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 Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.

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Rawlin
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30, 2012 9:59 am

Now when the TOS says that he will own pretty much everything posted on the forum in 28 days, it would be in his interest to remove any copyright protected material so he don't get more lawyers sending letters. Probably gonna be a bit different over there now when he have taken a large step in the asshole direction. After all, you got to be careful so you only claim stuff that people who can't do anything about it owns, and not a large company that will run you over like a truck.

I don't mind my pictures posted as reference to a figure or something like it on any forum. I've had it happen, though I keep my websites name on them now in case something do come up. Forums have always been kind of free, and I'm pretty sure most owners accept pictures being linked over at forums. But if there is someone claiming these pictures posted as his just because they are on his forum, that is not very good in my mind. And I would not appreciate that.

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sithtoys
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30, 2012 10:14 am

@Josh wrote:

It's great guys like you who have a lot to contribute to the hobby stick around the place. You should know by now many people do appreciate your participation along with a great many other knowledgeable collectors who do actively contribute in discussion on the boards. I just find it sad the actions of a few (maybe myself included for some) would drive people away when there are so many who do value yours and others input. Some of us do not have a lot to bring. I myself do not want to be another person just going "Nice collection mate". If I have something to say I say it. Or if I can express it with a picture I will do it that way. I just have not invested the same sort of energy into the hobby as you guy's I guess. I love it, I love learning about it, but I do not go all hardcore like some of you do. And I am not saying there is anything wrong with it at all. IMO you lot are what make this place interesting as far as the toys go. But that is not to say I do not appreciate everyone of the guys who just bring me a smile when I visit whatever board it maybe.
We can all contribute differently. Our opinion may never be the same all the time, which I think is great! Usually that brings about the best discussion.

Again, I completely agree with you. I *never* take a new collector for granted, if anything I appreciate someone coming into the hobby and bringing a new perspective, or a fresh set of eyes to things. Not to long ago someone (a new collector) made a discovery about the earlier Vader case production that was so glaringly obvious, it was actually embarrassing how no one had caught it before. That just proves my point - you treat people like "noobs" or you treat people like "new vintage collectors" with respect, and continue building the hobby. If I can learn something, then it's no difference who it comes from. I'm better off for it, and I have no "filters" for such things. I'm always open to learn I also certainly appreciate your POV on that thread, and the points you were trying to make. The only thing that I would want you to consider, or maybe just be objective about for a moment, is really two key (factual) points; then if you want to tell me to piss off, or whatever, then have at it:

1) The standing issue with Joe - it has already progressed into the legal/lawyer stage. There will be no public commentary from either side. Joe made an initial olive branch statement/offer, and I think that was even deleted. You will not see this matter addressed publicly at this point.

2) The thread was started as an open format/discussion to address the various TOS issues with Phillip. I find it immediately suspicious that no form of regular moderation was being carried out. My genuine assessment ? The mods were told to keep out of it. Mike stepped in to keep the peace, but nothing proactively was done other than by Phillip. I feel this was completely intentional, and was done as a measure of control to keep the thread in check, and to direct it. Like I mentioned before, this was so far OT,
why didn't he step in and remove those comments, but was so quick to remove the comments at the first part of the thread ? There is no other reason than controlling the direction and content of the thread.

I think guys like you certainly have a lot to offer in the discussions we've had. Anyone that wants to learn, or really engage in a meaningful diolouge is what keeps the lifeblood of the forums going. You're right ... someone posting an item, and getting a "nice piece, or "cool" is tantamount to getting a "Like" on FB for posting a vintage Hardcopy ... doesn't anyone have any questions, or want to learn about it ? If not, then where is the logic in posting it in the first place ? Just to show it off ? "Hey look at what I got ? ..... yawwnnn

We'll have to see things work out, but as I mentioned before; it's impossible for me to not consider what is going on with Joe, as a very personal issue. He's my friend, and I'm going to support him. It's also a much bigger issue than just Joe. It someone can do this to one of the old school guys like him, then how does this effect the rest of us ?

