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 Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.

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Joseph_Y
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PostSubject: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 26, 2013 1:16 pm

Since John, asked us to continue this conversation here as opposed to in my WTB thread in the appropriate section, I'm moving this shit up here. Now, some unknown calling himself "Yak" is trying to say that I'm "taking advantage" of the community rather than speculating, in my attempts to buy some TT MOC figures on the cheap.

Here's what his last post was in my WTB thread:
@Yak wrote:
@DarthBerizing wrote:
....Joe is speculating (like people do with Gold and Pork Bellies), and people can do as they wish

I couldn't agree more, but that’s not what worries me. Giving it a spin of - I'm trying to help you out –
@Joseph_Y wrote:
....Due to the risk involved I'm paying about 25 to 35%  of what they sold for as original sealed, but you can recoup some of your money, ...
-is not market speculation. That’s taking advantage of the situation, no?

Yea ok, bankers do that too, plus it’s legal, but in both cases I feel it’s worth voicing an opinion of disproval.

Besides in a finite market like collecting Star Wars it easily has the potential to destroy it.

Like ‘Joe’ said, he has “..bills to pay..” and there really needs to be a debate about people who, like TT are trying to make their living out of the hobby. They are not really a part of the community because they do not want to help anyone here but themselves.

"yak" claims that I'm not part of the community, because I partially subsidize my toy collecting fund using money made selling stuff that I buy in collections, or if I see a BIN on Ebay that's insanely low, etc, etc.

How many other collectors here and on other forums do the exact same thing..... I'd hazard to guess at least half.  MY post about the TT figures was just as much about seeing how many people believed JJ as it was making a few dollars on those that do.

As far as being part of the community....lets see my credentials... I've done panels in the collector track at the past 4 US SW Celebrations, at the first CE, and at LFL sponsored conventions in Mexico City, not to mention one at a PSWCA (Penn. SW collectors association) summer social. Also written articles for the SWCA, TIG, and currently am building(with help from friends) what will be the largest bootleg resource site ever to exist. www.theouterrealmsw.com  Nope, not part of the community at all..... Rolling Eyes  Lesser fanfare things I do on a regular basis, include answering countless questions about value and authenticity of bootlegs with collectors and dealers alike, helping friends find bootlegs that they need (when I can) and often at little to no profit to myself. I've also helped bring several scammers in the community to light over the years.
Other than troll my WTB post..... What the hell have you done Yak?

Cheers
Joe
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Starwizz
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 26, 2013 1:42 pm

Wondering when this would appear here.
Don't let people get to you, sooner or later everybody is gonna speculate. This is how it goes with hobby's. You make some, you loose some. In my opinion, people must ask themselves why did we give TT and friends a bail out!!

Maikel


Last edited by Starwizz on Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 26, 2013 1:43 pm

Tbh I don't understand the point and I've read it twice.

Joe you have done a lot for the community and continue to do so.  I would say more but I think your ego is big enough.  Very Happy 

Many collectors buy whole collections, cherry pick what they want, and sell the rest at a higher price.

I'd rather deal with a Joe than an out and out dealer who is only in it for the £s like Brianstoys etc.
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Joseph_Y
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 26, 2013 2:04 pm

cc4rhu wrote:
Tbh I don't understand the point and I've read it twice.

Joe you have done a lot for the community and continue to do so.  I would say more but I think your ego is big enough.  Very Happy 

Many collectors buy whole collections, cherry pick what they want, and sell the rest at a higher price.

I'd rather deal with a Joe than an out and out dealer who is only in it for the £s like Brianstoys etc.

My ego's nowhere near as big as some people think it is.  :cool laugh:  And I don't like even having to mention stuff I've done in the hobby(other than trying to hype the in progress bootleg site). I'm just here to add cool stuff to my collection, learn about stuff I don't own or collect, but think is cool, and shoot the shit with my friends.
Just the insinuation that I'm not part of the community is something I just couldn't let stand. Point is, and I know that you get it, is that even if I do make a few $ on a deal, chances are pretty strong that that money is going right back into another SW (or silver age comic) purchase.

Cheers
Joe
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Thundershot
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 26, 2013 2:08 pm

As long as every things done in a moral & ethical way I see nothing wrong with making an honest profit.




