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 Ethics in Collecting Question

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Tommy_Garvey
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PostSubject: Ethics in Collecting Question   Ethics in Collecting Question I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 19, 2012 7:23 pm

I've always been interested in how different people act in different situations. With that in mind, I like to do collecting based fact patterns, and ask what various collectors would do if they were in that situation. The goal isn't to get a "right" answer, just to have an honest discussion on the ethics involved.

So, here's the fact pattern this time around:

You are at a toy show, and are negotiating for several items. During the course of the bargaining, items are being added and subtracted to the pile. You come to an agreement with the dealer and pay for the items and are now on your way back to your car, when you notice something in the bag which you don't remember as being part of the deal you agreed on. It was something you were interested in, but you remember putting it back, and are fairly certain that its price was NOT included in the total. You are reasonably sure that the dealer has mistakenly given it to you free of charge. What do you do?

A. Return to the dealer and ask him about it.
B. Figure the dealer threw it in as a free gift and forget about it
C. Other

And

1. Does it make a difference how expensive the item in question is?
2. Where you are in relation to the dealer? (Home, parking lot, still at show, etc.)
3. How many other items you bought at the same time?
4. How good a deal the dealer cut you?

Tommy
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sith jawa
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PostSubject: Re: Ethics in Collecting Question   Ethics in Collecting Question I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 19, 2012 7:31 pm

Tommy,

Personally speaking, I am all about Karma. A good deed returns a good deed.

My answers:

A. Return to the dealer and ask him about it.


1. Does it make a difference how expensive the item in question is?
Unfortunately, money matters..

2. Where you are in relation to the dealer? (Home, parking lot, still at show, etc.)
If the deal in question is the last one for the day, I would be packing my stuff and heading to the car. In most cases, I would not notice the "mistake" until that night. If I did not have the means to contact the seller, I would chalk it up to a exceptional gift.

3. How many other items you bought at the same time?
The more we buy, the better the deal I guess.

4. How good a deal the dealer cut you?
Same as number three..
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wbobafett
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PostSubject: Re: Ethics in Collecting Question   Ethics in Collecting Question I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 19, 2012 7:37 pm

Think of a movie...

Is the seller a big, fat, arrogant guy, smoking all the time (movie stereotypes).....keep it.......if he is a poor thin sympatic guy (or even better a girl): go back!!!!
lol!

Seriously: Your story is very objective. Everyone would say: Just go back and ask the guy! Thats pure ethics!

BUT, if you a re in the situation, the real situation, most people would act on subjective matters, like how was that guy????Do he deserves it??? Is it a cunt??? Our ethics are all based on personal sympathy! Never had sympathy for the bad guy in a good movie???

Story:
I once had a shop where I always bought my tabacco. I didnt like the staff, especially the stupid bitch that always served me. One day she gave me back wrong! I lost about 15 USD and I didnt noticed it till it was too late! Since that day Im waiting for a cashier making the same mistake on my profit that I hate enough to just say nothing! I havent met him/her till today......although I was nobbled many times


Last edited by wbobafett on Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:33 am; edited 2 times in total
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Josh
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PostSubject: Re: Ethics in Collecting Question   Ethics in Collecting Question I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 19, 2012 7:43 pm

I agree with Wolf. If the guy was an ass clown whilst doing the deal...it would be a cherry on top lol!
If it was an old lady as sweet as can be...she can fuck off also.

Just kidding...might think twice about the old biddy. Laughing







Last edited by Josh on Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jaybird
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PostSubject: Re: Ethics in Collecting Question   Ethics in Collecting Question I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 19, 2012 7:44 pm

I am with you sith Jawa, I would return to the dealer and let him know. Yes you might get away with a really sweet item but your reputation is on the line. And your reputation is everything. Who knows what will happen when you return to the dealer. He might see your honesty and give you a really good deal. Then again he might not, but at least you were honest and your name doesn't have any bad marks.

Being honest has always paid off for me. Maybe not right away but I have had more good things happen than bad. (knock on wood)
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Tommy_Garvey
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PostSubject: Re: Ethics in Collecting Question   Ethics in Collecting Question I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 19, 2012 8:31 pm

I agree that objectively, most people would tell you to take it back. What I find interesting though is that a lot of those same people, if actually IN the situation, would probably keep it. Personally, I've always believed in what I call "situational ethics". Ethical behavior in one situation might be unethical in another, and vise versa. It is the circumstances which determine it. In this particular fact pattern, I'm most interested in seeing where people draw those types of moral lines.

I used to do these threads every now and then on Rebelscum, and I find that collectors can come up with some very interesting arguments for or against a behavior, often times, seeing something that I never considered before. This one is probably a little more clear cut then the questions usually are, but I'm betting that of all of them, this is the one which would have the largest percentage of people doing something "unethical".