Bill


Last edited by sithtoys on Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Josh
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30, 2012 10:16 am

You're awesome man. Cool
I wish more of the old school guys participated like you do.
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Chris_J
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30, 2012 10:22 am

@Josh wrote:
Funny the link thing. If it's okay to have third party links, and he has covered himself from any damages that may arise from us clicking them. Why cant people have links in their sigs? It all generates traffic in the end doesn't it?

* Is it an advertising thing? Because people do pay to advertise on there, he has agreed that there will be no unauthorised links etc directing to other sites?

It all boils down to "Do As I Say, Not As I Do". Plain and simple.
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Joseph_Y
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30, 2012 10:35 am

He essentially just told you all that you have no real say(by controlling and closing the "discussion" thread) and that by posting there,he owns everything you post, be it info or pics. Sorry ,but even if I wasn't at the center of this situation, I'd be banned by now anyway for telling the old fart off over these changes.


Cheers
Joe
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Josh
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30, 2012 10:36 am

Quote :
If not, then where is the logic in posting it in the first place ? Just to show it off ? "Hey look at what I got ? ..... yawwnnn

I want to address this in particular.

I think the important thing with showing things off in a way is, that although it may appear attention seeking in a way or, in doing so it may only draw a lot of those drone comments. You will still get the ones worth engaging in discussion with. So it's a payoff you are hoping you may get by showing off the item in the first place I guess.
In all honesty we all are secretly wanting our friends etc to engage with us about our toys, fact is 90% or more in our lives don't want anything to do with them. So when you do get that extra bit of interest, aside from the usual remarks of "nice"etc. it gives you that contact, that in a way we have been wanting to have with someone since first acquiring a piece for example.

It's a cruel world. lol!


Sorry that was a little bit OT folks What a Face
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KJ
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30, 2012 10:42 am

Well, what's done is done.

People can (hopefully) remove their material before the new TOS take effect.

I'm still extremely unhappy that Joe's pics are still there. That was, and is, my primary concern.

I don't know Joe beside his forum posts. I'm not friends with him. Before all this I'd never conversed with him at all. I suspect he and I would get along really well, but who knows? * Since this began, I did send him a message of support at RS which I doubt he saw, and two private messages here as I wanted to clarify to him that I wasn't meaning to be rude when, on one of my RS posts I mentioned we're not friends.

It's not, and shouldn't, be about Joe the person. That's nothing more than a convenient excuse.

It's abiut copyright law, and a site owner's blatant disregard for it, and the rights of the copyright owner.

Nothing was shown in any of those threads that negated the claims of the copyright owner.
Nothing was shown in any of those threads to support the actions of the site owner.

That's what it's about, and it's something I feel passionate about (having had some experience helping others with copyright theft).

I'll rest easy about this when that situation is resolved in a lawful way.
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finestcomics
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30, 2012 10:54 am

@Josh wrote:
Funny the link thing. If it's okay to have third party links, and he has covered himself from any damages that may arise from us clicking them. Why cant people have links in their sigs? It all generates traffic in the end doesn't it?

* Is it an advertising thing? Because people do pay to advertise on there, he has agreed that there will be no unauthorised links etc directing to other sites?

I was told it was an advertising thing. Which I can totally understand.

I think the most merit from me posting the link is the cred check thing, as people will see that I have an online presence outside of the board alias. I don't do a lot of selling (maybe a handful of times including the VTC). I do post WTB's though. It isn't a biggie, but if I were to say it does provide a benefit, its mostly got to do with showing people I'm not some fly-by-night boardie.

I will say that I quite like the TIG reputation scoring. Does anyone know how the score is determined?
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Rawlin
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30, 2012 11:01 am

@Josh wrote:
Quote :
If not, then where is the logic in posting it in the first place ? Just to show it off ? "Hey look at what I got ? ..... yawwnnn

I want to address this in particular.

