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 Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?

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wbobafett
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Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 27, 2014 1:29 pm

@ChrisGeorgoulias wrote:
In this case I think it's more convoluted to try prove that it is fake rather than admitting that it's real.  You just can't remove that much COO lettering right on the area where the paint is the focal point of the figure and it crosses the crease in the ankle.  Then repaint it, wear it down, and then sell it for a regular figure price.  The over-spray look like it would if it sprayed underneath the paint mask at the factory.  You'd see evidence of sanding even if it was painted over.

Anyway, with no clear connection to a Kenner source you would just have to believe this one.  Not that I have a horse in this race, I just think sometimes you can look at something and feel it's right.

From the photos I've seen here I just don't think it looks repainted and/or that any lettering has been removed.

Send it in to CIB and see what Tom says.  Once it's in a case nobody cares about the provenance.

-chris

Hey chris, have you seen those prune face figures were the eye patch was removed (a Pruny with two eyes and correct creases to the face)?? Just saying: removing the coo on a Blue Snag and having the "original" creases is a most easiest job...not every one uses 2m² sand paper for that...I would not not even use "sand paper" at all, tghere is much better ways!

All I am saying is: It is in fact easy to remove that coo smooth with intact deatils....even more if its overpainted!!! (because you cannot see the plastic surface.

Anyway....I am on the fence about this...to me it looks clearly fake and I have to live with you and others having a different opinion! All I am saying is: It is easy to fake such a figure and make good pictures. I am sure an expert holding it in hand will spot it if looking close enough...though...



I would also be curious about Toms opinion having it in hand....so lets wait and see!
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wbobafett
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Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 27, 2014 1:38 pm

I am trying it further....just for fun! Very Happy

This is the so called FS Snag compared to the two COOs known:

Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Khnw8k10

1. See the "break" in the crease line where the former "G" was....is that normal?? I guess not! First shots have a straight crase in this area.....am I wrong??

2. See the second horizontal crease (arrow with questionmark)....where does it come from?? It does not exist on production Blue Snags!!!!

So anyone with a true FS Blue Snag please tell me I am wrong!

Anyone???
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The_Dark_Artist
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Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 27, 2014 1:44 pm

I agree, let's wait and see what Tom says. I am also on the fence about the coo/date being removed, but I do feel strongly it was re-painted (the boots). If this is the case, and I know we have to wait on a final verdict, but if it is indeed a first shot and it was re-painted, what does that do to value? I guess that can be another topic of discussion later..... but if it was re-painted I think the value would decrease a lot.... If the piece had it's coo/date sanded down/removed, I think it should be destroyed.
-Steve
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The_Dark_Artist
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PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 27, 2014 1:47 pm

Wolff, that second horizontal crease (arrow with question mark).... was a concern of mine also.....
-Steve
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wbobafett
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PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 27, 2014 1:57 pm

Steve you own one! Does yours have the crease (Second horizontal) or not??

I assume not reading your post, but want to be sure! Can you post up a COO-area pic of yours??
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The_Dark_Artist
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PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 27, 2014 2:18 pm

Give me 20 minutes. Just took some good, close ups : )
-Steve
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The_Dark_Artist
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PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 27, 2014 2:41 pm

Notes: Mine does NOT have the second horizontal line as seen in the one in question. The one in question is not the toe bump version, so it should match mine. Mine does not have the vertical choppy/crooked lines like the one in question, mine are much straighter. The paint on mine, where it flaked off, is obvious, nothing is under, except the blue plastic. The one in question seems to have multiple layers of paint. The hand paint on mine is much lighter, and the one in question has darker hands, like it was production painted.
In my opinion, NOW, I believe the coo was removed on a production Blue Snag AND it also had it's boots repainted. This is my honest opinion when comparing it to mine. If indeed this is the case, this piece should be destroyed. But only after Tom (CIB), or Steve (UKG) states the same conclusion. If I am wrong, then I am wrong, but I would be a bit shocked if I was after the obvious comparison in front of you : )
All my best, -Steve

Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Bs110

Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Bs210

Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Bs310


Last edited by The_Dark_Artist on Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : bad spelling : ))
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The_Dark_Artist
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PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 28, 2014 11:46 am

Interestingly enough this one (which I'm sure many of you have seen on Ebay, before it was removed)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Star-Wars-BLUE-SNAGGLETOOTH-FIRST-SHOT-PROTOTYPE-original-Kenner-SW-designer-/281293898934?pt=US_Action_Figures&hash=item417e6c44b6&nma=true&si=QYOZd4XVPOnaiu0%252B4qXwnHWyVog%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
has darker, production paint on the hands. The boot paint is not flaky either. BUT it does not have that second horizonal line on the back of the left boot either, like the one in question. The pleat lines are quite straight on the back of the boots too.
To make things even more interesting. The piece in question came from Ohio, home of Kenner. At least that's what the original Seller stated. I also found out the original price on the lot of quite a few figures including the Blue Snag in question, and it was extremely LOW.
Guys this is a VERY perplexing situation. Every time I think it's a fake, then other facts arise that seem to make it legit. I'm still leaning towards it being a fake... but I wouldn't be surprised now if it wasn't.
-Steve
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The_Dark_Artist
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PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed May 14, 2014 10:36 am

