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 POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?

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budspencer
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PostSubject: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 14, 2013 8:48 pm

I am almost in the home stretch. I have to fall solely in the original POTF figures soon.

But i have this nagging feeling that i am being abused on their price and that people are distributing facts about that particular line that are somewhat false.

Everyone keeps saying that these toys are valuable because they were produced on the POTF cards. I agree that those were or are probably rare today and they are valuable if you are a MOC collector.


But when you collect them loose I think there is a bit of exaggeration on what they really are. These toys were not only produced on POTF cards but they were also produced on Tri logo cards. And correct me if i am wrong but the tri logo toys are probably the same toys as on the POTF cards. Maybe different coo's. Not sure.

What i am coming too is if you collect loose and you are at the point where you have to fall into this line. It just burns me that people go on about saying that these are rare because they were only on POTF cards thus inflating the price to sometimes beyond the ridiculous.

The toy that you buy may have been originally placed on a tri logo card but people are passing this as  POTF toy and charging you more.

I never ever seen anyone say that the pop up lightsaber r2 came from a tri logo card instead of a POTF. Everyone says POTF and it is an automatic cha ching. Because sellers vehiculate this myth of rarity on the POTF line.

Maybe the tri logo cards were actually rarer than the POTF cards to begin with.

But it would be nice if the community would start to set the record straight and say to people that your loose toy may have come from a tri-logo card or a POTF card and that this line was not just distributed in the US as some people and seller want the community of collectors to believe.

I guess these toys were not as mass produced as the one from the first tree films but the rare myth should be debunked.

If anyone knows the difference between the POTF and the same toys on tri logo cards please feel free to testify the truth.

In the end it wont change much for me to lament about this as i ll probably be done doing a complete loose set in the next year. But it would be nice for upcoming collectors to know the truth about the POTF toys that were on 2 sets of different cards.

I think it would be fair to them they know what the real deal is.

enlighten me oh master collectors for a am just an humble noob.
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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 14, 2013 10:54 pm

Hi Bud,

Its supply and demand, yes their prices could be seen to be a little high, but i'll use the pop up r2-d2 you spoke of as an example.
Demand outweighs supply for good examples of this guy, it drives the price up.

Ive never heard anybody say the price is high due to the fact that they are on a POTF card, the simple fact is is that they where released in tens of millions less in numbers than the rest of the lines, there are millions less of these than the others, i wouldnt say theres a shortage of them, but its a fact there where less made than the rest.

For most collectables ive found that demand sets the price, its no different imo with the POTF line.

For me i was happy to pay the asking price for them, they are amongst my favourite SW figures, its a killer line.

Just be patient mate, hopefully you wont have to pay overs for them, and you might get a few for unders, cheers
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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 14, 2013 11:37 pm

Dont worry.

I shop a lot for the best deal versus quality.

I could believe the supply and demand story but it would be stretching it. I see most of the final 17 all the time on ebay and that is just ebay.ca. What about the other auctions sites, Craiglist, Kijiji and the people from europe or australia who got these toys?

A lot of people are vehiculating ( if thats a word ) the myth that these were only made on POTF cards and that they were only distributed in the US for a short time and that because of that it is a reason to jack up the prices. It is totally false and sellers are profiteering from this on the back of uneducated people on this.

I totally believe in paying top dollars for a high grade loose figure. IF that 70$ is gonna get me an almost mint paint rub free toy with good articulation, then sure. I will pay.

But if the figure is only worth in reality 20$ and people had another 20$ on top of the figure just because everyone says Its POTF its rare is robbery in my opinion.

I would say POTF might be uncommon but not rare. Rare would be like 3-5 copies in a year. Like early bird kits or early bird enveloppes. Now that is rare and worth their price.

anyways time for bed. ranting over and out for now.
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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2013 12:49 am

Bud, i never said they are rare, they are not hard to find at all, i just said they where made in millions less than the other lines, and thats factual.


Nothings really rare these days, especially with things at our fingertips on the net.

Things are priced at what people are willing to pay for them, if these figures never sold at their prices then people would have to sell them for less, but they do sell at the current prices.

Its irrelevant what cards they where sold on if you collect the loose, they have held their prices for 20 odd years.

