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  The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.

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aussiejames
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 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 12, 2013 8:55 am

Yoda was found with different accessories on Kenner : "41D (Light Green, Orange Snake), 41D (Bright Green, Orange Snake), 41D (Bright Green, Brown Snake) & 41D (Dark Green, Brown Snake)"
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Josh
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PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 12, 2013 9:40 am

Yeah I couldn't be fucked digging out the Kellerman. Wasn't sure when the transition was. Thought it may have been a little later but obviously not Smile
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wbobafett
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PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 12, 2013 12:54 pm

I agree so with AJ. There is lots of different variants known on one cardback. To get to the bottom of this it needs way more I am afraid Sad


Anyway...I noticed sth. I am sorry if this is totally BS  Embarassed ...I am really not very much familiar with MOCs and the way they are produced!

I watched this vid over and over again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFEX1jvSFDo


Looks like the sealing process is like this:

 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Palito28

First up there is kind of a "steel mold". In the shape of the bubble. It seems like the "form" can be swapped with others (see arrow). It is more kind of an inserted "form" that has IMO exactly the shape of the double stem blister that will be "put" into it!....right??

 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Palito29
Then the bubble with figure is put inside...

 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Palito30
Then the cradback is layed on top.....

 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Palito31
Then it is pushed into kind of a heat sealing machine (pressure and heat)


Anyway....important to me is the first picture in that progress!
If there is "forms" for each bubbles would mean: The bubble is matching exactly in that form!
I have a seen a few now of the questionable cards where the figure is bigger then the bubble! Wouldn't the exact matching "form" prevent this?? How is it possible to lay the bubble with figure inside this "form" if the figure is actually taller??

Just a note....sth I spotted and thought it might be of interest??

Wolff
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Kenner76
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 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 12, 2013 4:54 pm

This is a major bummer and very bad news for the vintage collecting community.... True or not, I think the damage has been done. Sad
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Josh
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PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 12, 2013 6:05 pm

Glad someone has broken this on RS. I think the more people who get involved to get to the bottom of this, the better. If anything, some more old info and rumours may come up. Just need the right person to see it.
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Josh
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PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 12, 2013 6:25 pm

"Doing a bit of digging on RS

From a 2010 thread discussing unused Palitoy cardbacks : http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1045737-2/

Quote:
I purchased 4 or 5 of the Unused Palitoy backers from ToyToni at the Atlantique City Show. I was under the impression(maybe he told me?) they came from the same source as all of his minty carded stuff. I then later bought some more from him through the mail. I think I ended up with 8 different with 3-5 doubles and maybe a triple. Which ones were they? I do not remember. One day, I will fire up the old computer that has some pics on it and we will see which ones I had. He told me he had more of them, but I stopped buying them because they were $100 a piece and I felt they weren't actually worth that at the time. Proof cards were on a downswing at the time. I contacted him a year or 2 later and he said he had no more. Every year or 2, I shoot him another email making sure he didn't find more. I sold all the doubles to friends and at shows, but held on to one of each. Then got bored with them, got them graded, and sold them on ebay. Wish I had more info for ya.
Thanks,
Andy"

So now it comes back around to Toni did have some unused card backs. Something he said he never has had :/
I think this has definitely been happening folks. You would have to be a fucken muppet if you aren't thinking that by now given all the evidence that is coming out.
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Josh
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 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 12, 2013 7:38 pm

 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Page_110

 lol! 

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wbobafett
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PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 13, 2013 7:49 am

Okay now I wasted my time browsing for Pal ESB Bossks...ebay, google and classifieds...so here is what I have found.


