Luke (2 different)


Keep the faith brother :clap:


Last edited by Lee_m on Fri May 18, 2012 8:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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