And theres no point getting cranky about the prices, its just how it is bud, if you think they are worth 20 bucks thats cool, but people are buying them for a lot more, and somethings only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it, so in the case of POTF, they are worth what they sell for of people wouldnt be able to sell them.

cheers

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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2013 2:26 am

First of all Bud, there is no difference between the POTF versions and the Tri-Logo version, the figures are exactly the same. The only real exception to this is of course Yak Face who didn't come with a weapon (or occasionally a random weapon) where as on the POTF card he did, the figure how ever is the same.
The reason they are referred to as POTF figures is simply because that is the name of that specific line that the figures where released on, same as say, Yoda cxould be found on an ESB, ROTJ and POTF card but is always going to be an ESB character. The Tri-Logo cards where not a seperate line as such, just Return of the Jedi cards design to consolidate production in Europe.
As for price, well unfortunately that's just the way it is, and it stings, as we all no, they where produced in there millions across the globe and no matter what day of the week you type Yak Face into ebay, you'll probably find at least ten, the same can't be said if your trying to track down a Droids Factory R2, the Yak Face will still outway it price wise by probably a good 3 times.
Supply and demand also, as Aussie Fortuna said does play apart, R2 is a tricky bugger to find mint, you also have to take into concideration accessories, with the exception of Romba and Barada (Yak Face) all the POTF figures came with unique accessories, so if you loose a R2 saber, the replacement can only come from another R2. Even the Luke Stormy has the unique black Stormie blaster.

It's an arse, but it's never going to change unfortunately Sad 
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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2013 2:58 am

Hey Bud,

Big chance that at any given time you will find less Last 17 figures compared to figures from any other era. I expect it will not matter on which site you look, ebay, craiglist, marktplaats,….  
These figures were only produced in one year (1985), so there are just fewer Last 17 figures compared to the others. The fact that they were released on both POTF and Tri cards does not change that.


Just a check on ebay:

Weeguay loose: 52 figures found

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.Xvintage+loose+weequay&_nkw=vintage+loose+weequay&_sacat=0&_from=R40


Luke poncho loose: 9 figures found

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=vintage+loose+weequay&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.Xluke+poncho+vintage+loose&_nkw=luke+poncho+vintage+loose&_sacat=0


About 5 times more Weeguay then Luke Poncho figures (lesser supply).
Add to that that the Luke Poncho is a much more popular figure (more demand), and there you got your current price for the Luke Poncho.

BTW: I don't believe there is some sort of conspiracy of evil sellers to 'abuse' poor vintage collectors. Every collector who is willing to pay a certain price for a figure, in a system of demand and supply, had made a deliberate choice and is not being abused. Just my 2 cts.

Which last 17 figure do you still need, Bud?

Cheers
Marco
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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2013 8:45 am

Over priced figures don't sell, they will eventually fall down to what the market value is. It's as simple as that.

As marco says, these where made at the end and have a lot less figures made then the figures that where produced for years. Every collector wants a set of last 17 in their collection. But they are harder to get and people are willing to pay more for them.

R2D2 Popup lightsaber is also a rather hard figure, considering the sticker so I can imagine that they are getting harder to get which raise the value on those in good condition. Yakface if I'm right was the last figure produced and that gives it a smaller production.

It's all about the marketvalue, I could use my doctors without borders as an example, they are rather rare. Only made in France 1988. But there is no market for them, so they don't sell high even though rare.
The potf figures on the other hand have a large market and a very high demand. So people pay more for them and that is where the price comes from. What they sell for.

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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2013 9:10 am

Bud,

There are more Last 17 figures in the states (excluding Yakface).

Therefore prices over there are generally cheaper then for us guys in Europe, so your lucky in this respect.

Hard item imo are R2 with a nice decal, a-wing/imperial gunner guns, luke stormie with correct "black" blaster.

Good luck

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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2013 10:09 am

R2 sabre is proving damn elusive for me unless I want to spend £40! I don't think so.
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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2013 10:41 am

i'm after a nice loose, minty white Luke Stormie. But £60 seems a bit pricey to me, its like your paying £25/£30 for the hemet and £30 for the figure. Well i've got the helmet so i just want the figure, possibly with a blaster. but these just don't really come up in good condition, they are always complete. plus its always hard to tell from a photo just how white the figure is. 😢maybe i should sell the helmet and put that money towards a complete figure thinking
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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2013 5:48 pm

Its not that i don't agree with all your comments. Its just that i feel that this part of the star wars collection is really hard to deal with.

I find it hard to believe that supply and demand story when i see that some of my favorites seller have had their last figures sit in their virtual stores without selling for the last year.

If supply and demand was the real issue here i think that these would be gone from their stores. But what is happening is that they have prices that are borderline close to the threshold of what people want to pay for these and a serious collector knows he can get a better deal on those if he is patient.

the demand is there but Overpricing is one of the issue here. When the prices go down you see these go. I just bought one of the ewoks because one of my favorite seller was having a good sale and i felt at that time the pricing was more than fair.

Most of the figures start from 40$ and up so when you see these going down then they sell like i said.

Also some of the figures are hard to get in good condition like R2 and the imperial dignitary. He is going to be a bi-ch to get because of his damn nose. 99% of the figures i have seen have that nasty paint rub off and the ones that dont have other problems. So this is an example where the quality of the figure of the figure is equal to a monetary value. If you want a better copy expect to pay more. I 100% agree to that.

i am missing Lumat, Luke Battle poncho,Romba, Barada, Imperial gunner, EV 9D9, Warok, Lando, A wing pilot, Imperial dignitary and Yak Face. So as you can see i am missing a good bunch of them.