It's been awhile regarding this topic. Has anything come of this Frank?
I'm still very curious : )
-Steve
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frunkstar
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Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed May 14, 2014 3:07 pm

I won't know more till it goes in to UKG in a couple of month Steve, but will put the outcome on here when I hear.
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The_Dark_Artist
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PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed May 14, 2014 3:13 pm

Thanks for the reply Frank. I look forward to hearing the final outcome. : )
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PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 17, 2014 5:35 am

Hey guys, sorry its taken an age to come back regarding this subject, but its been to UKG & they were not willing to grade it as something did not sit right with them about it either, had a house move to deal with in the mean time so everything got delayed, but I sent it on to a friend in the states who is really up on snags & pre production stuff, as I really wanted to get the the bottom of this, turns out the bottom of this is how it turned out as our friend seems to have been serving hard time & has his ass drilled out affraid

oddly enough I never spotted this, nor die the guy who sent it on to me or the graders, not exactly the sort of thing you look for is it, but here are Gary's thoughts/observations regarding it along with some new photos of it along side a standard & PP snag for comparison.

Goodness only knows why someone would go to all the effort of doing such a convincing custom job & then let it be sold alongside some standard blue snags though, I think that part & who made it will forever be a mystery.

Thoughts from Gary -

1. The seam detailing on the boot that would contain the copyright stamp is not correct. It's too deep and there is an extra seam  that was added that the production and pre-production pieces don't have on the CR boot. I believe that the "maker" copied the detailing from the opposite boot (which should have that particular detail) onto the CR boot after altering it.

2. The paint on the 'altered' boot is slightly off. Damn close, but under the correct lighting it can be detected. This almost had me fooled as it's that close. And the 'maker' attempted to create age wear, however under magnification evidence of either sandpaper or a very very fine file can be seen.

3. The hand paint is consistent with a production piece (gray) vs. all know existing first shots (white/cream).

4. This piece has a round section of plastic melted out of the bottom of the torso (looks like he has an asshole). I believe this plastic was melted and used to clean up the area of the boot after the copyright was shaved or sanded away. Then the boot seam detailing was carved/melted into the altered area (however incorrectly). I'll send a picture in a separate e-mail of this snags ass in case you didn't see it (like anyone wants to see a Snaggletooth's asshole - that must be horrible in real life...just sayin')


He also said it was a very convincing job & could very easily have passed as legit, here are his exact words- "The alteration to the boot is pretty impressive and could easily have been mistaken for the real thing"

The evidence -

Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Unnamed_zps77e927bb
Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Photo_zpsec6c55b8
Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Photo1_zps9dbd6bb4
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olisuds
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Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 17, 2014 5:49 am

Well done Gary. True detective work. Amazing what a cavity search can find :-)
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Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 17, 2014 6:29 am

Damn someone tore that snag a new ass hole!!

Nice detective work btw.

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Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 17, 2014 7:00 am

It all started like this....

Shocked
popcorn
unsure
Shocked
Evil or Very Mad

and then in the end

:clap:

another repro off the streets....

Thanks for the update. Glad Gary found the drilled out area. The telling sign of a fake. I think that everyone would have agreed it was tampered with, if that would have been shown, early on in this thread. But it was well hidden. Either way, we have a verdict cheers -Steve
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The_Dark_Artist
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Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 17, 2014 7:03 am

Oh yea, and it should be destroyed or used to make a fun custom, IMO. If it gets back on the market, as it is now, this vicious cycle will start all over again...
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Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 17, 2014 7:31 am

Well I am skint at the mo with a huge & rare baggie lot to find funds for so I was going to actually list it for sale on ebay, but clearly stating it is a standard production figure which has been customised & altered to imitate a first shot.

Not a rich man so could do with getting a few pennies back ideally, hope this does not piss anyone off too much.
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The_Dark_Artist
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Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 17, 2014 8:36 am

My advice, and if you plan on selling it, take a razor blade and grind in the back of the leg where the coo and date go. It will show a visual sign. That way it will be a sure sign it was tampered with and never questioned as a first shot again Just my 2 cents.....
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Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 17, 2014 10:08 am

Taking a blade to the copyright leg would also confirm that the arse plastic was used. The torso plastic and limbs plastic are very different so it should show up easy under the paint.
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Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 01, 2014 11:58 am

Hi guys, I have listed this up for sale with full disclosure of what it is on ebay, I know this will not make everyone happy, but I feel it would really be a sin to destroy the figure as I am sure someone out there will love it for just what it is & should it come back up for sale as the genuine article, this information is readily available along with detailed photos of it for cross checking.


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Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 01, 2014 7:04 pm

Good luck with your sale Frank.
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frunkstar
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Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 16, 2014 5:17 pm

Mod edit: I'm afraid we can't promote non forum sales Frank.

Cheers

Steve


Lapse in concentration on my part sorry guys. :I am stupid:
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PostSubject: Re: Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys?   Blue Snag with no coo or date - ideas guys? - Page 2 I_icon_minitime

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