First of all I spotted three different blisters on those:
1. Single stem large
2. Single stem small
3. Double stem

BOSSK


ESB Palitoy 45B back
- MIHK (possible related no Coo): 5x (4x large, 1x small single stem)
- Small HK (possible related no Coo): 3x (2x small, 1x large single stem)
- Large HK: 0x
- No Coo Scar (PBP figure): 2x (2x small)

ESB Palitoy 45 GERMAN back:
- MIHK (possible related no Coo): 0x
- Small HK (possible related no Coo): 4x (1x small, 1x big, 2x double stem)
- Large HK: 0x
- No Coo Scar (PBP figure): 3x (3x small single stem)

ROTJ Palitoy 45C back
- MIHK (possible related no Coo) 1x (large blister, no stem)


And now what???  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing


Last edited by wbobafett on Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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wbobafett
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 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 13, 2013 7:58 am

And I spotted more of those strange cirlced dots (imprints) on perfect shaped German cards. Any ideas??

 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 14a10a10
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aussiejames
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 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 13, 2013 8:20 am

3+ years ago Toni was getting "$100 a piece for unused cardbacks"
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Starwizz
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 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 13, 2013 12:50 pm

Who knows how it will go or end but it is already effecting the SW community.
I am not going to quote anybody, but some good points are already made on site's
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Josh
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 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 13, 2013 7:10 pm

We have a new best post from the SWFUK thread.

 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Hknij5mz8

 lol! 
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Josh
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PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 13, 2013 7:12 pm

@Olisuds wrote:
Comparison of his 10 most abundant carded figures against the 10 most recent loose figures he has purchased (last 16 days):

Carded:

Hoth Stormtrooper x
C3PO x
Walrusman
Luke Bespin
Stormtrooper x
Han Solo
Gamorrean Guard
Logray x
Boba Fett
Lobot x

Loose:

Hoth Stormtrooper x
2-1B
FX-7
Luke Farmboy Brown hair
Stormtrooper x
Logray x
Bossk
Rebel Commander
Lobot x
C3PO x


Was this list meant to have numbers associated with it, Oli?
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 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 13, 2013 11:48 pm

@Josh wrote:
We have a new best post from the SWFUK thread.

 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Hknij5mz8

 lol! 

Yep, im still stuck on the intermission.
 bounce bounce bounce bounce 
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BruceW
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 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 14, 2013 2:25 am

First off, I have it on good authority that Joiner is NOT to be trusted.

Secondly, on page 20 of the SWFUK thread Joiner states in his reply to Toni:

"...until Arthur found this haul I had only ever found two used ESB backing cards ever in UK or Europe and that was with me travaling all around Europe and as I had many German frineds that also could not find any of these cards out there ether when ever I traveled to Germany back then and over the last 25 years I have never found any in situe at a flee market or in a collctors store in Germany so I came to
the conclushion back then they were ether very few ever released in Germay or that they were never Relesaed at all in Germany and they were regected card that were left somewere in a storage place .

so I only ever found in my time collcting 2 ESB cards and they both luckley had UK price labels on them one was a 4 lom the other I think if memrey serves a bespin guard figure so I found two total in 25 to 30 years of world travel , this was till Arthur told me about what he had found , and being the collator when he told me what was there I keept that info to my self and this stuff was beond rare it was amazing stuff , I felt these cards were ether unrelased cards or very very limated release cards that at one time was rejecrted and worth a lot of money indeed for what they are rare cards and un carded cards very cool indeed ...

over the 25 years you are the only one that i saw selling figures that cards was on the list and the German cards have not turned up in any quwantrys anywhere apart from you , tell me please if I an wrong , can any one else clarify this for me i have been out the look fro 10 years ?"  


Only two card backs in all that time?  Really?

Several European collectors have come forward in that thread saying they either remember (as children) having seen, bought, or still have German issued MOCs or card backs in their collections.  

Now Joiner has every one running around like crazy people, examining German MOC bubbles for the slightest imperfection. He's probably laughing his ass off right now.

I really wonder what other "stories" Joiner has for us? Who, or what, is next on his list?  

"Palitoy card backs are made of people! They're PEOPLE!"
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 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 14, 2013 3:58 am

lol! 

 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 271225_ch
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 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 14, 2013 5:26 am

Batman wrote:
I did a simple experiment to see if i could seal part of a blister to a german cardback using materials that were available in the early 90's and this is the result  The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 German45_zpsd55e9831 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 German45blister_zpsea0ee00b

Joe O wrote:
Glad you posted this Batman and yes I do believe that your test was conclusive proof that you can seal bubbles to cards with minimal effort.