I think the important thing with showing things off in a way is, that although it may appear attention seeking in a way or, in doing so it may only draw a lot of those drone comments. You will still get the ones worth engaging in discussion with. So it's a payoff you are hoping you may get by showing off the item in the first place I guess.
In all honesty we all are secretly wanting our friends etc to engage with us about our toys, fact is 90% or more in our lives don't want anything to do with them. So when you do get that extra bit of interest, aside from the usual remarks of "nice"etc. it gives you that contact, that in a way we have been wanting to have with someone since first acquiring a piece for example.

It's a cruel world. lol!


Sorry that was a little bit OT folks What a Face

Of course people want to show off their stuff, and share the joy that they have in what they just got. If they where not happy about it they wouldn't share it. Because of this we get to see loads of stuff. Make new discoveries and enjoy what the community have to offer. I usually become very impressed of what others have to share, I can't recall me ever feeling that a person is a show off, or that I get jealous. Except for that headman figure, I'm jealous about that one. I love headman... with his shield and sword... silver helm and neat design... lol just kidding, I'll get one before I die I hope.
Anyway I can imagine, that when you got a large collection like Joseph, some people do get jealous and behave childish by talking shit for no reason and attacking. It's common among kids. This whole thing is something I would have expected to see with children stealing each others stuff.
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Joseph_Y
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30, 2012 11:03 am

@KJ wrote:
Well, what's done is done.

People can (hopefully) remove their material before the new TOS take effect.

I'm still extremely unhappy that Joe's pics are still there. That was, and is, my primary concern.

I don't know Joe beside his forum posts. I'm not friends with him. Before all this I'd never conversed with him at all. I suspect he and I would get along really well, but who knows? * Since this began, I did send him a message of support at RS which I doubt he saw, and two private messages here as I wanted to clarify to him that I wasn't meaning to be rude when, on one of my RS posts I mentioned we're not friends.

It's not, and shouldn't, be about Joe the person. That's nothing more than a convenient excuse.

It's abiut copyright law, and a site owner's blatant disregard for it, and the rights of the copyright owner.

Nothing was shown in any of those threads that negated the claims of the copyright owner.
Nothing was shown in any of those threads to support the actions of the site owner.

That's what it's about, and it's something I feel passionate about (having had some experience helping others with copyright theft).

I'll rest easy about this when that situation is resolved in a lawful way.

I definitely appreciate the concern,and I'll keep everyone updated as things progress. If you're going to Celebration, step up,introduce yourself, we'll all be hanging out,drinking and talking toys all weekend long.

Cheers
Joe
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Josh
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30, 2012 11:13 am

@Rawlin wrote:
@Josh wrote:
Quote :
If not, then where is the logic in posting it in the first place ? Just to show it off ? "Hey look at what I got ? ..... yawwnnn

I want to address this in particular.

I think the important thing with showing things off in a way is, that although it may appear attention seeking in a way or, in doing so it may only draw a lot of those drone comments. You will still get the ones worth engaging in discussion with. So it's a payoff you are hoping you may get by showing off the item in the first place I guess.
In all honesty we all are secretly wanting our friends etc to engage with us about our toys, fact is 90% or more in our lives don't want anything to do with them. So when you do get that extra bit of interest, aside from the usual remarks of "nice"etc. it gives you that contact, that in a way we have been wanting to have with someone since first acquiring a piece for example.

It's a cruel world. lol!


Sorry that was a little bit OT folks What a Face

Of course people want to show off their stuff, and share the joy that they have in what they just got. If they where not happy about it they wouldn't share it. Because of this we get to see loads of stuff. Make new discoveries and enjoy what the community have to offer. I usually become very impressed of what others have to share, I can't recall me ever feeling that a person is a show off, or that I get jealous. Except for that headman figure, I'm jealous about that one. I love headman... with his shield and sword... silver helm and neat design... lol just kidding, I'll get one before I die I hope.
Anyway I can imagine, that when you got a large collection like Joseph, some people do get jealous and behave childish by talking shit for no reason and attacking. It's common among kids. This whole thing is something I would have expected to see with children stealing each others stuff.