Incidentally, the fact pattern is based on two actual events. One happened to me (I returned it) and the other happened to a friend (they kept it, rationalizing it as a gift). Not saying which of us was right and which of us was wrong though. I know that people often include a "free gift" in packages they send me, and there's always this awkward moment where I try to decide if they INTENDED to send it to me, or if it was some kind of mistake. Laughing

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aussiejames
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PostSubject: Re: Ethics in Collecting Question   Ethics in Collecting Question I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 19, 2012 9:17 pm

On the flipside, if you packed an extra item by mistake would you expect it returned?
I would like it returned but I'm responsible for my own mistakes.
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Josh
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PostSubject: Re: Ethics in Collecting Question   Ethics in Collecting Question I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 19, 2012 10:39 pm

I wouldn't expect the person to pay for the retun if I did lol!
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Josh
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PostSubject: Re: Ethics in Collecting Question   Ethics in Collecting Question I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 20, 2012 12:49 am

@Tommy_Garvey wrote:
I've always been interested in how different people act in different situations. With that in mind, I like to do collecting based fact patterns, and ask what various collectors would do if they were in that situation. The goal isn't to get a "right" answer, just to have an honest discussion on the ethics involved.

So, here's the fact pattern this time around:

You are at a toy show, and are negotiating for several items. During the course of the bargaining, items are being added and subtracted to the pile. You come to an agreement with the dealer and pay for the items and are now on your way back to your car, when you notice something in the bag which you don't remember as being part of the deal you agreed on. It was something you were interested in, but you remember putting it back, and are fairly certain that its price was NOT included in the total. You are reasonably sure that the dealer has mistakenly given it to you free of charge. What do you do?

A. Return to the dealer and ask him about it.
B. Figure the dealer threw it in as a free gift and forget about it
C. Other

And

1. Does it make a difference how expensive the item in question is?
2. Where you are in relation to the dealer? (Home, parking lot, still at show, etc.)
3. How many other items you bought at the same time?
4. How good a deal the dealer cut you?

Tommy


Honestly, it isn't hard to just take it back if you are pretty sure it was not meant as a gift. I am not sure how it works at shows, but I am sure I would realise I had gotten something for free before I got all the way home. unsure
If something is sent to you, and you get some extra's in the parcel. It isn't hard to say thankyou for them. I am sure a seller who had just been thanked for something they weren't aware of giving out as a gift, would either say so, and wear the cost to have it returned, or just wear the loss in general, and hope for a repeat customer who may come out of it.
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wbobafett
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PostSubject: Re: Ethics in Collecting Question   Ethics in Collecting Question I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 20, 2012 3:28 am

sry wrong button
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DarthBerizing
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PostSubject: Re: Ethics in Collecting Question   Ethics in Collecting Question I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 20, 2012 9:33 am

Tommy you hit it on the head with "Situational Ethics". Everyone is an altar boy when the situation isn't actually occuring. I'm not saying people aren't answering what they genuinely believe they'd do, but I think if we took 100 people and compared what they say would happen and then put it up against what actually happened, you'd get a different result.

So, that said, I'd take it back, apologize, and offer to give him $100 for my snafu Very Happy


In all seriousness, as I get older my ethics seem to improve. 20yr old me would say screw him, he should've paid attention. 39yr old me would absolutely make a reasonable effort to return it. I think the world has a flow to it, and doing the right thing helps it move in the right direction. The "reasonable" will absolutely be judged by value. I won't go nuts over a beater BWing Pilot but I'd move a mountain if it were a L Slot Fett.

I've caught people giving me too much change, adding an item to a bag that I'd put to the side at the counter, and I always point it out. The funny (but sad) thing is that there is always a look of slight shock on their face. Not that they made a mistake, but that I didn't take advantage of it.

A little OT but once I found a mobile phone in an airport parking lot. I had a feeling a hurried passenger dropped it and didn't realize it. I can't imagine how many people walked by it and just let it sit there. Anywho, I picked it up and went into the phonebook. When I saw there was no number listed for "Home" so I called my phone from it. Once I got the number I dialed back and left a voicemail saying I had the phone and to call me on my mobile. The next morning I got a call from a woman who was so genuinely happy I found it. She was late for her plane, dropped it, and realized it once the stewardess told everyone to shut their phones off. We didn't live near each other so I took her address and offered to mail it back. She wanted to send me money for the mail but I told her no problem, it was only like $6. Well about a week later I got a really nice card from her with a $25 Visa gift card!

Long winded point, what goes around comes around.

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Mike_Z
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PostSubject: Re: Ethics in Collecting Question   Ethics in Collecting Question I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 20, 2012 4:50 pm

'Situational ethics' hits the nail on the head - With that being said, I would return the extra gift or at least ask the dealer about it in that toy show scenario.

However....

Here is a situation I commonly find myself in:

Gentleman has a collection for sale, could be childhood collection with zero attachment or a guy who collected in the early 90s and doesn't have a care in the world for the items any longer. In both situations the seller is unaware of the value of these items in 2012. Do you enlighten him or do you treat the situation like poker and prey on the weak/uninformed?

I consider knowledge to be advantageous and truthfully, I never expose my hand. Some may view this as a bit hypocritical given my answer to the original question, but where do you draw the line?

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Jaybird
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PostSubject: Re: Ethics in Collecting Question   Ethics in Collecting Question I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 20, 2012 6:25 pm

Msz124 wrote:

I consider knowledge to be advantageous and truthfully, I never expose my hand. Some may view this as a bit hypocritical given my answer to the original question, but where do you draw the line?


I really agree with you on this one. When I buy collections from people I always ask them what they want for the collection. I never give someone a price first because I want to get a deal.

90% of the time, even if I try and low ball them, they are getting more than what a reseller would give them. I would return the toy found as you are walking out to the car because both parties knew about it and it was an accident. Not doing your research is not my fault. I am not dealing with children, they are adults and as a adult you should know to do your homework.

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