Yak face is going to be dead last figure that i get cause i know i ll have to fork a lot for a copy i can live with. So i am still looking at a good 1000$ for the figures above. Thats a lot of money for such a small amount of figures. But i can make it...

anyways dont mind me and my ramblings, I am in the home stretch and thats the hardest part to go thru most of the time... after that i ll upgrade some of the figures i got for better ones...


Last edited by budspencer on Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2013 5:54 pm

@chris.75 wrote:
i'm after a nice loose, minty white Luke Stormie. But £60 seems a bit pricey to me, its like your paying £25/£30 for the hemet and £30 for the figure. Well i've got the helmet so i just want the figure, possibly with a blaster. but these just don't really come up in good condition, they are always complete. plus its always hard to tell from a photo just how white the figure is. 😢maybe i should sell the helmet and put that money towards a complete figure thinking
I actually have the reverse situation of you.
I bought a loose stormie because his limbs were awesome and the paint was fantastic on it. but the toy had no helmet and blaster. I ll have to hunt for a proper minty white helmet and appropriate blaster. But i have a funnyy feeling that ill end up buying another complete stormie to finish mine.
Here it is, I am very proud of that one since i got it at a very decent price.


POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? IMG_0911

POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? IMG_0934

POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? IMG_0930

POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? IMG_0920

POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? IMG_0917
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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2013 6:04 pm

Yeah dignitary is one of the worst. The bubble was to tight which made the nose rub on most of them. I've only had like 2 without that dot on the nose.
Yak Face and Imperial Gunner was my last two to get in the last 17.

Sellers are free to set what they want as a price tag, if they don't sell then they are over priced. But that's the sellers problem.
Like this as an example, sure it's japanese and rare but still.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HASBRO-Hasbro-Star-Wars-The-Clone-Wars-Basic-Figure-Asaji-Ventress-Star-Wars-2-/181193894132?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a2fff68f4

Edit:
That sounded kinda dumb lol. Well there is also the situation where the figure got flaws. The pricing is sometimes lower then what it should but it still don't sell because people are looking for figures in better condition.


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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2013 6:08 pm

Tip: If you need a POTF black blaster for the Luke Stormie, why not buy a cheaper Kez-Iban or Thall Joben figure?

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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2013 6:18 pm

@budspencer wrote:
@chris.75 wrote:
i'm after a nice loose, minty white Luke Stormie. But £60 seems a bit pricey to me, its like your paying £25/£30 for the hemet and £30 for the figure. Well i've got the helmet so i just want the figure, possibly with a blaster. but these just don't really come up in good condition, they are always complete. plus its always hard to tell from a photo just how white the figure is. 😢maybe i should sell the helmet and put that money towards a complete figure thinking
I actually have the reverse situation of you.
I bought a loose stormie because his limbs were awesome and the paint was fantastic on it. but the toy had no helmet and blaster. I ll have to hunt for a proper minty white helmet and appropriate blaster. But i have a funnyy feeling that ill end up buying another complete stormie to finish mine.
Here it is, I am very proud of that one since i got it at a very decent price.
....... images removed for quote by psybertech Smile........
He looks real nice, Bud.
But I brought this up a little while back where the cost of accessories is the killer when trying to complete figures.
From what I have seen, just a good condition helmet will run you $40-50 USD. The unique blaster will run you $30+ easily. So if you got him for say around $20 USD, in the end, it might run you close to $100 anyway especially if you have to pay shipping from two more sellers.

BUT - you could find a crappy condition Luke that is complete with original accessories for less I guess.

This figure in particular, was one I wanted for a long time since it is one that when I had as a kid, was lost to an explosion a few days after I got him, so something inside me really, REALLY wanted him again. Yeah, it was a parachute and an quarter stick firecracker crazy glued to his back. FUN? YES!!! but also a little heartbreak at the time.

Since I still really wanted him now, I have been watching for 4 months or so for a decent deal. Unfortunately, I missed on a few that would have saved me 20-25 USD, so I just said screw it and waited for a good, complete one from a seller I knew for a little under 100 USD with shipping and finally pulled the trigger.

It seems that $100 is the average for him complete, with original accessories.
I was/am so glad to have confirmed his helmet in another thread I posted in over the past week... I was a tad concerned, but now am totally satisfied.
He does seem to be one figure that consistently runs on the high side, but hey, its freakin Luke Skywalker from ANH!!!!! Stormie Smiley 

Anyway.... I am too new to the hobby to know what things were or should be. I am just learning what things are and I hate to say it, I have nothing to argue against the prices.
They are what they are for me.