Nah. I mean there are people who are looking for more of a rewarding conversation about their items than just a "great item mate" comment. Not that they aren't nice. I think just lot of people don't know what to say or ask at times. I think the thing is don't be afraid to ask I guess. I know I do if I wanna know something. Heck, these guys are here at our disposal (so to speak). Thats more than you will ever get out of a book.
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Rawlin
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30, 2012 11:36 am

@Josh wrote:
@Rawlin wrote:
@Josh wrote:
Quote :
If not, then where is the logic in posting it in the first place ? Just to show it off ? "Hey look at what I got ? ..... yawwnnn

I want to address this in particular.

I think the important thing with showing things off in a way is, that although it may appear attention seeking in a way or, in doing so it may only draw a lot of those drone comments. You will still get the ones worth engaging in discussion with. So it's a payoff you are hoping you may get by showing off the item in the first place I guess.
In all honesty we all are secretly wanting our friends etc to engage with us about our toys, fact is 90% or more in our lives don't want anything to do with them. So when you do get that extra bit of interest, aside from the usual remarks of "nice"etc. it gives you that contact, that in a way we have been wanting to have with someone since first acquiring a piece for example.

It's a cruel world. lol!


Sorry that was a little bit OT folks What a Face

Of course people want to show off their stuff, and share the joy that they have in what they just got. If they where not happy about it they wouldn't share it. Because of this we get to see loads of stuff. Make new discoveries and enjoy what the community have to offer. I usually become very impressed of what others have to share, I can't recall me ever feeling that a person is a show off, or that I get jealous. Except for that headman figure, I'm jealous about that one. I love headman... with his shield and sword... silver helm and neat design... lol just kidding, I'll get one before I die I hope.
Anyway I can imagine, that when you got a large collection like Joseph, some people do get jealous and behave childish by talking shit for no reason and attacking. It's common among kids. This whole thing is something I would have expected to see with children stealing each others stuff.

Nah. I mean there are people who are looking for more of a rewarding conversation about their items than just a "great item mate" comment. Not that they aren't nice. I think just lot of people don't know what to say or ask at times. I think the thing is don't be afraid to ask I guess. I know I do if I wanna know something. Heck, these guys are here at our disposal (so to speak). Thats more than you will ever get out of a book.

That's sort of what I meant, good things come out of sharing. It's what forums is all about.
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Chris_J
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30, 2012 12:02 pm

Joe, finest, its based off the + and - beside your posts. The more + you get, the more rep points you have. the more - you get, the lower the score. There have been a few who ended up in the negative area before. Twisted Evil
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finestcomics
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30, 2012 8:04 pm

@Chris_J wrote:
Joe, finest, its based off the + and - beside your posts. The more + you get, the more rep points you have. the more - you get, the lower the score. There have been a few who ended up in the negative area before. Twisted Evil

Ah yes, I see that. That's an interesting voting system (similar to Google+ competing with FB likes).

Thanks!
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Jimmy_2Pack
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30, 2012 10:22 pm

Hi Guys. Decided to open up a TIG account. With 5 young children I don't have the time to post like I used to on RS, but I read all 26 pages of this thread to make sense of what blew up on RS. I'm glad that I did. I'm sorry to see what happened to you Joe, and subsequently the whole (especially RS) collecting community.
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David glad to see you here!

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sith jawa
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01, 2012 6:11 pm

No real surprise, but some "very cool" limelight threads are starting to be removed by their creators.. Sad, but this is becoming a hard reality..
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Rawlin
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01, 2012 6:14 pm

@sith jawa wrote:
No real surprise, but some "very cool" limelight threads are starting to be removed by their creators.. Sad, but this is becoming a hard reality..

It's sad but it's what Philip wished for, anyone who don't remove them will be giving their stuff away to him. It's not only pics, but guides, fan stories etc as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01, 2012 6:29 pm

What a surprise. None of those are banned for doing it and their pix put back. Rolling Eyes I see this happening more and more in the coming days. But whats fucked up is Joes is still up.
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Rawlin
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01, 2012 6:34 pm

@Chris_J wrote:
What a surprise. None of those are banned for doing it and their pix put back. Rolling Eyes I see this happening more and more in the coming days. But whats fucked up is Joes is still up.