If it's not clear to those looking a the pictures, the side of that original bubble was sealed by Batman to the blue area behind the figure and then the rest of the bubble was cut away so you can see how just well the plastic had attached to the card.

In my opinion if you had original bubbles and cards, sealing them together would be pretty easy. I can assure you guys that Batman's test was not carried out using thousands of pounds worth of tooling and machinery either..


I reckon you should start flogging them cards to Jo.Y ASAP  lol! 
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Tiefighterboy
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 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 14, 2013 12:23 pm

@Josh wrote:
We have a new best post from the SWFUK thread.

 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Hknij5mz8

 lol! 

and to think....I thought nobody noticed. Laughing 
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 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 14, 2013 5:25 pm

@Josh wrote:
@Olisuds wrote:
Comparison of his 10 most abundant carded figures against the 10 most recent loose figures he has purchased (last 16 days):

Carded:

Hoth Stormtrooper x
C3PO x
Walrusman
Luke Bespin
Stormtrooper x
Han Solo
Gamorrean Guard
Logray x
Boba Fett
Lobot x

Loose:

Hoth Stormtrooper x
2-1B
FX-7
Luke Farmboy Brown hair
Stormtrooper x
Logray x
Bossk
Rebel Commander
Lobot x
C3PO x


Was this list meant to have numbers associated with it, Oli?

Not really, it was just a comparison of the most common carded figures he sold v the loose figures he bought. The loose figures were only across a 16 day period so numbers were relatively low. However 2 figures were purchased in quantities of 2. One was 2-1B (common Palitoy figure) and no prize for guessing what the other one was.

Anyone? Smile
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 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 14, 2013 5:28 pm

If there is anyone who has purchased a MOC from Toni in the last 30 days can you please send me close up macro pictures of the figure?
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PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 14, 2013 6:24 pm

This post from you is the final nail in the coffin as far as I am concerned.

"
I don't expect he will come forward. He's always been a man of few words. I imagine he's hiding the evidence right now and trying to cover things up. His buying account is now private with none of the feedback showing.

He has also changed his eBay ID 30 times! Not the behaviour of a man with nothing to hide."
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 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 14, 2013 10:12 pm

I really wanted to see this not be true, but Toni himself if actually what makes me think otherwise.

I've been slandered a couple of times over the years and I can tell you without a doubt I've defended myself vigorously. I'd never let a false story hurt my reputation.

Toni could fix this but, in my opinion, he is not putting anything out there that could have a legal ramification.

I really wish he'd chime in.

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PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 15, 2013 8:45 am

i started to read all of that over on SWFUK but got a headache from it all. might go back and read the rest of it in a little while. but after reading what i have, i understand why now i turned to collecting oddball stuff when i did. its getting to the point you dont know what is legit or not these days. and as far as buying anything online, i will always buy from someone who i know i can trust that wil be upfront about the items im looking into. if im not 1000% sue, i WILL ask someone who i know does know if its legit or not. ive made that rookie noobie mistake too many times when i first started to not do that again.

as far as someone coming forward to chime in on what they are or arent doing, i seriously doubt that most would. if you dont have anything to hide from anyone, why would you run and hide about it. why change your id 30 times, hide your feedback so no one will be able to see what your score is? that to me is saying they have something to hide since they been called out. same thing as having multiple ids on ebay. why have 2-3 if not more ids on ebay if your not hiding something. i know some like to keep their buying and selling accounts seperate, but for what reason? dont you think someone will catch it sooner or later? one day you buy something from X, and then 2-3 weeks later sell something to the same person, but with a different id. really? come on.,
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 The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 15, 2013 9:14 am

Hi Chris, who is that clown in your avatar mate, every time i see it i try to think where ive seen him, but i cant pin point it  unsure is he from a movie, can anybody help ?
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PostSubject: Re: The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion.    The General Mills 45 back & Palitoy "non factory sealed" discussion. - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 15, 2013 9:16 am

That's Chris isn't it? lol! 
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