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Joseph_Y
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 26, 2013 2:20 pm

@Thundershot wrote:
As long as every things done in a moral & ethical way I see nothing wrong with making an honest profit.





I have NO intention of offering any of the TT pieces that I've bought for sale until there is a devised way from the grading companies to tell the real from the fake, and they are recased accordingly. My ONLY real flaw as a seller, which is well documented and admitted is the occasional slow shipping time.

Cheers
J
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ourchickenshack
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 26, 2013 2:48 pm

Dammit Joe - will you please stop forcing these poor collectors to sell you their toys at gun point  Wink 

Your such a evil bastard  lol! 

Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. Determ10

Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. The_em10

not sure why anyone would be bothered by your offer Joe or not get the fact that you were calling folks out on the whole TT scandal  :scratch: 

Your a huge contributor to the hobby and I don't feel that you are doing anything wrong  Cool 

Sell Joe all your toys or the Mutt gets it ...
Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. Gun-to10
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 26, 2013 3:02 pm

Joe, your contribution to the community is quite clear. So I am not sure why Yak was wondering about that part

About the speculation part:

My opnion: IF the community will be able to provide definite proof that Toni MOCs are customs made from original parts, these MOCs will not be worthless overnight. We are still talking about a combination of original vintage cardbacks, bubbles and figures. I can imagine there will be a market for them even if they turn out not to be factory sealed. I won't be surprised when in that case the "TOCs" will retain 25-35% of their current value, which is basically the price you are willing to buy them at right now.  

Not an expert on speculation, but I thought there should be some risk involved for the speculator. However to me it seems that collectors deciding to sell of their MOCs take the biggest risk. In case the TOCs appear to be genuine MOCs, the collectors loose 65-75% (and you gain 65-75% upon selling). On the other hand, if these MOCs turn out to be customs, they gain nothing by selling them off to you right now. That is unless the values of TOCs drops below 25% of their current value, which I doubt. But in that case, you will loose out off course.  

There is nothing unethical about offering MOC collectors to buy their stuff. It is all part of the game. And everybody is entitled to make a profit.
Nobody is forced to sell of their stuff.


Cheers
Marco


Last edited by Dr Dengar on Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 26, 2013 3:10 pm

Can't understand what the probablem is at all, you made an offer, people can either accept or tell you to fuck off! It's that simple, it's not like you've got a gun in there mouths.... you haven't got a gun in there mouths right  Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 26, 2013 3:18 pm

Like it was said already Joe don't let it get to you I am pretty sure we have all bought large amounts and sold what we didn't want hell I did it just a while ago with my blue snag. As far as you not contributing to the forum I wonder what forum he's looking at as it sure isn't this one. For me I would sooner buy from you guy's first before I go to like ebay etc as I know and trust you all here like James for example I will check his Ebay site then I will buy from him privately so ebay doesn't charge him fees for selling. I would do that with anyone here who has an ebay store.

But again my friend don't let it get to you o.k. Yak is proberly one of those types that would expect a person to sell for less then they bought for as he is cheap. and doesn't realise the real value of the items.
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 26, 2013 3:50 pm

@arohk wrote:
Like it was said already Joe don't let it get to you I am pretty sure we have all bought large amounts and sold what we didn't want hell I did it just a while ago with my blue snag. As far as you not contributing to the forum I wonder what forum he's looking at as it sure isn't this one. For me I would sooner buy from you guy's first before I go to like ebay etc as I know and trust you all here like James for example I will check his Ebay site then I will buy from him privately so ebay doesn't charge him fees for selling. I would do that with anyone here who has an ebay store.

But again my friend don't let it get to you o.k. Yak is proberly one of those types that would expect a person to sell for less then they bought for as he is cheap. and doesn't realise the real value of the items.

Thanks Larry  Very Happy   As you and many of my other friends here at TIG know - the money I save in Ebay fees is passed on to you guys (and usually even cheaper  Wink )

There seems to be a small group of collectors out there that believe just because they collect Star Wars people that are selling items owe them something and they always want things for a fraction of the price they would normally sell for . If I don't know someone then they have not earned that discount and I don't feel badly at all selling something at a decent profit . Friends , just as in real life , get the better deals because they have earned that friend discount .