It's because the new TOS does not allow him to do anything about them removing them. But against Joe it must be personal. And the wish to be sued.

Honestly I don't get it. He should just remove Joes pics, but instead he goes and do this thinking he owns them. It's odd, very strange behavior.
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Joseph_Y
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 02, 2012 3:38 pm

Just saw the final draft of the C&D,now it gets mailed to Philip, and the Att. Gen's offices in both Texas and RI for filing purposes. Hopefully this will be settled by this time next week. I just figured I'd post as much of an update as I can about what's happening.

On a personal note, while I haven't been as vocal as I could be thru out this entire situation about how much I appreciate the unity and support that the majority of the community has given me, it's been truly overwhelming and left me speechless at times to be honest. Thanks guys. Now I just hope that I can give back something special for the hobby that'll be worth all the hassle that this situation has been, via my involvement here on TIG. And yes I understand that this situation is much bigger than just me, I can only hope that any of you experiencing the same thing from that forum are as unwaivering as need be to protect your rights.

Thank you all
Joe
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Rawlin
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 02, 2012 3:59 pm

I thought about this for a while but I don't want to take any risks that my pics get hot linked to RS and cause me trouble. Since I don't agree with the TOS it's ridiculous that a forum does or need one like that. Anyway yesterday I locked RS from hotlinking to pictures at my site, sorry to the members. If any used any of them. Its the TOS thats the problem. So I did this to prevent future problems. I still don't mind them being hot linked on other forums though. Just don't want them claimed by someone else. I wouldn't mind if things where different.

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finestcomics
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 03, 2012 9:46 am

While not completely relevant to JoeY's situation, this is a really interesting read on how difficult it can be to getting content/photos removed once they're stuck on the Web:

Once something sticks to the Web, good luck getting it unstuck | ITWorld


Last edited by finestcomics on Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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AussieFortuna
Imperial Admiral
Imperial Admiral
AussieFortuna

Posts : 603
Join date : 2012-07-02
Age : 45
Location : sydney city Australia

Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 05, 2012 6:01 am

gday Joe, mate im a lurker over there at RS i just pop on as a guest for the last few years to check it out, i read with interest your dramas over there with that wise bloke, n let me tell you i would have done exactly the same as you, he sounds like a tool, he comes across as full of himself, your mates over there are still stickin up for you to their credit, to anybody that reads that arrogant dribble that comes out of hes mouth would realise in 5 seconds flat he cant take any critisism, he acts like a child, deletes anything that makes himself look bad, mate he's like a dictator from a communist party.....
good on you for makin the stand to go, i love your passion for bootlegs, and when i have the cash soon, i am planing on starting off my bootleg collecting from none other than you..
i will be popping my head into your great bootleg section all the time, to learn more about them off you n others, cheers mate, n keep up the great work
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KJ
Imperial Gunner
Imperial Gunner


Posts : 30
Join date : 2012-06-22

Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 05, 2012 9:52 am

ozzie Greedo wrote:
gday Joe, mate im a lurker over there at RS i just pop on as a guest for the last few years to check it out, i read with interest your dramas over there with that wise bloke, n let me tell you i would have done exactly the same as you, he sounds like a tool, he comes across as full of himself, your mates over there are still stickin up for you to their credit, to anybody that reads that arrogant dribble that comes out of hes mouth would realise in 5 seconds flat he cant take any critisism, he acts like a child, deletes anything that makes himself look bad, mate he's like a dictator from a communist party.....
good on you for makin the stand to go, i love your passion for bootlegs, and when i have the cash soon, i am planing on starting off my bootleg collecting from none other than you..
i will be popping my head into your great bootleg section all the time, to learn more about them off you n others, cheers mate, n keep up the great work

At the moment he only deals in bootleg photos...



(sorry, couldn't resist)
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PostSubject: Re: Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion.   Any Lawyers in the house? Need a copyright opinion. - Page 16 I_icon_minitime

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