One thing I have noticed is that if I watch an item with a BIN and it doesn't sell and gets relisted, then I re-watch it and it happens again and again, I normally will make a low ball offer and at least 50% of the time they accept. Not always the case, but sometimes it works.

Good luck on your quest! I am just starting the ESB line... perhaps I should go backwards to save money over time. Who knows. hehe

cheers, Bud!
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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2013 8:54 pm

Yes the sellers are extremely unscrupulous about the accessories. A lot of them break down the toys into their parts to resell the hoods, quicker, bows.... the ewoks are the worst offenders in this line for this.

I just burns me to see someone charge 20$ plus 7$ shipping for a stupid plastic bow.
And it makes you cringe when you are paying that much money for an accessory for an incomplete toy.

I guess it pays more to get a complete POTF toy right of the bat than one that is missing some parts cause its gonna cause you more to complete the figure in the end...

i have tried to do as much as i could for my collection and so far i can say that my collection has probably 80% of their original accessories with them... Smile


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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2013 10:17 pm

speaking of guns does anyone have a bigger clearer picture of the POTF luke stormie blaster? or a comparative pics of that blaster versus the other black blaster which a chart pointing out what to look for. Just looking at a flat picture does not reveal all the point you should be looking for..

id like a definitive guide to that POTF blaster....can anyone post this if they have done something such as this?



cheers!
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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 16, 2013 2:12 am

Grats on the luke Smile it looks to be in awesome condition. Which is really hard. I can't recall buying one without helm, but the gun is a pain, mostly because of the dark dark blue blaster which looks black but under light turn blue. Accessories for luke is really hard to get but I think you did a good jobb getting that white luke.
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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 16, 2013 2:32 am

@budspencer wrote:

I actually have the reverse situation of you.
I bought a loose stormie because his limbs were awesome and the paint was fantastic on it. but the toy had no helmet and blaster. I ll have to hunt for a proper minty white helmet and appropriate blaster. But i have a funnyy feeling that ill end up buying another complete stormie to finish mine.
Here it is, I am very proud of that one since i got it at a very decent price.


POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? IMG_0911


Wow, really nice figure there bud he looks minty white. But now i'm green with envy No  lol!
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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 16, 2013 2:51 am

I was curious, I kind of thought it was some really high sums for LS now days considering this thread. But I see complete ones sell for 60usd~, I payed almost 3 times more then that for one of mine. Acctually I think that the prices right now are pretty cheap and I don't really understand the complains.

Here in Sweden, one in bad condition often go over 90usd. Roughly calculated sek>usd. But sometimes an auction that goes really bad comes and it sell for like 20usd~.
Guess you could check tradera.com and keep watch because some auctions get little attention and go way under their value.
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PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 16, 2013 2:53 am

@walkie wrote:
Tip: If you need a POTF black blaster for the Luke Stormie, why not buy a cheaper Kez-Iban or Thall Joben figure?
great tip, thanks Stefan Very Happy 
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budspencer
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budspencer

Posts : 759
Join date : 2011-08-15

POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? Empty
PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 17, 2013 7:44 pm

@chris.75 wrote:
@budspencer wrote:

I actually have the reverse situation of you.
I bought a loose stormie because his limbs were awesome and the paint was fantastic on it. but the toy had no helmet and blaster. I ll have to hunt for a proper minty white helmet and appropriate blaster. But i have a funnyy feeling that ill end up buying another complete stormie to finish mine.
Here it is, I am very proud of that one since i got it at a very decent price.


POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? IMG_0911



Wow, really nice figure there bud he looks minty white. But now i'm green with envy No  lol!
Yes even if it seems kinda dumb to buy this figure without his accessories at the time i bought him i just could not let it pass. I had been sort of hunting for him, he was not real high on my priority list but i knew id have to get one eventually. I had been sorta looking on ebay and all i could see was rosey limbs or yellow limbs or white limbs and heads with heavy paint rubs or AFA figures that cost way too much... but When i saw this one i jumped on it. It was nice all around with a nice price. I don't regret the purchase one bit.

If i could find a Luke like this, i am sure i can find a helmet and a blaster somewhere. Just a matter of time and patience and a whole lot of luck.
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Rawlin
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Rawlin

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Location : Sweden

POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? Empty
PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 17, 2013 7:54 pm

Its all part of the game Smile that is acctually what I appreciate most in this hobby. Putting all the pieces together, even if it takes years its still just more satisfieing when completing it. I'm more proud of the stuff I had a hard time with then those I just bought complete.
Unless its a figure I had to try hard to get.

Good luck getting the accessories Smile
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POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? Empty
PostSubject: Re: POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused?   POTF original Kenner toys. Are the collectors being abused? I_icon_minitime

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