It's life , it's how the real world works and its just how it is  Very Happy 

I never try to promote my sells here at TIG - my friends here already know that all they have to do is ask me for something and I will do anything I can to help them out  cheers 

Unfortunately society has gotten to the point where its the norm to blame everyone else for our own stupidity ... too many people these days won't take responsibility for their own ignorance and they never attempt to educate themselves  No 


BTW - I am putting this offer out there :

I have heard that some Blue Snaggletooth and Yak Face figures were made from radioactive plastic by Tony in the mid 90's  affraid 

In a effort to save the community I am offering 2 shiny quarters , yes that's right , a whopping 50 cents for all of them you want to unload on me  What a Face 

do it now or the pussy gets it ...
Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. Jfjfhf10
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 26, 2013 3:57 pm

If people want to sell their TT cards to Joe, the offer is there, if not, no one is being forced, I don't see a problem  unsure


Last edited by Nico on Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 26, 2013 4:09 pm

like Joe did mention,  he has more than some trolls on his ass   :cool laugh: 
and nobody is still wondering,that some people did had free jail cards,,im off
don with this.
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 26, 2013 4:35 pm

@Starwizz wrote:
like Joe did mention,  he has more than some trolls on his ass   :cool laugh: 
and nobody is still wondering,that some people did had free jail cards,,im off
don with this.

I've had my share of trolls to be certain.Over the years I've learned to laugh them off like I for the most part am doing with this one. The only point that annoyed me was his claim that I or anyone that sells for a profit isn't part of the community. Last time I checked the community wasn't a communist society, and a little profit wasn't frowned on.   I just wanted to check the general consensus about if people thought my offer to buy the TT figs was in bad taste/sleazy etc. I'm certainly no saint, but the trolls are getting silly.


Cheers and thanks
Joe
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 26, 2013 5:51 pm

Your going to lose your good noodle stars to get yourself back on RS. Laughing 
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 26, 2013 5:53 pm

Seems like Yak's original post is a little lost. I think he was trying to get a point across about the sensitivity of those who have seemingly lost out in a big way financially on these to then get an offer of x amount by someone who believes these are most likely legit and is willing to put his money where his mouth is.

From there it just turned into banter and sledging.

I personally don't have an issue with the offer and it seems to give those who are convinced that the items are fake an opportunity to recoup with someone willing to take what looks like a big risk.

i do however understand that someone could take it the wrong way and feel it's a bit "too soon" whilst information is being sought.

Joe's taking the risks here and people can consider the offer or ignore it.Bit of a mountain out of a mole hill. Could have had less name calling and baiting in the thread but I'm one of those sensitive posters who doesn't really like that stuff so that's just my personal issues.
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 26, 2013 6:29 pm

@Tiefighterboy wrote:
Your going to lose your good noodle stars to get yourself back on RS. Laughing 

I think it would require a bit more ass kissing than I'd ever be willing to do for ANYTHING, to get back onto RS. I'm MORE than willing to have a dialogue/discussion with Phil if he were open to it. I'd gladly even admit parts where I stepped over some lines, apologize for some of the derogatory statements. BUT it wasn't all me in that situation, and I don't think Phil would ever own his part(let alone apologize for it) in that escalating to the level that it's sitting at right now. If I'm wrong, I'd be amazed...happy, but amazed. So,for now, I'll own my banishment, and have fun with the rest of the hobby and forums.

Cheers
Joe



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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 26, 2013 7:10 pm

speculate
ˈspɛkjʊleɪt/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: speculating
1.
form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence.
"my colleagues speculate about my private life"
synonyms: conjecture, theorize, form theories, hypothesize, make suppositions, postulate, guess, make guesses, surmise; More
2.
invest in stocks, property, or other ventures in the hope of gain but with the risk of loss.
"he didn't look as though he had the money to speculate in shares"
synonyms: gamble, take a risk/chance, venture, take a venture, wager; More


Joe's speculating, someone jumping on his WTB thread & offering $100 is taking advantage  Razz 
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 27, 2013 12:17 am

I think 70% of the money in the hobby is just passed around. I sell to buy and have very little money enter the hobby. A lot of people flip collections, sell when the market trends high, etc.. Personally I don't care. I know I've paid premiums to others who sold me stuff I needed and vice versa. It's part of the hobby.

Specific to Joe - It's just an offer that's out there. Nobody has to take it. People selling it are speculating the market will plummet the TT stuff to cardback+loose figure value, making $50 a nice sale price. Joe is hoping the market maintains some value or TT is exonerated. Regardless, it's an offer and not a command. So to me it's a non issue.

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Grant
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 27, 2013 8:50 am

Joe I don't see that you did anything wrong. Perhaps Yak ended up with some of the Toni cards and feels pi$$ed off, I don't know for sure. Or perhaps he doesn't know your posting style well enough to realise that you were being realistic but without the sugar coating. Just my 2 pence worth.

With regards to buying and selling, Iv funded my entire collection through buying and selling and I'm still in profit. I don't have one single £1 of my own tied up. I still consider myself a collector and worthy enough. As long as you him or I go about things ethically then what's the harm in it. Heck if it wasn't for buying and selling I'd never have been able to afford my own collection, again just my 2 pence worth.

All the best,

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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 28, 2013 8:16 pm

cc4rhu wrote:


Joe you have done a lot for the community and continue to do so.  I would say more but I think your ego is big enough.  Very Happy 


lol

I know Joe's offer might be low as taking a gamble. But it could pay off and if people dont want to sell for 70 percent less than they paid, no one is forcing them to.
Im pretty sure Joe has not been inundated with people begging to get rid of their TT's yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 28, 2013 9:40 pm

@Grant wrote:
Joe I don't see that you did anything wrong. Perhaps Yak ended up with some of the Toni cards and feels pi$$ed off, I don't know for sure. Or perhaps he doesn't know your posting style well enough to realise that you were being realistic but without the sugar coating. Just my 2 pence worth.

With regards to buying and selling, Iv funded my entire collection through buying and selling and I'm still in profit. I don't have one single £1 of my own tied up. I still consider myself a collector and worthy enough. As long as you him or I go about things ethically then what's the harm in it. Heck if it wasn't for buying and selling I'd never have been able to afford my own collection, again just my 2 pence worth.

All the best,

Grant. :emperor:

Exactly Grant, There was a time when I didn't have to buy and sell to afford my collection, but with my old shop burning down(income went down to about 1/3 what it previously was) mixed with the crap economy, I've had to get a bit more resourceful in terms of buying and selling, as well as having to fine tune my collecting habits, in order to stay in the game. So if someone NOT in my shoes is offended that I have to flip stuff here and there in order to continue building my collection,that's their problem not mine. I'd never look down on someone that was flipping stuff to help their collection along, unless their prices were over the top, which is a whole different story.
But they wouldn't sell much either.....lol

I definitely appreciate the feedback, because with the way that "Yak" tried to lay into me I was wondering if my wording in my WTB was too gruff or seemed uncaring about the plight of those that are taking a hit on these. Of course I find it funny that he hasn't peeped a word since this thread started. I guess his whole game was to see if he could get me riled up....Yeah, not so much. As said, I've bought a few from folks that just wanted out from under them. Not a flood of them, but enough that if real will surely put some much needed new pieces into the bootleg collection.

Cheers
Joe
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 28, 2013 9:49 pm

To me it just seemed like twat Yak was just trying to bring abit of RS negativity to the Gentlemens Club  Angry SW 
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PostSubject: Re: Speculating or taking advantage; You decide.   Speculating or taking advantage; You decide. I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 29, 2013 5:27 pm

Hey JoeY,

I am a kind of member on the forums who almost never post a word(now a days),and i still feeling i am part of the community just because I read every interesting threat on the forums (every day),still learning things (every day)  and i still in touch very often with my friends here.I am also doing what i think , would be an useful "tool" for loose collectors BUT never near on what you already have done for the comunity.Since i can remember, you have done more for this hobby than many many of us have done or will do.I think, we ALL are lucky enough to have your knowledge over here.

I , personality ,started to love bootlegs by seeing your posts and your collection.I guess this words are not needed,specially coming from a guy like me , but i want to let you know that you have all my support.

About your WTB thread, what to say didn't said before…buying and selling for building up collections or rise some funds is, what MANY of us have done and will do Wink.I don't think your are taking advantage over the affected collectors, in this early stage of the overall situation ,the risk is on both sides IMO.However i am so sorry what happened to many on the collectors community( and to some of my good friends) and i hope the best resolution on the TT issue

I hope this post help you a bit on keep doing such a great job for the collectors community.

All the best,
Javi
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